VSBW Hax Tier List/Hax discussion

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

RE and Power Mimicry vary a lot, also it can be used on others, maybe it should go near transmutation

No, put them higher than transmutation because they aren't limited to matter in some verses.

you mean in low godly or in high tier

what is the tier below low-godly? put it there

 

[Brogeefrong]

No, put them higher than transmutation because they aren't limited to matter in some verses.

isnt biology made up of matter by defualt

what is the tier below low-godly? put it there

u said below low godly, that could have meant low godly regen lol

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

isnt biology made up of matter by defualt

Yeah, but this is just transmutation and not something on the level matter or quantum manipulation.

u said below low godly, that could have meant low godly regen lol

my bad.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Yeah, but this is just transmutation and not something on the level matter or quantum manipulation.

to be fair both biology manip and transmutation are types of matter manip

my bad.

its fine

 

[Brogeefrong]

Does Probability Manipulation work on type 4 acausals?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Does Probability Manipulation work on type 4 acausals?

Maybe a layered version

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Toon force?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Maybe a layered version

why would it being layered matter, when probability would be effected the present and Acausal Type 4 being working on a different set of physics?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Toon force?

For toon force i'd rank its possible applications before, then do Toon force itself

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

why would it being layered matter, when probability would be effected the present and Acausal Type 4 being working on a different set of physics?

No it meant Aca type 4 follow a different system, this include laws, concept, causality, physics...
Unless Probability Manipulation it shows affecting Aca type 4 I don't think we can't assume it will work.

For toon force i'd rank its possible applications before, then do Toon force itself

Toon force in some verses include: reality warping, 4th wall break, plot manipulation, and other logic defying hax.

 

[Brogeefrong]

No it meant Aca type 4 follow a different system, this include laws, concept, causality, physics...
Unless Probability Manipulation it shows affecting Aca type 4 I don't think we can't assume it will work.

Couldnt probability effect things around the user? Unlike Fate Hax that determines a event and causes it to happen, Probability would effect the present without needing to mess with the same laws that Fate would

Toon force in some verses include: reality warping, 4th wall break, plot manipulation, and other logic defying hax.

Plot Manipulation isnt in its possible applications so i wont count whats not there

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Couldnt probability effect things around the user? Unlike Fate Hax that determines a event and causes it to happen, Probability would effect the present without needing to mess with the same laws that Fate would

Probability manipulation is more OP because it can sometimes make the impossible happen without relying on something like past, present and future. It's like reality warping.

Plot Manipulation isnt in its possible applications so i wont count whats not there

read this

Toon Force, also named Cartoon Physics, is an ability that refers to characters manipulating reality or bypassing physical laws of nature in order to achieve impossible feats for comedic effects. The users bend reality in such a way to make situations "Comedic" and "Funny." It should not be confused with Reality Warping, which can affect reality in more serious ways.

Similarly to Reality Warping or Magic, Toon force has uncountable applications and virtually no users are able to employ all of them. As such other abilities archieved through this power should be listed on the page to specify the scope of the character's use of Toon Force.

This hax got so much potential.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Probability manipulation is more OP because it can sometimes make the impossible happen without relying on something like past, present and future. It's like reality warping.

So should it be above Fate Manipulation?

read this

This hax got so much potential.

Only using whats listed on the page/its baseline level, or else RE, NPI and Power Mimicry/Null/Absorption would all be in High Godly, and figuring out all abilities maximum potential would be way too hard

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

So should it be above Fate Manipulation?

or equal to it at least.

Only using whats listed on the page/its baseline level, or else RE, NPI and Power Mimicry/Null/Absorption would all be in High Godly, and figuring out all abilities maximum potential would be way too hard

Agree

 

[Jozaysmith?]

We should talk about how Nep3 works better than 1

 

[Brogeefrong]

We should talk about how Nep3 works better than 1

Is it because NEP type 3 is both 0 and 1 while NEP is just 0

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Is it because NEP type 3 is both 0 and 1 while NEP is just 0

Void Manip: conversion to existence will dethrone Nep1 users

 

[Brogeefrong]

Void Manip: conversion to existence will dethrone Nep1 users

So where would all other aspects of Nep go

 

[Brogeefrong]

Also could void manip work on NEP type 3’s who are in a state of existence and non existence?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

So where would all other aspects of Nep go

Its about interacting with them, you can't interact with someone who's in a paradox of his own existence and nonexistent state

 

[Brogeefrong]

Void Manip: conversion to existence will dethrone Nep1 users

So Conversion into existence needs proof that it can convert NEP aspects into existence, and so for this list it cant be counted

 

[Jozaysmith?]

So Conversion into existence needs proof that it can convert NEP aspects into existence, and so for this list it cant be counted

True enough, that means its just the interaction part, Void manip can touch nep1 but not 2 and 3

 

[Brogeefrong]

True enough, that means its just the interaction part, Void manip can touch nep1 but not 2 and 3

By default Void Manipulation dosent work on Non-Existent Metaphysical aspects, so no touching Nep type 1, so while I think Void Manipulation would work on incorperabiltiy, which is a non existent body, it wouldnt work on a Non existent Mind, Soul, Etc, as it would need proof of doing that

 

[Jozaysmith?]

By default Void Manipulation dosent work on Non-Existent Metaphysical aspects, so no touching Nep type 1, so while I think Void Manipulation would work on incorperabiltiy, which is a non existent body, it wouldnt work on a Non existent Mind, Soul, Etc, as it would need proof of doing that

A non existent body is referred to different things e.g information and so the rest, Void doesn't mean lack of physical presence it means lack of existential state, if you can interact with Void, you can interact with something that clearly doesn't exist, because void is also named Nothingness

Void Manipulation, also known as Nothingness Manipulation is the ability to control and manipulate a void: nothingness or non-existence.

Lacking a body can be different things lol
Even Abstract existence but not non existence

 

[Brogeefrong]

A non existent body is referred to different things e.g information and so the rest, Void doesn't mean lack of physical presence it means lack of existential state, if you can interact with Void, you can interact with something that clearly doesn't exist, because void is also named Nothingness

Lacking a body can be different things lol
Even Abstract existence but not non existence

Been getting some conflicting answers on this so ill give u where i was told the other way around
https://vsbattles.com/threads/strongest-5d-characters-on-the-wiki.159270/page-17#post-6301332

 

[Jozaysmith?]

Been getting some conflicting answers on this so ill give u where i was told the other way around
https://vsbattles.com/threads/strongest-5d-characters-on-the-wiki.159270/page-17#post-6301332

Okay i can give you an example of a character who can turn nep1 and their respective aspects into existent back
1. rimuru tempest (WN) aspect 2 and 4
2. Anos (WN) Aspect 1,2,4 and 5
And other different people Although its just nep1 some can go all the way to 2 as i said tho not all people just some

 

[Brogeefrong]

Okay i can give you an example of a character who can turn nep1 and their respective aspects into existent back
1. rimuru tempest (WN) aspect 2 and 4
2. Anos (WN) Aspect 1,2,4 and 5
And other different people Although its just nep1 some can go all the way to 2 as i said tho not all people just some

i wasent the one who disagreed at first, i was just told conflicting answers from a admin

 

[Jozaysmith?]

i wasent the one who disagreed at first, i was just told conflicting answers from a admin

The admin makes sense either ways tho
Now the only question i have is on nonduality

 

[Brogeefrong]

Does stuff like Plot manipulation give characters the intractability to characters with non interactable aspects , or does that need to be proven

 

[Jozaysmith?]

need to be proven, only when its a really big one

Does stuff like Plot manipulation give characters the intractability to characters with non interactable aspects , or does that need to be proven

 

[Brogeefrong]

need to be proven, only when its a really big one

What does it mean when by a big one? NEP type 2 minus aspect 5 fot narrative, or TD?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

What does it mean when by a big one? NEP type 2 minus aspect 5 fot narrative, or TD?

in some cases CM1 but ngl, plot manip have been rated as being on the Same level as CM1, so yes, things Like ND2 aspect 2, Nep2 and so the more, although i doubt nep is in the category just TD should work.

 

[TinYareYare]

I think we shouldn't hierarchy haxes in tier list, it's useless

 

[Brogeefrong]

I think we shouldn't hierarchy haxes in tier list, it's useless

I mean it’s mostly for fun anyway

 

[Brogeefrong]

Btw Type 3 Acausality is gonna go down cuz you only need one other version of yourself in another time/universe to survive
Question is where does it go

 

[Brogeefrong]

And Type 2 Acausality rises cause immunity to fate manipulation

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Btw Type 3 Acausality is gonna go down cuz you only need one other version of yourself in another time/universe to survive
Question is where does it go

Can't someone deal with Aca type 3 by having a range between multiverse to 2A?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Can't someone deal with Aca type 3 by having a range between multiverse to 2A?

It can be 2-A, but you only need to be one other timeline for it to count as type 3, and in that case it's either Low 2-C or 2-C range

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

It's a hax that can be dealt with by range alone, High-high or low-godly ?

 

[Jozaysmith?]

It can be 2-A, but you only need to be one other timeline for it to count as type 3, and in that case it's either Low 2-C or 2-C range

Yeah, if i have power to explode a timeline then i can reach your acca3 the issues now is range and ap