DOOM Speed Re-Wording

[Bobsican]

Short and simple, the reasonings for infinite speed in the verse seem to come from this character, which...

Infinite with wings (Capable of flying across a universe which is infinite in size)

And when you look the statement...

The very first creations molded from the void in Urdak. Seraphs are bound to the Father's will. The angelic creatures helped build the Father's works, assisted his research, and once winged through creation to do the Father's bidding. After the Battle of Isonkast, the Father stripped them of their wings.

Not only it's quite vague on how much they traveled to begin with, we don't grant infinite speed just because a space is infinite, as a distance traveled within a infinite universe isn't inherently infinite, you can even see that with how we don't rate every single character in an High 3-A verse or above as infinitely fast just by moving within that infinite universe.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It was damn clickbait, but ya we discussed it privately, so I agree.

 

[Vietthai96]

damn clickbait, anyway

i'm pretty sure you can interpret the statement as, they flied through creation as the creation here mean literal entire multiverse, not just distance between some universes

 

[Bobsican]

The page currently just mentions "universe", and given that the cosmology blog makes a clear difference between the "regular" universe and bigger cosmological structures, at best that'd require a rewording on the page.

 

[Vietthai96]

bruhh, lol, yeah, should be a reword, someone messege @Firestorm808

 

[Bobsican]

Either way, traveling across qualitatively superior 4-Ds, 5-Ds or whatever structures isn't inherent proof of infinite speed either for similar reasons outlined in the OP and this

 

[Transcending]

I do think a rewording is fine

 

[Vietthai96]

Either way, traveling across qualitatively superior 4-Ds, 5-Ds or whatever structures isn't inherent proof of infinite speed either for similar reasons outlined in the OP and this

i mean, creation in contexts here is refering to the entire multiverse, which is 2-A, you can see in Firestorm blog, winged through creation mean they flied through the entire 2-A multiverse

 

[ImmortalDread]

Wait, it is 2-A? Ya, I change my stance, this needs only rewording

 

[Vietthai96]

Wait, it is 2-A? Ya, I change my stance, this needs only rewording

DOOM - Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

I mean, both the multiverse is 2-A and single universe is high 3-A, so winged through creation either in multiverse context or universe context pretty much can be interpreted as they flied through the entire thing

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya, this needs rewording @Bobsican

 

[Bobsican]

Range: Extended Melee Range (Is three meters tall), unknown with Telekinesis. Far higher with Demonic Crucible | Standard Melee Range physically, unknown with powers | Standard Melee Range, Tens of Meters with powers

This heavily implies this is in a 3D scale, and so it wouldn't be valid per what's said in the OP, or may require some editing too, I guess.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

I agree with it needing a rewording

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

This heavily implies this is in a 3D scale, and so it wouldn't be valid per what's said in the OP, or may require some editing too, I guess.

How does that imply that it is on a 3-D scale?

 

[Bobsican]

No interdimensional range, no (low complex) multiversal range, nothing.

 

[Vietthai96]

This heavily implies this is in a 3D scale, and so it wouldn't be valid per what's said in the OP, or may require some editing too, I guess.

well, it is like not everyone put range about travelling distance on that section

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It's the cope of Doom speedblizing Sora

 

[Bobsican]

Y'all act as if I nerf a verse as soon KH comes up

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

No interdimensional range, no (low complex) multiversal range, nothing.

Seriously?

 

[Bobsican]

AFAIK, yeah.

Although a mod can correct me or something on that regard, it's not like i particularly know this verse, after all.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

You dont gain planetary range by being able to run around the world

 

[Firestorm808]

I agree with it needing a rewording

I'll make the adjustment.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

The range was for referring to his abilities. The only thing that would have 2-A range is the Demonic Crucible, which has a clear statement on it being able to corrupt all realms in the multiverse (with that said, not sure why it isn't just straight up 2-A in stats).

 

[Bobsican]

Also, as a broad reminder, infinite speed has high standards, it has to fit narratively without it raising plot holes when scaled to other characters, as no cinematic timing would make something that happens in an instant not happen that quickly if that was the case.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Bob... the person in question was travelling across a whole multiverse which each universe is infinite size and there are infinite of them, this is infinite speed.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Also, as a broad reminder, infinite speed has high standards, it has to fit narratively without it raising plot holes when scaled to other characters, as no cinematic timing would make something that happens in an instant not happen that quickly if that was the case.

Okay. Name an instance where the wing stuff is contradicted outside of gameplay (which is from Doomguy's perspective anyway).

 

[Bobsican]

When it comes to scaling such speed to other attacks or characters a high amount of scrutiny is necessary. Often these speeds don't scale to any regular attack or other characters. Fictions tend to prove this fact by the attacks and/or movement of characters not starting and finishing simultanously, even if the characters are moving a finite distance, despite the fact that this should be the case for infinitely fast characters. Generally, to scale such speed feats to characters or other attacks the verse needs to provide solid evidence for it and consistently portray the character/attack and those that scale as moving that fast.

And all of that just from a single feat? Ehh... I'm not a fan.

 

[ImmortalDread]

How is this not solid evidence, Bob? Someone is travelling with wings across a whole multiverse, and there are infinite space-time continuums and each of them are infinite in size, travelling through two universes gives infinite speed?

I don't get the issue here, but I disagree with downgrade, the current needs rewording.

 

[Bobsican]

Oh, when you put it like that it sounds more appropiate, but I'd want to also evaluate it's consistency while we're on that, high standards and all of that.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Evaluating the cosmology is a bit different topic, but if it is accepted, I am unsure of what you want to revise exactly? Its validity? Seems a bit different topic to current thread's premise.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

I think not much else needs to be said or done outside of the partial rewording of the speed stat.

 

[Bobsican]

Consistency on infinite speed, Dread.

The cosmology itself is fine as is.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Oh, you are asking for a possibility of anti-feats in question? Since this is a bit, your burden to prove if they exist any.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

The Ancient Gods doesn't showcase any anti-feats for Doomguy's speed outside of game mechanic stuff. There might have been something in the older games, but Doomguy at this point is faster anyway, so they wouldn't apply.

 

[Bobsican]

Eh, fine, what about the rewording, however?

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Kept up with Samur Maykr when he regained his wings. Winged Seraphs like Samur were able to wing through creation, which consists of infinite timelines and infinite-sized universes.

Something like this. Doesn't need to be verbatim.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Eh, fine, what about the rewording, however?

Looks fine

 

[Firestorm808]

Something like this. Doesn't need to be verbatim.

Seems okay.

 

[Bobsican]

Okay, can you please edit the page accordingly? I'm not into the verse, after all.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Seems okay. But this would mean immeasurable speed.

Then why did we accept it as Infinite speed in the first place. Wasn't there a whole thread about it?