Does resisting Existance Erasure and other durability negation abilities scale to a character's durability?

[Doorinmyhouse]

If a character resists an ability that ignores durability like Existance Erasure, and said EE has shown to work on a significant scale, such as Zen'ō's Low 2-C EE or Dimentio's and Count Bleck 2-B EE void, would that character's durability be Low-2-C/ 2-B ?

If yes why, since durability negation abilities by defintion ignore durability so resisting them in anyway should not be any indicator of a character's durability, just their resistance.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

No, it only applies to there resistances since it doesn't have anything to do with AP.

 

[Antoniofer]

No, destruction induced powers are not related to durability; although, it may exist the case where attacks have ee as secundary effect, in whise case it can be "resisted" by having durability higher than the attack itself.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So then what about cases like with Zen'o? His 2-C justification is erasing universes. If it's not AP, why does his page not make that distinction from his regular individual stats?

 

[Antoniofer]

Mostly cuz starting from tier 2 there's next to zero difference between performing a feat via hax than via AP, as long it involve erasing at least one continuum space-time.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But there is a difference though. Thats why not every single tier 2 and their mother here has existence erasure slapped onto them. Their AP destroying space-time on [insert here] level is just their AP doing it, not doing it via the work of hax.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Mostly cuz starting from tier 2 there's next to zero difference between performing a feat via hax than via AP, as long it involve erasing at least one continuum space-time.

Well, if you do that then all tier 2s also get resistance to EE.

 

[Antoniofer]

To be fair, that is what most user does when they say x character have 4D durability or something, not as general EE but as Temporal EE. But I generally don't touch stuff that aren't the physical tiers (3 and below).

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

bump

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I feel I and Ant both agree that tier 2s get tier for EE and get resistance (to temporal EE) by the same logic.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

All Low 2-C's in Dragon Ball get existence erasure the

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

All Low 2-C's in Dragon Ball get existence erasure the

>When resisting EE hax with AP actually makes sense

 

[Planck69]

All Low 2-C's in Dragon Ball get existence erasure the

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

hmm perhaps the tiering system should mention somewere that characters that are low 2-C and above have some resistance to hax by default?

 

[Omimi]

Existance Erasure and other durability negation abilities scale to a character's durability?

nope

they only get resistances to Existance Erasure and other durability negation abilities

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Putting jokes aside, no we shouldnt go with that. Just like how our energy equalization rules strictly forbids characters from being given abilities they have never demonstrated in their own respective verses, we shouldn't do the same thing here just because of a tier.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Putting jokes aside, no we shouldnt go with that. Just like how our energy equalization rules strictly forbids characters from being given abilities they have never demonstrated in their own respective verses, we shouldn't do the same thing here just because of a tier.

Except this is the very basic of tanking Low 2-C destruction.

Of course, characters like Goku wouldn't get it because they... don't, simply. They never deal with their timelines being destroyed from past to future.

But characters who tank universal destruction, especially the kind that destroys their universe, time included, should have the ability assumed anyways.

 

[Planck69]

Except this is the very basic of tanking Low 2-C destruction.

Of course, characters like Goku wouldn't get it because they... don't, simply. They never deal with their timelines being destroyed from past to future.

But characters who tank universal destruction, especially the kind that destroys their universe, time included, should have the ability assumed anyways.

Technically speaking, Goku tanks 2-C erasure at the end of the Goku Black arc

But yeah, this would technically mean that they resist.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So then what about cases, like, 3-A destruction which destroys all matter in a universe? Would someone tanking a 3-A attack mean they resist matter-destroying attacks?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So then what about cases, like, 3-A destruction which destroys all matter in a universe? Would someone tanking a 3-A attack mean they resist matter-destroying attacks?

No, because that is a completely different ordeal.

Low 2-C destruction normally means that all of time is destroyed. That means that their past self is killed, the sperm that made them was killed, their grandfater was killed, and so on.

Low 2-C destruction erases everything everywhen in a universe. If a person tanks that, then erasing them from time obviously doesn't work, because they have precedent of it not working.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The thing is, we're not just talking about erasing them from a temporal sense. And if Low 2-C destruction does that, that would also give all tier 2s Type 1 Acasuality by default too since tanking the destruction of space-time means you also stayed safe from your past self being destroyed.

 

[Planck69]

Wouldn't that just require Acausality of some kind?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The thing is, we're not just talking about erasing them from a temporal sense. And if Low 2-C destruction does that, that would also give all tier 2s Type 1 Acasuality by default too since tanking the destruction of space-time means you also stayed safe from your past self being destroyed.

Well, yes.

That is assuming the characters actually tank that though.

Like I gave an exemple of before, Goku never survived his timeline being destroyed, so he doesn't get it. Characters that do survive that, like Asriel, do get it however.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Ricsi that's not true, you can be low 2-C without destroying the past.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Ricsi that's not true, you can be low 2-C without destroying the past.

Of course, characters like Goku wouldn't get it because they... don't, simply. They never deal with their timelines being destroyed from past to future.

But characters who tank universal destruction, especially the kind that destroys their universe, time included, should have the ability assumed anyways.

Note, universal destruction (the low 2-C kind), not an attack at that level of AP.

 

[Planck69]

@Ricsi that's not true, you can be low 2-C without destroying the past.

Well yes, by scaling you can be Low 2-C without destroying a timeline. Characters that do destroy a timeline (more specifically their own) would logically be able to survive your past self being annahilated. So they would get Type 1 Acausality.

 

[Greenshifter]

@Ricsi Yeah that's what I mean, I already discussed the Anihilaarg which has plenty of statements indicating space-time is destroyed (as well as logic since it's the same device used to create space-time) yet does not destroy the past because of a visible design-retcon which only appears from the destruction of the universe onwards and time travel episodes indicate the design-retcon doesn't happen in the past.

 

[Greenshifter]

I think the same happens in Dragon Ball where characters travel to the past despite space-time being destroyed.

 

[Greenshifter]

There is also Zen'o getting scaled to his own EE in his durability despite that other characters shouldn't even scale to it going by the answers given in the beginning of the thread and I'm not even sure if we change everything that he does actually scale to his EE then.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But then here's an issue. What about characters who are Low 2-C in AP and durability, but still get wiped from the destruction of a whole space-time continuum?

Dragon Ball is a perfect example. In the Tournament of Power, a great number of the fighters outside U7 are Low 2-C. But they still die when Zen'o erased their universes (Yes I know that Zen'o is far stronger than all of them, but the point here, is Zen'o specifically used Low 2-C level power to destroy their universes in the tournament). Why would the universes being nuked still kill Low 2-C's?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But then here's an issue. What about characters who are Low 2-C in AP and durability, but still get wiped from the destruction of a whole space-time continuum?
Dragon Ball is a perfect example. In the Tournament of Power, a great number of the fighters outside U7 are Low 2-C. But they still die when Zen'o erased their universes (Yes I know that Zen'o is far stronger than all of them, but the point here, is Zen'o specifically used Low 2-C level power to destroy their universes in the tournament). Why would the universes being nuked still kill Low 2-C's?

What about them? They get wiped out, that is that.

But when a character is shown to survive their whole timeline being erased, they should by default resist existence erasure... because they weren't erased.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But thats the issue. A Low 2-C cant be wiped out from....Low 2-C destruction. Unless Low 2-C is an outlier for the character.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But thats the issue. A Low 2-C cant be wiped out from....Low 2-C destruction. Unless Low 2-C is an outlier for the character.

Why not?

Low 2-C destruction comes with the effect of attacking people before they were born normally, so AP doesn't mean much when your dad dies before he can concieve you.

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

>What about characters who are Low 2-C in AP and durability, but still get wiped from the destruction of a whole space-time continuum?

ehh i mean it just means that Zeno's low 2-c is above theirs.Frieza is a great example of that, he is high 5-A, yet can easily be killed by high 5-A attacks, doesnt mean he isn't high 5-A.

Also we never see anyone low 2-C die from the universe getting nuked IRRC.. , they die from getting directly hit by Zeno's EE while inside the tournament ring.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

No

 

[Doorinmyhouse]

no to what?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Hakai is just durability negation and it's only AP when Hakai'ing large areas is when it can be considered AP. Hakai'ing universes and above is clearly AP however. Though, A Tier 4 character resisting Existence Erasure from a Tier 2 character isn't really durability feat and more so just resistance to it.

 

[Antvasima]

@All staff members

So what should we do here?

 

[Skalt711]

I'd say it is technically impossible to describe Existence Erasure in the scale of Attack Potency even with the use of Environmental Destruction as it is used for the attacks that cause the amount of damage dealt at a wide area. For example, a city-sized. However, the amount of environmental destruction's damage correlates with the given tier's description if we use the environment similar to our real life's one unless we are using exotic attacks, like, I don't know, maybe a gas that breaks the matter to subatomic particles via sheer energy?

The tier is very useful for describing Existence Erasure's (EE's) area of effect, but I think that EE and energy are different concepts. I mean, we could possibly describe EE as the work if it means removing energy (in a matter's form) from the universe's state (With a strong violation of the law of conservation of energy as the energy doesn't go anywhere), like how a hot soup loses its energy in a refrigerator (Bad comparison, but whatever...). But that means nothing in the practice.

If I remember well, the verses usually consider EE as the erasure of the embodiment, a certain being, something like that, relying on the amount of space, not the amount of matter, I guess.

Sorry of the amount of water I poured there, but no, resisting Existence Erasure doesn't scale to the durability.

 

[Skalt711]

@Antvasima

I'm not sure what to do there...