Dragon Ball MWI undoing continuation thread

[LordDestroit10K]

That will mean the world of the Kais is still inside the universe though. Hell, that will heavily means it ain’t that separate for the souls at least.

The fact they can teleport at anywhere in the universe. Also Goku did brought up the fact they will need a spaceship to get to Namek (which they later on just decided to do the teleportation).

Also I don’t remember if Majin Buu actually teleport as if he has, he will demonstrate it on screen rather than off screen.

It is still worth a mention that it is true Bidi’s (Shortened his name) magic allows to teleport, but that will very heavily implied they can teleport at anytime in the universe anyway

Yeah, “inside the universe”

 

[TiltedFN]

That will mean the world of the Kais is still inside the universe though. Hell, that will heavily means it ain’t that separate for the souls at least.

The fact they can teleport at anywhere in the universe. Also Goku did brought up the fact they will need a spaceship to get to Namek (which they later on just decided to do the teleportation).

Also I don’t remember if Majin Buu actually teleport as if he has, he will demonstrate it on screen rather than off screen.

It is still worth a mention that it is true Bidi’s (Shortened his name) magic allows to teleport, but that will very heavily implied they can teleport at anytime in the universe anyway

Its not like souls literally just physically fly to thw afterlife, they get transported there. What are you even on about? Goku said there arent any spaceships left because earth got blown up, which means they couldnt go to namek from earth, earth had the spaceships. His IT was inferior which is why supreme kai brought up his, he doesnt need a ki signature. Why are we stilm arguing spatialtemporal separation of the realms, this getting very tiresome.

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah, “inside the universe”

Obligatory model vs actual showings post #869

 

[RedReaper616]

That will mean the world of the Kais is still inside the universe though. Hell, that will heavily means it ain’t that separate for the souls at least.

Uh…no? When Vegeta is revived, he also restores on the WotK. Because he has his physical body. Just as Frieza did in DBS. Old Kai literally just speedran the special-case “keep body” scenario.

The fact they can teleport at anywhere in the universe. Also Goku did brought up the fact they will need a spaceship to get to Namek (which they later on just decided to do the teleportation).

The WotK can only be accessed via teleportation, so no, teleporting to it is not an anti-feat. Goku said that because he can’t get to Namek via IT. It’s Ki signatures are beyond him.

Also I don’t remember if Majin Buu actually teleport as if he has, he will demonstrate it on screen rather than off screen.

He does. He explicitly copied Kai Kai.

It is still worth a mention that it is true Bidi’s (Shortened his name) magic allows to teleport, but that will very heavily implied they can teleport at anytime in the universe anyway

Don’t see how this is relevant.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah, “inside the universe”

Using a model

Has posted evidence of people getting literally teleported from the Afterlife to other locations in the universe.

That will still invoke the massive distance between Other World and any other locations in the universe though

 

[Chariot190]

If the model is so accurate, why does the anime **** up something so simple as WotK having a bunch of suns, with mere moons
Damn it's almost like the anime, has contradictions for even the obvious things.

The WotK can only be accessed via teleportation, so no, teleporting to it is not an anti-fear. Goku said that because he can’t get to Namek via IT. It’s Ki signatures are beyond him.

Do they, at any point, actually say that?
I mean it's wrong anyway because Vados flew there with Warp so it isn't ONLY teleportation regardless.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Uh…no? When Vegeta is revived, he also restores on the WotK. Because he has his physical body. Just as Frieza did in DBS. Old Kai literally just speedran the special-case “keep body” scenario.

The WotK can only be accessed via teleportation, so no, teleporting to it is not an anti-feat. Goku said that because he can’t get to Namek via IT. It’s Ki signatures are beyond him.

He does. He explicitly copied Kai Kai.

Don’t see how this is relevant.

Here is the thing about this. Teleportation is still involved transporting a person body to different locations ignoring the distance and skip the hassle of physically traveling to a intended destination so even if I give this a benefit of the doubt, it used to bypass the physical limitations of getting to their intended destination

 

[RedReaper616]

Do they, at any point, actually say that?

It’s stated multiple times within guides.

I mean it's wrong anyway because Vados flew there with Warp so it isn't ONLY teleportation regardless.

Angels’ Warp ability isn’t basic flight. It allows travel between Universes, (Vados going across U6 and U7, Whis going to U10), which we know isn’t typically physically possible due to the box transport Hit wanted in U6vU7. So Angels moving there is not an Anti-Feat.

 

[LordDestroit10K]

Now people are talking about Kaioshin Realm (using Toei stuff when this thread is about Manga/DBS anime), and talking again and again about spatio-temporal separation for realms when that’s already accepted in this wiki. I’m getting tired

 

[RedReaper616]

Here is the thing about this. Teleportation is still involved transporting a person body to different locations ignoring the distance and skip the hassle of physically traveling to a intended destination so even if I give this a benefit of the doubt, it used to bypass the physical limitations of getting to their intended destination

Teleportation is fully capable of being interdimensional. So not a limitation by any means.

 

[Chariot190]

It’s stated multiple times within guides.

My brother in christ

Angels’ Warp ability isn’t basic flight. It allows travel between Universes, (Vados going across U6 and U7, Whis going to U10), which we know isn’t typically physically possible due to the box transport Hit wanted in U6vU7. So Angels moving there is not an Anti-Feat.

And? It also isn't teleportation, I'm aware of the caveats, it's why I've never brought it up as a fucky for any canon, but it would be a fucky to "only teleportation", because like, it ain't.

 

[RedReaper616]

And? It also isn't teleportation, 'm aware of the caveats, it's why I've never brought it up as a fucky for any canon, but it would be a fucky to "only teleportation", because like, it ain't.

It allows travel through the Multiverse. Separate Space Times. Universes. Some would say this could be interpreted as travel between dimensions. As in, their travel is a specialized dimensional travel effect identical to teleportation, except requiring traveling time instead of being instant. So no, not a “fucky.”

 

[Omegabronic]

It allows travel through the Multiverse. Separate Space Times. Universes. Some would say this could be interpreted as travel between dimensions. As in, their travel is a specialized dimensional travel effect identical to teleportation, except requiring traveling time instead of being instant. So no, not a “fucky.”

I mean.....if the statement is "it can only be accessed with teleportation" and a character gets there without using teleportation then......the statement is contradictef either way

 

[Chariot190]

Now people are talking about Kaioshin Realm (using Toei stuff when this thread is about Manga/DBS anime),

idk why either, Toei is fine on all accounts

and talking again and again about spatio-temporal separation for realms when that’s already accepted in this wiki. I’m getting tired

That's what the CRT is for no? Changing what's accepted.

It allows travel through the Multiverse. Separate Space Times. Universes. Some would say this could be interpreted as travel between dimensions. As in, their travel is a specialized dimensional travel effect identical to teleportation, except requiring traveling time instead of being instant. So no, not a “fucky.”

"Only teleportation"
"Except this nonteleportation technique"
let's not get into the issue of travel time in regards to a dimension apparently in a 5D ass void btw

Anyway, I'm asking you, where, exactly, in the source material, specifically that of DBS(A), does it state the only method to enter WotK, is via teleportation (or dimensional travel ig).

 

[HammerStrikes219]

idk why either, Toei is fine on all accounts

That's what the CRT is for no? Changing what's accepted.

"Only teleportation"
"Except this nonteleportation technique"
let's not get into the issue of travel time in regards to a dimension apparently in a 5D ass void btw

Anyway, I'm asking you, where, exactly, in the source material, specifically that of DBS(A), does it state the only method to enter WotK, is via teleportation.

Not to mention DBS Super is animated by Toei so yeah

 

[Omegabronic]

Now people are talking about Kaioshin Realm (using Toei stuff when this thread is about Manga/DBS anime), and talking again and again about spatio-temporal separation for realms when that’s already accepted in this wiki. I’m getting tired

The SS shenron scene kind of has a problem with the space time part, but since this thread is about size and is 15 pages long, i will leave that for a final final thread after this one is done

Just a heads up

 

[LordDestroit10K]

I mean.....if the statement is "it can only be accessed with teleportation" and a character gets there without using teleportation then......the statement is contradictef either way

Daizenshu 7 / Chozenshuu 4 already states “using teleportation or special abilities”, what are you trying to do?

 

[Omegabronic]

Daizenshu 7 / Chozenshuu 4 already states “using teleportation or special abilities”, what are you trying to do?

why act as if such statement was brought up before for me to know?
that would solve things, can you show it?

 

[RedReaper616]

"Only teleportation"
"Except this nonteleportation technique"
let's not get into the issue of travel time in regards to a dimension apparently in a 5D ass void btw

The Angels warp functions as teleportation with travel time by all accounts. Trying to classify it as anything but is disingenuous and nitpicky to the eleventh degree.

Anyway, I'm asking you, where, exactly, in the source material, specifically that of DBS(A), does it state the only method to enter WotK, is via teleportation (or dimensional travel ig).

It isn’t, but we both know this is the intent behind the WotK, and attempting to use Angels as an Anti-Feat doesn’t function.

 

[Chariot190]

it wouldnt solve anything tho, Toei is fine, Manga is fine, DBSA is the medium with a bunch of contradictions yet no evidence within it to offset the blatant discrepancies. Daizenshu is only helping out the mediums we already know

The Angels warp functions as teleportation with travel time by all accounts. Trying to classify it as anything but is disingenuous and nitpicky to the eleventh degree.

Hey you said teleport, it ain't teleport, and when talking about an alleged pocket realm floating in an alleged 5D void, travel time becomes problematic.

It isn’t, but we both know this is the intent behind the WotK, and attempting to use Angels as an Anti-Feat doesn’t function.

I don't give a shit what the "intent" is, if they show and act differently, then it's different. The intent is also for the planet to have a bunch of suns, yet the anime depicts them as moons, what does that mean? It means they're moons in the anime, not suns, because that's what they're depicted and shown as, and we're not gonna just pretend they're not moons because "guide/model shows diff", same applies to everything else.

Guides don't matter, interviews don't matter, it's supplementary for good reason, we have standards for this. If the DBS anime, has discrepancies, then that shit can not be used for it, end of, this applies to quite literally EVERY verse on the wiki. Does that mean it can't be used for the manga or Toei? As long as it isn't contradicted, it should be fine, and if it's corroborated, even better, but that isn't the anime.

 

[LordDestroit10K]

It means they're moons in the anime, not suns,

Now we’re talking about moons and suns. Nah, incredible

 

[Chariot190]

Now we’re talking about moons and suns. Nah, incredible

If you're incapable of grasping the point, that's a personal issue.

 

[RedReaper616]

it wouldnt solve anything tho, Toei is fine, Manga is fine, DBSA is the medium with a bunch of contradictions yet no evidence within it to offset the blatant discrepancies. Daizenshu is only helping out the mediums we already know

Hey you said teleport, it ain't teleport, and when talking about an alleged pocket realm floating in an alleged 5D void, travel time becomes problematic.

It is teleport with extra steps. So still teleport.

I don't give a shit what the "intent" is, if they show and act differently, then it's different. The intent is also for the planet to have a bunch of suns, yet the anime depicts them as moons, what does that mean? It means they're moons in the anime, not suns, because that's what they're depicted and shown as, and we're not gonna just pretend they're not moons because "guide/model shows diff", same applies to everything else.

Guides don't matter, interviews don't matter, it's supplementary for good reason, we have standards for this. If the DBS anime, has discrepancies, then that shit can not be used for it, end of, this applies to quite literally EVERY verse on the wiki. Does that mean it can't be used for the manga or Toei? As long as it isn't contradicted, it should be fine, and if it's corroborated, even better, but that isn't the anime.

One, that argument is circular because it’s literally the only reason you’re stonewalling other mediums that take place in what is meant to be an identical setting, the author’s intent, guides, the fact it’s an outlier, etc. Two, we already had this debate, and I genuinely don’t care. I’m just clarifying that the Angels objectively don’t qualify as a contradiction. Arguing they do is blatantly incorrect.

 

[LordDestroit10K]

If you're incapable of grasping the point, that's a personal issue.

If you are unable to understand the irony, then it's your problem.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Pretty sure even in toei we see moons surrounding the kaioshin planet so heck in contrasts we could argue that depiction of kaioshin realm is similar to toei

Also the multiple suns could simply just be far off

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Now we’re talking about moons and suns. Nah, incredible

Honestly, I don't know what the calculator guy is getting at, since these issues have been dealt with in several topics, it's explicitly mentioned in Whis' profile dimensional travel and teleportation, to date it's only been shown accessing these realms through special abilities manga, anime, guide, derivative works and anything related to DB, it's simply not possible to go to other dimensions without having special abilities.

 

[RedReaper616]

Pretty sure even in toei we see moon surrounding the kaioshin planet so heck in contrasts we could argue that depiction of kaioshin realm is similar to toei

Also the multiple suns could simply just be far off

This is actually implied in guide. It states “some of which are shown as moons in the anime,” implying that in the anime is it surrounded by Stars and Moons.

 

[Chariot190]

It is teleport with extra steps. So still teleport.

Then it isnt

One, that argument is circular because it’s literally the only reason you’re stonewalling other mediums that take place in what is meant to be an identical setting,

No it isn't? It's "hey DBSa has a bunch of contradictions, that exist within that medium, but no real evidence of adhering to the alleged model".

Do you people not know what a contradiction is? "Identical setting", and yet it's shown to be different multiple times, so it isn't.

the author’s intent

Doesn't matter, he didn't make the anime. And authorial intent comes second to what's actually shown.

, guides

Dont matter if contradicted by the actual material.

, the fact it’s an outlier,

Happens multiple times, with various support and other discrepancies, yet zero evidence of the model being adhered to within that canon.

etc. Two, we already had this debate, and I genuinely don’t care.

Yeah, we have, you're arguing against wiki standards at this point, not me.

I’m just clarifying that the Angels objectively don’t qualify as a contradiction. Arguing they do is blatantly incorrect.

Then word your arguments better.

If you are unable to understand the irony, then it's your problem.

Are you saying they're actually suns then? Because the point was that the anime can, and has, contradicted the very basis of your argument for even the most obvious things. Yet we don't pretend they're not moons because the guides say they're suns, they're simply moons now in the anime, despite what any model or guide shows.

We don't act like they're any different, why pretend otherwise for this?

Pretty sure even in toei we see moons surrounding the kaioshin planet so heck in contrasts we could argue that depiction of kaioshin realm is similar to toei

Yes, they're moons in toei too. Fortunately, that's the only fucky Toei has.

Also the multiple suns could simply just be far off

We get zoomed out planet shots, the moons def the "suns".

 

[Chariot190]

This is actually implied in guide. It states “some of which are shown as moons in the anime,” implying that in the anime is it surrounded by Stars and Moons.

"in the anime", so confirmed actual discrepancy between what the manga and Akira intended and the anime. Not exactly helping your case.

And we get a full huge zoom out twice, massive moons, but not one sun.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Then it isnt

No it isn't? It's "hey DBSa has a bunch of contradictions, that exist within that medium, but no real evidence of adhering to the alleged model".

Do you people not know what a contradiction is? "Identical setting", and yet it's shown to be different multiple times, so it isn't.


Doesn't matter, he didn't make the anime. And authorial intent comes second to what's actually shown.

Dont matter if contradicted by the actual material.

Happens multiple times, with various support and other discrepancies, yet zero evidence of the model being adhered to within that canon.

Yeah, we have, you're arguing against wiki standards at this point, not me.

Then word your arguments better.

Are you saying they're actually suns then? Because the point was that the anime can, and has, contradicted the very basis of your argument for even the most obvious things. Yet we don't pretend they're not moons because the guides say they're suns, they're simply moons now in the anime, despite what any model or guide shows.

We don't act like they're any different, why pretend otherwise for this?

Yes, they're moons in toei too. Fortunately, that's the only fucky Toei has.

We get zoomed out planet shots, the moons def the "suns".

A place 1/10 of the universe is pretty big so stars can be located at a very far off places hell even the guides confirm this that just means anime is being true to what toei has shown also the supreme Kai vision doesn't show us the full vision of kaioshin realm

 

[RedReaper616]

Happens multiple times, with various support and other discrepancies, yet zero evidence of the model being adhered to within that canon.

When? What other moment do we get an “unabstracted,” universal showing? Because Whis and the Zenos are simplified spheres, not the great large expanse from Super Shenron.

 

[Chariot190]

A place 1/10 of the universe is pretty big so stars can be located at a very far off places hell even the guides confirm this just means anime is being true to what toei has shown

Dude, the stars are like, the size of a chunk of the planet, we SEE them in the manga and the model ya'll keep talking about.

We know the suns are, at least in the manga/guides, what the "moons" are.
We ALSO get full zoomed out shots of the planet in the anime, and the things that are "the suns", in the guide/manga, are ALL moons, huge ass galaxy sized moons my dude.

 

[Killerdrone123]

Dude, the stars are like, the size of a chunk of the planet, we SEE them in the manga and the model ya'll keep talking about.

We know the suns are, at least in the manga/guides, what the "moons" are.
We ALSO get full zoomed out shots of the planet in the anime, and the things that are "the suns", in the guide/manga, are ALL moons, huge ass galaxy sized moons my dude.

So now suddenly the map you were against for using it for scaling it to size has become reliable aye to support your point also like I said shit could have been really far off for all we know like millions of light years away and there could be only one star present there to illuminate the Kai planet it is not like we 360 degree view from the old Kai perspective

 

[Chariot190]

When? What other moment do we get an “unabstracted,” universal showing? Because Whis and the Zenos are simplified spheres, not the great large expanse from Super Shenron.

Except, those corroborate the SS showing?

Do you not get that? SS shows the universe as beeg uni sphere. This depiction, is the same as Zeno's/Whis'.
Yet no example of the model exists in the anime, unlike the manga.

Whis and Zeno then become "not simplified depictions" but "literally just the same thing", for a 3-0 for the anime
also we get a bunch of cool space pans and zooms early dbs but we've went over that like 4 times.

The issue, here, is that you're conflating cosmologies when we LITERALLY just decomposited them.

 

[LordDestroit10K]

So now suddenly the map you were against for using it for scaling it to size has become reliable aye to support your point also like I saidshit could have been really far off for all we know like millions of light years away

These counter arguments are getting funnier

 

[Chariot190]

So now suddenly the map you were against for using it for scaling it to size has become reliable aye to support your point

Uh, yeah? If you're using the ******* model, the very premise of your arguments, then tough shit, but hey, it's suns.

And why ignore the fact we literally see them in zoom out shots?

If the model wrong there, then good god, why even attempt to use it? It's evidently super inaccurate.

also like I saidshit could have been really far off for all we know like millions of light years away

Yeah, they ARE. The planet itself just happens to be like a billion lightyears wide though.

Nice strawman my dude, we SEE the suns in the manga, they orbit the planet.
In the anime, they're all moons. A blatant contradiction.

 

[RedReaper616]

Except, those corroborate the SS showing?

Do you not get that? SS shows the universe as beeg uni sphere. This depiction, is the same as Zeno's/Whis'.
Yet no example of the model exists in the anime, unlike the manga.

Whis and Zeno then become "not simplified depictions" but "literally just the same thing", for a 3-0 for the anime
also we get a bunch of cool space pans and zooms early dbs but we've went over that like 4 times.

Sir. They’re used, identically, in the Manga despite the fact we know their universes look like the model. Null has clarified this in the discussion thread. Furthermore, if size mattered so much that Snake Way turns a literal model (as seen in DBS Manga) into an “abstraction,” then the fact it doesn’t accurately represent any of the other visually apparent celestial objects outside of the big **** all Galaxy would make them simplified still. An abstraction. So no, Whis and Zeno do not qualify as “exactly the same thing.”

 

[Killerdrone123]

Uh, yeah? If you're using the ******* model, the very premise of your arguments, then tough shit, but hey, it's suns.

And why ignore the fact we literally see them in zoom out shots?

If the model wrong there, then good god, why even attempt to use it? It's evidently super inaccurate.

Yeah, they ARE. The planet itself just happens to be like a billion lightyears wide though.

Nice strawman my dude, we SEE the suns in the manga, they orbit the planet.
In the anime, they're all moons. A blatant contradiction.

Dude we are going in circles like I already said if you are saying the macrocosm map doesn't show the actual size then the distance between the planet and the star could be far greater then what we see in the map also from supreme Kai view we can see many celestial bodies so some of them could be the ones which are close are moons that's the simplest way to explain the situation it is not like we get a 360 degree view or full view of the kaioshin realm

 

[Chariot190]

I feel like all of you are unable to grasp the point.

The anime and manga have a blatant discrepancy, not only with the model, but the intent behind a basic cosmological feature. Despite this, we dont treat the anime differently from shown. It's a difference, we accept it as such because it's what we see.

Sir. They’re used, identically, in the Manga despite the fact we know their universes look like the model.

Yes, except, unlike the manga, the anime corroborates it hard confirming thats what they look like. Do you not understand that?

Null has clarified this in the discussion thread. Furthermore, if size mattered so much that Snake Way turns a literal model (as seen in DBS Manga) into an “abstraction,” then the fact it doesn’t accurately represent any of the other visually apparent celestial objects outside of the big **** all Galaxy would make them simplified still. An abstraction. So no, Whis and Zeno do not qualify as “exactly the same thing.”

Except, it's hard confirmed by the SS scene

Like do you not understand WHY it's contradiction to the model in the first place?
"It isnt like the model so-", yeah no shit, hence the argument

 

[Nullflowerblush]

It is teleport with extra steps. So still teleport.

I mean, if the Chouzenshuu is anything to go off, then Warp is just really fast spaceflight.