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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

You should really add mind erasing to the hakai, as it covers all of this and has already been accepted here, because of this Zamasu has his regeneration.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
You know that scene where Beerus and Champa are fighting and then Whis and Vados say that if two gods of destruction fight they could destroy both universes? When they were fighting, the area of effect was the power of destruction, wasn't it? Couldn't this mean that the power of destruction could erase universes? Which would probably result in non-existent erasure due to subspace. It was something I suddenly thought of to see what anyone thinks.
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Yes, I think it can be done and give that hax to the Gods of destruction
 
@XXBenShapiroXx Apparently Ultra's the same guy who, by testimony, consumed EIGHTY FOUR years of Superman comics, TV shows, cartoons, video games, crossovers, radio shows, books, spin offs, and etc.

That and on top of the fact that they're already using stuff from the movies based off Goku's preview, not even getting into Heroes, then Ultraguy's brain has scrambled like an egg after he was done with everything.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
@XXBenShapiroXx Apparently Ultra's the same guy who, by testimony, consumed EIGHTY FOUR years of Superman comics, TV shows, cartoons, video games, crossovers, radio shows, books, spin offs, and etc.

That and on top of the fact that they're already using stuff from the movies based off Goku's preview, not even getting into Heroes, then Ultraguy's brain has scrambled like an egg after he was done with everything.
Click to expand...
So much ******* mid
 
Now I understand the old Kaioshin's quote about leaving just a void and that quote doesn't make BOG level 3-B or anything like that, it just adds even more context to the anime, where all the destruction of the Universe generates a colorful void, where space -time and everything in the Universe was completely destroyed as shown in anime and manga

 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Alright let's go through all this bit by bit since there is a lot wrong here.

The 'oh i understand that simple isn't bad but villains are bad because they are simple' really wasn't a great start. As for why calling Dragon Ball generic is ridiculous? It fostered a majority of shounen anime's most popular tropes, and even back in the 1980's Dragon Ball still had its own unique and wacky identity.

While side characters not being relevant is a fair knock, the only fair knock you make, the story as a whole was about the pursuit of happiness, and these characters found their happiness in several ways. Krillin got married and had a child and eventually got back into martial arts, Yamcha got a baller baseball career, Tien is now teaching his own school, I mean they moved on with their lives. I would like to see them get relevance again, most fans would.

Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Piccolo, they all have a vast array of development, Vegeta and Piccolo explore redemption and forgiveness, Trunks has his hope storyline, and Gohan and Goku both have nature vs nurture stories. Besides, a character doesn't exactly need to have development to be good, take King Kai or Beerus or Whis.

Now, Buu Saga. SSJ3 was a plot device that wasn't meant to actually do anything because the time of one person saving everyone was long gone, no one person was gonna defeat Buu. Goku wanted a successor and threw Gotenks and Gohan at Buu, only for Buu to throw his sucessors back at him. Gohan didn't get shafted, the entire point of the Cell Saga was that he hates fighting because he's been traumatized as a child and these outbursts of anger are the defensive mechanic-isms of a scared child. Goku told Gohan to beat Cell, then go be a scholar.

So like, there isn't a whole lot of ground for Gohan got shafted in the arc when his failure came down to already established flaws he had as a fighter. The most you got was Toriyama going back to Goku as a protagonist, which I think told a much better story due to him realizing it wasn't about one person but everyone working together, ya know, that why he used the spirit bomb, why he needed energy from earth and from those irrelevant characters.

If you have any critics of the Buu Saga with actual narrative grounds I'd like to hear them, because so far they seem to just stem from misunderstanding the story.

Things like Goten and Trunks are points I agree with, just about everyone wants them do something but beyond that I don't see any meat to the rest of those statements. Dragon Ball is the story of Goku, characters come and go throughout the story. And there is no 'writers', mostly just Toriyama and sometimes an editor.

Villains?

Uh, Vegeta was a saiyan elite looking to establish himself as the strongest while secretly vying for the dragon balls to wish for immortality to overthrow Frieza, Frieza is a galatic ruler who acts one part tryant one part buisnessman, Cell wants the perfect fight because of the saiyan cells within him as well as the fact his creator and everything related to that have been destroyed leaving him with literally no other purpose than the want a perfect fight. Buu is really the only 'ounga bounga blow up shit' villian, and even then he constantly switches from naive to sadistic to cunning to black air force. There aren't a ton of villains in Super, just opponents like Beerus, Hit, and Jiren. Zamasu loved the universe and wanted to cull the mortals from it so they'd stop ruining it. Moro literally feeds off planets to sustain himself, he's evil yeah, he is also the encapsulation of nearly every past villain, so he was written like that on purpose. Granolah wasn't a villain but he wanted to take revenge upon the saiyans and whatnot, and the heaters wanted to do the same, plus get rid of Frieza too, which is why that arc was about the cycle of violence and pride and how it manifests.

So uhh, if you have a point here beyond reductive framing, that'd be nice.

So far, your reason for thinking Dragon Ball lacks depth comes from not understanding the story it was trying to tell. From the line of examples you've given, you seem to prefer shows that are upfront about their complexity and depth, which is all well and good, but to say Dragon Ball has none of that after misunderstanding several core narrative threads from the shows later arcs like Cell and Buu just isn't a strong argument for Dragon Ball to not have any of the 'depth' you look for. Dragon Ball's depth isn't in your face, which if anything is more subtly than just about any of the shows you mentioned, not to saw they aren't all fantastic pieces of ficton.

The other stuff about the humor and the fights and the rating you'd give it are personal opinions, you are entitled to them, but everything else just isn't an accurate representation of Dragon Ball's story.
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I completely agree with your opinion. DB does not mostly look for depth but when it does it well the reader often does not realize it. I think that one of the situations that DB most resents is usually Goku himself with his questionable attitudes and decisions, and taking as an example the Cell saga (which I feel takes a very paternal approach as an objective as much as between Goku and Gohan as with Vegeta and Trunks). Goku sends Gohan to fight since he did not understand and know Gohan well, he projected his wishes on his son and for that reason he ended up hurt and suffering, when Goku realized the situation he ended up going into shock due to such an event.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Now I understand the old Kaioshin's quote about leaving just a void and that quote doesn't make BOG level 3-B or anything like that, it just adds even more context to the anime, where all the destruction of the Universe generates a colorful void, where space -time and everything in the Universe was completely destroyed as shown in anime and manga

Click to expand...

I’ve always thought it was tier 3, but it’s can’t be lower than 3-A because the living world is larger than our universe and it was going to destroy 2 other 3-A structures.

Saying it’s lower than 3-A is bad faith.
 
Hasty12345 said:
I’ve always thought it was tier 3, but it’s can’t be lower than 3-A because the living world is larger than our universe and it was going to destroy 2 other 3-A structures.

Saying it’s lower than 3-A is bad faith.
Click to expand...
Some say it would destroy all the matter in the Universe making it something around 3-B, but any Universe that is completely destroyed is a low 2-C feat, since you would have to destroy all of it space-time to affect the Universe
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Some say it would destroy all the matter in the Universe making it something around 3-B, but any Universe that is completely destroyed is a low 2-C feat, since you would have to destroy all of it space-time to affect the Universe
Click to expand...
I was writing a long explanation as to why I don’t think the tier 2 scaling for DBS doesn’t start until IZ but then my phone refreshed the page and I lost it.

Long story short about this feat however is it’s not lower than 3-A when you take in the size of the universe and the area of effect including 2 other universe sized realms.
 
Hasty12345 said:
I was writing a long explanation as to why I don’t think the tier 2 scaling for DBS doesn’t start until IZ but then my phone refreshed the page and I lost it.

Long story short about this feat however is it’s not lower than 3-A when you take in the size of the universe and the area of effect including 2 other universe sized realms.
Click to expand...
Exactly, brother, you have a lot of knowledge about it, it's no wonder you've been here for years too
 
Phsccarvalho said:
You know that scene where Beerus and Champa are fighting and then Whis and Vados say that if two gods of destruction fight they could destroy both universes? When they were fighting, the area of effect was the power of destruction, wasn't it? Couldn't this mean that the power of destruction could erase universes? Which would probably result in non-existent erasure due to subspace. It was something I suddenly thought of to see what anyone thinks.
Click to expand...
Power of Destruction is just another type of Ki isn't it? If so......then if they can destroy universe with their own ki, so can their other types of ki
 
It's right here, although my searcher is faulty
vsbattles.com

God Zamasu Mid Godly regeneration removal

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/God_Zamasu_(DBS_Manga) https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Regeneration Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of body, mind, and soul. Wiki standard states characters needs to be completely erased & Regenerate on body soul and mind but...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

I found it by looking on your profile where the business of the mind was accepted
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
It’s stated that the soul includes memories and shapes them I have the scans somewhere, but iirc it’s stated that memories get removed and evil cleansed from a soul after death during the Buu saga before Vegeta does his sacrifice and asks if he’d see goku and keep his body
Click to expand...
souls have memory, but so does a body, it doesn't mean that destroying a soul destroys the mind as well by default
 
omegabronic said:
souls have memory, but so does a body, it doesn't mean that destroying a soul destroys the mind as well by default
Click to expand...
Not really, unless you’re talking about the brain. The mind essentially is just what makes you think and be able to recollect or perceive things. Memories and the mind are linked as having a mind allows for memories.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Alright let's go through all this bit by bit since there is a lot wrong here.

The 'oh i understand that simple isn't bad but villains are bad because they are simple' really wasn't a great start. As for why calling Dragon Ball generic is ridiculous? It fostered a majority of shounen anime's most popular tropes, and even back in the 1980's Dragon Ball still had its own unique and wacky identity.

While side characters not being relevant is a fair knock, the only fair knock you make, the story as a whole was about the pursuit of happiness, and these characters found their happiness in several ways. Krillin got married and had a child and eventually got back into martial arts, Yamcha got a baller baseball career, Tien is now teaching his own school, I mean they moved on with their lives. I would like to see them get relevance again, most fans would.

Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Piccolo, they all have a vast array of development, Vegeta and Piccolo explore redemption and forgiveness, Trunks has his hope storyline, and Gohan and Goku both have nature vs nurture stories. Besides, a character doesn't exactly need to have development to be good, take King Kai or Beerus or Whis.

Now, Buu Saga. SSJ3 was a plot device that wasn't meant to actually do anything because the time of one person saving everyone was long gone, no one person was gonna defeat Buu. Goku wanted a successor and threw Gotenks and Gohan at Buu, only for Buu to throw his sucessors back at him. Gohan didn't get shafted, the entire point of the Cell Saga was that he hates fighting because he's been traumatized as a child and these outbursts of anger are the defensive mechanic-isms of a scared child. Goku told Gohan to beat Cell, then go be a scholar.

So like, there isn't a whole lot of ground for Gohan got shafted in the arc when his failure came down to already established flaws he had as a fighter. The most you got was Toriyama going back to Goku as a protagonist, which I think told a much better story due to him realizing it wasn't about one person but everyone working together, ya know, that why he used the spirit bomb, why he needed energy from earth and from those irrelevant characters.

If you have any critics of the Buu Saga with actual narrative grounds I'd like to hear them, because so far they seem to just stem from misunderstanding the story.

Things like Goten and Trunks are points I agree with, just about everyone wants them do something but beyond that I don't see any meat to the rest of those statements. Dragon Ball is the story of Goku, characters come and go throughout the story. And there is no 'writers', mostly just Toriyama and sometimes an editor.

Villains?

Uh, Vegeta was a saiyan elite looking to establish himself as the strongest while secretly vying for the dragon balls to wish for immortality to overthrow Frieza, Frieza is a galatic ruler who acts one part tryant one part buisnessman, Cell wants the perfect fight because of the saiyan cells within him as well as the fact his creator and everything related to that have been destroyed leaving him with literally no other purpose than the want a perfect fight. Buu is really the only 'ounga bounga blow up shit' villian, and even then he constantly switches from naive to sadistic to cunning to black air force. There aren't a ton of villains in Super, just opponents like Beerus, Hit, and Jiren. Zamasu loved the universe and wanted to cull the mortals from it so they'd stop ruining it. Moro literally feeds off planets to sustain himself, he's evil yeah, he is also the encapsulation of nearly every past villain, so he was written like that on purpose. Granolah wasn't a villain but he wanted to take revenge upon the saiyans and whatnot, and the heaters wanted to do the same, plus get rid of Frieza too, which is why that arc was about the cycle of violence and pride and how it manifests.

So uhh, if you have a point here beyond reductive framing, that'd be nice.

So far, your reason for thinking Dragon Ball lacks depth comes from not understanding the story it was trying to tell. From the line of examples you've given, you seem to prefer shows that are upfront about their complexity and depth, which is all well and good, but to say Dragon Ball has none of that after misunderstanding several core narrative threads from the shows later arcs like Cell and Buu just isn't a strong argument for Dragon Ball to not have any of the 'depth' you look for. Dragon Ball's depth isn't in your face, which if anything is more subtly than just about any of the shows you mentioned, not to saw they aren't all fantastic pieces of ficton.

The other stuff about the humor and the fights and the rating you'd give it are personal opinions, you are entitled to them, but everything else just isn't an accurate representation of Dragon Ball's story.
Click to expand...
Bro you literally misunderstood almost everything I said and you seem to be frustrated for no reason lol. Calm down bud, not gonna bother talking about it anymore since you seem to be offended.

XXBenShapiroXx said:
Just because Dragon Ball doesn't go 'ooh look at how complex and multi-layered I am, look at my mature thematic story telling' doesn't mean it doesn't have complexity or depth. Different interpretations of a story is all well and good until that interpretation is as reductive as possible.
Click to expand...
I literally said this....
 
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