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i already edited the pages a while ago, but there's still some discussion left, mainly about tier 1 hax & the 9 dimensions being "real" or not. basically the accepted stuff has been applied, but there's some topics left that dont involve editingSois somebody who knows how to edit properly willing to apply what has been accepted here?
Souls being higher-dimensional seems fairly straightforward to me, yes. Ovens' concerns seemed to be whether or not those dimensions are "real" ones, to begin with, but, in response to that, I'll just throw this tidbit of our Tiering System FAQ page out here.As I explained above souls are not only stated to be a 9D object but they also come and go from a higher dimension, a higher dimension that is beyond the scope of the demon world as their name already predates even its more basic principles. This higher dimension most likely being the primordial chaos that spawned them, mind you this primordial chaos and the demon world aren't the same at least until poc goes against me
Just for clarification, the Demon World is an infinite sized place that dwarfs the existence of the Human World, with the latter being described as just a small ray of light that came into existence within the endless darkness. With names and soul by default being beyond it in a higher dimension, I think it qualifies for Tier 1 hax.
What about this?snip
Well, to be more specific.I'm afraid those details are very lacking for tier 1.
For tier 1 you need more than simply being inaccessible to a universe, but rather seeing such structures as fiction or similarly irrelevant.
Man, it really seems you're using big words to make it more denotable than what it really is.Well, to be more specific.
Chaos is the realm that creates demons, demons predate even the basic principles of existence that make up the demon world.
The demon world is an infinite primordial darkness that created the human world and the human world is only a ray/line of light compared to it.
It's not just being inaccessible. In the last 2 case the demon world is infinitely bigger and contains energy to fart universes comparable to our own without problem (and by accident considering the human world came out of nowhere) while the realm souls go (chaos) is described as a higher dimension and likely beyond the demon world existence.
Man, it really seems you're using big words to make it more denotable than what it really is.
That being said, predating "fully" existence isn't indicative of something to tier 1, neither is being infinite (Without further details that go in that direction compared to the Human World), however, being a ray/line of light compared to it could use more context in terms of trascendence for the purposes of tier 1, if that's the case here of course.
Containing energy to nuke universes or whatever isn't particularly indicative of tier 1, and even if it's beyond the existence of the Demon World, it doesn't mean it's tier 1 with the whole 9-D detail, as it can simply be outside as another universe of sorts. We don't grant tier 1 to a place that's existencially "outside" something and is stated to be (5 or more)-D, details on such place seeing the lower stuff as "dimensionally" irrelevant (such as fictional, flat, etc) is generally required.
Also, if beings from the Human World can interact directly with ones from the Demon World without issue beyond travel, then that'd kinda be an anti-feat for tier 1.
A demon's physical body is not the higher-dimensional item, it's their soul, which the humans can't interact with.Also, if beings from the Human World can interact directly with ones from the Demon World without issue beyond travel, then that'd kinda be an anti-feat for tier 1, especially if the ones from the later can be in the former without, well, dimensionality issue.
The third link seems to be done incorrectly (And so can't be used to corroborate), perhaps you forgot to actually insert the link? Beyond that the explanations are nice.That's literally what the scans say. Here I compiled most of them.
The point of that was not to say the demon world is tier 1 but that the existence of the human world is totally insignificant to it and then you have the chaos stuff that is beyond even that and is the one with the tier 1 stuff.
What? Demons physical forms aren't some higher dimensional bs.
I think you are confused and/or not reading what I said and the scans that have been posted all over the thread beyond key words so please go and read it all again before giving half-baked opinions.
Here it is (Seems like there was indeed an error in the link insertion):The third link seems to be done incorrectly (And so can't be used to corroborate), perhaps you forgot to actually insert the link? Beyond that the explanations are nice.
Containing energy to nuke universes or whatever isn't particularly indicative of tier 1, and even if it's beyond the existence of the Demon World, it doesn't mean it's tier 1 with the whole 9-D detail, as it can simply be outside as another universe of sorts. We don't grant tier 1 to a place that's existencially "outside" something and is stated to be (5 or more)-D, details on such place seeing the lower stuff as "dimensionally" irrelevant (such as fictional, flat, etc) is generally required.
Interactivity is never a problem between HD and normal dimensional beings. Both can touch and feel each other just fine. Only difference is lower beings only Interact with limited portions of HD beings due to various axis beyond height/length/breadth being inaccessible.As for the rest, my bad, I was just pointing out that detail in case that was being argued, but as it isn't...
If beings from the Demon World can interact directly with the ones of the Human World without issue beyond travel then I wouldn't say it's "insignificant" for our purposes, meaning that they'd be somewhat comparable dimensionality-wise and thus wouldn't be supportive of an independant external existence that's 9-D of being tier 1 without further details regarding how it perceives the "lower-D" stuff.
We qualify for all of the above with flying colours.Q: When are higher dimensions valid, then?
A: One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.
However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify.
Furthermore, higher-dimensional entities can also qualify for higher tiers when the verse which they are from explicitly defines them as being infinitely above lower-dimensional ones in power and/or existential status. An example of this being verses such as Umineko no Naku Koro ni. However, lower-dimensional beings being stated to be "flat" in comparision to higher-dimensional aliens is not necessarily grounds for assuming the latter has infinitely more power (For reasons outlined in the answer above), and thus, such scenarios must also be analyzed case-by-case.
Such as?Interactivity is never a problem between HD and normal dimensional beings. Both can touch and feel each other just fine. Only difference is lower beings only Interact with limited portions of HD beings due to various axis beyond height/length/breadth being inaccessible.
Anyways. Chaos does qualify for Tier 1.
Tiering System FAQ
A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...vsbattles.fandom.com
We qualify for all of the above with flying colours.
1) We have relationship between DW and HW as explained by Sevil/Tony and even you acknowledged. HW is merely a line compared to DW. In the FAQ portion I highlighted above, when something is "flat" compared to HD stuff that can be enough for Tier 1 in some cases.
What we have is FAR MORE IMPRESSIVE...
HW is line compared to DW. This is not just a simple 2D vs 3D comparison....this is outriggt 1D vs 3D...
2) HW is 4D spacetime continuum originally created by DW and was embedded in it, i.e lower dimensions being embedded in higher dimensions. Which is also qualifyinh factor in the highlighted FAQ portion above.
3) If above 2 reasons were not enough we have DW being infinite/endless compared to HW. Another qualifying factor considered acceptable by FAQ portion highlighted above.
And this is just Demon World. We aren't asking for Tier 1, we are asking for Tier 1 Chaos which is verbatim called Higher Dimensional of 9D nature. Chaos isn't an external realm divorced from DW, its a state of existence which predates creation of DW&HW. So basically its something that contains DW&HW inside it whenever they were born inside i, i.e DW&HW are embedded inside it. Quite a common trope in fictional creation stories. Example God of War Chaos/Yggdrasil from Greece/Norse myth. Only in case of DMC we have stated dimensional differences between container and contained.
So in short we qualify healthily as required by FAQ protion above to make Chaos Tier 1.
yeah it does not, as far as I'm aware In the regen statement they say that demons originated from the primordial chaos and still are being formed in the demon world. since demons are basically souls not all of them predate the demon world.As for the rest, it doesn't predate the creation of the DW&HW necessarily, look at the wording carefully:
Demons Creatures that have existed since before the creation of the human world, spawned by the primordial chaos that preceded reality and formed by the demon world.
there's isn't any that I am aware of, infact there's good reason to say the Original chaos PoC is talking about is actually the Old demon world or the primordial existence from the scans aboveHowever, I'd appreciate a scan of what justifies the claim of the HW and the DW being inside Chaos, as that'd be supportive, but I don't see a citation in the post and all.
If beings from the Demon World can interact directly with the ones of the Human World without issue beyond travel then I wouldn't say it's "insignificant" for our purposes, meaning that they'd be somewhat comparable dimensionality-wise and thus wouldn't be supportive of an independant external existence that's 9-D of being tier 1 without further details regarding how it perceives the "lower-D" stuff.As for the rest, my bad, I was just pointing out that detail in case that was being argued, but as it isn't...
Well, souls aren't something physical (And so a human not being capable of interacting with them isn't supportive of tier 1 as much as lacking NPI to hit a ghost from another dimension isn't), so I'd still oppose that, but the whole conceptual nature of them (And the other things it leads to) are fine to me.
As for the Chaos stuff...
1: What justifies it being a line compared to it, again? If it's only visuals then it seems rather assumptive to say the least, as not only it's clearly portrayed with at least two dimensions (more specifically details that can't fit in 1 dimension, check the borders of the "ray"), we see the sillouette of a demon and a human in it (And it's a "ray of light", not "a line"), so it seems like an artistic portrayal that can't be taken that literally even then.
2: Hm... that does seem supportive, but not enought on its own, but it also relies on the previous point anyways, so the above has to be justified better for this to hold weight as well. Also, this would imply that the Demon World is 5-D for the sake of the argument, no? In which case the before-mentioned issue of beings of the HW being able to interact with the ones of the DW with no issue dimensionality wise holds up.
As for the rest, it doesn't predate the creation of the DW&HW necessarily, look at the wording carefully:
"From the moment of their birth, names are one of the most sacred things to demons. They represent not only power, but also the concept of their own existence, the basic principles of which predate even the creation of the demon world itself. "
This all sounds good and all until you notice "the basic principles of which predate..." basically leading into the meaning overall being that names (and souls by extension) simply not having their existence bound to the Demon World's, so to claim without a proper justification that the place where souls come from are dimensionally superior just out of a fancy state of existence and a 9-D statement seems quite overly assumptive to say the least, so I'd still disagree with souls being tier 1.
However, I'd appreciate a scan of what justifies the claim of the HW and the DW being inside Chaos, as that'd be supportive, but I don't see a citation in the post and all.
Okay, how the DW sees the HW as "insignificant", once again? Assuming this is based on stuff that wasn't brought up here already and all.If beings from the Demon World can interact directly with the ones of the Human World without issue beyond travel then I wouldn't say it's "insignificant" for our purposes, meaning that they'd be somewhat comparable dimensionality-wise and thus wouldn't be supportive of an independant external existence that's 9-D of being tier 1 without further details regarding how it perceives the "lower-D" stuff.
You are once again confusing what I said. 1) its the demon world that sees the human world as insignificant 2) demons physical forms are NOT higher dimensional or anything like that, only their souls/real selfs. 3) This is about Chaos (the demon world will come later)
Your example/counter doesn't work and doesn't go with or against what I said above
There are a ton of Higher dimensional shit in the wiki that aren't physical and get the benefits, demon souls not being physical is irrelevant and humans interacting or not with demons is irrelevant either as it doesn't debunk or support anything of what I said.
You aren't reading the scan and this scan isn't even about chaos.
The artistic description is irrelevant when the narration immediately tells you "a ray of light came into existence into an endless darkness", this coupled with the fact that the demon world has always been treated as some higher form of existence compared to it in the same manga and in the same page linked is enough support for this.
To put it simple, just read the thing.
We aren't implying or pushing for anything related to the demon world yet, we are just pointing how the cosmology works in verse. Chaos > DW > HW
1) Once again, Humans CAN'T interact with the demon world beyond making portals or protection against the effects it has.
2) Demons ARE NOT physically higher dimensional, interacting with them is irrelevant and doesn't help your case.
3: If it's infinite/endless compared to the Human World, then that could use more context, if you meant it simply being stated to be so unlike it, then it'd be supportive, I think.
It has and has been accepted, proven, said in a myriad of threads and is in the relevant cosmology blogs in the verse page.
But once again this is irrelevant to chaos, the main argument here.
It does, its just logical thinking. We are told Demons predate the existence of the demon world and chaos spawned demons. It doesn't need that much brain power to figure it out.
Except you are either ignoring or not understanding what you are reading. The quote you posted is clear as day. "the basic principles of which predate even the creation of the demon world itself.". You are right in something there, demons are not bout to the demon world but this is because they predate its very existence.
As for why we think Chaos is dimensionally superior.
The damn place is stated to be a higher dimensional realm.
The shit it produces (souls) is stated to be a basic nine dimensional object.
Demon souls are stated to predate the existence of the demon world itself
The relation for with Chaos and the Demon World is of similar if not higher proportions to the one with the Demon world and the Human World.
Why you might ask? Chaos is stated to be the "the primordial chaos that preceded reality" and was into existence before the demon world. This being very similar to the demon world being the primordial darkness that came after it and created a standard space-time continuum (human world) and dwarfs the entirety of its existence, comparing it to a ray of light in an endless darkness (which can get us to tier 1 for the Demon World but that's for another thread).
All of this is enough for us to claim the primordial chaos is indeed a higher dimensional realm
There isn't any but this part is irrelevant, wherever chaos is at isn't a factor for or against its tier or placement in the cosmology.
But overall that's fine, you can disagree. We are aiming to convince the staff here, not regular users.
There are a ton of Higher dimensional shit in the wiki that aren't physical and get the benefits, demon souls not being physical is irrelevant and humans interacting or not with demons is irrelevant either as it doesn't debunk or support anything of what I said.
This looks promising. What’s the current consensus on the 9D soul thing only applying to when they are in Nirvana?Interactivity is never a problem between HD and normal dimensional beings. Both can touch and feel each other just fine. Only difference is lower beings only Interact with limited portions of HD beings due to various axis beyond height/length/breadth being inaccessible.
Anyways. Chaos does qualify for Tier 1.
Tiering System FAQ
A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...vsbattles.fandom.com
We qualify for all of the above with flying colours.
1) We have relationship between DW and HW as explained by Sevil/Tony and even you acknowledged. HW is merely a line compared to DW. In the FAQ portion I highlighted above, when something is "flat" compared to HD stuff that can be enough for Tier 1 in some cases.
What we have is FAR MORE IMPRESSIVE...
HW is line compared to DW. This is not just a simple 2D vs 3D comparison....this is outriggt 1D vs 3D...
2) HW is 4D spacetime continuum originally created by DW and was embedded in it, i.e lower dimensions being embedded in higher dimensions. Which is also qualifyinh factor in the highlighted FAQ portion above.
3) If above 2 reasons were not enough we have DW being infinite/endless compared to HW. Another qualifying factor considered acceptable by FAQ portion highlighted above.
And this is just Demon World. We aren't asking for Tier 1, we are asking for Tier 1 Chaos which is verbatim called Higher Dimensional of 9D nature. Chaos isn't an external realm divorced from DW, its a state of existence which predates creation of DW&HW. So basically its something that contains DW&HW inside it whenever they were born inside i, i.e DW&HW are embedded inside it. Quite a common trope in fictional creation stories. Example God of War Chaos/Yggdrasil from Greece/Norse myth. Only in case of DMC we have stated dimensional differences between container and contained.
So in short we qualify healthily as required by FAQ protion above to make Chaos Tier 1.
No tiering stuff to be made ATM. Souls only get HDE as of now until further content arrives.This looks promising. What’s the current consensus on the 9D soul thing only applying to when they are in Nirvana?
A lot has changed since we last discussed this. I'll talk this with you on discord in a few hrs... i am outside now.This looks promising. What’s the current consensus on the 9D soul thing only applying to when they are in Nirvana?
Got exams so I say we delay that talk by a week. There's some other stuff I want to discuss with you as well.A lot has changed since we last discussed this. I'll talk this with you on discord in a few hrs... i am outside now.
I'll reply to @Bobsican in a few hrs...sorry been busy these few days.
It already has been brought up several times, I'm not going to repeat myself just because you aren't reading.Okay, how the DW sees the HW as "insignificant", once again? Assuming this is based on stuff that wasn't brought up here already and all.
Oh would you look at that, it's almost like there are a **** ton of examples for this.Such as? You bring up this being a common thing on the site yet don't bring up proper examples where this has been accepted and all from what I can see.
The soul of a demon being incorporeal does harm the argument of regular HW beings not being able to interact with them as it can less assumptively be said that it's just a lack of NPI, rather than souls being higher-d (more specifically for the purposes of tier 1) and thus dimensionally inaccessible.
I'm getting tired of people not ******* reading the scans and then coming here demanding shit.Now back on the Chaos section...
1: Which is the scan in question over Chaos then?
Meaning that they're roughly equivalent (unless this split is talking of something else, which is unlikely), and so arguments over the HW being "insignificant" to the DW for the purposes of tier 1 in particular are nonsense. I'd also appreciate further elaboration on the "the fact that the demon world has always been treated as some higher form of existence compared to it", as no citations are given here beyond the scan that has been brought up, and this still seems just ridiculous to support tier 1 to say the least.As for the whole ray of light stuff and all, I'd be on support of it on second thought as it'd simply be smaller than the DW out of the latter being stated to be endless (Although I'd still not be on support of saying it's seen as "a line", illumination isn't inherently 1-D and it isn't even called "a line" or similar in the scan in question, but rather out of the DW simply being significantly bigger), but then in the same scan it also says "the universe was eventually split in two".
We never claimed the Human world was infinite, only the Abyss. Going back to what I said some post ago, read carefully what i'm saying.3: I'll be fair and say that dividing an infinite thing by a finite amount doesn't necessarily means that each individual result is also infinite, as only 1 of them requires to be infinite, however, it'd still imply that the rest are infinite as well (I talked about this to Ultima Reality before). In other words as the HW came from the DW as a split from it, there's the implication that the HW is infinite as well, meaning that they'd be even more comparable and so the arguments of the DW seeing the HW as "insignificant" (Especially for the purposes of tier 1) seems even more questionable, I'm afraid.
I already provided enough context, whether you find it enough or not doesn't really matter for this thread- Something being stated to be higher-dimensional isn't enought, context matters and all, especially for the tiering system which doesn't abide to the common misuse of it in fiction as simply another reality or the like.
- Souls being a 9-D thing also isn't inherently a tier 1 thing either, otherwise I can argue for tier 1 Spongebob out of the 9-D Giant Monkey Man, or tier 1 Popeye out of fighting a being from a 13-D dimension, which is a no. Simply put, context is required and assumptions should be avoided as much as possible, especially on such high tiers.
- The souls of demons predating existence and whatever keeps room for the plausability as said before, so this is a valid point, but at the same time it's far from enought as said before.
- The Chaos argument appears to rely a lot on the first point with the whole "ray of light" stuff, so I'd still decline it as several of the aspects in these arguments just don't hold weight so far.
Also, I may not be staff, but I've been on the site for years and am aware of tier 1 standards, I've talked with Ultima and some others on the topic of tier 1 in general for a while for a verse of mine and I've even managed to get another verse to tier 1. So to ignore my input out of not being staff just comes as ignorant and counterproductive (Like, the whole reason we're doing this argument in the first place is to corroborate if this really qualifies for tier 1 or not, not to just gather another vote that may not even matter anyways out of the appeal to popularity fallacy and all).
Have you thought the reason why I am arguing all of this is because I was the one to propose it? That I was the one to make Sevil change the thread from what it was to this.In fact, you aren't staff either, yet are still contributing significantly on the matter as well, so if you're in doubt we can just drop this and let the staff decide for us, this is a staff forum thread and all.
Ray and line are same in essence, one has direction while other doesn't. Visuals are irrelevant here, they are incapable of displaying size comparison between HW and DW. They are relegated to emphasizing thematic differences between both. The text is what blatantly informs us about the structural comparison between HW and DW. Entire creation story about HW and DW in here is as literal as it gets. Its verbatim stated that HW is a Ray/Line born within the endless/infinite Darkness that is the DW.Such as?
As for the Chaos stuff...
1: What justifies it being a line compared to it, again? If it's only visuals then it seems rather assumptive to say the least, as not only it's clearly portrayed with at least two dimensions (more specifically details that can't fit in 1 dimension, check the borders of the "ray"), we see the sillouette of a demon and a human in it (And it's a "ray of light", not "a line"), so it seems like an artistic portrayal that can't be taken that literally even then.
I don't know why you keep bringing up interactivity here. This is antithesis to what our standards say. I already explained why its a non factor so I ain't gonna repeat my self.2: Hm... that does seem supportive, but not enought on its own, but it also relies on the previous point anyways, so the above has to be justified better for this to hold weight as well. Also, this would imply that the Demon World is 5-D for the sake of the argument, no? In which case the before-mentioned issue of beings of the HW being able to interact with the ones of the DW with no issue dimensionality wise holds up.
Dude, text in manga is simple and straightforward. I don't why you'd require more explanation for it. Its fifth grade english comprehension.3: If it's infinite/endless compared to the Human World, then that could use more context, if you meant it simply being stated to be so unlike it, then it'd be supportive, I think.
You do realise we have more than one scan and explanations for our proposal....all of what you just said is rendered irrelevant when we have already mentioned the particular "realm" from demons hail which is supposed to be 1C.As for the rest, it doesn't predate the creation of the DW&HW necessarily, look at the wording carefully:
"From the moment of their birth, names are one of the most sacred things to demons. They represent not only power, but also the concept of their own existence, the basic principles of which predate even the creation of the demon world itself. "
This all sounds good and all until you notice "the basic principles of which predate..." basically leading into the meaning overall being that names (and souls by extension) simply not having their existence bound to the Demon World's, so to claim without a proper justification that the place where souls come from are dimensionally superior just out of a fancy state of existence and a 9-D statement seems quite overly assumptive to say the least, so I'd still disagree with souls being tier 1.
Thats like asking for proof for 2+2=4. Its simple logic man. DW predates HW, HW was born inside DW. Similarly Chaos predates DW and DW was born inside it. Its like simple logical reasoning aside from being one of the most common ways of depicting creation stories in fiction. What I said is the most default explanation anyone would come up with after seeing these scans.However, I'd appreciate a scan of what justifies the claim of the HW and the DW being inside Chaos, as that'd be supportive, but I don't see a citation in the post and all.
You will send me into crippling depression right now. Life is not good as it is....and here you are stating inaccurate principles ad nauseum which is just turning my patience into swiss cheese. There's no such thing as uninteractible between lower dimensional and higher dimensional beings. When 3D dimensional beings interact with higher dimensional beings say for example 4D beings they will only touch or sense the 3 dimensional portions of these HDE beings...the remaining extra dimensions will remain inaccessible.Such as? You bring up this being a common thing on the site yet don't bring up proper examples where this has been accepted and all from what I can see. The soul of a demon being incorporeal does harm the argument of regular HW beings not being able to interact with them as it can less assumptively be said that it's just a lack of NPI, rather than souls being higher-d (more specifically for the purposes of tier 1) and thus dimensionally inaccessible.
Here's another translation...1: Which is the scan in question over Chaos then? As for the whole ray of light stuff and all, I'd be on support of it on second thought as it'd simply be smaller than the DW out of the latter being stated to be endless (Although I'd still not be on support of saying it's seen as "a line", illumination isn't inherently 1-D and it isn't even called "a line" or similar in the scan in question, but rather out of the DW simply being significantly bigger), but then in the same scan it also says "the universe was eventually split in two".
There's absolutely nothing comparable about HW and DW. And there's nothing ambiguous about relation between HW and DW. Its as simple as it states. These are the same reasons Ultima, Elizhaa and Crimson agreed to upgrades originally. Only difference now is we convinced Sevil that there's not enough evidence for DW being same as Chaos so only Chaos would get the upgrade. So technically we still have staff approval for reasona which convinced them about Tier 1 Chaos in the first place.Meaning that they're roughly equivalent (unless this split is talking of something else, which is unlikely), and so arguments over the HW being "insignificant" to the DW for the purposes of tier 1 in particular are nonsense. I'd also appreciate further elaboration on the "the fact that the demon world has always been treated as some higher form of existence compared to it", as no citations are given here beyond the scan that has been brought up, and this still seems just ridiculous to support tier 1 to say the least.
You know when I first suggested this way back to other members of DMC team they practically institutionalized me for "wanking" the size of HW over such logic. But yesterday's wank is today's downplay I guess. No offense meant to you but just something I found ironic and funny.3: I'll be fair and say that dividing an infinite thing by a finite amount doesn't necessarily means that each individual result is also infinite, as only 1 of them requires to be infinite, however, it'd still imply that the rest are infinite as well (I talked about this to Ultima Reality before). In other words as the HW came from the DW as a split from it, there's the implication that the HW is infinite as well, meaning that they'd be even more comparable and so the arguments of the DW seeing the HW as "insignificant" (Especially for the purposes of tier 1) seems even more questionable, I'm afraid
Be that as it may, even we had staff approval months before posting 1C and they even accepted it on past threads for Chaos/DW.Also, I may not be staff, but I've been on the site for years and am aware of tier 1 standards, I've talked with Ultima and some others on the topic of tier 1 in general for a while for a verse of mine and I've even managed to get another verse to tier 1. So to ignore my input out of not being staff just comes as ignorant and counterproductive (Like, the whole reason we're doing this argument in the first place is to corroborate if this really qualifies for tier 1 or not, not to just gather another vote that may not even matter
I mean duh... if we proposed it originally we need post our reasons and defend it right??In fact, you aren't staff either, yet are still contributing significantly on the matter as well, so if you're in doubt we can just drop this and let the staff decide for us, this is a staff forum thread and all.
Tier 1 BB is a meme tbh
All that's left to do is decide whether souls qualify for above 3D HDE or 9D(1-C) HDE.So has what was accepted here been applied yet?
Uhhh no. Don't misinform. No once has 3D been mentioned, nor is there such thing as 3D HDE. We are only discussing 1C smurf.All that's left to do is decide whether souls qualify for above 3D HDE or 9D(1-C) HDE.
As I and many have been have been saying for many days now... everything in OP has already been discussed and applied to pages.So has what was accepted here been applied yet?
no? the 9D souls dont really give any hax potency on their own no one is saying otherwise. now whether the higher dimension that creates Said souls is tier 1 is up for debateYeah no, I don't understand why this needs to be dragged on for so long? If the souls can't destroy a 9D realm or exist as that size, they aren't 9D. As Ultima said, existing in a higher dimension does not give you higher AP. In this case, it does not give flat 9D hax, only an indeterminately higher dimensional hax.
I said above 3D becauseUhhh no. Don't misinform. No once has 3D been mentioned, nor is there such thing as 3D HDE. We are only discussing 1C smurf.
HDE is just a broad term for anything that isn't 3D.
So we needs to be decided is if you will need 9D range to affect souls or if 4D range will be enough.Anything above 3-D can be HDE.
Agreed. We should probably move on to applying what has been accepted here now.Yeah no, I don't understand why this needs to be dragged on for so long? If the souls can't destroy a 9D realm or exist as that size, they aren't 9D. As Ultima said, existing in a higher dimension does not give you higher AP. In this case, it does not give flat 9D hax, only an indeterminately higher dimensional hax.
Doesn't apply to demons here so irrelevant.I said above 3D because
If you had read other comments you would realise that particular topic has already been decided.So we needs to be decided is if you will need 9D range to affect souls or if 4D range will be enough.