Dragon Ball: Infinite Universe

[Robo432343]

the scan straight up doesn't say that, show me when it says that the darkness specifically is the infinite thing

i think its this one

 

[Robo432343]

So most of these scans are from a retconned daizenshuu which is not written by Toriyama and was in the 20th century before Super was even a thing do not prove an infinite universe.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Stop the derailment, this subject has been discussed in other threads later and here on the second page, you are just endless derailment, we need the admins and moderators to see all CRT, so I ask that you please don't comment anymore.

 

[Omegabronic]

just want to say that there is no greater darkness around the universe when we see it from outside

this is a consistent thing if people are curious

 

[Xxiaa]

dawg i watched it in other anime sites and it still says space is vast

Crunchyroll translation says space is vast so I think you’re correct.


“Hey Shenron, tell us where the last super dragon ball in universe 7 is”


“ I can’t”


“Space is Vast”

“Finding a single thing in the universe is not within my powers”

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So most of these scans are from a retconned daizenshuu which is not written by Toriyama and was in the 20th century before Super was even a thing do not prove an infinite universe.

Stop making up lies, a certain guide is from dbs it is mentioned the same thing, there is no need to create this turmoil all about the guide, besides him revising all daizenshuu and making another one again, things still remain the same.

 

[Deagonx]

Even if it was just the universe infinitely expanding. We have so much more evidence of the universe just straight up being infinite that just one scan of saying infinitely expanding would be the one discarded.

But there are multiple scans about expansion in the OP

So most of these scans are from a retconned daizenshuu which is not written by Toriyama and was in the 20th century before Super was even a thing do not prove an infinite universe.

Forreal? Good grief.

 

[Robo432343]

Stop making up lies, a certain guide is from dbs it is mentioned the same thing, there is no need to create this turmoil all about the guide, besides him revising all daizenshuu and making another one again, things still remain the same.

Thats whats being contested

 

[Robo432343]

Crunchyroll translation says space is vast so I think you’re correct.


“Hey Shenron, tell us where the last super dragon ball in universe 7 is”


“ I can’t”


“Space is Vast”

“Finding a single thing in the universe is not within my powers”

so there are 3 websites that say, "space is vast". ok

 

[Xxiaa]

so there are 3 websites that say, "space is vast". ok

Really the only ones that matter are the sites with the official license to stream stuff like Dragon ball which crunchyroll does.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

But there are multiple scans about expansion in the OP

That's why it seems to be talking about the expanding of lights

Also all the newer information such as chozenshu says it is boundless. Super seems to say boundless. There also seems to be a shared cosmology with GT as places such as Sugoroku Space and Time Chamber are said to be areas that are between dimensions in chozenshu.

 

[DivineAura44]

i keep seeing alot of infinitely expanding scans.

"If we assume the universe is infinite, then it's not really expanding into anything. Because the universe's size is already infinite, its size can't increase. So essentially, if the universe is of infinite magnitude, it cannot possibly be expanding into anything."

How is the db universe infinite if it is literally expanding??

Infinite size and infinitely expanding are not mutually exclusive, stop this tired ass argument, it's been done to death. Feel like you've been debating just to for a while now.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Infinite size and infinitely expanding are not mutually exclusive, stop this tired ass argument, it's been done to death. Feel like you've been debating just to for a while now.

Fiction moment

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Really the only ones that matter are the sites with the official license to stream stuff like Dragon ball which crunchyroll does.

We have been saying to wait for a translation. Official translations can get things wrong or just simplify it. The unofficial one can get things wrong as well but I'm more inclined to believe it as it uses same word or suffix that would indicate something without bounds or end and the dub also gives boundless.

 

[Deagonx]

That's why it seems to be talking about the expanding of lights

No... it doesn't. Sorry, but like, it literally doesn't at all.

The infinitely expanding universe is determined mainly by the direction that each king manages

Infinitely expanding and galaxy illuminations, Ten of thousands of light years.. Hundreds of millions of light years.. Countless unknown aliens monsters live beyond stars where light cannot reach.

The only reference to "light" other than light years just says that aliens live beyond stars where light cannot reach, nothing about an infinite darkness + infinitely expanding light.

And the scan that just says its infinite references both

"An infinite space of light and darkness where the unknown lives"

We are imagining a dichotomy that doesn't exist in order to reconcile clear contradictions in the evidence in such a way that supports a higher tier, arbitrarily IMO.

 

[Xxiaa]

We have been saying to wait for a translation. Official translations can get things wrong or just simplify it. The unofficial one can get things wrong as well but I'm more inclined to believe it as it uses same word or suffix that would indicate something without bounds or end and the dub also gives boundless.

Someone has the raw text to the scene?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Someone has the raw text to the scene?

What are you talking about??

 

[Robo432343]

Infinite size and infinitely expanding are not mutually exclusive, stop this tired ass argument, it's been done to death. Feel like you've been debating just to for a while now.

This argument decides the fate of an infinite universe

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

What are you talking about??

quote in japanese

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

No... it doesn't. Sorry, but like, it literally doesn't at all.

The infinitely expanding universe is determined mainly by the direction that each king manages

Infinitely expanding and galaxy illuminations, Ten of thousands of light years.. Hundreds of millions of light years.. Countless unknown aliens monsters live beyond stars where light cannot reach.

The only reference to "light" other than light years just says that aliens live beyond stars where light cannot reach, nothing about an infinite darkness + infinitely expanding light.

And the scan that just says its infinite references both

"An infinite space of light and darkness where the unknown lives"

We are imagining a dichotomy that doesn't exist in order to reconcile clear contradictions in the evidence in such a way that supports a higher tier, arbitrarily IMO.

That's fair. But if we're disregarding older information due to contradictions. Wouldn't infinitely expanding be contradicted instead of infinite as newer stuff says boundless expanse?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

quote in japanese

oh.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Someone has the raw text to the scene?

We have the audio.

 

[Deagonx]

But if we're disregarding older information due to contradictions. Wouldn't infinitely expanding be contradicted instead of infinite as newer stuff says boundless expanse?

I don't know which of the scans is newer, but I don't think that's always the best approach either way. For things like being a "boundless expanse" that could be reconciled with expansion, and that kind of terminology is often used in a "awe-inspiring hyperbole" kind of way rather than a distinct scientific observation about the universe.

 

[Omegabronic]

That's why it seems to be talking about the expanding of lights

Also all the newer information such as chozenshu says it is boundless. Super seems to say boundless.

We have been saying to wait for a translation. Official translations can get things wrong or just simplify it. The unofficial one can get things wrong as well but I'm more inclined to believe it as it uses same word or suffix that would indicate something without bounds or end and the dub also gives boundless.

we are waiting for the translations on both of those, so arguing about it is not useful for now until the requested translation come

There also seems to be a shared cosmology with GT as places such as Sugoroku Space and Time Chamber are said to be areas that are between dimensions in chozenshu.

i would like to have a translation on the gt scan as well, from which episode is it?

That's fair. But if we're disregarding older information due to contradictions. Wouldn't infinitely expanding be contradicted instead of infinite as newer stuff says boundless expanse?

i mean, if that is the case then the "greater darkness" that supossedly surrounds the universe should be discarded as it is contradicted in super

 

[Robo432343]

I don't know which of the scans is newer, but I don't think that's always the best approach either way. For things like being a "boundless expanse" that could be reconciled with expansion, and that kind of terminology is often used in a "awe-inspiring hyperbole" kind of way rather than a distinct scientific observation about the universe.

If a mathematician or a scientist said that its a boundless expanse in a serious way then i can see it being infinite

 

[DivineAura44]

If a mathematician or a scientist said that its a boundless expanse in a serious way then i can see it being infinite

Mf needs a scientist to accept an upgrade

 

[Robo432343]

Mf needs a scientist to accept an upgrade

bro if bulma said its infinite or boundless expanse in a non hyperbolic way then everything would have been fine

anyway i agree with the thread

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't know which of the scans is newer, but I don't think that's always the best approach either way. For things like being a "boundless expanse" that could be reconciled with expansion, and that kind of terminology is often used in a "awe-inspiring hyperbole" kind of way rather than a distinct scientific observation about the universe.

Please, repeat again, if you don't have arguments to prove otherwise, don't keep saying that this is hyperbole, as it is repeated millions of times during other guides, it's just derailing the topic, so I humbly ask you to stop saying such things.

And I'm sorry, anyway, let the team members speak and agree, we already have over 30 votes in favor and three team members, this CRT is getting huge and there's no way for the whole team to evaluate it.

 

[Omegabronic]

and three team members

2 team members

"this CRT is getting huge and there's no way for the whole team to evaluate it."
according to the rules we must look for the most number of staff possible in this kind of thread

 

[Xxiaa]

we are waiting for the translations on both of those, so arguing about it is not useful for now until the requested translation come


i would like to have a translation on the gt scan as well, from which episode is it?

I’ve actually listened to the GT audio myself using crunchyroll the other night. From everything I can hear it seems legit (Epiosde 2 ending) Doesn’t take away from the fact that, “countless Galaxies” according to Jaco is a mistranslation and Crunchyroll translation for Shenron seems to also be a mistranslation but we’re waiting on all of that. Kinda wondering what else might be a mistranslation

 

[Deagonx]

Please, repeat again, if you don't have arguments to prove otherwise, don't keep saying that this is hyperbole, as it is repeated millions of times during other guides, it's just derailing the topic, so I humbly ask you to stop saying such things.

Hyperbole doesn't stop being hyperbole simply because it is used often, I'm not sure what the argument here is.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I don't know which of the scans is newer, but I don't think that's always the best approach either way. For things like being a "boundless expanse" that could be reconciled with expansion, and that kind of terminology is often used in a "awe-inspiring hyperbole" kind of way rather than a distinct scientific observation about the universe.

we are waiting for the translations on both of those, so arguing about it is not useful for now until the requested translation come


i would like to have a translation on the gt scan as well, from which episode is it?

Probably best for translations but if Shenron stuff is indeed a correct translation then he'd be one of the most reliable sources you can get on this subject.



This says that there are subspaces that exist inbetween dimensions and uses Sugoroku Space and Time Chamber as an example. This is also the same guide that gives information about super and it's cosmology/workings.

Here's full thing.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

2 team members

"this CRT is getting huge and there's no way for the whole team to evaluate it."
according to the rules we must look for the most number of staff possible in this kind of thread

Three bro, Plack agreed, I don't know how you say his name exactly, but this is getting huge

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree

According to a director of DB, he claims that it is correct that the universe is infinite and has no doubt to be questioned.





Another databook citing this



Link where it was mentioned:

Kanzentai - Translations

another guide

https://imgur.io/a/L4Gaw8I#BJ78lW9

宇宙のしくみ
Structure of the Universe

地球にとどまらず、宇宙のさまざまな星々を舞台に繰り広げられる孫悟空たちの大活劇。悟空たちが住んでいる「地球」は、DB世界では「北の銀河」に属しており、「4032の緑の877惑星」と表現することができる。
Not limited to the Earth, the stage of the big adventure of Son Goku and the others unfolds on various planets/stars of the Universe. "Earth" where Goku and others live belongs to "North Galaxy" in the DB world, It can be described as "4032-Green-877-Planet".

この世全体は球体をしており、さらに破壊神ビルスによって、この広大な宇宙そのものは全部で12あると言われ、悟空たちが冒険を繰り広げている宇宙は「第七宇宙」に属している、と伝えられた。
This entire world is spherical, furthermore, Beerus, the God of Destruction, said that there are 12 vast universes in total and that the universe in which Goku and his friends are having an adventure belongs to the "Seventh Universe".

*Note: The term "この世" can mean "This world" in contrast to "あの世" which means "other-world" as the land of the dead. So in the context of Dragon Ball, it might refer to just the world of the living. So when you see "This world" here, it might refer to "World of Living"

この世はどこまでも果てしない広がりを見せ、DB世界は人知を超えた途方もないスケールを持つ世界観であることがわかるだろう。
"This World" shows an endless expanse, you will find that the DB world holds a worldview with a tremendous scale beyond human understanding.

*Note: For anyone that is wondering, the term here is "果てしない広がり" which can literally mean "something that spreads out without an end"

この第七宇宙は、サイヤ人やフリーザ一味、魔導師ビビディが生み出した魔人ブウなどにより、何百もの星が破壊された過去を持つ。
In the Seventh Universe, the Saiya-jin and Frieza's army, and the Majin Buu brought forth by the mage Bibidi, destroyed hundreds of planets in the past.

また、悟空たちのふるさと・地球を含め、第七宇宙で起こるさまざまな出来事は、界王界の界王や界王神たちによって、中立的な立場で見守られ続けているのだ。
Also, including Goku and the other's hometowns, on Earth, the various events of the Seventh Universe are being continuously watched from a neutral standpoint by the Kaiō and Kaioshins Kaiōshin of the Kaiō World.

Translation credits:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5577288

guide name chozenshu 4 I think

Full quote from the guide

https://imgur.io/a/JbISgEM

Official translation is here for those who want to verify, we have a Dragon Ball director supporting that the translation for infinity and the universe being infinite is right.

 

[Robo432343]

Official translation is here for those who want to verify, we have a Dragon Ball director supporting that the translation for infinity and the universe being infinite is right.

Koyama does not have any credibility

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

According to Herms, Chouzenshu 4 says that Dragon ball has infinite Galaxies.


Apparently, Akira Toriyama opted for the option of Dragon ball Super having countless galaxies based on the premise of what Jaco said.



Just remembering that the Chouzenshuus were directly supervised by Akira Toriyama, they were made in 2014 to introduce dragon ball Super.



So they are valid.

A Dragon ball fan reviewed Chouzenshuu and it already shows the universe of Dragon ball Super:


Scan translation: Galaxy

A cluster of stars at one location in the Universe. United stars form nebulae and several nebulae together form a Galaxy. The 4 Kaiohs who are responsible for the North, South, East and West govern these Galaxies. The division between North, South, East and West was created by the Gods and Kings of Heaven to control/supervise the infinite number of Galaxies in Outer Space.

And then we have the Hermes quote talking about galaxies being infinite.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Koyama does not have any credibility

Worse than he has, since I work with DB, about the translation he says it's right, so that's it, my goodness.

 

[Robo432343]

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

This is getting kinda tiring. Let's just wait for the translations and whatever Deagonx or omegabronic has left to say. We're just repeating the same points now

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Logically this must be referring to something else, but specifically he has good authority, he kind of already spoke up once they were pestering him about questions and he said he wouldn't answer more