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Doflamingo can't even kill Kurama in the first place. The victory conditions should be changed. And even then, he'd have to incapacitate Kurama for a month.
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Donquixote Doflamingo vs Kurama (Kyübi)
- Thread starter CinCameron20
- Start date
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So permanent death? Ah sorry my bad. Then the conditions should be changed to knock out.
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Just incapacitation, that's the most likely way for Doflamingo to win.
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- #45
Okay, i'll change it to Incapacitation if Kurama can not be killed.
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Rectification, Kurama is on the edge of small country https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/kyuubis-bijuudama-calc.35735/ If kurama was at 1,75Gigaton, it would be small islandKnightofannihilation666 said:
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Rectification, Kurama is on the edge of small country https://forums.hero-academia.com/xfa-blog-entry/kyuubis-bijuudama-calc.35735/ If kurama was at 1,75Gigaton, it would be small island
Was that Calc ever accepted here? I don't see a key having Kurama at small country level at all.
Was that Calc ever accepted here? I don't see a key having Kurama at small country level at all.
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That calculation shouldn't be listed under his reasoning for High 6-C AP when it is a High 7-A feat, tbh.
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Birdcage is massive and would not pose any problems for Kurama.RoyGundam said:
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@Scarlet - I'd like to point out that the size of the cage is actually manageable dependent on how Doflamingo wants it to be, such as when he initially made it to trap everyone on Dressrosa, or when he put it on another island at a drastically smaller scale.
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Birdcage can contract and trap Kurama inside.
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I'll agree to the fact that he has greater versatility, but Parasyte isn't gonna do a thing to Kurama because of his great physical strength.
And in both instances Birdcage has been used to encircle large areas and not hinder Doffy's opponents. It's not exactly a technique made for 1v1.
And in both instances Birdcage has been used to encircle large areas and not hinder Doffy's opponents. It's not exactly a technique made for 1v1.
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What suggests that Kurama has superior physical strength? Though Parasito may not be very effective anyways due to Kurama's size in general, such as when Doflamingo only restricted Oars Jrs leg, but not his entire body.
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I also agree that Parasyte wouldn't do anything to Kurama. True but it seems that Birdcage would be effective against large opponents such as Kurama.
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Sheer size for one thing, and also he's superior to all 8 other Bijuus.CinCameron20 said:
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@Scarlet - Size means nothing when looking at their stats. And you are using the other Bijuu to support your statement that Kurama is physically superior to Doflamingo, who has nothing to do with them. If anything, Doflamingo's weapon can be several times larger than Kurama, seeing as how he can turn an entire city into threads and manipulate them.
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Sheer size? Going by that logic I could say Pica or the Giant's in One Piece are physically stronger than Luffy but we all know that's not the case.
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Doflamingo has to keep Birdcage up for a month to incapacitate Kurama.
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@Cin What else would I compare Kurama to except from stuff from his own verse. Do you want me to reference a crossover manga or something? Of course I'm gonna reference feats from his own verse.
@Knight Only in difference to Pica, Kurama is a higher tier on top of being more massive compared to Doffy. AP and physical strength are not always the same.
@Knight Only in difference to Pica, Kurama is a higher tier on top of being more massive compared to Doffy. AP and physical strength are not always the same.
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Doflamingo via the reasons above
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Looking at both of their profiles
Both have equal stats a speed is equalized, this comes down to abilities, stamina, intelligence and range.
Abilities: Kurama's best and virtually only thing is the Biju Bomb which has good rage and packs a punch but remember it takes some time to create a powerful bomb (not to long), if he spams them they won't be as powerful as a charged one so with enough strings Doffy should be able to block them or survive them since he has the same durability as Kurama. For the changed ones Doffy could dodge them while in the air since Biju can't forcibly detonate their bombs or he could use that time to use his strings to trip up Kurama right when he's about to fire and divert the bombs course , Doffy's only thing is his strings but he can do a lot, he could use the clouds or create and use his Birdcage to Fly which would allow him to have the flight advantage, he could restrain Kurama (even if for a short while) to get some free hits, he could turn the buildings around them into strings and use those to his advantage since Kurama will be surprised to see the buildings disappear. Doffy's strings are based on cutting or piercing (the bullets) meaning he will have an easer time hurting Kurama since cutting/piercing damage needs a bit less force then blut force damage.
Stamina: I will say Kurama has higher stamina but Doffy is no slouch in that department either.
Intelligence: Kurama is a brut and doesn't really forces on tactics, I can't say to much about Doffy but he put those strings to work.
Range: Kurama's range is just the Biju Bomb which has a long range and wide explosive area but Doffy can fly and dodge them or block the weaker ones with a large amount of strings. Doffy's strings got good range to and since their so small I doubt Kurama will see them, the big thick one yes but those very small thin ones... Not likely.
Honestly I just see Doffy coming out on top more then I see Kurama. Mainly due to his use with his strings and the fact that Kurama's a big target. Kurama might get so angry he would try a massive biju bomb and Doffy would just use enough strings to wrap around Kurama's head and pull it straight down causing the biju bomb to exploded in his face. Not saying that will happen but its a possibility.
Anyway sorry for the long read LOL.
Both have equal stats a speed is equalized, this comes down to abilities, stamina, intelligence and range.
Abilities: Kurama's best and virtually only thing is the Biju Bomb which has good rage and packs a punch but remember it takes some time to create a powerful bomb (not to long), if he spams them they won't be as powerful as a charged one so with enough strings Doffy should be able to block them or survive them since he has the same durability as Kurama. For the changed ones Doffy could dodge them while in the air since Biju can't forcibly detonate their bombs or he could use that time to use his strings to trip up Kurama right when he's about to fire and divert the bombs course , Doffy's only thing is his strings but he can do a lot, he could use the clouds or create and use his Birdcage to Fly which would allow him to have the flight advantage, he could restrain Kurama (even if for a short while) to get some free hits, he could turn the buildings around them into strings and use those to his advantage since Kurama will be surprised to see the buildings disappear. Doffy's strings are based on cutting or piercing (the bullets) meaning he will have an easer time hurting Kurama since cutting/piercing damage needs a bit less force then blut force damage.
Stamina: I will say Kurama has higher stamina but Doffy is no slouch in that department either.
Intelligence: Kurama is a brut and doesn't really forces on tactics, I can't say to much about Doffy but he put those strings to work.
Range: Kurama's range is just the Biju Bomb which has a long range and wide explosive area but Doffy can fly and dodge them or block the weaker ones with a large amount of strings. Doffy's strings got good range to and since their so small I doubt Kurama will see them, the big thick one yes but those very small thin ones... Not likely.
Honestly I just see Doffy coming out on top more then I see Kurama. Mainly due to his use with his strings and the fact that Kurama's a big target. Kurama might get so angry he would try a massive biju bomb and Doffy would just use enough strings to wrap around Kurama's head and pull it straight down causing the biju bomb to exploded in his face. Not saying that will happen but its a possibility.
Anyway sorry for the long read LOL.
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@LordGriffin
Almost all of Doflamingo's abilities are simply useless, he cannot kill Kurama. Bijuu cannot be killed by conventional means. It's debatable if Birdcage can even incapacitate him long enough for him to win, which is one month.
Almost all of Doflamingo's abilities are simply useless, he cannot kill Kurama. Bijuu cannot be killed by conventional means. It's debatable if Birdcage can even incapacitate him long enough for him to win, which is one month.
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@Burning
Useless how? I could say the same for Doffy. The dude can take a lot and still fight considering all the damage he took during Dressrosa.
Useless how? I could say the same for Doffy. The dude can take a lot and still fight considering all the damage he took during Dressrosa.
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I'm saying he cannot kill Kurama, which is why I said almost all of his abilities are useless. Kurama on the other hand can kill him. I know about the damage Doflamingo has taken through Cin, this is why I said in my first post 'I think Kurama should win eventually'. I'm not saying he would stomp Doffy or beat him with low difficulty.
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I never said he would kill him did I? Or did you not read what I posted?.
The rule is win by incapacitation not death, Doffy will continue to do damage and Kurama will waste chakra firing off biju bombs so sooner or later he will be KO'd
The rule is win by incapacitation not death, Doffy will continue to do damage and Kurama will waste chakra firing off biju bombs so sooner or later he will be KO'd
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votes are 7-6. If this is not decided very soon, then this will be placed as Inconclusive for both characters.
@Burning - I had to change the Victory Condition since victory via death =/= killing the target and ignoring a timed resurrection. I would not say that Doflamingo's abilities are useless if he can limit Kurama's movement and potentially remove limbs with his attacks. He can use his threads to create barriers, and utilize haki to amplify his defenses.
I'm still unclear on Kurama's Regenerationn... someone said Low-Mid but I don't remember Kurama/Naruto displaying anything of that magnitude.
@Burning - I had to change the Victory Condition since victory via death =/= killing the target and ignoring a timed resurrection. I would not say that Doflamingo's abilities are useless if he can limit Kurama's movement and potentially remove limbs with his attacks. He can use his threads to create barriers, and utilize haki to amplify his defenses.
I'm still unclear on Kurama's Regenerationn... someone said Low-Mid but I don't remember Kurama/Naruto displaying anything of that magnitude.
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I read it actually. It doesn't explain how Kurama will be put out of circulation for a month.
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is it specified how long it would take for Kurama to come back from being "killed"? And even so, if Bird-Cage is enclosed on him and he can't stop it from damaging him, he'll end up either severely wounded, or in pieces.
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It never said how long it would take them to resurrecte, that's why its not good in battles
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@Dodo - not yet. The votes just reached 7 for one side. If there are more votes presented, then it will be concluded. Or if nothing happens to change the votes within the grace period, it will be inconclusive.
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I know, that's understandable. Yes, some of Doflamingo's abilities are useful. The problem is that, he has to restrain Kurama for a month. That's why I said 'almost all'. To be honest, Birdcage is the only thing I see going for Doflamingo. If the tailed beasts can be diced up, that would have been done or tried multiple times, and yet they're repeatedly shown to only be able to be sealed or restrained. This is why I said Birdcage represents Doflamingo's best chance of winning. Kurama took attacks from the Juubi and Obito, who are almost certainly going to be upgraded (probably, lol) and disregarding that are both still stronger than Kurama. He's not particularly weak to cutting attacks like Bee/Gyuki is. I simply do not see how Doflamingo is doing any sufficient damage to him.CinCameron20 said:
The Regenerationn issue is in one of Gwyn's blogs for the upcoming Naruto revisions.
Anyway, is it possible for Doflamingo's strings to be blown away, dispersed or repelled with shockwaves, roars or tsunamis? Like how V2 Naruto did with Pain's gravity shenanigans, and Kurama did with Naruto's giant Rasengan?
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Doflamingo's strings have not been shown being affected by shockwaves. The threads are under Doflamingo's full influence, as shown when he uses abilities where the threads are not connected to his body (Black Knight, Full Bright, Parasito). It's like telekinesis. The only time they've ever been disrupted is when Luffy applied attacks strong enough to break them.
Kurama would have to be physically strong enough to break Doflamingo's cage threads with his attacks, but looking at the durability of the strings compared to what Kurama scales to (For Half of his power compared to Gyuki, who scales to part of a 600+ GT feat), it's very close at best. Another matter is that Doflamingo didn't have Bird-Cage covered in haki--though I doubt he could apply it on something that massive anyways.
Even if Doflamingo isn't strong enough to deal any real significant damage with some of his strikes, this is a very small problem when you take into account how he can abuse his ability to bind a character, affect the battlefield, and spam his awakened threads. With Doflamingo turning the ground beneath Kurama into threads, and wrapping them around his legs or tails, and using those waves of threads to block incoming attacks, I think Kurama would be dealing with obstacle after obstacle just to land direct blows on Doflamingo, who has the endurance to tank them.
A likely scenario if Doflamingo gets the upper-hand in this fight, is that he whittles Kurama down with binding + striking combos before totally restricting his movements if Kurama slips up, or simply begins to feel fatigued from taking too many hits
Kurama can surely give Doflamingo a beating if he gets his hands on him, but Doflamingo's use of trickery, Small-scaled Bird-Cage, and defensive tactics with his threads should make this a hard fight for Kurama to come out on top.
I'm the OP, i shouldn't be biased Q_Q.
I'll check Gwyn's blog.
Kurama would have to be physically strong enough to break Doflamingo's cage threads with his attacks, but looking at the durability of the strings compared to what Kurama scales to (For Half of his power compared to Gyuki, who scales to part of a 600+ GT feat), it's very close at best. Another matter is that Doflamingo didn't have Bird-Cage covered in haki--though I doubt he could apply it on something that massive anyways.
Even if Doflamingo isn't strong enough to deal any real significant damage with some of his strikes, this is a very small problem when you take into account how he can abuse his ability to bind a character, affect the battlefield, and spam his awakened threads. With Doflamingo turning the ground beneath Kurama into threads, and wrapping them around his legs or tails, and using those waves of threads to block incoming attacks, I think Kurama would be dealing with obstacle after obstacle just to land direct blows on Doflamingo, who has the endurance to tank them.
A likely scenario if Doflamingo gets the upper-hand in this fight, is that he whittles Kurama down with binding + striking combos before totally restricting his movements if Kurama slips up, or simply begins to feel fatigued from taking too many hits
Kurama can surely give Doflamingo a beating if he gets his hands on him, but Doflamingo's use of trickery, Small-scaled Bird-Cage, and defensive tactics with his threads should make this a hard fight for Kurama to come out on top.
I'm the OP, i shouldn't be biased Q_Q.
I'll check Gwyn's blog.
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Okay.
Isn't the durability of the strings 645 gigatons? Prime Kurama > 50% Kurama though.
I really hate to sound like a broken record, but if the one month criteria cannot be reached, Kurama wins eventually. In fact, I would readily agree that Doflamingo would win if the incapacitation thing wasn't for a month. He has much more superior abilities. Also, I have no problem with creators of a thread debating for a character.
Isn't the durability of the strings 645 gigatons? Prime Kurama > 50% Kurama though.
I really hate to sound like a broken record, but if the one month criteria cannot be reached, Kurama wins eventually. In fact, I would readily agree that Doflamingo would win if the incapacitation thing wasn't for a month. He has much more superior abilities. Also, I have no problem with creators of a thread debating for a character.
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@Burning - i know, but it is unspecified how much Gyuki contributed when destroying the CT. Kyubi cloak Naruto and Itachi were both attacking it too. I don't buy that Naruto and Itachi had nothing to do with it.
And if Gyuki contributed to almost all of the energy to destroying the CT core, then Prime Kurama (50% > Gyuki) would be Low 6-B via powerscaling. Is that correct, or am i wrong? (If so, we'd have to use 50% kyubi)
I thought that incapacitation did not have to mean "Doflamingo has to continuously hold Kurama down", but rather Kurama being worn out or injured to the point that he can't actually fight back until he has recovered (if that would take over a month--but if he gets cut apart by the cage and impaled by numerous threads, I don't think his regen would help him), and considering how Doflamingo can sit and drink wine while the bird-cage is up, consciously making sure it doesn't get broken or fall down would be within his power to do. 30 days may be a stretch, but characters in one piece can go on with fighting for days until one or the other collapse.
And if Gyuki contributed to almost all of the energy to destroying the CT core, then Prime Kurama (50% > Gyuki) would be Low 6-B via powerscaling. Is that correct, or am i wrong? (If so, we'd have to use 50% kyubi)
I thought that incapacitation did not have to mean "Doflamingo has to continuously hold Kurama down", but rather Kurama being worn out or injured to the point that he can't actually fight back until he has recovered (if that would take over a month--but if he gets cut apart by the cage and impaled by numerous threads, I don't think his regen would help him), and considering how Doflamingo can sit and drink wine while the bird-cage is up, consciously making sure it doesn't get broken or fall down would be within his power to do. 30 days may be a stretch, but characters in one piece can go on with fighting for days until one or the other collapse.
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