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Geekdom has been wrong on 3 separate occasions, hopefully he's not wrong on this one.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 84
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
- Status
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dragon ball legends is good
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Super saiyan is just a fixed multiplier over his base form. If he absorbs power, it won't go to his powered up form alone, it will naturally strengthen his base. Plus you have Gohan and Krillin commenting about how base Goku's ki is greater than anything they've ever seen in the RoF arc, when they already sensed Goku's battle with Beerus when SSG faded away.
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There's a guide literally confirming it's their base. Akira Toriyama also confirms this, although it refers to the movie, but the same events still occur in the anime.
- I think you'll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God's power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God. Goku basically only thinks of fighting as a sporting match, so borrowing the power of five people isn't fair, and he resisted doing that; however, it seems his curiosity towards the realm that lay even further beyond him won out.
- "Let's say I got a taste of something called Super Saiyan God, and now I've learned to tap into that power on my own. And it's the Super Saiyan level of that."
It's not a rage boost, Goku literally absorbed the power of his Super Saiyan God form. They say this, everyone says this, it's far different. Nothing implies it's temporary either, just that he exhausted his power by using the last bit against Beerus' energy attack.PFM18 said:
Or Goku can still go Super Saiyan God even after absorbing its power, which he can. Also, the quote does not imply Goku hasn't surpassed his BoG God form, just that SSB>SSG.PFM18 said:
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I wouldn't say so. Freeza definitely has solid feats to show his improvement, but I don't think Goku and Vegeta have received another off-screen power amp.
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Oh, at the whole Android 17/18 thing..
Bulma stated while looking at 17's blueprint that he was human-based, but just about everything has been enhanced with bio-mechanical components, according to Dragon Ball chapter 365, Son Goku Awakens.
Daizenshuu #4 states that his only truly mechanical components were the self-destruction bomb and the emergency remote deactiavtion device, both of which were removed.
Meaning Dr. Gero was able to invent an infinite energy device using organic materials.
Makes sense, I guess. Cell was a bio-android, by "absorbing" 17 and 18 he was probably fusing with them on a cellular level to incorporate their enhancements into his.
Bulma stated while looking at 17's blueprint that he was human-based, but just about everything has been enhanced with bio-mechanical components, according to Dragon Ball chapter 365, Son Goku Awakens.
Daizenshuu #4 states that his only truly mechanical components were the self-destruction bomb and the emergency remote deactiavtion device, both of which were removed.
Meaning Dr. Gero was able to invent an infinite energy device using organic materials.
Makes sense, I guess. Cell was a bio-android, by "absorbing" 17 and 18 he was probably fusing with them on a cellular level to incorporate their enhancements into his.
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Yes of course, that if his SSJ state becomes stronger, so does his Bas form. More specifically, his base is 1/50th the strength of his SSJ, therefore, Goku's Base form at the end of BoG is AT LEAST 1/50th the power of BoG SSG, but not necessarily stronger than it. Gohan and Krillin claiming that it is the highest ki they have ever felt in RoF is a mistranslation, the official translation says absolutely nothing of the sort. Not even remotely close actually.AKM sama said:
"I think you'll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God's power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God. Goku basically only thinks of fighting as a sporting match, so borrowing the power of five people isn't fair, and he resisted doing that; however, it seems his curiosity towards the realm that lay even further beyond him won out."
That was only in the movie. It holds absolutely no relevance to the DBS anime. By that same logic, Goku and Vegeta have God Ki in their Base forms, because they did in the RoF movie. We can clearly see in the DBS anime that they do not have God Ki in their Base form. Or for that matter, according to the movie continuity, they were only going to use their Base and SSB forms going forward, and the SSB form would have to lliterally only be a 1.5x boost for it to stay beneath Beerus. That is also not the case clearly in the DBS anime.
"It's not a rage boost, Goku literally absorbed the power of his Super Saiyan God form. They say this, everyone says this, it's far different. Nothing implies it's temporary either, just that he exhausted his power by using the last bit against Beerus' energy attack."
No offense, but are you reading to what you are responding to? The absorption of the SSG state has already been addressed. The "he absorbed the SSG state" was when he was in his SSJ form. The statement about him surpassing SSG was while he was in his SSG form. It is describing that his SSJ FORM, and not his BASE FORM, had absorbed and surpassed the SSG power. As previously mentioned, YES THIS DOES MEAN HIS BASE GOT STRONGER STOP REPEATING THAT, but it does not mean his Base surpassed SSG.
Goku got a rage boost in his Base form, completely and totally unrelated to the absorption, that allowed him to do so well in his Base form. You would have to prove that this is the first and only permanent rage boost in Dragon Ball history. There is no evidence that this scene is even related to the SSG absorption that was previously discussed in the arc.
This "Absorbed into Base" garbage is just SeththeProgrammer's bullshit rhetoric that has poisoned the Dragon Ball community.
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So lemme get this straight. You're pressed about people saying SSG was absorbed into base instead of SSJ? Saying the community is poisoned over this "garbage" just blows me. It's not a big deal bro, the power difference between base and SSJ in DBS is barely noticeable because of all the different forms now. There's no reason to angrily rant at "us", who were having a peaceful discussion about DB, just because you think SSJ was SSG level instead of Base, a minor detail I might add.
TDLR: relax it's not that big of a deal.
TDLR: relax it's not that big of a deal.
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"That was Goku's temporary rage boost"
Incorrect. Rage boosts have never been treated as limit-breaking. Goku specifically says that Beerus can't decide someone's limits. Even in Black's case, where you think it was temporary, Zamasu states otherwise. He clearly says that Black got stronger after being beaten by Goku, so it wasn't Goku getting weaker, but Black getting stronger that made Goku lose the fight.
We cannot forget about Whis' training. The whole thing implies that SSJ are simply amplifiers at that point, and IIRC, even Whis states that. Vegeta trained his base form only, and they couldn't use SSJ forms, and again, there is no mention of his SSJ being the real deal. After meeting Vegeta for the first time after Whis' training, Goku barely recognizes Vegeta's ki, and the fish states that Vegeta can feel god ki already, implying that he had been training to do so. After training for some time in their base forms, their fists clash, and we can see a Super Saiyan Blue sparkle of power for the first time, showing the innate godhood of their internal power at that point, and they did while in their base.
I would advise you to create a CRT to change our feats and scaling chains. Trust your potential! Make VS Battles great again!
Incorrect. Rage boosts have never been treated as limit-breaking. Goku specifically says that Beerus can't decide someone's limits. Even in Black's case, where you think it was temporary, Zamasu states otherwise. He clearly says that Black got stronger after being beaten by Goku, so it wasn't Goku getting weaker, but Black getting stronger that made Goku lose the fight.
We cannot forget about Whis' training. The whole thing implies that SSJ are simply amplifiers at that point, and IIRC, even Whis states that. Vegeta trained his base form only, and they couldn't use SSJ forms, and again, there is no mention of his SSJ being the real deal. After meeting Vegeta for the first time after Whis' training, Goku barely recognizes Vegeta's ki, and the fish states that Vegeta can feel god ki already, implying that he had been training to do so. After training for some time in their base forms, their fists clash, and we can see a Super Saiyan Blue sparkle of power for the first time, showing the innate godhood of their internal power at that point, and they did while in their base.
I would advise you to create a CRT to change our feats and scaling chains. Trust your potential! Make VS Battles great again!
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Bois and gals, should SSJB Gogeta and Ikari Broly's renders be updated to their FighterZ counterparts? I think the Broly one looks far better than the one we're currently using. Both Gogetas look good, so I'm ok with leaving the one we're currently using there or changing it.
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Rage boosts are by definition limit breaks. It allows you to access power far beyond your normal limitations. Gohan went from 1 to 1300. Vegeta went from his limit being far below SSJ3, to being far above SSJ3, and so on. The fact that identical verbatim is not used in previous boosts means nothing. That's just semantics. Semantics is not an argument. With regards to Black, I never said that he got weaker? What are you even talking about? I said Goku returned to normal with his rage boost against Black, Black himself has his own dynamic where he was increasing in power throughout. Black surpassed even Goku's enraged power. Doesn't mean this rage boost was somehow unique, in that he became permanently stronger.ArgosaxDespair said:
SSJ has always been and always will be a simple amplifier to the "baseline" power of any given character that has used it. Whis's description is more reiterating than it is any new meaninful information. Whis explains that, he thinks that their Base form is the best way for them to train, but that he never actually had to tell them that explicitly because they knew it themselves. He was complimenting their knowledge. Not that this is really relevant, are you trying to dispute what SSJ actually is? What's even your point.
Frankly, your description of Goku's arrival back on Beerus's planet is completely wrong. The Oracle fish comments that Vegeta is now able to sense God ki, which does not imply he had been learning God kI in the mean time or anything. Jiren, Hit, and Cabba can sense God KI without having it themselves. When Vegeta is exposed to God Ki itself in the staff for the first time, he is clueless on it, and shows that he has had no previous exposure. He makes note of the incredible pressure that God Ki has, and that is noted thereafter by other characters whenever he or Goku goes SSB. Goku and Vegeta train, learning about God Ki, and then SSB is hinted at. They were never actuallyl shown to be able to use God Ki in their Base form, though. Not sure how any of this actually indicates their Base form is stronger than BoG SSG though.
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Before I make my arguments, I'm just going to ask that you don't quote large walls of text. To signify you're talking to someone, just write @ and then their user name or break up quotes and keep them as minimalistic as possible, like I'm doing in this comment.
The "he absorbed the SSG state" was when he was in his SSJ form. The statement about him surpassing SSG was while he was in his SSG form. It is describing that his SSJ FORM, and not his BASE FORM, had absorbed and surpassed the SSG power.
So what? Does that mean Goku can't also use it in his base. No, because he clearly can and you're just making up non-existent evidence. If you watch the series, the evidence stacks up against you, such as everyone not being able to see Goku and Frieza move in their battle, while they could against Super Saiyan God and Beerus and even comment on the battle.
BoG Saga:
RoF Saga:
Goku got a rage boost in his Base form, completely and totally unrelated to the absorption, that allowed him to do so well in his Base form. You would have to prove that this is the first and only permanent rage boost in Dragon Ball history. There is no evidence that this scene is even related to the SSG absorption that was previously discussed in the arc.
First of all, your point falls flat to begin with because you're the one who actually has to prove it's a rage boost and it's unrelated to absorbing God Ki. You've just declared it to be so with zero evidence, other than "well, he said SHUT UP! and that Beerus can't decide his limits, so you're wrong." Second of all, this would constitute the most massive rage boost in Dragon Ball history. Even Vegeta, as a Super Saiyan 2, was still literally absolutely no match for Beerus after he hit Bulma, and you're trying to claim Base Goku far stronger than both his Super Saiyan and amped Super Saiyan forms.
This "Absorbed into Base" garbage is just SeththeProgrammer's bullshit rhetoric that has poisoned the Dragon Ball community.
No, you just treat your opinion as if it's absolute, unequivocal fact. You've got no actual proof and you're just making stuff up about a show that's far less complicated than you're making it out to be.
Who cares? It happened in both the show and film in exactly the same way. Stop needlessly over complicating Dragon Ball. Also, that last part is completely untrue, Goku explicitly mentions he can't sense Beerus' Ki in the film: "We contacted Whis-san, and had him bring us here. We ain't able to sense your Ki, so that's the only thing we can do".PFM18 said:
The "he absorbed the SSG state" was when he was in his SSJ form. The statement about him surpassing SSG was while he was in his SSG form. It is describing that his SSJ FORM, and not his BASE FORM, had absorbed and surpassed the SSG power.
So what? Does that mean Goku can't also use it in his base. No, because he clearly can and you're just making up non-existent evidence. If you watch the series, the evidence stacks up against you, such as everyone not being able to see Goku and Frieza move in their battle, while they could against Super Saiyan God and Beerus and even comment on the battle.
BoG Saga:
RoF Saga:
Goku got a rage boost in his Base form, completely and totally unrelated to the absorption, that allowed him to do so well in his Base form. You would have to prove that this is the first and only permanent rage boost in Dragon Ball history. There is no evidence that this scene is even related to the SSG absorption that was previously discussed in the arc.
First of all, your point falls flat to begin with because you're the one who actually has to prove it's a rage boost and it's unrelated to absorbing God Ki. You've just declared it to be so with zero evidence, other than "well, he said SHUT UP! and that Beerus can't decide his limits, so you're wrong." Second of all, this would constitute the most massive rage boost in Dragon Ball history. Even Vegeta, as a Super Saiyan 2, was still literally absolutely no match for Beerus after he hit Bulma, and you're trying to claim Base Goku far stronger than both his Super Saiyan and amped Super Saiyan forms.
This "Absorbed into Base" garbage is just SeththeProgrammer's bullshit rhetoric that has poisoned the Dragon Ball community.
No, you just treat your opinion as if it's absolute, unequivocal fact. You've got no actual proof and you're just making stuff up about a show that's far less complicated than you're making it out to be.
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It's a bit difficult to explain in an understandable way, but I'll try my best. You go into source editor mode, which is the button with two brackets below, and copy-paste the quotes multiple times. Then you can edit the quotes as much as you need.
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For the sake of tagging you.....ByAsura said:
Who cares? It happened in both the show and film in exactly the same way. Stop needlessly over complicating Dragon Ball. Also, that last part is completely untrue, Goku explicitly mentions he can't sense Beerus' Ki in the film: "We contacted Whis-san, and had him bring us here. We ain't able to sense your Ki, so that's the only thing we can do".
It is not "needlessly complicating" Dragon Ball to distinguish between continuities. Continuity exists in anime and manga, and Dragon Ball is no exception. The movie continuity and the DBS continuity are separate continuities in Dragon Ball.
But if you insist upon consideirng the movies, it just treats the SSJ~SSG thing the same way, and never shows his Base form to be stronger than his SSJ state so it doesn't really help your argument.
So what? Does that mean Goku can't also use it in his base. No, because he clearly can and you're just making up non-existent evidence. If you watch the series, the evidence stacks up against you, such as everyone not being able to see Goku and Frieza move in their battle, while they could against Super Saiyan God and Beerus and even comment on the battle.
....he can't use "it" in Base? So, to be clear, Goku's gets a power-up such that his SSJ form is even with, and later surpasses it, and you are arbitrarily claiming that he can...also somehow make his Base as storng as SSG but just like chose not to? Why didn't he get 50x stronger then? He doesn't even notice that he loses SSG when he goes from SSG to SSJ, and says he hasn't gotten weaker. He was exactly the same strength,(and eventually got stronger) if what you were claiming was true, his Base would be SSG level and he would have gotten 50x stronger immediately.
....They were fighting in the atmosphere though? They could not actually see them. It is identical to how they were "feeling" Cell and Vegeta fighting, even though they were on the Lookout, Bulma was the only one that was unaware because she cannot sense Ki. Piccolo, Tenshinhan, etc could not see the many many miles down to where Cell and Vegeta were fighting. It's the same concept here with Beerus and Goku. There's no way thiey could see the fight, but they could "feel" what was happening. So that is not really evidence.
First of all, your point falls flat to begin with because you're the one who actually has to prove it's a rage boost and it's unrelated to absorbing God Ki. You've just declared it to be so with zero evidence, other than "well, he said SHUT UP! and that Beerus can't decide his limits, so you're wrong." Second of all, this would constitute the most massive rage boost in Dragon Ball history. Even Vegeta, as a Super Saiyan 2, was still literally absolutely no match for Beerus after he hit Bulma, and you're trying to claim Base Goku far stronger than both his Super Saiyan and amped Super Saiyan forms.
Except the story never actually draws any connection between them? The Burden of proof is on you to show that they ARE related. And no, it would not constitute the largest rage boost ever, he simply surpassed his previous SSJ form at the time in Base, that's just a 50+ times boost. Gohan got 1,300x stronger against Raditz, and also got many dozens of times stronger when he got mad against Freeza. This boost is much much smaller than both of those.
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You've clearly missed what I was talking about already since you didn't keep these points as minimal as possible. In fact, you didn't even need to quote anything, like I told you before, because everyone knows what you're talking about.
It is needlessly complicating things. The films and the anime are separate continuities, but both these events occur in each canon and haven't been contradicted in either. I have given evidence, when Goku and Frieza move at FTE speeds to people who can see his God form.
I didn't claim that, I just said his base is stronger than the form he used against Beerus and that power is permanent. Because he didn't stack Super Saiyan on it, which he does later. Simple, he absorbed all the power into his base form and grew stronger after losing Super Saiyan, which he did and guides confirm. If he absorbed all the power, why would it be reduced by 50 times by just going Super Saiyan?
They could see them, everyone says as much, and it's because they took their ship near the battle. The reason they have to view the fight through Whis' staff is because the stratosphere was being ravaged by Goku and Beerus' fight. You're completely ignoring the fact that nobody can sense Godly Ki, and they'd still be able to "feel" know what's happening in the Goku vs Frieza fight by your logic.
No, you're making these claims, the burden of proof is on you. I thought you were saying he didn't because they were unrelated.
It is needlessly complicating things. The films and the anime are separate continuities, but both these events occur in each canon and haven't been contradicted in either. I have given evidence, when Goku and Frieza move at FTE speeds to people who can see his God form.
I didn't claim that, I just said his base is stronger than the form he used against Beerus and that power is permanent. Because he didn't stack Super Saiyan on it, which he does later. Simple, he absorbed all the power into his base form and grew stronger after losing Super Saiyan, which he did and guides confirm. If he absorbed all the power, why would it be reduced by 50 times by just going Super Saiyan?
They could see them, everyone says as much, and it's because they took their ship near the battle. The reason they have to view the fight through Whis' staff is because the stratosphere was being ravaged by Goku and Beerus' fight. You're completely ignoring the fact that nobody can sense Godly Ki, and they'd still be able to "feel" know what's happening in the Goku vs Frieza fight by your logic.
No, you're making these claims, the burden of proof is on you. I thought you were saying he didn't because they were unrelated.
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If you think the concept of keeping continuities consistent is "needlessly complicated", then I don't know what to tell you. It simply isn't, and is an important distinction to make. Again, if we are going by the movies, then Goku and Vegeta have God Ki in their Base and Base->SSB is a 1.5x multiplier or less since they remain weaker than Beerus despite their Base being SSG level after Whis's training. That's obviously not true in the DBS anime. Keep continuties straight, it's important. And no, Base Goku destroying the SoD in Base form does not occur in the movie. and that is the entire premise of this conversation. You are simply factually incorrect. They do not occur in both continuties. This renders the movies even less relevan to your point.
He does later? Based on what? What suggests that he has that power in Base and stacked SSJ on it? The Beerus fight doesn't suggest that at all, it ends with Goku in Base form, when he negated the SoD. You would have an argument if Goku went SSJ after that and he outperformed his previous self and/or Beerus makes a statement about it. Neither of those things actually happen. The story is extremely clear that when SSG runs out, his SSJ is equal to it. He becomes stronger, sure, but there is literally nothing suggesting that this relationship between SSG and his Base form has changed. The entire narrative premise of "absorbing" SSG occurs when he is in SSJ, and so this premise of absorbing the power specifically into his Base form is just not supported at all. Like, there is literally nothing suggesting it. SSJ~SSG due to absorption was established, not Base~SSG due to absorpton. Guides confirm that it was absorbed in Base? Source? No such "Guide" exists.
Who the **** says that they can't "feel" both fights? They aren't clueless as to what is happening during the Goku vs Freeza fight, they are still aware of how it is going, they just cannot visually see it. You referenced the part where they are all on the ship and discussing the fight, of which I explained. Goku was not using God Ki when he was SSJ and that's when it was being discussed, so whether God Ki can be sensed is not relevant. And your entire premise doesn't even make sense. Bulma and others are able to see Trunks and Goku fight in the FT arc, in addition to Black and SSJ2 Goku by your logic, SSJ2 Goku FT arc<Base Goku RoF arc and Bulma is super strong. They can see Jiren and Goku fight, etc.
They are unrelated. The burden of proof is on you to show that they are related, not on me to prove that they are unrelated. That's simply an appeal to ignorance fallacy.
He does later? Based on what? What suggests that he has that power in Base and stacked SSJ on it? The Beerus fight doesn't suggest that at all, it ends with Goku in Base form, when he negated the SoD. You would have an argument if Goku went SSJ after that and he outperformed his previous self and/or Beerus makes a statement about it. Neither of those things actually happen. The story is extremely clear that when SSG runs out, his SSJ is equal to it. He becomes stronger, sure, but there is literally nothing suggesting that this relationship between SSG and his Base form has changed. The entire narrative premise of "absorbing" SSG occurs when he is in SSJ, and so this premise of absorbing the power specifically into his Base form is just not supported at all. Like, there is literally nothing suggesting it. SSJ~SSG due to absorption was established, not Base~SSG due to absorpton. Guides confirm that it was absorbed in Base? Source? No such "Guide" exists.
Who the **** says that they can't "feel" both fights? They aren't clueless as to what is happening during the Goku vs Freeza fight, they are still aware of how it is going, they just cannot visually see it. You referenced the part where they are all on the ship and discussing the fight, of which I explained. Goku was not using God Ki when he was SSJ and that's when it was being discussed, so whether God Ki can be sensed is not relevant. And your entire premise doesn't even make sense. Bulma and others are able to see Trunks and Goku fight in the FT arc, in addition to Black and SSJ2 Goku by your logic, SSJ2 Goku FT arc<Base Goku RoF arc and Bulma is super strong. They can see Jiren and Goku fight, etc.
They are unrelated. The burden of proof is on you to show that they are related, not on me to prove that they are unrelated. That's simply an appeal to ignorance fallacy.
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"They do not occur in both continuties." That's an assumption you've just made with literally no evidence at all. Stop making up facts, we're not led to believe they're any different, it's just you who's thinking this. The power scaling is different in the movies, but that doesn't mean the mechanics of Goku's forms are different, and the whole 6/10 thing is contradicted by RoF, where it'd take SSB Goku and Vegeta to fight on par with Beerus and Golden Frieza fears for his life at his mere presence.
What literally doesn't suggest that aside from your headcanon? Nothing, you made it up and it's as simple as that. You literally said has 1/50th of his SSG power in base, and now you're completely going back on that. I've already given the guides.
The only one directly shown to know what's going on is Vegeta and Jaco. Jaco has Galactic Patrol enhanced eyes and Vegeta is equal to Goku. The only thing the others are shown to know is that Frieza and Goku fought, Vegeta and Goku fought (both of whom were also holding back), then SSB Goku was losing against Vegeta. The scans I show are during the battle with SSG, so they are relevant here. Or they just got better. Your points make no sense, because in half these battles they're in God forms where people are unable to sense their Ki, one of which is also the fight between Frieza and SSB Goku.
No, the burden is once again on you. You're claiming from out of nowhere with zero evidence that the forms are unrelated.
What literally doesn't suggest that aside from your headcanon? Nothing, you made it up and it's as simple as that. You literally said has 1/50th of his SSG power in base, and now you're completely going back on that. I've already given the guides.
The only one directly shown to know what's going on is Vegeta and Jaco. Jaco has Galactic Patrol enhanced eyes and Vegeta is equal to Goku. The only thing the others are shown to know is that Frieza and Goku fought, Vegeta and Goku fought (both of whom were also holding back), then SSB Goku was losing against Vegeta. The scans I show are during the battle with SSG, so they are relevant here. Or they just got better. Your points make no sense, because in half these battles they're in God forms where people are unable to sense their Ki, one of which is also the fight between Frieza and SSB Goku.
No, the burden is once again on you. You're claiming from out of nowhere with zero evidence that the forms are unrelated.
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The scene where Goku destroys the SoD in his Base form literally does not happen. That's not an assumption. It simply factually did not happen. And the 6/10/15 scale is not contradicted in RoF at all? Beerus is stronger than Golden Freeza, and Goku adn Vegeta would need to team up to win, what's the problem? Where is the contadiction?
Again, WHAT GUIDE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You keep referencing a guide that does not exist. I asked you to post the guide,and you just repeated your claim with nothing. How the **** am I completely going back on that? Goku's SSJ was equal to SSG when it ran out, explicitly stated by Beerus and Goku themselves. No head canon involved. Since SSG=SSJ, Base=SSG/50 at the time this is basic math. Explicit statement, feats, no head canon, and I have stayed very consistent about it. I didn't head back on anything.
Again, by your logic, why was everyone able to see SSJ2 Future Trunks vs SSJ2 Goku? Why were they able to see Black vs SSJ2 Goku? Are you saying that SSJ2 Goku in the FT arc is weaker than RoF Base Goku or what? Becaus this entire premise only works if you make that cliam, which is obviously nonsensical.
unrelated forms? I was never saying anything about a form being related or not related or not. I'm not sure what you are saying.. I'm just stating the obvious fact that the "absorption" with regards to SSG, and Goku's rage boost against the SoD are unrelated, simply because there is nothing suggesting that they are related. Beerus and Goku just have a conversation about limits, Goku was able to break his limits by being enraged. The end. He screamed "SHUT UP" 4 times and then punched the ball. He was enraged, then his power went back to normal, like any other rage boost. This is very straight forward.
Again, WHAT GUIDE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You keep referencing a guide that does not exist. I asked you to post the guide,and you just repeated your claim with nothing. How the **** am I completely going back on that? Goku's SSJ was equal to SSG when it ran out, explicitly stated by Beerus and Goku themselves. No head canon involved. Since SSG=SSJ, Base=SSG/50 at the time this is basic math. Explicit statement, feats, no head canon, and I have stayed very consistent about it. I didn't head back on anything.
Again, by your logic, why was everyone able to see SSJ2 Future Trunks vs SSJ2 Goku? Why were they able to see Black vs SSJ2 Goku? Are you saying that SSJ2 Goku in the FT arc is weaker than RoF Base Goku or what? Becaus this entire premise only works if you make that cliam, which is obviously nonsensical.
unrelated forms? I was never saying anything about a form being related or not related or not. I'm not sure what you are saying.. I'm just stating the obvious fact that the "absorption" with regards to SSG, and Goku's rage boost against the SoD are unrelated, simply because there is nothing suggesting that they are related. Beerus and Goku just have a conversation about limits, Goku was able to break his limits by being enraged. The end. He screamed "SHUT UP" 4 times and then punched the ball. He was enraged, then his power went back to normal, like any other rage boost. This is very straight forward.
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He briefly tapped into his SSG form and absorbed the attack, but that doesn't even mean it's different from the anime, especially since he still has enough power to hold back the attack before transforming. SSB Goku is much stronger than SSG, yet it takes two of them to be on Beerus' level, and a guy far stronger than each of them individually is scared for his life of the afformentioned God.
The movie guides that the animes are based off. Also, Zamasu says "Who is he? He's not even a god, yet his power rivals the Hakaishi!" and the others imply he's stronger than when he fought Beerus, which further reinforces my point. In fact, when Goku starts training with Whis, he survives an unrestrained attack from Beerus.
You are using head canon, your points aren't even supported by any Dragon Ball media, you're just saying "well the anime doesn't make it clear." Damn right the anime doesn't make it clear, they expect you to know this with everything they're giving you and not make up points that the creators don't imply, and Goku himself says "Let's say I got a taste of something called Super Saiyan God, and now I've learned to tap into that power on my own. And it's the Super Saiyan level of that."
I misunderstood your points about the relationship between Base and SSG, sorry.
Those are far later arcs where the characters have gotten stronger. I've already explained this. Also, in those fights the likes of Bulma can see their movements, so that should tell you something, like maybe the spectators of the ToP and U7 vs U6 Tournament are being allowed to percieve these fights. Also, there's no indication anyone can see the fight except Beerus, Whis and Vegeta.
I thought you were saying something else, sorry. His power didn't go back to normal, he had none left after punching that sphere, which the anime tells you, Goku even implies it takes days for him to be at "tippy-top" strength afterwards. That also doesn't suggest it was a brief rage boost.
The movie guides that the animes are based off. Also, Zamasu says "Who is he? He's not even a god, yet his power rivals the Hakaishi!" and the others imply he's stronger than when he fought Beerus, which further reinforces my point. In fact, when Goku starts training with Whis, he survives an unrestrained attack from Beerus.
You are using head canon, your points aren't even supported by any Dragon Ball media, you're just saying "well the anime doesn't make it clear." Damn right the anime doesn't make it clear, they expect you to know this with everything they're giving you and not make up points that the creators don't imply, and Goku himself says "Let's say I got a taste of something called Super Saiyan God, and now I've learned to tap into that power on my own. And it's the Super Saiyan level of that."
I misunderstood your points about the relationship between Base and SSG, sorry.
Those are far later arcs where the characters have gotten stronger. I've already explained this. Also, in those fights the likes of Bulma can see their movements, so that should tell you something, like maybe the spectators of the ToP and U7 vs U6 Tournament are being allowed to percieve these fights. Also, there's no indication anyone can see the fight except Beerus, Whis and Vegeta.
I thought you were saying something else, sorry. His power didn't go back to normal, he had none left after punching that sphere, which the anime tells you, Goku even implies it takes days for him to be at "tippy-top" strength afterwards. That also doesn't suggest it was a brief rage boost.
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Oh wow how convenient. You wont' respond if I respond.
It's very simple, not much to even discuss. Goku adapted to/absorbed SSG into SSJ, and then later he got a rage boost that allowed his Base form to destroy the SoD. Therefore, "absorbed into Base" is not a thing. Very simple. No matter how much movie continuity and appeal to ignorances you want to use, it doesn't change the facts. Base Goku early in Super>BoG SSG is a farce.
It's very simple, not much to even discuss. Goku adapted to/absorbed SSG into SSJ, and then later he got a rage boost that allowed his Base form to destroy the SoD. Therefore, "absorbed into Base" is not a thing. Very simple. No matter how much movie continuity and appeal to ignorances you want to use, it doesn't change the facts. Base Goku early in Super>BoG SSG is a farce.
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