Dragon Ball Heroes Speed

[Vietthai96]

So basically DB characters can react to attack that destroy infinite multiverse instantly. Those attack are done by energy/ki of space-time based power which are a type of universal energy system.

Did i get it right?

In a sense yes. But it is more complicated than that
1. Character in DB capable of reacting to the speed their ki blast or the explosion those ki blasts created, even escape it (with speed of course). It is in point 1. So if they destroy the infinite multiverse with their ki blasts explosion, they by all mean capable of reacting and even escape it. Explosion need to travel and crossing infinite distance with finite time is infinite speed
2. Mechikabura Black Hole is the same to the logic above, just slightly opposite as black hole pulling things into itself rather than exploding. However, pulling thing still applied a force which make objects physically move, which translated into speed. Due to the multiverse being infinite mean the absorption need to have infinite pulling speed in order to pull the entire multiverse across infinite distance, cross it into the inside of the black hole. If you don't have infinite pulling speed, the multiverse will never be absorbed due to the objects from the "outer most" of the multiverse don't have surficient speed to cross the distance. Characters like Xeno Trunks and Chronoa reacting to the absorption itself, and Mechikabura being the vlack hole itself due to him fused with it and it became a part of his body. Fu's point is to reinforce Mechikabura feat.
3. There is also the Demigra's Chain feat which cross infinite distance inside the Black Hole from the outside, catched characters in it and then pulling them out. Black Hole infinite in size due to containing infinite timeline in it after absorbed the entire multiverse

 

[Jamesthetaker]

In a sense yes. But it is more complicated than that
1. Character in DB capable of reacting to the speed their ki blast or the explosion those ki blasts created, even escape it (with speed of course). It is in point 1. So if they destroy the infinite multiverse with their ki blasts explosion, they by all mean capable of reacting and even escape it. Explosion need to travel and crossing infinite distance with finite time is infinite speed
2. Mechikabura Black Hole is the same to the logic above, just slightly opposite as black hole pulling things into itself rather than exploding. However, pulling thing still applied a force which make objects physically move, which translated into speed. Due to the multiverse being infinite mean the absorption need to have infinite pulling speed in order to pull the entire multiverse across infinite distance, cross it into the inside of the black hole. If you don't have infinite pulling speed, the multiverse will never be absorbed due to the objects from the "outer most" of the multiverse don't have surficient speed to cross the distance. Characters like Xeno Trunks and Chronoa reacting to the absorption itself, and Mechikabura being the vlack hole itself due to him fused with it and it became a part of his body. Fu's point is to reinforce Mechikabura feat.
3. There is also the Demigra's Chain feat which cross infinite distance inside the Black Hole from the outside, catched characters in it and then pulling them out. Black Hole infinite in size due to containing infinite timeline in it after absorbed the entire multiverse

I guess the logic make sense. Though i would stay as neutral for now, but leaning to agree.

 

[Arthex]

6+ ppl are neutral, 4-5 agree, 2 disagree. I guess someone should call the staffs before it turns into a 5 page thread and becomes unreadable.

 

[Vietthai96]

6+ ppl are neutral, 4-5 agree, 2 disagree. I guess someone should call the staffs before it turns into a 5 page thread and becomes unreadable.

Ant already ping staffs in page 1, however look like they are not interesting in evaluate this, just Ant, KLOL, and Planck comment. Planck agree at least, KLOL is neutral, Ant is most likely here as a mediate person than to agree or disagree, but seem like he is open to agreeing, however currently they are offline, should wait for a considerate amount of time waiting them to back online

But yeah i agree, this need to reach a conclusion, it is not like i rush to apply the rating (if it get accept) but i also don't want people just going in mindlessly disagree, or agree with FRA'ing train, or again using the logic it is just range, or hax or all kind of unnecessary comment like whataboutism or sarcrasm like let upgrade every High 3-A and 2-A to infinite speed

 

[kuramamyfav68]

At this point, you are just making me think you are trolling.

OK, last post here. I'm not trolling, just disagree with what's being presented for/as infinite speed.

Uh, yeah you do. You have to explain why the evidence isn't good enough. Why is anyone gonna take your word if you don't have an explanation? That's not how things work here, my guy.

Sorry, it's me being bias against DBH. Just saying the numerous "transcends spacetime"/time travel statements from before are better justifications for infinite/immeasurable speed.

 

[Vietthai96]

Just saying the numerous "transcends spacetime"/time travel statements from before are better justifications for infinite/immeasurable speed.

Transcended space-time is not anything related to infinite speed, and standard already change, no one going to give immeasurable speed because with Transcended space-time anymore

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Transcended space-time is not anything related to infinite speed, and standard already change, no one going to give immeasurable speed because with Transcended space-time anymore

The shadow dragons flying feat, as well as the instructor travelling through time imho are better feats than these.

 

[Vietthai96]

The shadow dragons flying feat, as well as the instructor travelling through time imho are better feats than these.

those was used for debating Immeasurable speed, but due to standard change they got rejected, and flying through time doesn't get you infinite speed

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody explain the current arguments and evidence here in easy to understand manners please, so I can ask for staff evaluations afterwards.

 

[Vietthai96]

Can somebody explain the current arguments and evidence here in easy to understand manners please, so I can ask for staff evaluations afterwards.

Well i will do this, when i return back to my PC

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help.

 

[Vietthai96]

Can somebody explain the current arguments and evidence here in easy to understand manners please, so I can ask for staff evaluations afterwards.

Vietthai96/sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

Done, i gathered all of my arguments and evidences in a sandbox for easier evaluation. Also if this get accepted, the sandbox will turn into speed blog so people can understand why we reached to this conclusion

 

[sanicspood]

Why is reacting to the consumption of the past present and future not immeasurable

 

[Vietthai96]

Why is reacting to the consumption of the past present and future not immeasurable

Theoretically yes, but we not debate this, this in Infinite speed issue, not Immeasurable, this will be looked up into in the future

 

[Arthex]

Small question, which characters would scale from this?

 

[Vietthai96]

Small question, which characters would scale from this?

All 2-A mainstream DBH characters, Base Chronoa and upscale from that, except her key as ordinary kai and wizard Demigra, which obviously they just scale to Toei Shin, Universe Tree.
Super Shenron is special case, he actually have an infinite speed feat in the last episode of DBS, i think so, however he also still scale due to being strongest Dragon

 

[Antvasima]

Vietthai96/sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

Done, i gathered all of my arguments and evidences in a sandbox for easier evaluation. Also if this get accepted, the sandbox will turn into speed blog so people can understand why we reached to this conclusion

Thank you.

@Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @SamanPatou @Theglassman12 @AKM sama @Matthew_Schroeder

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[Vietthai96]

Thank you.

@Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @SamanPatou @Theglassman12 @AKM sama @Matthew_Schroeder

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?

I think you can also call @Planck69 and @KLOL506 , they did come and evaluated this thread

 

[Antvasima]

Vietthai96/sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

Done, i gathered all of my arguments and evidences in a sandbox for easier evaluation. Also if this get accepted, the sandbox will turn into speed blog so people can understand why we reached to this conclusion

I think you can also call @Planck69 and @KLOL506 , they did come and evaluated this thread

Okay.

@Planck69 @KLOL506

What do you think about this?

 

[Planck69]

I suppose the logic of reacting to the pull is sound, though admittedly less than ideal compared to the original energy wave argument. Also, why are we assuming that the light chains crossed an infinite distance again? The distance from the "outside" to Trunks and company seems rather ambiguous.

All in all, now more neutral but leaning on agreement. I'd be fine with "At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite" as an alternative to this as well if an outright rating is rejected.

 

[Vietthai96]

I suppose the logic of reacting to the pull is sound, though admittedly less than ideal compared to the original energy wave argument. Also, why are we assuming that the light chains crossed an infinite distance again? The distance from the "outside" to Trunks and company seems rather ambiguous.

1. It should, well from the outside to the inside, then pull people out, the black hole contain infinite amount of timelines, thus it must cross infinite distance from the "edge", which is the hole in the middle the Mechikabura chest, to Chronoa position, it is the same as, cross infinite distance of an infinite universe and go outside of it.
2. Also Mechikabura should definitely scale to the Black Hole speed, it is literally a part of his body, powered him up

But well i understand your opinion.

Edit: So according to your point, i suggest At least Massively FTL+, likely Infinite for characters reacted to the Black Hole and scale to them, Time Power Unleashed Mechikabura (who fused with the Black Hole) and character scale to him have solid Infinite speed???

 

[Elizhaa]

I think destroying a structure like Low 2-C or 2-A would have an Immeasurable attack speed, since all points in time from the past, present, and future moments would need to be destroyed, except for maybe special or rare cases of provable time-traveling attacks.

Just destroying something like the present or present moment of a Low 2-C realm would have at best Infinite (attack) speed assuming the realm is infinite.

In most cases, these feats are treated as range feats especially since these feats tend to be outliers or have inconsistencies with the characters' speed.
I am uneasy about scaling the speed especially if the feats are largely outlierx or inconsistent with other types of speed from lack of major supporting evidence.

 

[Antvasima]

In most cases, these feats are treated as range feats especially since these feats tend to be outliers or have inconsistencies with the characters' speed.
I am uneasy about scaling the speed especially if the feats are largely outlier or inconsistent with other types of speed from lack of major supporting evidence.

That is correct, yes. Thank you for helping out.

 

[KLOL506]

I think destroying a structure like Low 2-C or 2-A would have an Immeasurable attack speed, since all points in time from the past, present, and future moments would need to be destroyed, except for maybe special or rare cases of provable time-traveling attacks.

Just destroying something like the present or present moment of a Low 2-C realm would have at best Infinite (attack) speed assuming the realm is infinite.

In most cases, these feats are treated as range feats especially since these feats tend to be outliers or have inconsistencies with the characters' speed.
I am uneasy about scaling the speed especially if the feats are largely outliers or inconsistent with other types of speed from lack of major supporting evidence.

@Vietthai96 @Ottavio_Merluzzo Thoughts?

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Why is reacting to the consumption of the past present and future not immeasurable

PPF being physical universes, alternate histories, etc wouldn't qualify due to them being just universes, and not a temporal dimension acting like a spatial one. That's what I been told in the past.

That's all ill say

 

[Vietthai96]

I think destroying a structure like Low 2-C or 2-A would have an Immeasurable attack speed, since all points in time from the past, present, and future moments would need to be destroyed, except for maybe special or rare cases of provable time-traveling attacks.

Sign.......While i understand this, but seriously through the entire thread i never once said DBH character are all 2-A thus they should be infinite, or immeasurable. That logic is extremely flawed, bad and low content and i agree that it should not be used. However thing is more than just ragen and AP

Just destroying something like the present or present moment of a Low 2-C realm would have at best Infinite (attack) speed assuming the realm is infinite.

In most cases, these feats are treated as range feats especially since these feats tend to be outliers or have inconsistencies with the characters' speed.
I am uneasy about scaling the speed especially if the feats are largely outlierx or inconsistent with other types of speed from lack of major supporting evidence.

1. That is the main thing, the attack capable of infinite speed due to it spread across the infinite multiverse in finite time and character reacting and scaling to it. DBZ, DBS was already confirmed character capable of reacting, dodging, etc......to the blast and explosion that capable of spreading, covering the area that comparable to their range (DBS is 3-A AP and range). So by all mean DBH (and DBZ, DBS canon to DBH) can also do the same, can react and dodge attacks or explosions that cover infinite sized structure in finite time, or infinite speed attack, explosion. And it it supporting for other main evidences

Black Hole from Mechikabura is just slightly opposite, it pulled everything into itself rather than exploding. Due to it can absorb infinite sized structure, it must pull everything with infinite speed into it, or else most of the multiverse will never be absorbed due to incapable of crossing the distance. Character like Chronoa, Trunks reacted to objects flied at infinite speed to the black hole so they still qualify, especially Trunks who being pulled at infinite speed, he reacted to his own speed, by all mean they are qualify. Pulling in or Spreading out is just opposite direction of movement it doesn't determine speed, speed mean they physically move, through a certain distance/length with a certain time, in this case objects and character move at infinite speed due to infinite length and finite time
2. Mechikabura is the Black Hole itself or a part of his body, i and OwO already pointed it out in this thread and in the sandbox, and it boost his overall power up (actually alot), which is ki/energy, we all know that ki boost in DB mean ap, dura, and speed altogether, the Black Hole have infinite absorption speed, Mechikabura by all mean can scale to the Black Hole itself, they are one. Both game and manga repeatedly said Mechikabura become one wotj Black Hole that absorbed the entire multiverse. And to support this point Mechikabura also said he have infinite energy (kinda) due to absorbed time itself.
3. Demigra's Light Chain cross an infinite sized Black Hole to catch and pull Chronoa, Xeno Trunks,.......out. However Planck also uncertain about this feat so i understand

Outlier is out of the question. The reaction speed was repeatedly confirmed multiple times in DBZ and DBS. This time with DBH it is just a larger scale, there is also the Fu feat which i forget (admitedly) to write in the sandbox which is in the OP, that character consistently reacted to absorption, sucking/pulling speed, one character even capable of performing his move to keep two others character from being sucked.

Inconsistency is not either, unless we talk about how to show infinite speed visually on page or video. Which if we go with this logic then many verse suffering the same, infinite speed and immeasurable speed always being inconsistently displayed visually

 

[Antvasima]

I have asked AKM to help out with evaluating this thread. Infinite speed is a rather complicated subject to evaluate.

 

[Vietthai96]

I have asked AKM to help out with evaluating this thread. Infinite speed is a rather complicated subject to evaluate.

What, you serious????. Wait not waiting for Elizhaa to reply??

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally think that it seems to make sense in this case, but AKM usually appears to want to participate in significant Dragon Ball revisions.

 

[Vietthai96]

Well, I personally think that it seems to make sense in this case, but AKM usually appears to want to participate in significant Dragon Ball revisions.

Oke then

 

[Vietthai96]

Bump

 

[speedster352]

I agree with the op fra

 

[Arthex]

I agree fra

sus

 

[speedster352]

sus

What do you mean?

 

[Vietthai96]

Can you guys stop derailing, this thread is very serious. I don't want it to filled with unnecessary comment to be honest

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Bump

 

[Vietthai96]

A Bump before going to sleep

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Viet's threads tend to die easily nlg.

 

[Antvasima]

We are waiting for AKM. He is currently very busy IRL.

 

[SuperStar]

We are waiting for AKM. He is currently very busy IRL.

Tell him to take his time, there's no rush