Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 84

[AKM sama]

Ya know, I just deleted the whole verse responsible for DBS hiatus, the one that took its time slot ovo

was it for a good reason?

Is the bolded part not a good enough reason for ya?

 

[Ovrhide]

i want to give extra credit

 

[AKM sama]

The whole fight was about Beerus testing Goku's limits constantly and Goku breaking through time and again. Even when they were fighting on Earth and Beerus beat SSG to a pulp, Goku came back stronger and continued the fight. When they went into the stratosphere and Goku was about to lose the beam struggle, he came back even stronger to match Beerus's power. When Beerus nullified Goku's energy and turned him back to base, Goku shouldn't have anything left. But he broke through his limits again and came back with an even greater power. And lastly when his power drained again and Beerus added insult to injury, Goku broke through his limits again in his base form.

You can't call it a rage boost when there is no rage involved. Like there's not a single moment in their fight where Goku is literally enraged. Because there wasn't anything to rage about.

Gohan was enraged against Raditz and Cell, clearly. Goku was against Freeza, Vegeta against Beerus. None of your examples are related to Goku's situation. Beerus asking him about his limits and Goku replying "Not yet, shut up" and then later respectfully telling him that just because he's a god he can't decide people's limits, isn't a rage moment at all, nor a reason for Goku to rage out. Goku finding out that his family was killed by Zamasu, that was a rage moment and a proper reason to rage out. You can't call a random moment of power up a rage moment just because he was struggling and/or screaming.

And with all the given context and build up of the fight, it is pretty reasonable for it's culmination to be a proper limit-breaking moment for Goku. Also Goten and Gohan are clearly able to see the fight. Saiyans can see over very long distances, that's been estalished since the beginning of DB. And Vegeta was able to see just fine. Just look at their hand gestures and facial expressions, Goten is covering his eyes to block the sun and they are both looking upwards, none of these you do if you just have to "feel" a fight. They concentrate and generally close their eyes to feel a fight as shown in the Buu saga, they don't need to look above and block the sunlight. But they are not able to see Goku and Freeza.

Later, they make it a point that Goku had "evolved and surpassed" the level of gods in that fight. If his ssj1 was only as strong as the SSG like you're claiming to be, he would be at the same level as gods during that fight, he wouldn't have "surpassed" it. The fact that they say he surpassed the level of gods by "evolving" during that fight is clearly referring to the limit breaking of Goku. Rage boost =/= evolving.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

I certainly don't remember a point in that fight where Goku was ever legitimately angry, except the instant he turned Super Saiyan, several minutes after losing SSGod. I remember multiple points where, in base, after losing SSG, Goku was able to continue keeping up with Beerus, blocking hits, taking hits, and dishing out hits of his own, though he did eventually turn Super Saiyan. He wasn't raged out like he was against Freeza on Namek, or Black when he taunted Goku about killing ChiChi and Goten.

 

[Quibster]

Xeno Goku vs Palkia

Since he lost to Dialga, let's see how he'll do against Palkia!

 

[Ovrhide]

Xeno Goku vs Palkia
Since he lost to Dialga, let's see how he'll do against Palkia!

wouldnt it be the same outcome?

 

[MagicCloud6]

Bois and gals, should SSJB Gogeta and Ikari Broly's renders be updated to their FighterZ counterparts? I think the Broly one looks far better than the one we're currently using. Both Gogetas look good, so I'm ok with leaving the one we're currently using there or changing it.

i agree that the Ikari render should be changed, but I'm neutral on SSB Gogeta. Either works tbh

 

[AKM sama]

I prefer the current Gogeta. I'll change Ikari Broly. I also don't like SSJ Broly tho.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I prefer the current Gogeta. I'll change Ikari Broly. I also don't like SSJ Broly tho.

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca8...0.srMCDUmo81L25eIk_Dshwq_StLw5QxiuNqYAaJkT-Dw

I found this.

 

[ArgosaxDespair]

I like this one:

 

[Ryukama]

All I ******* want is for a Vegito and Gogeta fusion in Heroes. I mean we've got alternate timeline counterparts. And Heroes has already done every other stupid but cool fanservice thing imaginable. Just pls give me this.

 

[Dragomer]

Can't you already do that in DB Fusion ?

 

[ArgosaxDespair]

As a wise hermit once said "what isn't in Heroes bro lol". I want to see Gogeta (DBS) vs Vegetto (AU DBS) vs Xeno Vegetto/Gogeta SSJ4 at the same time, battle royale style

 

[PFM18]

I am confused I posted this super long response to AKM and it just didn't show up what the ****.

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Blame FANDOM. I've had that happen to me, too. It seems like if you linger too long while posting, and then hit "reply", it doesn't send anything through.

 

[PFM18]

I mean I kept coming back to it and did something else so from the time I started to the time I finished it was probably like 2 hours or something.

But it literally just did nothing, and poof it is all gone. Now I don't want to type it all up again.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I mean I kept coming back to it and did something else so from the time I started to the time I finished it was probably like 2 hours or something.
But it literally just did nothing, and poof it is all gone. Now I don't want to type it all up again.

same exact thing happened to me multiple times

 

[Paradisum]

As a wise hermit once said "what isn't in Heroes bro lol". I want to see Gogeta (DBS) vs Vegetto (AU DBS) vs Xeno Vegetto/Gogeta SSJ4 at the same time, battle royale style

all four fuse to fight farmer with a shotgun

 

[AwkguyDB]

As a wise hermit once said "what isn't in Heroes bro lol". I want to see Gogeta (DBS) vs Vegetto (AU DBS) vs Xeno Vegetto/Gogeta SSJ4 at the same time, battle royale style

all four fuse to fight farmer with a shotgun

That's such a mismatch. You'd have to give Super Xeno Gogito Mastered Ultra Instinct SSJ4Blue Evolution Oozaru with a Kaioken x∞^2 boost to compete with him blindfolded.

 

[JackJoyce]

I still don't get it why SSG was reintroduced in TOP when it was already absorbed by Goku in his base form

 

[AwkguyDB]

I still don't get it why SSG was reintroduced in TOP when it was already absorbed by Goku in his base form

So the idea was that the power was absorbed but Goku didn't have the god ki that came with the power, this is because the ritual is temporary and gives the user a limited amount of time with god ki. Goku, as well as Vegeta, would eventually learn how to harness the god ki for himself, giving him the ability to relearn, reuse and ugrade the form to higer degrees thanks to Whis' training.

 

[AwkguyDB]

SSJG in lame man's term just Base with God Ki

SSJGSSJ or SSJB is SSJ with God Ki

 

[Dragomer]

I still don't get it why SSG was reintroduced in TOP when it was already absorbed by Goku in his base form

The power of the ritual was absorbed, the form is independent from the ritual boost.

 

[JackJoyce]

That seems to make sense. Except SSGSS should've been orange

 

[ArgosaxDespair]

What are the accepted multipliers for SSJG and SSJB?

 

[AwkguyDB]

What are the accepted multipliers for SSJG and SSJB?

really there isn't any but if we go off of lowballs

SSJ3: 1

Base Vegito: 2

Super Vegito: 100

SSJG Goku: 200+ (Stated inital SSJG was a world he never felt before and later tapped into more power during his fight with Beerus.)

so at Bare minimum it's 200x SSJ3 but I have no clue what's the SSJ3 multipler thats excepted here.

SSJB is just 50x SSJG so it should be around 10,000x SSJ3

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

That makes no bloody sense because BOG SSG is different from post BOG SSG, plus base fusions are now > max power of the strongest fusee, which obviously includes god forms.

The lowballed SSG multiplier is 500x base, going off of the Broly movie, where great ape was above SSG (in tern making SSB 25,000 base).

 

[BlastX]

He's probably talking about Vegerot before Goku obtained SSG

 

[Dragomer]

That makes no bloody sense because BOG SSG is different from post BOG SSG, plus base fusions are now > max power of the strongest fusee, which obviously includes god forms.
The lowballed SSG multiplier is 500x base, going off of the Broly movie, where great ape was above SSG (in tern making SSB 25,000 base).

Great Ape was above SSJG when accouting for Broly getting stronger as he went on, it kinda mess up the calculation IMO.

 

[AwkguyDB]

He's probably talking about Vegerot before Goku obtained SSG

I am

 

[AwkguyDB]

That makes no bloody sense because BOG SSG is different from post BOG SSG, plus base fusions are now > max power of the strongest fusee, which obviously includes god forms.
The lowballed SSG multiplier is 500x base, going off of the Broly movie, where great ape was above SSG (in tern making SSB 25,000 base).

Vegito is the max power of the strongest fusees correct so that would be BoG Vegito who would be the combination of both SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta or SSJ2 Rage Vegeta. So that calc of Vegito being twice BoG Goku should be correct if not higher. You also are using Broly as a scale but Broly went from "This doesn't even count as a Warm Up." while Vegeta was in Base to tanking and overpowering him in his SSJ form in a matter of 5 minutes.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

True but Broly does have random moments of his adaptation stopping. Base Broly is > SSJ Vegeta and with a 10x amp he becomes > SSG. So if both Vegeta and Broly got 10x amps, the outcome of Broly > Vegeta stays the same. Also even small increases in power, like a 1.5x boost, is highly exaggerated in Dragon Ball.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Here's what I think also happened. As Broly got stronger via transformation into Ikari, so did the rate of him getting stronger as he fought.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Question: does anyone have that guide that says MUI possibility surpassed Beerus?

 

[ArgosaxDespair]

I only have this one. According to Herms, this is context:

"Meanwhile, according to this even Beerus says Ultra Instinct Goku might be stronger than him (possibly a line from then next episode?), and that there might be more crazy developments in store."

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Thanks.

 

[PFM18]

I only have this one. According to Herms, this is context:
"Meanwhile, according to this even Beerus says Ultra Instinct Goku might be stronger than him (possibly a line from then next episode?), and that there might be more crazy developments in store."

That was just a line that Beerus was supposed to say in the episode, but never actually did. It didn't actually occur, so it's invalid.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

So what are you implying? Beerus is stronger than UI?

 

[ArgosaxDespair]

It's invalid as a trustworthy source material, but the information, which has been confirmed in the anime already, remains valid. Even though it shows UI Sign, it's actually referring to Mastered UI.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Anyway back on the multiplier stuff. AKM's post makes the most sense IMO. Down below is what he said verbatim.

• Base --> Oozaru = 10x

Reaso: Stated by Vegeta during the Saiyan Saga.

• Base --> Kaioken xN = Nx (where N is the number)

Reaso: Stated by Goku in the Saiyan Saga.

• Base --> Super Saiyan = 50x

Reaso: 50% Freeza blocked KKx20 kamehameha with a single hand. 100% Freeza was overpowered by ssj1 Goku. Toriyama doesn't deal in numbers like 41 or 42. So 50x makes the most sense and is correct scaling-wise.

50% Freeza > 20x Base Goku

100% Freeza > 40x Base Goku

SSJ1 Goku > 100% Freeza

• Grade 1 --> Grade 2 = Unknow

Reaso: All we know is that Grade 1 < Androids < Imperfect Cell < Semi-perfect Cell < Grade 2

• Grade 2 --> Grade 3 = Unknow

Reaso: All we know is that Grade 2 < Perfect Cell < Grade 3, going by Cell's and Piccolo's statements. Anyway, Grade 3 is useless so I'll skip directly from Grade 2 to Grade 4.

• Grade 2 --> Grade 4 = Unknown, at least 2x

Reaso: About half power of Grade 4 Goku was enough for Vegeta to realize that the gap between him and Goku has widened again.

50% Grade 4 > Grade 2

100% Grade 4 > 2x Grade 2

• Grade 4 --> Grade 5 or SSJ2 = Unknown, at least 2x

Reaso: Gohan at less than half of his full power was almost holding off against SPC's kamehameha.

<50% SSJ2 = Super Perfect Cell > Perfect Cell > Grade 4

100% SSJ2 > 2x Grade 4

• SSJ2 --> SSJ3 = Unknow

Reaso: All we know is that SSJ2 Goku < Fat Buu < SSJ3 Goku <= Kid Buu

• Fusion = (Max of Fusee 1 + Max of Fusee 2) x tens of times(20-190)

Reaso: Stated by Vados in the ToP arc of DBS.

• SSJ3 --> SSJ4 = Unknow

Reaso: Not enough information.

• SSJ3 --> SSJG = Unknow

Reaso: Not enough information.

• SSJG --> SSJB = Possibly 50x

Reaso: Stated to be the super saiyan form of SSJG