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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Huh so the DBZ wiki says that FPSSJ is comparable in strength to the 3rd Grade SSJ just without the negative effects
 
Last edited:
BlackeJan said:
Huh so the DBZ wiki says that FPSSJ is comparable in strength to the 3rd Grade SSJ just without the negative effects
Click to expand...
It’d make more sense narratively speaking with the in-universe info we are given MSSJ being an effectively higher multiplier above SSJ thanks to lack of stamina issues lines up with the whole ‘surpassing’ SSJ goal of everyone at that point, plus manga DBS shows that for some ******* reason Mastered Blue which is just the SSJ form of God is much stronger despite there being no apparent changes to base power.
 
BlackeJan said:
Huh so the DBZ wiki says that FPSSJ is comparable in strength to the 3rd Grade SSJ just without the negative effects
Click to expand...
Dragon Ball GT: La Revista Oficial.
AguilaR202 said:
plus manga DBS shows that for some ******* reason Mastered Blue which is just the SSJ form of God is much stronger despite there being no apparent changes to base power.
Click to expand...
Perfected Blue is leagues more powerful than standard Blue because Perfected Blue draws out 100% of Blue's power continuously, whereas standard Blue suffers from a continuous energy drain dangerous enough to make Vegeta, after showing off the form once for Cabba, weaker than Super Saiyan God Goku.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Dragon Ball GT: La Revista Oficial.

Perfected Blue is leagues more powerful than standard Blue because Perfected Blue draws out 100% of Blue's power continuously, whereas standard Blue suffers from a continuous energy drain dangerous enough to make Vegeta, after showing off the form once for Cabba, weaker than Super Saiyan God Goku.
Click to expand...
That’d make sense if Goku and Vegeta hadn’t gotten their blues btfo instantly as soon as they transformed, Vegeta trained specifically to overcome that weakness and maximized his blue power by keeping himself as SSG then turning blue to strike. Yet when he first attacks Zamasu as SSB his attack is easily dodged and he gets one shot, Goku as well during that scene in spite of the fact that was first time he went blue in that fight.

So it really means that either normal blue is so crap tier it’s power drops below its maximum 50x over SSG output before the first punch even connects or that PSSB is just outright stronger.
 
AguilaR202 said:
normal blue is so crap tier it’s power drops below its maximum 50x over SSG output before the first punch even connects
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Is Oozaru accepted as an all around 10x boost

I mean obviously during the time we saw it used in Vegetas fight he obviously wasn’t operating at full power to where he was 10x stronger than his initial 18,000 PL.

There are plenty of points not being analyzed for it not to be

Vegeta was weakened
An angry Gohan could put up a fight against him as soon as he detransformed, Gohans peak at that moment when angered was inferior to a casual Nappa who smacked his masenko with a punch, around 3000 at best was the scouter reading for Gohan at his peak anger.

Goku could react with a KHH to nappas mouth beam after it was fired, something vegeta found unbelievable from such a close distance.

Goku who was halfway into throwing the SB couldn’t even manage to launch it when Oozaru Vegeta used his mouthblast even though the latter was much much further away from him

Goku estimates that even a KK5 wouldn’t do him any good vs Oozaru Vegeta implying the Oozaru amp is equiparable to Kaioken to some extent.

The Oozarus size being at least 10x larger than Goku can be factored in, as the speed increase would be offset somewhat by the large size.

Any punch and kick Vegeta performs he has cover 10x the distance he normally would as well, beams wouldn’t be affected by this as demonstrated when he blitzed Goku from ~100s of meters away the former halfway into launching the spirit bomb.
 
AguilaR202 said:
Is Oozaru accepted as an all around 10x boost

I mean obviously during the time we saw it used in Vegetas fight he obviously wasn’t operating at full power to where he was 10x stronger than his initial 18,000 PL.

There are plenty of points not being analyzed for it not to be

Vegeta was weakened
An angry Gohan could put up a fight against him as soon as he detransformed, Gohans peak at that moment when angered was inferior to a casual Nappa who smacked his masenko with a punch, around 3000 at best was the scouter reading for Gohan at his peak anger.

Goku could react with a KHH to nappas mouth beam after it was fired, something vegeta found unbelievable from such a close distance.

Goku who was halfway into throwing the SB couldn’t even manage to launch it when Oozaru Vegeta used his mouthblast even though the latter was much much further away from him

Goku estimates that even a KK5 wouldn’t do him any good vs Oozaru Vegeta implying the Oozaru amp is equiparable to Kaioken to some extent.

The Oozarus size being at least 10x larger than Goku can be factored in, as the speed increase would be offset somewhat by the large size.

Any punch and kick Vegeta performs he has cover 10x the distance he normally would as well, beams wouldn’t be affected by this as demonstrated when he blitzed Goku from ~100s of meters away the former halfway into launching the spirit bomb.
Click to expand...
The multipliers are generally not accepted, with the exception of Kaioken (for obvious reasons) and Super Saiyan being 50x. The reasoning is because we only have guidebook statements (which is considered one of the weakest forms of evidence), the multipliers are "inconsistent" (I still heavily disagree with this, though for new reasons), and because multipliers are really treated with caution on vs wiki. The fact that even Super Saiyan being a 50x multiplier was accepted is honestly lucky, and that took a lot of CRT's before it happened.

Oozaru is not accepted as a straight 10x boost, and it probably never will be, to be honest.
 
RinneItachi said:
The multipliers are generally not accepted, with the exception of Kaioken (for obvious reasons) and Super Saiyan being 50x. The reasoning is because we only have guidebook statements (which is considered one of the weakest forms of evidence), the multipliers are "inconsistent" (I still heavily disagree with this, though for new reasons), and because multipliers are really treated with caution on vs wiki. The fact that even Super Saiyan being a 50x multiplier was accepted is honestly lucky, and that took a lot of CRT's before it happened.

Oozaru is not accepted as a straight 10x boost, and it probably never will be, to be honest.
Click to expand...

Yeah but there is hard evidence and direct comparisons to KK in Ozarus case, if Vegeta drops around Gohans level which is two tiers below base Goku in the scaling chain it being an equivalent of a KK5 is at the very least warranted as this is what Goku estimates wouldn’t be enough.

Gohan < Casual Nappa< Goku ~ Nappa.
Gohan < Vegeta ( weakened) < Casual Nappa
 
In what regard? That's kind of vague. Do you mean things like Gohan vs Freeza in RoF and the whole thing with Ultimate Gohan there? Do you mean scaling Granolah to Saiyan arc Krillin?
 
Obviously, the two versions of Super are allowed to scale off of the original manga, as they are both sequels. But pages based on the original manga should not reference Super.
 
Planet Vegetas destruction happens in canon either way, it’s just that it’s off screen and not seen outside toei anime and DBS broly.

Its not like taking either interpretation of the feat conflicts with the original mangas portrayal as it happens off screen either way.
 
If it's just for the Planet Vegeta thing effectively, then who actually ******* cares outside of arbitrarily upgrading or downgrading it. Probably the latter in this case, but I don't really know which scaling would be used otherwise.

If it's the best showing of the feat that could feasibly be used to argue some kind of canonicity to it, then I don't really see a point of disconnecting them.
 
SuperKamiNappa said:
Do we know how strong Trunks was at the time? He almost certainly got stronger between fighting Dabura and the Goku Black saga.
Click to expand...
The manga portrays Trunks as being able to wield the Z-Sword as masterfully as a late-game Gohan did, with the following scene even mirroring "The Zeta Sword". That would require him to be At least High 4-C and would result in his Super Saiyan form being 4-B, which is consistent with his numerous encounters with Goku Black. At the same time, however, because Dabura was able to effortlessly pressure Super Saiyan Trunks, he would upscales from 4-B, which is inconsistent with the scaling chain of the original series.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The manga portrays Trunks as being able to wield the Z-Sword as masterfully as a late-game Gohan did, with the following scene even mirroring "The Zeta Sword". That would require him to be At least High 4-C and would result in his Super Saiyan form being 4-B, which is consistent with his numerous encounters with Goku Black. At the same time, however, because Dabura was able to effortlessly pressure Super Saiyan Trunks, he would upscales from 4-B, which is inconsistent with the scaling chain of the original series.
Click to expand...
Probably the fact that the FT buu saga takes place 20 years later than normal is enough to disregard retroactive scaling, that Dabura
could be stronger for all we know.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The manga portrays Trunks as being able to wield the Z-Sword as masterfully as a late-game Gohan did, with the following scene even mirroring "The Zeta Sword". That would require him to be At least High 4-C and would result in his Super Saiyan form being 4-B, which is consistent with his numerous encounters with Goku Black. At the same time, however, because Dabura was able to effortlessly pressure Super Saiyan Trunks, he would upscales from 4-B, which is inconsistent with the scaling chain of the original series.
Click to expand...
That was before the 1 year of fighting goku black tho
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The manga portrays Trunks as being able to wield the Z-Sword as masterfully as a late-game Gohan did, with the following scene even mirroring "The Zeta Sword". That would require him to be At least High 4-C and would result in his Super Saiyan form being 4-B, which is consistent with his numerous encounters with Goku Black. At the same time, however, because Dabura was able to effortlessly pressure Super Saiyan Trunks, he would upscales from 4-B, which is inconsistent with the scaling chain of the original series.
Click to expand...
Gohan isn't 4-B in Super Saiyan
 
Coolboy6 said:
Could we try upgrading Dabura, Cell and maybe Goku and Gohan during the Cell saga to make Dabura fighting SSJ Trunks more consistent?
Click to expand...
It throws off the scaling, did Dabura look 50x stronger than Gohan during their fight?

That is how much stronger Gohan got from Z sword training.
 
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