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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 78
- Thread starter DragonEmperor23
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But the redeeming qualities of GT were the transformations... Everybody loves SSJ4.
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SSJ4 is realistic and works.
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20:00-21:00 of that video are my thoughts on SSJ4 on SSG-SSB.
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I'm expecting Frieza to get Destruction energy or 100% Golden. Maybe both. Would be cool if he isn't relegated to Piccolo-status at the very least aka irrelevancy with zero power-ups.
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Super has way too much transformations.
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Z - Kaio-Ken, 2nd form, 3rd form, 4th form, 100%, Super Saiyan, Ascended, Ultra, Semi-Perfect, Perfect, Super Perfect, Super Saiyan 2, Super Saiyan 3, Mystic, Super, Piccolo absorbed, Gotenks absorbed, Gohan absorbed, Kid.
Super - God, Golden, Blue, Kaio-Blue, Rage, Rose, Berserk, UIO, SSBE, Ganos form, UI, Wrath
I guess you could point to Kale's Berserk variants but I'm not really sure if they would count. But I'd say Super isn't as bad as Z with its constant transformations and power-ups yet.
Super - God, Golden, Blue, Kaio-Blue, Rage, Rose, Berserk, UIO, SSBE, Ganos form, UI, Wrath
I guess you could point to Kale's Berserk variants but I'm not really sure if they would count. But I'd say Super isn't as bad as Z with its constant transformations and power-ups yet.
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Don't forget Dypso's Super Lightspeed mode and Toppo's GoD form.
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I personally don't like SSJ4, never was a fan of the furry guyliner look - it just screams 90s to me, and seems really stupid.
I do like the notion of a transformation being based on the Oozaru form though - that's why I adore Broly's Ikari form.
I do like the notion of a transformation being based on the Oozaru form though - that's why I adore Broly's Ikari form.
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Same. Broly's Fury State takes the Concept of SSJ4 without the 90s and the simplicity of the main series transformations sans SSJ3.Warren Valion said:
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Huh? It's reminiscent of a gorrila/monkeys fur, which can be various colors, including shades of red.
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I really like Ikari Broly and all but I ''very'' much prefer SSJ4 to it because it's well...actually a transformation.
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I never said anything on the fur color, I just said that the appearance of 4 is too 90s for my taste. I always enjoyed simplistic forms/states over overtly designed ones if they stray too far from the original pack(Sage Mode, Super Saiyan, LFDM, Hollowfication, Oath Flame, etc.)
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How does the form look 90s?
Personally I prefer design changes as a whole as its an actual change. A subtle change in the eyes or something doesn't do much. I can never tell when Natsu's in LFDM for example. I wouldn't group SSJ1 with the rest of those btw.
Personally I prefer design changes as a whole as its an actual change. A subtle change in the eyes or something doesn't do much. I can never tell when Natsu's in LFDM for example. I wouldn't group SSJ1 with the rest of those btw.
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The mass difference is a start but simply an aura doesn't make a transformation.
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The lightning?The real cal howard said:
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It's edgy and stupid looking. And SSJ4 wasn't designed by Toriyama - it was designed by Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru.ZERO7772 said:
ProudLearner
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Toriyama didn't design 4. Z Movies and GT's character designer Nakatsuru did. And in that it looks 90s, it's the hairstyle and art design of GT. Several look like they should be apart of a rock group and Gohan and Vegeta straight up have mullets. Also I don't see why SSJ shouldn't be grouped with the rest when the only uniform change is a change in hair color. In some cases their hair doesn't even change (Gohan, Vegeta, Shallot, Beat sometimes, Raditz)
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I ain't a fan of simple palette swaps either, which is why I wasn't a super big fan of Blue.
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It's funny too because God, Golden, Blue, Rose, SSBE are just different color palettes of established transformations, the concept of Berserk was introduced in Z through the Broly movies, Rage is literally SSJ2 and a half lol, and Kaio-Blue was also a concept introduced before (Super Kaioken)CryoTheMayo said:
Other Super originals though would be, Anilaza's wings, Super Duper Ribrianne idk lol, GOD Toppo, Super Sonic Style Dyspo, Shirtless Jiren, Drugged Basil, Big Boy Bergamo, Ketoplesa's colors of doom, and Watagayish
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Again, the concept is interesting, ut's just the design that I find dumb. And I never said I liked the God forms either - the only one I kinda like is Ultra Instinct because that has a purpose and meaning with it - it isn't just a color swap, there a little more there.ZERO7772 said:
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Again, the concept is interesting, ut's just the design that I find dumb. And I never said I liked the God forms either - the only one I kinda like is Ultra Instinct because that has a purpose and meaning with it - it isn't just a color swap, there a little more there.
Cuz becoming a "God" doesnt have a purpose or anything, amirite.
Cuz becoming a "God" doesnt have a purpose or anything, amirite.
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PaChi2 wrote
His point is pretty clearly that Goku unlocking God Ki has no actual value or meaning to it. It's just an empty power boost to handwave why he is suddenly so much more powerful. It's a trashy, and lazy, power boost with no lore, no mythos and no build up.
What does having God Ki actually 'mean' for Goku and Vegeta? Nothing. It's just some garbage excuse for them going from 4-B to 3-A.
His point is pretty clearly that Goku unlocking God Ki has no actual value or meaning to it. It's just an empty power boost to handwave why he is suddenly so much more powerful. It's a trashy, and lazy, power boost with no lore, no mythos and no build up.
What does having God Ki actually 'mean' for Goku and Vegeta? Nothing. It's just some garbage excuse for them going from 4-B to 3-A.
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Kaio-Ke - Brief power-up at the cost of damaging the body and leading to potential death. Goku nearly had to kill himself to use it against Vegeta and would have died instantly if he didn't use it perfectly against Frieza.PaChi2 said:
Super Saiya - Legendary transformation of his race. Causes the pure Goku to become tainted with Saiyan instincts and causing him to become angrier and more brutal in his fighting style. Had to master it to retain calmness.
Super Saiyan 2 - An ascension of the Super Saiyan transformation. The 'perfect' Super Saiyan form. Manifested itself as Gohan's pure potential combined with Super Saiyan.
Super Saiyan 3 - Extremely unstable extension of Super Saiyan. Provides huge increases of power at the cost of unstable energy, resulting in ridiculous drain.
Super Saiyan 4 - The true potential of the Saiyan race manifested via the tail combined with the Super Saiyan state.
Wrath - The natural power of a Great Ape manifested in a Saiyan's humanoid form. Causes great mental/emotional instability in the user. May or may not enhance zenkai boosting.
VS
Super Saiyan God - Was used once. Didn't come back until the Tournament of Power. Provides Regenerationn for no reason. Shoved into the lore in a single movie and then a few lines of dialogue in the anime that means nothing to the characters or story.
Super Saiyan Blue - Super Saiyan God + Super Saiyan. Literally zero difference between Super Saiyan and Blue outside of power. Has a stamina 'weakness' that never comes up, ever. At least has the stamina weakness in the manga and involved extreme Ki Control to master.
Super Saiyan Rage - Asspull that is never explained, has no special abilities and is overall just irrelevant.
Berserk - Again, never explained. Was implied to have a stamina weakness but never comes up after the first time shown (like Blue). Was mastered in less than 20 minutes in-universe and became identical to a normal Super Saiyan.
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I'm not asking for 'deep lore'. But it would be nice if the anime actually bothered with giving its transformations actual flaws, room for growth and special abilities/mechanics that make them functionally interesting. I don't think anyone will deny that the manga and movies handled the DBS transformations way better.
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Tbh, after SSJ1, all the other DBZ transformations like Grade 2, 3, and 4, SSJ 2 and 3 are just asspull powerups for the sake of moving the plot and have zero lore behind them.
SSG and UI actually have some pretty good lore in comparison.
SSG and UI actually have some pretty good lore in comparison.
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accurateRyukama said:
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