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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Padaruyos said:
Someone needs to revise the Toei DB 4-A - 3-B scaling chain. We used the Serious Punch^2 calc for that and that got replaced with another one.
Click to expand...
Garlick Jrs feat yields practically the same energy as the previous calc for it, so unless it’s a significant upgrade it might be best to just keep it as is since it still scales to 50% Freeza.
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Naah, Ki is just an energy system which includes "soul energy", but no ki user can harm nor affect the soul in any way just by throwing ki attacks
Click to expand...
Mm. This does open up a few questions, though.

Spirit Control is, well, control on the Spirit/Ki, which grants strange abilities like separating Ki (Souls) from a Ki (Soul) Stealer, which then does beg the question: Would the principles of Spirit Control being applied to YOUR OWN Ki be Limited Soul ManipulatIon? Kind of the like the unique "Knowledge of your Soul Outline" operates in JJK? In this case, manipulating your Ki (Soul) to amplify it? I'd argue this seems to be the case, as those without SC are said to be "out of touch with their Spirit." (Spirit being Ki/The Soul.) And increasing that Spirit grants greater power as well as the wealth of techniques (which is described as "shifting, splitting, and growing" one's spirit {Soul}).
 
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LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I believe so, they can manipulate their souls freely, i still think that ki should receive a type 3 concept, because they are linked to the existence of everything multiverse, including the soul itself, beyond timelines.
Click to expand...
I don't know if this makes much difference to the concept.

But ki defines your existence, in addition to each person having their own ki signature, which also defines whether you are good or bad, it also defines whether you are a deity or not.

I saw GOW using this thing about whether you are a god or not to support the concept. Although there is much more there and there is more context about things.

But it's a way of thinking, personally I don't see a type 3 concept in ki, but if you can do it, well, good, I guess.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I don't know if this makes much difference to the concept.

But ki defines your existence, in addition to each person having their own ki signature, which also defines whether you are good or bad, it also defines whether you are a deity or not.

I saw GOW using this thing about whether you are a god or not to support the concept. Although there is much more there and there is more context about things.

But it's a way of thinking, personally I don't see a type 3 concept in ki, but if you can do it, well, good, I guess.
Click to expand...
We literally have this on the verse page.

Talking about being someone's life force, their emotions and mindset. In addition to the additional thing that defines whether you are a god or not.
Genki (元気 lit. "Vigor") is the energy/life force that is projected in ki. Genki is present in the grass and trees, people and animals, inanimate objects, the atmosphere and celestial bodies.[3]

Yūki (勇気 lit. "Courage") is implied to be the literal emotion of courage and the energy rush that comes from that, which would mean ki is as much an emotional concept as it is a physical energy to use in battle.[2] Yūki also makes it possible to grant one's power to another person by cheering and encouraging them.[2][4]

Shōki (正気 lit. "Right-mindedness") is implied to be one's mental state, meaning that by maintaining self-control, balance and staying true to yourself, it is possible to increase your capability in battle.[5]
Click to expand...

Why doesn't Ki have life manipulation? If the vital force is part of ki?
 
RedReaper said:
Mm. This does open up a few questions, though.

Spirit Control is, well, control on the Spirit/Ki, which grants strange abilities like separating Ki (Souls) from a Ki (Soul) Stealer, which then does beg the question: Would the principles of Spirit Control being applied to YOUR OWN Ki be Limited Soul ManipulatIon? Kind of the like the unique "Knowledge of your Soul Outline" operates in JJK? In this case, manipulating your Ki (Soul) to amplify it? I'd argue this seems to be the case, as those without SC are said to be "out of touch with their Spirit." (Spirit being Ki/The Soul.) And increasing that Spirit grants greater power as well as the wealth of techniques (which is described as "shifting, splitting, and growing" one's spirit (Soul).
Click to expand...
Bros cooking I think that if someone does use Spirit Control it should automatically be Soul Manipulation though.
 
RedReaper said:
Mm. This does open up a few questions, though.

Spirit Control is, well, control on the Spirit/Ki, which grants strange abilities like separating Ki (Souls) from a Ki (Soul) Stealer, which then does beg the question: Would the principles of Spirit Control being applied to YOUR OWN Ki be Limited Soul ManipulatIon? Kind of the like the unique "Knowledge of your Soul Outline" operates in JJK? In this case, manipulating your Ki (Soul) to amplify it? I'd argue this seems to be the case, as those without SC are said to be "out of touch with their Spirit." (Spirit being Ki/The Soul.) And increasing that Spirit grants greater power as well as the wealth of techniques (which is described as "shifting, splitting, and growing" one's spirit (Soul).
Click to expand...
I mean, I can see spirit control granting self Soul Manipulation, maybe. But not ki manipulation in general, though.
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I believe so, they can manipulate their souls freely, i still think that ki should receive a type 3 concept, because they are linked to the existence of everything multiverse, including the soul itself, beyond timelines.
Click to expand...
Ki could be a type 3 concept, but it wouldn't matter since:

1. No character can manipulate, erase, or control ki at conceptual level
2. No character would actually have AE besides maybe IZ, who already has it.
 
RedReaper said:
Mm. This does open up a few questions, though.

Spirit Control is, well, control on the Spirit/Ki, which grants strange abilities like separating Ki (Souls) from a Ki (Soul) Stealer, which then does beg the question: Would the principles of Spirit Control being applied to YOUR OWN Ki be Limited Soul ManipulatIon? Kind of the like the unique "Knowledge of your Soul Outline" operates in JJK? In this case, manipulating your Ki (Soul) to amplify it? I'd argue this seems to be the case, as those without SC are said to be "out of touch with their Spirit." (Spirit being Ki/The Soul.) And increasing that Spirit grants greater power as well as the wealth of techniques (which is described as "shifting, splitting, and growing" one's spirit {Soul}).
Click to expand...
Besides, Gotenks makes ghosts.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I don't know if this makes much difference to the concept.

But ki defines your existence, in addition to each person having their own ki signature, which also defines whether you are good or bad, it also defines whether you are a deity or not.

I saw GOW using this thing about whether you are a god or not to support the concept. Although there is much more there and there is more context about things.

But it's a way of thinking, personally I don't see a type 3 concept in ki, but if you can do it, well, good, I guess.
Click to expand...
I think it would work if ki were a type 3 concept, ki is everywhere, including in: objects that don't have lives, Planets, Stars, Galaxies, Universes, even in separate timelines, even in a realm where ki shouldn't even exist there is ki there (I'm talking about the afterlife) every being that is born has their own ki.

Akira once compared ki to a concept and as if it were the same as one.

 
Phsccarvalho said:
We literally have this on the verse page.

Talking about being someone's life force, their emotions and mindset. In addition to the additional thing that defines whether you are a god or not.


Why doesn't Ki have life manipulation? If the vital force is part of ki?
Click to expand...
Life Manipulation is the ability to manipulate the life force that courses inside living beings or the very concept of life itself.

Possible Uses​

  • Animation: Some life manipulators are able to breathe life into inanimate objects, turning them into living creatures to aid them in combat.
  • Plant Manipulation: Life manipulators are frequently associated with plant life, enriching the ground with life energy in order to cause plants to rapidly grow. Some users can control the life energy within the plants for a variety of effects.
  • Healing/Regeneration: Many life manipulators are able to use it to heal themselves or others to greatly prolong the time they spend in combat.
  • Life Stealing/Instant Death: Some life manipulators are able to steal life energy or simply remove the life energy from an opponent's body to grievously harm or kill the target.
  • Statistics Amplification: Many works feature characters that are able to manipulate the life energy within their own body to grant them Superhuman Physical Characteristics or bolster their already great physical prowess.
Click to expand...
Ki has none of those. At best, you can argue that abilities with Ki absorption like Genkidama or Moro's absorption do. But again, energy absorption would be a way more proper term in that case
 
Phsccarvalho said:
We literally have this on the verse page.

Talking about being someone's life force, their emotions and mindset. In addition to the additional thing that defines whether you are a god or not.


Why doesn't Ki have life manipulation? If the vital force is part of ki?
Click to expand...
Tenshinhan died after expending all his ki, If anyone has no more doubts, what's over ki and you're completely dead
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
Bros cooking I think that if someone does use Spirit Control it should automatically be Soul Manipulation though.
Click to expand...
If we do propose this, I do want to say we should probably up better define Vegeta's Soul Manipulation, because we learn at the very end of the Moro Arc that Reverse Forced Spirit Fission can work. (With it being very similarly to the Spirit Bomb, but as a dedicated transfer method of Ki.)
 
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