Doom Eternal - The Ancient Gods - Part Two CRT (Spoilers Ahead)

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Some of the stuff at the bottom is blank.

 

[Firestorm808]

Ah, fixed it.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Looks good. So what do we do with slayer

 

[Firestorm808]

Should be pretty straightforward of his TAG key scaling to Davoth.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Doomguy | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom

 

[Cyberblader90]

so what was the agreed ap justifications for slayer

 

[Axxtentacle]

Wait a second. We just made Davoth flat At Least 2-B? Then the TAG Key literally can not be "At least low 7-B". He has to be At least 2-B.

 

[Zencha9]

Wait a second. We just made Davoth flat At Least 2-B? Then the TAG Key literally can not be "At least low 7-B". He has to be At least 2-B.

At least 7-B to 2-B possibly 2-A?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yes, that's what Oven's proposal for the Slayer was. Ovens also said he was fine with the Davoth page which is just flat out "At least 2-B". The TAG Key literally HAS to be "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A" as well.

 

[Firestorm808]

Up to now, we did elaborate more on At least 2-B Davoth's Physical AP. Now we know that TAG Slayer scales physically as well.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I still feel more comfortable with Davoth having At least Low 7-B, possibly 2-B to 2-A.

But considering part of the reason Davoth is 2-B flat out is because Hell is an extention of his power. I guess flat 2-B works too but I'd prefer flat Low 7-B with tier 2 as a possibility.

 

[Jared1111]

I mean him being outright 2-B doesn’t really contradict anything and like you said Hell is stated to be extension of him, which outright confirms he’s at least 2-B no questions really require.

However 7-B, possibly 2-B/2-A is way funnier to someone stumbling across the page randomly and seeing the power gap so I say go for it.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

He still is listed as full Massively Hypersonic+ while the Slayer only has Reactions at that level

Why ?

Also, his Intelligence is higher than that, in the page there isn't "High" apparently, but since he can create futuristic tech, I guess he's Extraordinary Genius going by the description

 

[Firestorm808]

Fixed that.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

About the Slayer, only TAG key will be Tier 2 then ? How much time there is between Eternal and Ancient Gods ? Seems a too big jump if we don't have a gap

 

[Cyberblader90]

quite a a bit of time actually:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/doom-discussion-spoilers-ahead.110156/post-3654788

Hugo said they might make a canon comic takes place during that gap

 

[Axxtentacle]

Enough time for hundreds of data entries.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

But then that human doesn't look a day older, I don't think it's more than a few years, which seems too small for a Tier 7-2 jump

But I guess it's how works anyway, shame that Icon Of Sin Universal feats apparently don't scale to physicals, it would fix this huge jump

 

[Cyberblader90]

i mean he grows stronger over time. Davoth even says:
"You feel you are prepared now, for this...", when the Dark Lord's Soul Sphere was retrieved. So the Doom Slayer's worked to increase his power to match or exceed the Dark Lord's.

ARC data entry 112 happens after Doom Eternal and the Slayer's defeat of the forces of hell. But there are ARC data entries going all the way to #172, #203, #318, #364, and #666, implying that there have been a significant timeskip between Doom Eternal and the Ancient Gods.

 

[Cyberblader90]

there is also possible backscaling even earlier than tag, but that is for another time

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yes. The Sentinels have Argent Energy, they can extend their lives. That's why they don't look older.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yes. The Sentinels have Argent Energy, they can extend their lives. That's why they don't look older.

I'm talking about that human on radio tho, he looks the same from Eternal to TAG

Does the Icon of Sin uses Argent Energy ? Because that could mean scalling his Space-time and Universal stuff to his overall source of power

 

[Axxtentacle]

I'm talking about that human on radio tho, he looks the same from Eternal to TAG

...who?

 

[Cyberblader90]

i mean slayer's growth is partially explained by having a portion of davoth within him, plus he got a bunch of agrent energy absorbed in 2016

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Intern Guy, finally remembered

i mean slayer's growth is partially explained by having a portion of davoth within him, plus he got a bunch of agrent energy absorbed in 2016

A portion of a Tier 2 since the Divinity Machine, that could help them being a bit closer to TAG. But if the Icon truly uses Argent Energy as source (Which as we see with Slayer, boosts physicals), his Tier 3 feats could scale to his Physical Stats, which would also upgrade Eternal Slayer

 

[DTG499]

Intern Guy, finally remembered


A portion of a Tier 2 since the Divinity Machine, that could help them being a bit closer to TAG. But if the Icon truly uses Argent Energy as source (Which as we see with Slayer, boosts physicals), his Tier 3 feats could scale to his Physical Stats, which would also upgrade Eternal Slayer

That’s what I’ve been saying. It’s stated he absorbs all the demon’s powers anyway.

 

[DTG499]

The time gap isn’t a good justification for doomguy becoming tier 2 because he spends literally billions of years in hell in the pre 2016 events. A couple years would really justify the power increase, however him killing the icon of sin would make sense.

 

[DTG499]

Also let it be know that Davoth’s soul hax is very high level. Because Hell can absorb the souls of people from countless universes.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also let it be know that Davoth’s soul hax is very high level. Because Hell can absorb the souls of people from countless universes.

That's qualifiable for 4D soul manip I believe.....I remember Planck saying something like that back on some Q&A thread.
Basically soul haxxing population over past, present and future in a timeline....and/or soul haxxing people from accross multiple space-time continuums qaulifies for one.

I believe Hell is even considered a sentient dimension with its own space-time.....so getting soul haxxed by it will be 4D regardless of feats....since the hax is performed by a Higher Dimensional Being.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Also let it be know that Davoth’s soul hax is very high level. Because Hell can absorb the souls of people from countless universes.

Well that's good, because I feel Doomboi will get his arse handed to him at 2-B or 2-A

So what you guys think of the Icon ? I repeat, currently we have him at Low 7-B with High 3-A to Low 2-C Environmental Destruction, however, if the source of all of this is Argent, it should scale to his physicals as this Energy amps both power and body, with the Slayer being a example of this

It would make Eternal Slayer High 3-A to Low 2-C and TAG Slayer 2-B to 2-A

Edit:

The Icon of Sin is first shown wearing a full-body suit of armor of Maykr design, colored an eerie white and glowing vividly with Argent Energy

Yeap, the source is Argent

 

[Axxtentacle]

Here's my issue: The Icon's attacks explicitly don't do much more than just somewhat damaging buildings. He seems to be moreso the exception to the rule in this case.

Additionally, the only scaling we have is him being killed by the Slayer.

Also, The intern being alive sounds more like PIS honestly, he logically shouldn't still be alive unless there's argent energy bs going on.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I don't think AOE is a problem when we are getting 2-B Slayer (who never destroyed anything close to that with his physicals), for example, by that the Icon can't even be Low 7-B because he apparently isn't Building level, doesn't work like that

 

[Axxtentacle]

So, you're also proposing 2-B Champion titan then?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Oh, no no

Sorry if I wasn't clear, my point is, after we finished Davoth discussion, it was time to make the Keys for Slayer, and apparently he's going to be Low 7-B in Eternal and 2-B in Ancient Gods, a HUGE jump in a small timeframe (a few years at best since Intern Guy didn't aged and well, still is a intern)

Thinking on this, I started to search new feats to scale to Eternal Slayer and took a second look at Icon Of Sin feats

Currently, his Universal feats aren't scaled to his physicals, however, I believe they should, since Environmental Destruction rules states that Universal Energy System actually allows the feats to be scaled to his physicals, and guess what ? Icon is powered up by Argent Energy, a source that also enhances the user physically and by that, Icon would scale to his Universal stuff

Making Eternal Slayer being High 3-A to Low 2-C, while Ancient Gods Slayer is 2-B to 2-A

That's what I want to talk about

 

[ThisThingisReallyBroken]

I don’t think there is enough evidence for that.

Currently, Samuel was freaking out about the Black hole the Icon was going to make and considered it absorbing the universe after it got strong enough. Thus the slayer running over to kill the thing before it could absorb the universe into hell.

We know there is a strength increase, but it shouldn’t have been that much over the course of 2016 to Eternal.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

But Eternal to Ancient Gods can jump from Low 7-B to 2-B ?

The Intern Guy didn't aged and still is an intern from Eternal to Ancient Gods, it can't be that much of a timeskip

Also the Icon's purpose is send Universes to Hell, it's actually very clear that his powers has to be at that level, we just need to find a way (If there is one) to scale his powers to his physicals, and Argent being his source actually allows that, at least the possibility is there

 

[Jared1111]

I honestly think scaling the Icon to tier 2 or at least Tier 3 isntball that unreasonable, and like others have said it’s makes the jump between Eternal and TAG 2 seem less over the top.

However, it Doesn’t really matter about the jump in power level between games though, guys who were Low 7-B can become Multiverse level over time and we have instances of that on this wiki so it’s not like him being Low 7-B completely invalidates his 2-B feats especially when it’s stated he got demonstratedly more powerful, and the timeframe is vague enough that we can’t definitively say how long it took to get there.

 

[Axxtentacle]

That still makes the Champion Titan tier 2.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Still, the Icon of Sin being physically universal would kind of break the story in the sense that he is strictly still a threat to everything because of the reality warping.

 

[DTG499]

The time gap isn’t enough to justify him becoming tier 2. Because there was a much larger time gap between when he came out the divinty machine and the events of doom 2016, literally billions of years.

The justification for doomguy going from tier 7 to tier 2 is solely dependent upon his reactive power level and absorption abilities. Saying that the icon aided doomguy into becoming tier 2 isn’t unreasonable.