-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
Braking
He/Him- 3,839
- 2,240
trust the process
- 15,706
- 11,448
So then, should we try and get multipliers accepted at some point?
The main point against a them is that Gohan went from being stomped by Cell to stomping him, which is sort of explained away by that Gohan was still holding back and not fighting to kill, as was explained by Android 16. SSJ2 wasn't the only reason Gohan started stomping Cell, but also because Gohan was finally giving it his all.
SSJ1's 50x multiplier is almost 1-for-1 with what happens in the Frieza fight. Goku's getting stomped by 50% Frieza in Kaio-Ken x20 to stomping Frieza, and even being superior to Frieza at 100% power. That's bare minimum a 40x multiplier for SSJ, and how hard Kaio-Ken Goku was being stomped by Frieza versus how hard SSJ Goku was stomping Frieza is enough to fill the rest of that gap.
As for SSJ3, I haven't seen the Buu Saga so I have no idea how well that holds up. Woops. But a 4x multiplier is both small enough and large enough that it should be reasonable either way.
I know this is more a DBZ thing and this is for DBS, but Super's the current canon Dragon Ball and there isn't really a Z discussion thread that I can find.
The main point against a them is that Gohan went from being stomped by Cell to stomping him, which is sort of explained away by that Gohan was still holding back and not fighting to kill, as was explained by Android 16. SSJ2 wasn't the only reason Gohan started stomping Cell, but also because Gohan was finally giving it his all.
SSJ1's 50x multiplier is almost 1-for-1 with what happens in the Frieza fight. Goku's getting stomped by 50% Frieza in Kaio-Ken x20 to stomping Frieza, and even being superior to Frieza at 100% power. That's bare minimum a 40x multiplier for SSJ, and how hard Kaio-Ken Goku was being stomped by Frieza versus how hard SSJ Goku was stomping Frieza is enough to fill the rest of that gap.
As for SSJ3, I haven't seen the Buu Saga so I have no idea how well that holds up. Woops. But a 4x multiplier is both small enough and large enough that it should be reasonable either way.
I know this is more a DBZ thing and this is for DBS, but Super's the current canon Dragon Ball and there isn't really a Z discussion thread that I can find.
- 6,632
- 6,816
The main reason that people are against the multipliers iirc is that the multipliers are only stated in the guidebooks while the manga hasn't referenced them.
Personally for me though, I don't see why we have to be so strict about it as long as it doesn't contradict the story. Other verses have used databook stated multipliers as well.
Personally for me though, I don't see why we have to be so strict about it as long as it doesn't contradict the story. Other verses have used databook stated multipliers as well.
- 6,828
- 6,711
Super Saiyan 2 is more than twice as strong as Super Saiyan considering Gohan using less than half of the form's full power is comparable to Super Perfect Cell, whose state is the Super Saiyan 2 equivalent of his Perfect Form, which far outclassed Gohan as a Super Saiyan (we use the same logic with Trunks being terrified of half of Super Saiyan Goku's power)
Super Saiyan 3 being four times stronger than Super Saiyan 2 isn't contradicted so I think it passes
Super Saiyan 3 being four times stronger than Super Saiyan 2 isn't contradicted so I think it passes
- 6,632
- 6,816
Iirc (I might be wrong) but I think in one of Null's revisions, he was arguing that Cell Saga Gohan is being amped by both SSJ2 and his rage, but I could've misunderstood.
- 6,828
- 6,711
That is not what Null said
- 6,828
- 6,711
Super Saiyan's multiplier comes from the same guidebooks that state Super Saiyan 2 and 3's multipliers yet we still use it
- 6,632
- 6,816
You're right, I went and checked through older threads. At least I couldn't find anything.
- 6,632
- 6,816
Yep, but I think it's because it's more supported because of the fight against Frieza where 20x Goku =< 50% Frieza while SSJ Goku was > 100% Frieza.
Someone should make a crt for Super Saiyan 3 to see.
- 6,828
- 6,711
Well I suppose that's fair
- 15,706
- 11,448
I mentioned this in my post, but Sixteen heavily implies Gohan was holding back to some extent up to that point.
- 957
- 1,300
SSJ2 Gohan overpowered Super Perfect Cell at less than half power. Super Perfect Cell>Perfect Cell>>>SSJ1 Gohan. So the SSJ2 multiplier is far higher than 2x.
- 6,828
- 6,711
Super Perfect Cell >>> Perfect Cell
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,251
- 14,623
SSJ2 multiplier onward is unqualifiable because it consistently above just simply x2. SSJ x50 multiplier was accepted because it consistently shown to multiplying power beyond Kaioken x20
- 6,828
- 6,711
We're using the logic of Gohan killing Cell while at less than half of his full power
- 15,706
- 11,448
- 821
- 566
Gohans rage amps might justify the increase in power beyond the supposed 2x multiplier
But we certainly need scans
SSB Goku getting angry vs Black and Zamasu , SS2 Vegeta vs Beerus
Both showcase rage boosts stacked on top of SSJ forms, so it’s not far from possibility that Gohan did the same back in cell saga, substantiating the idea that the massive gap is not just due to SS2s meager two times boost
But we certainly need scans
SSB Goku getting angry vs Black and Zamasu , SS2 Vegeta vs Beerus
Both showcase rage boosts stacked on top of SSJ forms, so it’s not far from possibility that Gohan did the same back in cell saga, substantiating the idea that the massive gap is not just due to SS2s meager two times boost
Last edited:
- 6,828
- 6,711
Super Saiyan 2 was already Gohan's rage amp finally manifesting in full so no
That and he was pretty nonchalant for most of the fight
That and he was pretty nonchalant for most of the fight
- 821
- 566
That’s highly unlikely since Gohan was tapping into rage power before he even unlocked SS1, Goku and Vegeta getting anger amps over their SS forms points towards it being a different mechanic besides the transformations.
- 6,828
- 6,711
It was outright stated that Super Saiyan 2 was Gohan's true power manifesting in full due to his rage, which had only happened in mere instances up until then
- 2,127
- 1,726
This site has made a discussion rule about daizenshu being contradictory albeit only to cosmology but largely depicts it as a non viable source of information.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,551
- 1,788
- 2,127
- 1,726
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,146
- 9,110
Actuate, low 1-C vs 2-A
speedster352
He/Him- 17,551
- 1,788
Trunks can be scaled to high complex multiversal but just on this wiki. Also death battle does it again
- 6,582
- 8,957
High Complex Multiversal? I think most would agree that 5-D is the reasonable high end, so what in DBH's cosmology could grant it a High 1-C tier?
speedster352
He/Him- 17,551
- 1,788
- 6,582
- 8,957
Buddy that's all just Low 1-C stuff going by our standards, stuff that I might is what a lot of people on here disagree with being tier 1 at all.
Also why are you using CSaPW? They aren't VBW and have radically different standards
Also why are you using CSaPW? They aren't VBW and have radically different standards
- 5,805
- 3,267
That's a nice dream
- 15,474
- 22,567
- 821
- 566
Doesnt EML say something about Grade 3 SS being a 10x amp to raw power but a decrease in speed?
the fact that SS2 can make Cell Vomit 18 with a kick despite using a similar form makes it more likely that it is indeed a boost over 10 larger than SS at least in that department.
the fact that SS2 can make Cell Vomit 18 with a kick despite using a similar form makes it more likely that it is indeed a boost over 10 larger than SS at least in that department.
speedster352
He/Him- 17,551
- 1,788
That’s where he scales on a different wiki
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,371
- 3,874
That's not accepted
- 6,582
- 8,957
And? CSaPW=/=VBW so where he scales on another wiki doesn't matter here
speedster352
He/Him- 17,551
- 1,788
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,729
- 17,762
Similar threads
