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Dragon Ball Heroes Speed

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AKM sama said:
I already stated my views. There is nothing to continue as far as I am concerned. And it seems Confluctor agrees with me. Please read above.
Click to expand...
AKM sama said:
Not unique or weird
Flimsy: insubstantial and easily damaged.

Meaning, he doesn't agree as well.
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Okay. Can you explain your points in an easy to understand manner please? I have problems keeping track.
 
Dagoth_OwO said:
No offence, but you're completely misinterpeting the context here. The term "history" in DBH can either refer to a timeline or just the entire multiverse flat-out, depending on context. The "histories" that are shown and stated, floating around inside Mechikabura have been outright stated to be separate spacetime-continuums/timelines. Literally 4 of those "histories" shown floating around, are the histories where the Dark Dragon Balls landed to and which were flat-out stated to be separate spacetime-continuums/timelines or spacetimes. The other is the GT timeline where Xeno Trunks and the others even had to fight their alternate timeline/history selves.

Simply put, Mechikabura is shown and stated to be absorbing alternate histories/timelines. Chronoa states that he's swallowing up all of time and the world is going to perish, because he's absorbing entire timelines. In the end, Chronoa confirms that the world did perish and history was no more. It's not that hard to understand. The term "history" in the end is simply referring to all of existence, while the term "histories"in the beginning is referring to the numerous timelines being swallowed up, and "the world" is obviously referring to the multiverse as a whole, as he's already consumed various timelines.
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Dagoth actually proved that every timeline is being absorbed, for your first argument.

Rest idk, i m too lazy to scroll.
 
AKM sama said:
I disagree with the black hole point as well. We do not have enough information on how every timeline is being sucked in. It seems like the OP is working with the interpretation that the universes getting pulled are travelling some distance in order to get sucked by the black hole. A timeline, unlike the normal debris that are being shown getting sucked, is not some 3D thing existing at the end of an infinite universe that requires to be pulled in at infinite speed to be absorbed. If he had pulled in some 3D object from an infinite distance, it might have been fine. But time, and different space-time continuums only require the range to be pulled in, not speed.

Anybody with space-time hax and some sort of dimensional travel shenanigan can absorb any part of space-time without the need to involve speed or distance altogether. You can just open a black hole in one dimension capable of working across all the other dimensions, where it would seem like every other universe (except where the black hole resides) is getting sucked into a point that does not physically exist in that particular universe but another dimension. To me, this seems to be a range feat of space-time warping happening on a 2-A scale rather than something happening at infinite speed.

It's difficult to explain for me, but I am sure DT or someone else can explain it better.
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AKM sama said:
I didn't deny it.


Not necessarily to that degree. For example, if I create a mini black hole in Dimension A that is capable of working across space-time, I can also make it work it in the space-time of Dimension B to suck it in without moving Dimension B all the way to Dimension A. A space-time distortion can happen across many different space-times simultaneously, they don't need to travel distances.


It goes back to what I said about not knowing exactly how the universes are getting sucked. I cannot prove something that is not shown. I just stated a more likely and common scenario of how these feats take place which makes it a range feat more than a speed feat. If you can prove that all the universes actually moved infinite distance to get sucked in the black hole, I wouldn't have any problems with infinite speed.
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I suppose that this seems to make sense. Should we close this thread then?
 
... have you read the counter arguments? The second msg's first part is like pure assumption.
 
Well, given that AKM strongly disagrees with this revision, and I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about the subject, it is very unlikely that it will be accepted. My apologies.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, given that AKM strongly disagrees with this revision, and I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about the subject, it is very unlikely that it will be accepted. My apologies.
Click to expand...
With all due respect I have to disagree here, this is bad logic. All of AKM arguments was based on his own intepretation which i already provided scan, context and arguments to debunk it, and he can't even bring new aside from: i still disagree....
That is not a propee arguments, that is personal belief on the matter, and i don't think we run the wiki based on personal belief
 
Well, joining here (despite what I'd said previously). See? Weak evidence like that doesn't fly here. Why do you think I said the immeasurable stuff is better evidence?
 
kuramamyfav68 said:
Well, joining here (despite what I'd said previously). See? Weak evidence like that doesn't fly here. Why do you think I said the immeasurable stuff is better evidence?
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Can people stop with very low content arguments like this. Can people just form a proper debunk rather than came in and say the evidences is weak. Weak or strong is a subjective term and it is not a proper counter arguments
 
(I might make a speed revision for infinite speed) No need to elaborate. Your arguments are as good as the Sailor Moon ones - bad. You need better proof (i.e. transcending spacetime to hit the opponent instantly, or by reaching any location instantly, even stuff an infinite distance away etc).
 
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kuramamyfav68 said:
No need to elaborate.
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This alone mean your arguments hold no weight

kuramamyfav68 said:
Your arguments are as good as Sailor Moon's ones - bad. You need better proof
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Sorry, but my arguments are different from SM, so please don't bring other verse here, that is not a counter argument
kuramamyfav68 said:
transcending spacetime to hit the opponent instantly, or by reaching any location instantly
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This actually can't grant you infinite speed without futher context, and you don't need everything instantly to have infinite speed, by that logic you can downgrade every other verse that have infinite speed due to them still taking time to move, cross infinite distance infinite time is enough
 
Vietthai96 said:
This alone mean your arguments hold no weight


Sorry, but my arguments are different from SM, so please don't bring other verse here is not a counter argument

This actually can't grant you infinite speed without futher context, and you don't need everything instantly to have infinite speed, by that logic you can downgrade every other verse that have infinite speed due to them still taking time to move, cross infinite distance infinite time is enough
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I meant via sheer speed it does grant you infinite speed. And yes, crossing an infinite speed instantly (not over time, as will be in my crt), makes you infinite speed. Idc about any other verses, and yes, Helios from GOW should be downgraded as well.
vsbattles.fandom.com

D (Vampire Hunter D)

D, also known as Vampire Hunter D (吸血鬼ハンター"D") is a dhampir, half vampire, half human who travels around the Frontier in search of the Nobility. In almost every book it is noted that D has superior strength, skills and knowledge in comparison to other dhampirs. It is hinted that this is because...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Look at this profile. This is infinite speed, not what GOW/SM have.
Regardless of all this, this crt has been rejected.
 
You've got nothing else to say/add - concession accepted. Hopping out once more. Btw, not going to waste my time for a crt that's not going to get accepted (like you did lol, since I'm sure what you just said was sarcastic).
 
Vietthai96 said:
With all due respect I have to disagree here, this is bad logic. All of AKM arguments was based on his own intepretation which i already provided scan, context and arguments to debunk it, and he can't even bring new aside from: i still disagree....
That is not a propee arguments, that is personal belief on the matter, and i don't think we run the wiki based on personal belief
Click to expand...
Well, the issue is that I can't take a stand against AKM and other staff members here unless I am well-informed and actually strongly believe in something contrarian, so what are we supposed to do really?

If you write down the remaining arguments that you think need further evaluation from AKM in an easy to understand manner, I can ask him to comment here again, but I obviously cannot make any promises on his behalf.
 
i thought the "debunks" here were bad but kuramamyfav68 comments are worse.

this smells likle "infinte timelines dbh" ... mods, haters and some "special" guys here know that more feats will be added in near future and an upgrade is only a matter of time.

btw thanks for proving the whole history thing
 
Jinsama said:
i thought the "debunks" here were bad but kuramamyfav68 comments are worse.

this smells likle "infinte timelines dbh" ... mods, haters and some "special" guys here know that more feats will be added in near future and an upgrade is only a matter of time.

btw thanks for proving the whole history thing
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what's your problem? Not my fault I'd warned him about this. I'm not the one who wasted his time coming up with flimsy reasoning like that.
 
From the comments I can tell that someone doesn't know how things work here.

I'd advise you to stop derailing the thread by bringing unrelated arguments here. Thank you.

And again, saying "it's flimsy evidence" without reasoning is on itself a weak argument.
 
Antvasima said:
If you write down the remaining arguments that you think need further evaluation from AKM in an easy to understand manner, I can ask him to comment here again, but I obviously cannot make any promises on his behalf.
Click to expand...
 
kuramamyfav68 said:
I meant via sheer speed it does grant you infinite speed. And yes, crossing an infinite speed instantly (not over time, as will be in my crt), makes you infinite speed. Idc about any other verses, and yes, Helios from GOW should be downgraded as well.
vsbattles.fandom.com

D (Vampire Hunter D)

D, also known as Vampire Hunter D (吸血鬼ハンター"D") is a dhampir, half vampire, half human who travels around the Frontier in search of the Nobility. In almost every book it is noted that D has superior strength, skills and knowledge in comparison to other dhampirs. It is hinted that this is because...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Look at this profile. This is infinite speed, not what GOW/SM have.
Regardless of all this, this crt has been rejected.
Click to expand...
Please let's not bring other verses into this mix.

Also no, infinity divided by anything is still infinity, and your claims about GOW's Helios not having Infinite Speed is blatantly ignoring context. Sailor Moon will need its own thread but that also seems to be textbook infinite speed.

Using one profile to set the standards for speed is also a massive no-no. We literally agreed in a recent CRT that infinite speed is perfectly fine to apply for attacks that cover an infinite-sized realm regardless of timeframe, issues arise only when you go in to scale said attacks to characters, you'd need the evidence, intent and consistency to show for it.
 
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Vietthai96 said:
I close to sleep, i will write it when i wake up.....also i want to ask a question, why it must be AKM???
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Because he is the bureaucrat who seems most interested in evaluating these threads, and I think he has agreements from other staff members here as well. In comparison, I mostly do maintenance and organisation work. I do not evaluate much on my own, nor am I very good at it when juggling so many different topics at once.
 
Antvasima said:
Because he is the bureaucrat who seems most interested in evaluating these threads, and I think he has agreements from other staff members here as well. In comparison, I mostly do maintenance and organisation work. I do not evaluate much on my own, nor am I very good at it when juggling so many different topics at once.
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so narrowing down, he is a staff with high position, sigh................that all, and because he is high position, everything come from him must be fact to you........

Anyway, i'm going to return later, it is midnight in my country already. I will write down the arguments again, but i believe he will just come back and say disagreement again
 
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He is one of my most trusted collaborators in this community and is a critical thinker who highly values accuracy and is knowledgeable about Dragon Ball. He did not remotely earn his position for no good reason.
 
See here for an explanation regarding the methods that I have systematically used to organise the growth of this community almost from scratch:

connect.fandom.com

Antvasima

Antvasima, most commonly called Ant by his community, is a former Fandom Community Council member, a current Fandom Stars member, and a bureaucrat for the VS Battles and Tenchi Muyo wikis. He joined Fandom on January 5, 2014, and stumbled upon the VS Battles wiki on March 3, 2014, which...
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Given that it is almost a 100 times as popular as when I first came here, it seems to have worked well so far, and I am most likely not capable of handling it in any other way at this point.
 
I looked at the feat once more, and while I don't doubt the succ speed being infinite given that an infinite number of universes means that there'd need to be an infinite amount of space, I'm kinda considering this to be an incredibly tough job to do, if not impossible to scale to Trunks and co.

I know that reaction speed usually scales in tandem with combat speed and travel speed in Dragon Ball, but this one seems to be one of those few times where exceptions happen. Trunks was pretty clearly caught off-guard by it and had pretty much no time to react, given that he'd be fixated on the black hole on Mechi's hand and would then be jumped on by the succ. Now Chronoa tho, she definitely saw it coming (Where it started to finally spread in its true form), but the fact of the matter is, neither Trunks nor Chronoa were able to do jackshit to save their own hides from being victims of the succ, AKA they weren't able to dodge this time.

As for scaling, I believe only those that can visibly appear as a blur to Chronoa's eyes and can effortlessly blitz her faster than her perception would allow, would be candidates for an Infinite speed rating.
 
KLOL506 said:
know that reaction speed usually scales in tandem with combat speed and travel speed in Dragon Ball, but this one seems to be one of those few times where exceptions happen. Trunks was pretty clearly caught off-guard by it and had pretty much no time to react, given that he'd be fixated on the black hole on Mechi's hand and would then be jumped on by the succ. Now Chronoa tho, she definitely saw it coming (Where it started to finally spread in its true form), but the fact of the matter is, neither Trunks nor Chronoa were able to do jackshit to save their own hides from being victims of the succ, AKA they weren't able to dodge this time.
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well, considering Mechikabura at that time vastly stronger than both of them, Chronoa is in base state and she heavily battered, Trunks on the other hand is right Mechikabura face, so dodge it pretty hard. But anyway scaling can be for later, as i understand your points
 
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