DOOM Speed Re-Wording

[Hellscream]

Uh no, that's not my personal interpretation, it's literally what's being said. Prove me wrong otherwise, instead of coming with these "nitpicking" arguments that don't refute anything that i said. Supporting feats? this is straight from the DOOM codex, what needs to supported?
You didn't really counter anything, you simply gave you own twist on moving through "space and time" which could mean what you said, but in that context it obviously implies that they're capable of moving through time itself. which is yet again supported by being able to "wing through creation"

 

[Hellscream]

We're talking about Angelic beings, that have been granted wings, that can help them "wing through creation" to do the bidding of their creator, which is also the creator of the verse btw

Just wanted to point that out if you didn't know

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Again, what specific scan says "Time and Space"? I could see Immeasurable if I see that specific statement, but I think "Winged through creation" is too vague to assume he traveled forward and backward in time.

 

[Hellscream]

You have 2 statements. One which is "Winged through creation to do The Father's bidding" and the other one being "Able to move through time and space".
Im saying this is an immeasurable speed feat, considering it's creation itself, not a specific point in time but creation in it's totality. This obviously makes sense as they're angelic beings, and have been granted power by the creator of the verse in order to aid him.
the fact that they're stated to be "able to move through time and space" obviously supports this like i said.

 

[Hellscream]

I think it should atleast get a possibly immeasurable rating

 

[Hellscream]

As for infinite speed implying that it's, only at one point in time and possibly immeasurable, for all of creation.

 

[Vietthai96]

Uh no, that's not my personal interpretation, it's literally what's being said. Prove me wrong otherwise, instead of coming with these "nitpicking" arguments that don't refute anything that i said. Supporting feats? this is straight from the DOOM codex, what needs to supported?
You didn't really counter anything, you simply gave you own twist on moving through "space and time" which could mean what you said, but in that context it obviously implies that they're capable of moving through time itself. which is yet again supported by being able to "wing through creation"

What nitpicking part from me??, you literally interpreted the scans as Creation mean the totality of creation, which to be fair is, vague as hell. Time and Space again is also a vague as hell statement. Yes if you combine both of them i can see the validity of infinite speed, however nothing suggested they capable of Immeasurable speed

And the bolded part of your comment, literally it is your assumption that they can move through time. Yet you haven't address on my counter that time and space here mean space-time. And mind you, through the entire game, there is no single feat of character capable of moving through time as in backward to the past and forward to the future, which as a whole is an anti-feat that against your assumption of Immeasurable speed

I think it should atleast get a possibly immeasurable rating

I see no point that could get Possibly Immeasurable speed, literally nothing backed up your assumption and suggest that. It also is extremely unfair to verse that have better statement than this yet didn't have a Possibly, such as Sailor Moon when they have the same statement about moving through time and space and even have feat sending their attack backward in time

 

[Hellscream]

It's vague as hell, but yet after all these comments you still haven't explained the meaning of "winged through creating" considering that they're angelic beings tasked with helping the creator of the verse.

 

[Hellscream]

Except for that they not only have a statement of being able to move through time and space, but also a statement of being able to move through creation itself. Both statements support each other.

 

[Transcending]

Again, what specific scan says "Time and Space"? I could see Immeasurable if I see that specific statement, but I think "Winged through creation" is too vague to assume he traveled forward and backward in time.

I believe he's referring to this- https://doom.fandom.com/wiki/Codex/...s#:~:text=Able to move through time and space

 

[Hellscream]

These were beings unlike any we had seen before, sword and shield held no weight against them, for the ethereal flesh of these luminous beings seemed unbound by mortality. Able to move through time and space, they held sway over all dominions of the known and unknown dimensions. Through their ways we grew stronger, our society bolstered by their infinite wisdom and all-knowing power, assuring our peoples' safety for all time - in this world and the next

 

[Hellscream]

The very first creations molded from the void in Urdak. Seraphs are bound to the Father's will. The angelic creatures helped build the Father's works, assisted his research, and once winged through creation to do the Father's bidding. After the Battle of Isonkast, the Father stripped them of their wings.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Hmm, it is time travel for sure. And I do admit that being legit Infinite and simply having time travel is a weird combination, so perhaps that could be Immeasurable.

 

[Hellscream]

Hmm, it is time travel for sure. And I do admit that being legit Infinite and simply having time travel is a weird combination, so perhaps that could be Immeasurable.

So, would you be fine with an Atleast infinite, possibly immeasurable rating?

 

[Bobsican]

I'd say that moving across time and space is vague without further context if you ask me, as that's often a fancy way to describe going across timelines (universes) or the like, rather than time travel.

 

[Hellscream]

I'd say that moving across time and space is vague without further context if you ask me, as that's often a fancy way to describe going across timelines (universes) or the like, rather than time travel.

The rating doesn't only come from that though? the fact that they're stated to be able to "wing through creation" is what supports this.

I agree that "being able to move through time and space" itself is not enough.

 

[Bobsican]

Eh, that's quite unrelated if you want to argue immeasurable, especially as the sentence that'd turn it from infinite to immeasurable is way vaguer to begin with, so I'd be against that.

 

[Vietthai96]

at this point i will repeat myself, winged through creation is extremely vague, and move through time and space isn't move between timelines or universes, because time and space here is singular in sentence, not plural. Time and space is, most of the time another way to say space-time. So there is nothing to suggest even a Possibly rating, no backed up feat, no specific statement

Edit: However, if most staff just go along the way and accept Immeasurable speed then i have nothing to say, even though personally i found the reason extremely lacking, if not non-existent

 

[Hellscream]

So the only argument you can come up with is "Winged through creation" being vague, despite it coming from the codex which is pretty much the source of DOOM lore?

 

[Hellscream]

Man... The codex is made up out of a few pages of lore.. it's not a harry potter book. there aren't 84325349 different feats for every scenario, which is also not needed.

 

[Transcending]

I doubt this is a reference to a single space-time continuum as the same sentence later said the Maykrs held sway over all dominions of the known and unknown dimension.

 

[Transcending]

Doomguy himself has also been stated to attack the demons through time and was referred to as a "time-walker".

 

[Hellscream]

Doomguy himself has also been stated to attack the demons through time and was referred to as a "time-walker".

That's also correct, i forgot about that.

 

[Bobsican]

Reliability from a statement's source isn't everything, what it actually means in the first place also matters.

 

[Transcending]

Reliability from a statement's source isn't everything, what it actually means in the first place also matters.

The statements are from the Sentinels and demons, both having experiences with Doomguy and the demons especially have no reason to lie as Doomguy is their enemy.

 

[Vietthai96]

So the only argument you can come up with is "Winged through creation" being vague, despite it coming from the codex which is pretty much the source of DOOM lore?

i said it being vague doesn't mean i dismissed it, what the hell

I doubt this is a reference to a single space-time continuum as the same sentence later said the Maykrs held sway over all dominions of the known and unknown dimension.

I mean, the sentence is singular in grammar, so probably they contradict themselves bruhh

Doomguy himself has also been stated to attack the demons through time and was referred to as a "time-walker".

i remember that line in previous thread, however many discussed it before as it is a hypebole statement, refer to Doomguy go through many space-time universes to battle the demon, and later iirc someone clarify he using portals or some form of dimensional travel to travel.................

 

[Bobsican]

I'm not even questioning that bit, the issue is that these statements are rather vague for what's being proposed, but we'd have to wait for the staff at this point.
Edit: If dimensional travel is being used that renders infinite speed too quetionable for even a "possibly" rating.

 

[Hellscream]

Dimensional travel is not being used. they travel by the use of their wings

 

[Vietthai96]

Dimensional travel is not being used. they travel by the use of their wings

i refer to Doomguy and his statement about him attack the demon through time and is called time-walker, not the Makyr, unless you want to claim that Doomguy has wing

 

[Hellscream]

i refer to Doomguy and his statement about him attack the demon through time and is called time-walker, not the Makyr, unless you want to claim that Doomguy has wing

I was referring to bobsican's statement
Doomslayer scales to this, as he defeated Davoth, the being who created the said cosmology.
If he gets a "possibly" rating atleast which is made for cases like this.

 

[Transcending]

I mean, the sentence is singular in grammar, so probably they contradict themselves bruhh

I don't think it's necessarily a contradiction. I don't think they intended to interpret "through space and time" as the space-time of a single continuum but rather all of space and time.

i remember that line in previous thread, however many discussed it before as it is a hypebole statement, refer to Doomguy go through many space-time universes to battle the demon, and later iirc someone clarify he using portals or some form of dimensional travel to travel.................

The issue with portals is that Doomguy himself cannot create portals, in Eternal he created portals with the help of the Intern or VEGA. He had neither's help back when the statement was made.

And I don't think Doomguy went to many space-time continuums to battle the demons, after DOOM 64 he did not leave Hell, he planned to stay in Hell for all time. After that we see him outside only when the Sentinels took him.

 

[Hellscream]

I forgot to say that DOOM gameplay should not be mixed with it's lore.

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't think it's necessarily a contradiction. I don't think they intended to interpret "through space and time" as the space-time of a single continuum but rather all of space and time.

it is fair, however, still just another interpretation

The issue with portals is that Doomguy himself cannot create portals, in Eternal he created portals with the help of the Intern or VEGA. He had neither's help back when the statement was made.

And I don't think Doomguy went to many space-time continuums to battle the demons, after DOOM 64 he did not leave Hell, he planned to stay in Hell for all time. After that we see him outside only when the Sentinels took him.

Yes, i remember he never leave Hell, until for some reason he appeared in Sentinel, as how the flashback shown us

I forgot to say that DOOM gameplay should not be mixed with it's lore.

we talk all the time is about lore though, not a single gameplay argument was brought up, but sure

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yes, which is obviously what's being said?

No, it is not obviously being said.

 

[Transcending]

it is fair, however, still just another interpretation

I 100% agree that it's just another interpretation, but considering it does not have any contradictions, unlike the other interpretation, I would be more inclined to use this.

Yes, i remember he never leave Hell, until for some reason he appeared in Sentinel, as how the flashback shown us

He did somehow appear in the Sentinel world, but even then I don't believe that was due to a portal as he has no portal-making abilities and the demons never visited the Sentinel World back then. This also feels like one of a case incident and I severely doubt he consistently went outside Hell. I would like to address a potential counter-argument however-

The scan which confirmed Doomguy fighting the demons through time also said he travelled between worlds. But I think this is a reference to him travelling through worlds absorbed by Hell, as we already know he has done that before-

Also, the scan differentiates him travelling between space-time continuums and going through time with an "and". The scan didn't say "or" but "and". So I don't think the scan is referring to travelling to space-time continuums as "through time". And as I said before, he has no portal making abilities for dimensional-travel in the first place. "Through time" is also very explicit in its intent for time travelling.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Okay, while I think Immeasurable DOOM is valid, can we please just focus on and conclude the Infinite speed stuff? That was the original topic of the thread and clearly is less problematic.

Lets wrap that up and apply it to the profile before tackling the titanic shitstorm that is Immeasurable speed.

 

[Hellscream]

No, it is not obviously being said.

Good argument yet again.

 

[Transcending]

Okay, while I think Immeasurable DOOM is valid, can we please just focus on and conclude the Infinite speed stuff? That was the original topic of the thread and clearly is less problematic.

Lets wrap that up and apply it to the profile before tackling the titanic shitstorm that is Immeasurable speed.

We need an admin or a content mod for that

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Don't we already have two on board with it, DDM and Firestorm?

 

[Transcending]

Don't we already have two on board with it, DDM and Firestorm?

Yeah