DMC PoC continued

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah then I'm fine with everything.

 

[Deadguy]

So since the votes have changed let's summarize it once more

Agree:Ultima,elizhaa,DDM,confluctor,sir ovens,darkgrath,crimson,lordgriffin,ant(HDE)

Neutral:both ant and moritzva on high godly regeneration(tho moritzva is also leaning towards agreement)

Disagree:glass,moritzva(HDE)

I believe this is enough right?

 

[Antvasima]

So since the votes have changed let's summarize it once more

Agree:Ultima,elizhaa,DDM,confluctor,sir ovens,darkgrath,crimson,lordgriffin,ant(HDE)

Neutral:both ant and moritzva on high godly regeneration(tho moritzva is also leaning towards agreement)

Disagree:glass,moritzva(HDE)

I believe this is enough right?

It is probably enough, yes.

 

[Deadguy]

Alright this thread can be closed in that case

 

[Antvasima]

The changes need to be applied first.

 

[Sevil Natas]

I can apply the accepted stuff, although it's best to not close this yet since there's some more things that @Tony_di_bugalu brought up that still need to be discussed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I have seen people are confused on why we proposed High-Godly here among other stuff so I wanted to give a quick explanation about everything and how is presented in verse:

First of all Names

A Demon's name is something special, more important than other verses. We are told that To them a name is "truth"... more than those forms they take, it is said that the name of a demon is closer to its true substance, like heirs to a family they model themselves after the meaning of the name but this is only from the research Arkham has gathered, in reality the name and its significance is much more complex and deeper than that.

In reality the power of a name is much more, from the moment demons come into existence the names are the most sacred thing to them, they not only represent power but also the very concept of their own existence, basic principles that predate the creation of even the creation of the demon world itself.

These names and its importance goes beyond the scope of the demon world and you shall see why...

A Demon's soul

As you probably saw in the scan above, the name which is the most sacred thing for a demon as it is their very concept is nothing but a part of their souls. It manifests itself as part of the soul that forms them, and their dark hearts.

But there is more to the souls.

Souls are "objects" that hold many mysteries that neither Humans or Demons understand but that every soul has. The soul as we know now thanks to Peak of Combat is a basic nine-dimensional form, generally speaking, it originates from and returns to a higher dimension beyond the Eightfold Path. But that's not all as it contains the mind and memory, but also contains all the information of the body and its ancestors since ancient times.

This goes in line with what Arkham told us, if you recall, as the name (which demons mold themselves after) is nothing but just a part of the souls demons have.

In short a soul in Devil May Cry contains every aspect of existence for Demons, from minds to information and even their concept.

High Godly regeneration?

As for why we proposed this? With PoC info dumb we got another interesting data about demons.

They are creatures that have existed since before the creation of the human world, spawned by the primordial chaos that preceded reality and formed by the demon world. All but the weakest demons do not care what they lose, their bodies, their names, their souls or everything, as long as they persist they can regenerate and continue fighting without rest.

Demons are basically being whose existences predate even the basic principles of the demon world and as such they also predate the human world (which is our world) and all but the weakest of them can continue fighting even if they lose everything, body, mind, soul and name (concept), they will come back and continue their eternal fight.

This description is pretty much what we use as High-Godly currently since they can come back from the destruction of all their existence including their very concept.


Tier 1 souls?

As I explained above souls are not only stated to be a 9D object but they also come and go from a higher dimension, a higher dimension that is beyond the scope of the demon world as their name already predates even its more basic principles. This higher dimension most likely being the primordial chaos that spawned them, mind you this primordial chaos and the demon world aren't the same at least until poc goes against me

Just for clarification, the Demon World is an infinite sized place that dwarfs the existence of the Human World, with the latter being described as just a small ray of light that came into existence within the endless darkness. With names and soul by default being beyond it in a higher dimension, I think it qualifies for Tier 1 hax.

Basically the very last part

 

[Deadguy]

Basically for those who didn't get it since tony is lazy and drunk tony is saying that since 9D souls is accepted then the the following haxs will be upgraded to 1C because soul houses these aspects of their being as well(note only haxs not AP) which is soul manipulation,conceptual manipulation,mind manipulation,information manipulation and memory manipulation all these haxs that I mentioned will also upgraded to 1C[/S]

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

It doesn't need to said cuz its quite obvious to everyone..

 

[Antvasima]

Tell us here when the changes have been applied.

 

[Antvasima]

Basically for those who didn't get it since tony is lazy and drunktony is saying that since 9D souls is accepted then the the following haxs will be upgraded to 1C because soul houses these aspects of their being as well(note only haxs not AP) which is soul manipulation,conceptual manipulation,mind manipulation,information manipulation and memory manipulation all these haxs that I mentioned will also upgraded to 1C

No characters will be upgraded to 1-C in any way, just get HDE and High-Godly regeneration.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah the 9D thing does not constitute any real dimensions, so HDE will just be indeterminately higher than 3D.

 

[Deadguy]

It doesn't need to said cuz its quite obvious to everyone..

Who knows maybe someone still didn't get it besides tony only said read the last part so it could create some confusion on what he is trying to say

and because tony is lazy and drunk

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Yeah the 9D thing does not constitute any real dimensions, so HDE will just be indeterminately higher than 3D.

Im lazy and this has gone for far too long but as things are we have:

Chaos: The primal existence that created demons, most likely this higher dimensional realm where the 9D soul are created and go back.

Demon World: The primordial darkness that created the Human World and gave shape to demons (It dwarfs the entirety of the Human world)

Human world: our human world :v

This 9D thing is basically the chaos stuff, this doesn't scale to AP for NOBODY, no one gets tier 1 AP but HAX instead as the soul is from that place.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also for everyone's information so there is no confusion... this is all already accepted by mods on site and off site(Ultima, Elizhaa, Crimson). We just decided to postpone Demon Worlds AP for next thread in future.
This is NOT AP, just smurf hax for souls.

Also everything proposed for addition to profiles has been successfully indexed.
What we are doing now is just clarification informal question/answer thingy.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Chaos: The primal existence that created demons, most likely this higher dimensional realm where the 9D soul are created and go back.

I not trying to stonewall the thread but
When all supporters (and in specific the original OP) agreed to go with this take?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I not trying to stonewall the thread but
When all supporters (and in specific the original OP) agreed to go with this take?

You seem to be confused.
HDE is agreed on this thread based on a scan which says souls are 9D who originate and return to some higher dimension. Whatever its named in scan.

 

[Deadguy]

You seem to be confused.
HDE is agreed on this thread based on a scan which says souls are 9D who originate and return to some higher dimension. Whatever its named in scan.

I believe he is more referring that the higher dimension thing existing in the demon realm as tony is arguing to be beyond it

I not trying to stonewall the thread but
When all supporters (and in specific the original OP) agreed to go with this take?

Efite we gonna discuss it in later threads it's not like it will effect any of the proposals anyway

 

[EFÍTÉ]

HDE is agreed on this thread based on a scan which says souls are 9D who originate and return to some higher dimension. Whatever its named in scan.

I mean, to be more clear
The take where demon world and Chaos being separated worlds.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I believe he is more referring that the higher dimension thing existing in the demon realm as tony is arguing to be beyond it

That's been his stance since his very first post in last thread 2 months ago in November. Just look it up I guess. He opposed the Proposal and offered a different perspective.

I mean, to be more clear
The take where demon world and Chaos being separated worlds.

The scan says is verbatim doesn't it? They are mentioned separately. One created souls, second created their physical forms.

 

[Deadguy]

btw gil the mods that you have mentioned (Ultima,elizhaa and crimson) are the ones who accepted 1C smurf hax right?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

btw gil the mods that you have mentioned (Ultima,elizhaa and crimson) are the ones who accepted 1C smurf hax right?

My comment was in context of Tony's comment. More specifically a callback to when 1C was first accepted before. Tony cites the same logic before it was postponed.

Lets not cause anymore confusion here. I have discussed and contacted @Elizhaa just wait for their approval. Lets just be patient and stop meanwhile.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

The scan says is verbatim doesn't it? They are mentioned separately. One created souls, second created their physical forms.

The only verbatim thing about the scan is it predates human world. Other scans implies the existence of chaos and demon world at the same time period, they shared the same level of ''relation'' as human world and demon world, demon world and nirvana realms etc. Another scan says The first light that originates the human world, divided human world from the demon world and also affected Chaos, making stones with full power of the original chaos (Yes it says original chaos), appear in the demon world.
Yes, they are separated realms, but not in the way tony is proposing.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

What Tony is talking about is Chaos as void before creation. Exact same as God of War creation story.
What you and manga talk about are Chaos as in Chaos Manip hax performed by DW.
They are connected but not same. One is state of existence before creation....other is a property of another realm.

Chaos has more than one meaning in English, DMC uses both for different things in different context.
Scan for high godly talks about First one, so does Tony.
What you and manga are talking about is second.

 

[KLOL506]

What Tony is talking about is Chaos as void before creation. Exact same as God of War creation story.
What you and manga talk about are Chaos as in Chaos Manip hax performed by DW.
They are connected but not same. One is state of existence before creation....other is a property of another realm.

Chaos has more than one meaning in English, DMC uses both for different things in different context.
Scan for high godly talks about First one, so does Tony.
What you and manga are talking about is second.

Don't you think that should be left for another CRT?

We all admit that the Chaos exists. Now whether that is the Demon World itself or a realm that predates the Demon World and exists separately from it, is another topic entirely. Y'all can tear each other's throats in that other thread.

We barely got 9-D HDE and Regen through, we still have the other Demon haxes to add as Sevil proposed in the previous thread that should've had met no resistance to begin with.

Other Abilities :

let's start with some new abilities of various low-level demons

fallen priest :
Existence Erasure and immortality type 5
Morning Banshee :
Immortality types 4 & 8 via being linked to their prey they can revive themselves even from death as long as their prey exists.
The angel of Damnation :
Curse Manipulation, Negation, and Healing
Kanigam :
Clairvoyance (Retrocognition Cosmic Awareness Precognition)

now. People with Sparda inheritance would get resistance to EE & Curse Manipulation. and Immortality negation types 4, 5 & 8 for being able to fight these demons without getting erased or cursed and for being able to kill the fallen priest & the morning banshee when she's linked to them. High tiers would get resistance to Kanigam's Precog as well

Now let's talk about Dante specifically in PoC he gets something called the book of demons. which seals its target's soul and transforms them into Data. he would gain sealing, absorption, Info analysis & Data manipulation from this. as well as another form of soul Manipulation. also people with Sparda inheritance would get resistance to it since it chooses its user based on if he's able to resist its power or not.

Y'all completely forgot about this.

Ignore the above abilities, seems like those have already been handled.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

We all admit that the Chaos exists. Now whether that is the Demon World itself or a realm that predates the Demon World and exists separately from it, is another topic entirely.

There's only 2 outcomes. Either it is, or it isn't. Heads or Tails. By default it isn't same, as the scan says. Sevil tried to prove otherwise.. but postponed. As it stands and as we have already accepted, by default as the scan suggests they are separate.

So there is no room for debate here. What Tony said is already accepted by inevitable logical conclusions for scan.
Lets wait for Elizhaa and not cause any confusions here.

Y'all completely forgot about this.

Everything is added look at physiology page.

 

[KLOL506]

There's only 2 outcomes. Either it is, or it isn't. Heads or Tails. By default it isn't same, as the scan says. Sevil tried to prove otherwise.. but postponed. As it stands and as we have already accepted, by default as the scan suggests they are separate.

So there is no room for debate here. What Tony said is already accepted by inevitable logical conclusions for scan.
Lets wait for Elizhaa and not cause any confusions here.

Aight.

Everything is added look at physiology page.

Yeah, my bad, sorry, I just checked.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

What Tony is talking about is Chaos as void before creation. Exact same as God of War creation story.
What you and manga talk about are Chaos as in Chaos Manip hax performed by DW.
They are connected but not same. One is state of existence before creation....other is a property of another realm.

Chaos has more than one meaning in English, DMC uses both for different things in different context.
Scan for high godly talks about First one, so does Tony.
What you and manga are talking about is second.

Uhh not really
Chaos in the first panel of the manga is the same chaos here, not disagreeing with chaos hax since the second page of the manga does state that.
And Arkham in the manga is talking about how chaotic the conflict between demon world and human world was before sparda came.
The relation example, is just to show they have connection and isn't just two disconnected places. Which is my point.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah I'm saying your "9D hax" isn't real. Like the realm hasn't been proven to be of true dimensions. HDE is just a broad term for anything that isn't 3D.

 

[Deadguy]

Yeah I'm saying your "9D hax" isn't real. Like the realm hasn't been proven to be of true dimensions. HDE is just a broad term for anything that isn't 3D.

Say if the 9D souls aren't real how they gonna have HDE in the first place?

 

[LordGinSama]

Say if the 9D souls aren't real how they gonna have HDE in the first place?

Anything above 3-D can be HDE.

 

[Deadguy]

Anything above 3-D can be HDE.

Yea I know but if you took away the 9D statement scan then how can you say it's HDE since without the "basic nine dimensional form" statement from you where you gonna get HDE for them?

 

[LordGinSama]

Yea I know but if you took away the 9D statement scan then how can you say it's HDE since without the "basic nine dimensional form" statement from you where you gonna get HDE

4-D scaling to the Demon World I'd imagine since Demon Souls originate from there from what I recall.


I'm neutral on the 9-D soul thing myself, I'm just clarifying to be clear.

 

[Deadguy]

4-D scaling to the Demon World I'd imagine since Demon Souls originate from there from what I recall.


I'm neutral on the 9-D soul thing myself, I'm just clarifying to be clear.

Well here some news for ya tony and gilver are arguing that realm to exists beyond the demon realm

 

[Deadguy]

Plus nobody argued that demon realm is where they gonna get HDE since the demon realm itself isn't 4D but it's haxs since it can spread across space-time continuum

 

[LordGinSama]

I'm pretty sure the Demon Realm is accepted as a 4-D structure.

 

[Deadguy]

I'm pretty sure the Demon Realm is accepted as a 4-D structure.

Well yeah it seems I ****** up in this part my bad

 

[Sevil Natas]

Yeah I'm saying your "9D hax" isn't real. Like the realm hasn't been proven to be of true dimensions. HDE is just a broad term for anything that isn't 3D.

The Soul It continues to hide mysteries that humans and demons don't understand, mysteries but every human has such. A basic nine-dimensional form, generally speaking, it originates from and returns to a higher dimension beyond the Eightfold Path. It not only contains the mind and memory, but also contains all the information of the body and its ancestors since ancient times

the statement is talking about Higher spatial Dimensions, not dimensions as in realms or string dimensions, so yes these are true dimensions.

 

[Bobsican]

Bump.