DMC Downgrades (the ones everyone expected)

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I mean, I'm pretty sure a 9-D being/soul/item has no issues living in a lower dimensional realm, ie Human's souls living in a 4-D structure, aka a Space-time continoum/Universe.

So I agree that trying to prove the Demon world it's 9D becouse it contains a 9D object is kinda whacky lol.
However, this doesn't dismish 9D soul stuff, so Demons would still have 9D Hax anyways.

The only thing changing here is that no one would scale to 1-C in regards of AP.


Btw, I agree with the Low 1-C option, seems the best for now.

 

[Robo432343]

Why was 1-C dmc even accepted in the first place if dat was the case

 

[Scottycj256]

Why was 1-C dmc even accepted in the first place if dat was the case

because it was useless trying to argue against the wankers

there's always a particular person or group that makes it significantly harder to scale things correctly because of bias, whether its for or against

DC, Bleach, SAO, Fate, etc. all have stubbornly insufferable ***** that are impossible to argue with and it gets on my nerves talking about these verses cuz of these people

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Why was 1-C dmc even accepted in the first place if dat was the case

̶N̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶t̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶D̶M̶C̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶9̶D̶ ̶s̶m̶u̶r̶f̶ ̶H̶a̶x̶.̶ ̶S̶o̶ ̶G̶G̶

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

because it was useless trying to argue against the wankers

there's always a particular person or group that makes it significantly harder to scale things correctly because of bias

DC, Bleach, SAO, Fate, etc. all have stubbornly insufferable ***** that are impossible to argue with and it gets on my nerves talking about these verses cuz of these people

̶D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶ ̶b̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶C̶o̶m̶i̶c̶v̶i̶n̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶S̶p̶a̶c̶e̶b̶a̶t̶t̶l̶e̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶:̶

 

[Vietthai96]

Why was 1-C dmc even accepted in the first place if dat was the case

Iirc Ultima allow it to pass as he is fine, since the logic is reasonable as in the thread Demon Realm is an infinitely large 9 dimensional realm and infinitely larger than 4D Human World. Idk what is his stance now on the matter

 

[Robo432343]

wait. Is the soul 9D or is the realm 9D???

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Iirc Ultima allow it to pass as he is fine, since the logic is reasonable as in the thread Demon Realm is an infinitely large 9 dimensional realm and infinitely larger than 4D Human World. Idk what is his stance now on the matter

He doesn't want to participate in any thread anymore.

So we better call DT instead?

̶S̶i̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶y̶o̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶S̶t̶a̶f̶f̶ ̶m̶e̶m̶b̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶,̶ ̶s̶h̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶l̶e̶d̶g̶e̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

wait. Is the soul 9D or is the realm 9D???

Only the soul. But a HD object can still exist in a lower D space, so .....

 

[Robo432343]

thats why i think it should have possibly 1-c

 

[Scottycj256]

He doesn't want to participate in any thread anymore.

NONE of the actually competent staff want 50 kilometers near this verse because of the sheer amount of wankers involved with it

KLOL ran away cuz he knew it was better for his sanity to give up

 

[Robo432343]

NONE of the actually competent staff want 50 kilometers near this verse because of the sheer amount of wankers involved with it

 

[Scottycj256]

also no absolutely no tier 1

2-C or nuke the verse

 

[Robo432343]

anyway, 9D DMC is kinda sus to me but its not because of OP's reasoning

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

also no absolutely no tier 1

2-C or nuke the verse

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

anyway, 9D DMC is kinda sus to me but its not because of OP's reasoning

Only the soul.....lol. No one scales to it in terms of raw AP

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

You guys rn.

 

[Robo432343]

You guys rn.

btw what do you think of this downgrade

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

No new arguements which haven't already been discussed in last upgrade threads.

Also my opinion for this thread.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I mean, I'm pretty sure a 9-D being/soul/item has no issues living in a lower dimensional realm, ie Human's souls living in a 4-D structure, aka a Space-time continoum/Universe.

So I agree that trying to prove the Demon world it's 9D becouse it contains a 9D object is kinda whacky lol.

It isn't that it contained it, it's that it created it. It's demonstrated with multiple statements that souls go to the demon world upon death, and that demons (which are souls) were spawned from it. It's not possible to create a 9-D object with 5-D materials.

 

[Robo432343]

It isn't that it contained it, it's that it created it. It's demonstrated with multiple statements that souls go to the demon world upon death, and that demons (which are souls) were spawned from it. It's not possible to create a 9-D object with 5-D materials.

how does dante scale to this

 

[Vietthai96]

Scale to what???, if you mean the 9D soul then Dante attack demon at soul level

 

[Robo432343]

Scale to what???, if you mean the 9D soul then Dante attack demon at soul level

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Scale to what???, if you mean the 9D soul then Dante attack demon at soul level

To AP

 

[Random-Helper323]

It isn't that it contained it, it's that it created it. It's demonstrated with multiple statements that souls go to the demon world upon death, and that demons (which are souls) were spawned from it. It's not possible to create a 9-D object with 5-D materials.

In fact, the statement even says that the souls are created by and return to that same place, and we know human and demon souls go to the demon world upon death, unless they're destroyed. So we know the demon world creates the souls. So either a 5-D realm somehow forms 9-D things, or the demon world is 9-D.

 

[Robo432343]

yeah dante physically shouldnt scale to that smh

 

[Random-Helper323]

In fact, the statement even says that the souls are created by and return to that same place, and we know human and demon souls go to the demon world upon death, unless they're destroyed. So we know the demon world creates the souls. So either a 5-D realm somehow forms 9-D things, or the demon world is 9-D.

^^ so either a 5-D world can somehow spawn 9-D materials or that world which is already established to be higher dimensional is 9-D.

yeah dante physically shouldnt scale to that smh

Nightmare is stated to be able to physically lift and destroy the structure of the demon world. Dante beat him to death twice.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

In fact, the statement even says that the souls are created by and return to that same place, and we know human and demon souls go to the demon world upon death, unless they're destroyed. So we know the demon world creates the souls. So either a 5-D realm somehow forms 9-D things, or the demon world is 9-D.

I mean, it's not far fetched.

I mean, could it be possible that a 5-D realm creates 9-D stuff?

Fiction doesn't have to follow IRL logic/mechanics toe to toe.

So I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
A problem we commonly have sometimes is that we try to equate real life physics into a fictional world.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

People acting like we gave DMC 1C for destroying souls.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I mean, it's not far fetched.

I mean, could it be possible that a 5-D realm creates 9-D stuff?

Fiction doesn't have to follow IRL logic/mechanics toe to toe.

So I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.
A problem we commonly have sometimes is that we try to equate real life physics into a fictional world.

You contradict yourself.
You just said Human World shouldn't be able to inhabit HD souls by giving reason HD cannot fit inside lower D.

Now you use opposite logic for DW? Suddenly DW bring 5D alone for creating and containing 9D is fine?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

You contradict yourself.
You just said Human World shouldn't be able to inhabit HD souls by giving reason HD cannot fit inside lower D.

Now you use opposite logic for DW? Suddenly DW bring 5D alone for creating and containing 9D is fine?

I apologise for not explaning myself better.

I meant, I'm still pretty sure a Lower D space can contain a Higher D one.
I was arguing in favor of 9-D

I just pointed out that one of Random's points could also not be that far fetched, becouse there can be instances where a Lower D realm could/can create a Higher D object/being in fiction.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I just pointed out that one of Random's points might not be that far fetched, becouse there can be instances where a Lower D realm could/can create a Higher D object/being.

Except the realm is called Higher Dimensional.
HD souls originate and return to said HD realm. Read the statement again.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Except the realm is called Higher Dimensional.
HD souls originate and return to said HD realm. Read the statement again.

Ah yes I see, then I suppose 1-C is not that far fetched then.
Also, yeah, skimming a bit more through the thread, the arguments here were already debunked in the last upgrade threads for DMC.


So by now I'm neutral towards disagreeing with this thread. Would like to see more arguments from both sides.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Cool

 

[Random-Helper323]

I meant, I'm still pretty sure a Lower D space can contain a Higher D one.
I was arguing in favor of 9-D

Contain, yes. Creating and forming it on the other hand requires something more. If the space is forming the 9-D then it follows that it has to be working with some kind of 9-D material. Seems either that the world be 9-D itself, or at very least be working with 9-D energy, which would also mean something given that Nightmare can destroy the demon world.

I just pointed out that one of Random's points could also not be that far fetched, becouse there can be instances where a Lower D realm could/can create a Higher D object/being in fiction.

Contain, most definitely. Create, however, seems a bit much. We can point to lots of fictional examples of lower dimensions containing higher dimensional powers and the like, but not of creating it, at least not without the assistance of a verifiably seperate higher dimensional energy source.

Edit: I think it logically follows that in order to create billions of 9-D souls and powers, including ones that wield universal power, you at very least have to have a 9-D energy source, 9-D materials to work with.

In the case of DMC, we know that the demon world is the majority of the chaos, and that the demon world and the chaos both form these souls. We also know that the chaos was the entirety of existence as stated in the manga. So we can be fairly sure, unless something comes up about an even higher dimension than the demon world, that no other world or source exists besides the demon world and the chaos where that power and material source could be. So assuming that the resources come from elsewhere requires us to assume another power source exists above the chaos and demon world. This could be very interesting if they did it in a future game, but it doesn't currently exist.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Contain, most definitely. Create, however, seems a bit much. We can point to lots of fictional examples of lower dimensions containing higher dimensional powers and the like, but not of creating it, at least not without the assistance of a verifiably seperate higher dimensional energy source.

Yeah, pretty much this

 

[Random-Helper323]

Edit: I think it logically follows that in order to create billions of 9-D souls and powers, including ones that wield universal power, you at very least have to have a 9-D energy source, 9-D materials to work with.

In the case of DMC, we know that the demon world is the majority of the chaos, and that the demon world and the chaos both form these souls. We also know that the chaos was the entirety of existence as stated in the manga. So we can be fairly sure, unless something comes up about an even higher dimension than the demon world, that no other world or source exists besides the demon world and the chaos where that power and material source could be. So assuming that the resources come from elsewhere requires us to assume another power source exists above the chaos and demon world. This could be very interesting if they did it in a future game, but it doesn't currently exist.

^^ apologies, I added this afterwards and think it adds a bit to the discussion.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Given that the light eventually split the world in half, would this imply that:

1. The light changed state from a ray that doesn't split the world in half into a construct that splits the world in half
2. Either the light is infinite or the Demon World is finite

?

 

[Maxeez]

Following.

 

[Vietthai96]

Given that the light eventually split the world in half, would this imply that:

1. The light changed state from a ray that doesn't split the world in half into a construct that splits the world in half
2. Either the light is infinite or the Demon World is finite

?

What lol, no the light doesn't split the world in half, but before that there was one realm, then Pluto split thay realm into Human World and Demon Realm, the human world is the ray of light in an infinite darkness which is the Demom Realm