Dragon Ball Heroes Speed

[KLOL506]

i’m a little confused. You don’t get infinite speed for destroying the structure, but you get infinite speed for reacting to the explosion or attack that was going to destroy the structure? How does that work? It seems like you’re just trying to go around the rule.

Nope, that is literally the rule.

Doesn't mean you're going to scale to it all the time if there isn't enough context to push for said narrative.

 

[KLOL506]

Well for example, let's just say I use a omnidirectional blast that can travel a Infinite distance in fnite time, and someone else reacts to/dodges it. Dosent that mean they should have Infinite speed aswell?

That's literally how we do it. Speed page says as much.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Can you post the scan with her reaction? I only saw her making a shocked face. Perhaps I missed something.

Did she dodge or outrun the attacks?

I posted the scans above about the "multiverse" thing.

What you described is literally a "reaction". That is literally Perception/reaction speed, which is valid.

Plus, we accept that Dragon Ball characters can react to their own attacks.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Well for example, let's just say I use a omnidirectional blast that can travel a Infinite distance in fnite time, and someone else reacts to/dodges it. Dosent that mean they should have Infinite speed aswell?

If the blast was meant to destroy the structure, then I would say it doesn’t count because of our standards.

Nope, that is literally the rule.

Doesn't mean you're going to scale to it all the time if there isn't enough context to push for said narrative.

Which comment number?

 

[KLOL506]

If the blast was meant to destroy the structure, then I would say it doesn’t count because of our standards.

Except, that literally IS OUR STANDARDS. Why would destroying an infinite-sized realm change anything?

Which comment number?

I literally edited my comment to show it there, but here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/regarding-infinite-speed.128946/#post-4368816

Better yet, just read the entire CRT.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Why's this so tense/intense? We all know infinite/immeasurable speed DBH doesn't fly in here. It will simply never be accepted.
Also, this evidence is very shaky. Don't think it suffices for infinite speed.

 

[KLOL506]

Also, this evidence is very shaky. Don't think it suffices for infinite speed.

You might wanna note down as to why you think the evidence is shaky first.

 

[Arthex]

If the blast was meant to destroy the structure, then I would say it doesn’t count because of our standards.

Which comment number?

So b.o.g goku should be downgraded aswell then ig?

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Some barebones "reactions" aren't enough for infinite speed. Same issue as with Sailor Moon's thread. You need legit crossing infinite distances in an instant or so (not in who knows how long). And again, this will never be accepted.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

So b.o.g goku should be downgraded aswell then ig?

Why not?

 

[KLOL506]

You need legit crossing infinite distances in an instant or so (not in who knows how long).

Yeah no that's not how we do scaling here.

Infinity divided by a number is still infinity, also you only need to be faster than the attack itself or outpace it altogether from hitting you. Reacting is also a valid way to scale to it, assuming the character also has the time to make a move to get out of its way.

 

[KLOL506]

Why not?

Sorry chief, that's not how we do things here at all. Timeframes mean nothing when you're approaching infinity itself. Again, infinity dividied by a finite number is still infinity through and through.

It's even worse when you realize that BOG feats involve an explosion even swifter than the shockwaves enveloping the universe, and that's not infinite in size either.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Yeah no that's not how we do scaling here.

Infinity divided by a number is still infinity, also you only need to be faster than the attack itself or outpace it altogether.

This is besides the pictures anyway. The evidence here simply doesn't cut it. Even the previous arguments (such as the shadows dragons travelling to somewhere was it?) are better for this.

 

[KLOL506]

This is besides the pictures anyway. The evidence here simply doesn't cut it. Even the previous arguments (such as the shadows dragons travelling to somewhere was it?) are better for this.

Should've just said so then and left the others to see whether it lines up or not.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Yeah no that's not how we do scaling here.

Infinity divided by a number is still infinity, also you only need to be faster than the attack itself or outpace it altogether from hitting you. Reacting is also a valid way to scale to it, assuming the character also has the time to make a move to get out of its way.

And who didn't react properly here? Chronoa. You need actual reaction feats for infinite speed.

 

[thetechmaster36]

You need legit crossing infinite distances in an instant or so (not in who knows how long)

Imagine saying this when crossing an infinite distance in a finite amount of time is still infinite speed

 

[Arthex]

This is besides the pictures anyway. The evidence here simply doesn't cut it. Even the previous arguments (such as the shadows dragons travelling to somewhere was it?) are better for this.

Explain why the previous arguments are better.

Travelling a Infinite distance in fnite time is infinite speed ( well I have many staffs say so ) and Reacting to a infinite speed attack is indeed infinite reaction speed. Don't see what's wrong.

 

[KLOL506]

And who didn't react properly here? Chronoa. You need actual reaction feats for infinite speed.

I believe it wasn't strictly Chronoa people were talking about here? I thought it was Trunks.

@Ottavio_Merluzzo

 

[Antvasima]

Busy but need to say something so

Dark Shenron points
As Null said, we don't know how much Dark Shenron affected. While it is unlikely to have only affected three spacetimes, there is no evidence for the entire multiverse being affected. In that scene, when the characters talk about "this world", they are referring to the Time Nest where both they and the spacetime split are.

More importantly, the characters did not react to it. They sense Dark Shenron when he appears, but given they were in the Demon Realm at the time it isn't that great a feat. They only learn about spacetime being distorted when they see evidence of it first-hand.

Thank you for the information.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Anyway, there are better arguments than these. That's my point.

 

[KLOL506]

Thank you for the information.

@Ottavio_Merluzzo @Vietthai96

 

[kuramamyfav68]

I believe it wasn't strictly Chronoa people were talking about here? I thought it was Trunks.

@Ottavio_Merluzzo

Not much of a difference. He didn't properly react to it. And also, you need proof Mechikabura absorbed the nultiverse immediately for Trunks'/Chronoa's reaction to count as infinite speed.

 

[Arthex]

Anyway, there are better arguments than these. That's my point.

You never explained why they are better in first place, so why do you think ppl should consider it?

 

[Arthex]

Not much of a difference. He didn't properly react to it. And also, you need proof Mechikabura absorbed the nultiverse immediately for Trunks'/Chronoa's reaction to count as infinite speed.

Breh it was done in a fnite time, that's all needed. It dosent have to be instant

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Not immediately though.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

You never explained why they are better in first place, so why do you think ppl should consider it?

I don't have to do anything. The evidence here isn't good enough. Previous stuff such as the countless "transcend spacetime" and the instructor flying through time are better arguments.

 

[Arthex]

Not immediately though.

Why does it have to be immediate? It made the objects infinity away from itself reach the blackhole in fnite time, That's infinite aborsbtion speed.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

Anyway, I'm done here.

 

[thetechmaster36]

I don't have to do anything. The evidence here isn't good enough.

Uh, yeah you do. You have to explain why the evidence isn't good enough. Why is anyone gonna take your word if you don't have an explanation? That's not how things work here, my guy.

 

[Arthex]

At this point, you are just making me think you are trolling.

 

[KLOL506]

And also, you need proof Mechikabura absorbed the multiverse immediately for Trunks'/Chronoa's reaction to count as infinite speed.

No, it doesn't have to be immediate. Covering an infinite number of things within a finite timeframe is still infinity. I don't know where people got this misconception that every infinite speed feat involving an infinite number of things/distance needs to be done instantaneously. It doesn't.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

I believe it wasn't strictly Chronoa people were talking about here? I thought it was Trunks.

@Ottavio_Merluzzo

Not sure. Trunks does say that he's getting sucked in, which may imply that he reacted to it, but he's being pulled in already when he says that.

Although, It must be said that Trunks was very close to Mechikabura since he was going to attack him. They were almost face to face.

Unlike Chronoa's case (she wasn't close to Mechikabura) it's harder to evaluate. It could be nothing or it could be supporting evidence. I'll leave this to you.

 

[KLOL506]

Not sure. Trunks does say that he's getting sucked in, but he's being pulled in already when he says that.

Although, It must be said that Trunks was very close to Mechikabura since he was going to attack him. They were almost face to face.

Unlike Chronoa's case (she wasn't close to Mechikabura) it's harder to evaluate. It could be nothing or it could be supporting evidence. I'll leave this to you.

Then IDK, I guess I'm neutral in that case.

But the points about infinite speed feats not requiring to be done immediately/instantaneously, and infinite speed being viable for reacting to/outpacing/outmaneuvering attacks that can cover infinite-sized realms or an infinite number of realms as a general thing still stands.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

.

I wanna clarify a little more about the feat in question:




The litle black dots on the sky are Mechikabura and Towa. Between them are Trunks and Fin.

Trunks is close to Mechikabura (and he's even closer when Mechikabura activates the black hole. See the scans posted before for that).

Meanwhile Chronoa is far away from him.

Also a reminder that Mechikabura himself should scale to the Black Hole's feat, since he gets his massive power boost from it.

 

[Vietthai96]

Well, sleeping due to timezone, but please people stop with Sailor Moon or whatever other verse, why bring in other verse was always the first thing when people arguing???. Using other verses as a reference is fine, but always mentioning them in debating is not good by all mean, each verse different from each other.

Anyway, Trunks case is valid, the pulling speed is infinite mean if Trunks doean't have the reaction speed to react to the absorption, he will be inside Mechikabura instantly due to being blizted infinitely, the distance between Trunks and Mechi is irrelevant as the pulling speed is infinite not finite. Trunks on the other hand still recorgize him being pulling in, and react to that fact. And no please don't bring the unconscious logic in here, Trunks was unconscious AFTER he get pulled inside, he still conscious outside and when the absorption pulling him in, if he unconscious, he will not make that comment

Edit: Anyway even if we somehow ignore Trunks reaction, Chronoa still legit reacted

 

[Swerzye29038]

The people saying "Let's just make all 2-A characters infinite speed then" are strawmanning the OP and are basically saying that they have no counterargument tbh

That's not at all what a strawman is. The people responding with those arguments are saying that this same scaling can be applied to a million different characters following this logic. DBH characters can affect infinite sized structures because of their AP and hax, which is why they are 2-A in the first place. I'm not saying that it's out of the realm of possibility that they are infinite speed, but using the former pieces of evidence in an attempt to prove that they do have that speed is, to be frank, incredibly stupid.

 

[Vietthai96]

That's not at all what a strawman is. The people responding with those arguments are saying that this same scaling can be applied to a million different characters following this logic. DBH characters can affect infinite sized structures because of their AP and hax, which is why they are 2-A in the first place. I'm not saying that it's out of the realm of possibility that they are infinite speed, but using the former pieces of evidence in an attempt to prove that they do have that speed is, to be frank, incredibly stupid.

This is extremely tiring, but i will say it again, i never said all the characters should have Infinite speed because they have 2-A range and AP or hax. Can people please just stop that, i already explained thing in-deep, just read them please

 

[Jamesthetaker]

So basically DB characters can react to attack that destroy infinite multiverse instantly. Those attack are done by energy/ki of space-time based power which are a type of universal energy system that scales to their AP and speed.

Did i get it right?

 

[Swerzye29038]

This is extremely tiring, but i will say it again, i never said all the characters should have Infinite speed because they have 2-A range and AP or hax.

I never said that this was a claim you made. My comment was saying that this is the implications of your logic could be applied to several different characters and verses.

 

[thetechmaster36]

The people responding with those arguments are saying that this same scaling can be applied to a million different characters following this logic.

. . .and? So what if that's the case? If other verses follow the same logic, and this miraculously is accepted, then their cases can be looked at and see if they apply as a result of something similar or even more concrete. No issue with that. If this isn't accepted, then they wouldn't need to be looked at because then they would be denied the rating too.

People are literally saying "oh, well, this shouldn't be accepted because other verses would get it too" as a means to reject the upgrade without even giving any counterarguments whatsoever. That doesn't work.