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I still think we should at least calculate the eclipse.
Eclipse feats are normally in the tier 5 range
Eclipse feats are normally in the tier 5 range
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Devil May Cry: Previously Inconclusive Feats
- Thread starter DarkGrath
- Start date
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What implies Malphas created them?
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Well, each one of the dimensions was filled with those strange purple rocks that only grow in Malphas body and in her "cave". So we know that the alternate dimensions are somehow related to her.
In the enemy files, Nico states that creating a nightmare version of Goliath (which V fights to rescue his familiars) is a waste of energy, so she is implying that the nightmare bosses (these aren't their actual names, but whatever) and the places they're in were created by someone. Besides Malphas, who else could have done it?
In the enemy files, Nico states that creating a nightmare version of Goliath (which V fights to rescue his familiars) is a waste of energy, so she is implying that the nightmare bosses (these aren't their actual names, but whatever) and the places they're in were created by someone. Besides Malphas, who else could have done it?
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Take whatever I say with a grain of salt, since I'm not really up for going in-depth due to having other things to do (such as hosting a viewing of Robo Vampire, check my contributions in a bit for a link), but I'll decrease my financial net worth by a good 50% by giving my two cents on some of these things.
-Savior
I don't like using a game aspect usually recognized as a nondigetic/non-narrative aspect, especially in a game as needing of padding as DMC4, so I see no need to apply this rather bizarre and underexplained outlook to the Savior's boss rush.
-Nightmare
The Nightmare dimension being of cosmic size is in the... REALM of possibility (don't ban me), but Nightmare for having this or Dante killing it doesn't = scaling. Otherwise we'd have High 3-A Kirby due to some statement or other saying his inhale takes enemies to an infinite trap dimension (I think Tier 3 Kirby is possible, but this is irrelevant). Having a pocket dimension inside oneself does not necessarily connote scaling power of similar size, if I'm not mistaken. Stuff like the TARDIS has other feats of similar scale to its pocket dimension size. If we interpret Nightmare's realm as being whatever size, it just collaborates Mundus a bit more for creating it, is all.
-Bolverk/Beowulf
Unsure why Bolverk even has a page, but whatever. Beowulf got stomped and blinded by Sparda, who also probably weakened him via sealing and whatnot, so I don't think Beowulf was in top shape in DMC3. Something similar might be said of Bolverk, who was likely defeated by Sparda after Sparda lost the Force Edge and whatnot. Even if he was 3-A when Dante beat him, (as opposed to having a Dry Bones regen thing going on) being brought to the verge of death probably softened him up for Lucia. I say we take a lowball interpretation for both since such an explanation would be most consistent and parsimonious.
-Tier 2 stuff
Too complex for me to do justice atm. Might be a case for it, but I defer to Kapt'n Kep for now. He might change my mind if I discuss with him later, anyway. But that can wait and probably needs its own thread. You guys should slow down on these threads, anyway; it's exam season and folks are tired.
-Savior
I don't like using a game aspect usually recognized as a nondigetic/non-narrative aspect, especially in a game as needing of padding as DMC4, so I see no need to apply this rather bizarre and underexplained outlook to the Savior's boss rush.
-Nightmare
The Nightmare dimension being of cosmic size is in the... REALM of possibility (don't ban me), but Nightmare for having this or Dante killing it doesn't = scaling. Otherwise we'd have High 3-A Kirby due to some statement or other saying his inhale takes enemies to an infinite trap dimension (I think Tier 3 Kirby is possible, but this is irrelevant). Having a pocket dimension inside oneself does not necessarily connote scaling power of similar size, if I'm not mistaken. Stuff like the TARDIS has other feats of similar scale to its pocket dimension size. If we interpret Nightmare's realm as being whatever size, it just collaborates Mundus a bit more for creating it, is all.
-Bolverk/Beowulf
Unsure why Bolverk even has a page, but whatever. Beowulf got stomped and blinded by Sparda, who also probably weakened him via sealing and whatnot, so I don't think Beowulf was in top shape in DMC3. Something similar might be said of Bolverk, who was likely defeated by Sparda after Sparda lost the Force Edge and whatnot. Even if he was 3-A when Dante beat him, (as opposed to having a Dry Bones regen thing going on) being brought to the verge of death probably softened him up for Lucia. I say we take a lowball interpretation for both since such an explanation would be most consistent and parsimonious.
-Tier 2 stuff
Too complex for me to do justice atm. Might be a case for it, but I defer to Kapt'n Kep for now. He might change my mind if I discuss with him later, anyway. But that can wait and probably needs its own thread. You guys should slow down on these threads, anyway; it's exam season and folks are tired.
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Hello everyone. I apologise for not being active on here for the past few days. I've been sick for quite a while now, and it has particularly flared up in the past few days. I'm still probably a bit too sick to go on here for too long, especially since just going on my phone or the computer for too long makes it quite a lot worse. Still, I'll try to involve myself in the debate when I can. Just letting you all know where I've been.
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What do you guys think about using the eclipse feat?Sparda 20000000 said:
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The Eclipse is Tier 5 and Argosax is already Tier 3, I don't see a reason to use that feat
It will be useful if a downgrade appears, however
It will be useful if a downgrade appears, however
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A small amount of argosax's power caused the eclipse arius at the end of the game gains a portion of argosax's power so the eclipse feat could be used to scale to arius, lucia as she did kill aruis and the rest of the lower tiers
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We can't scale the portion of Argosax's power that caused the Eclipse with Arius Possessed Form, they are completely different events
Also, Arius and Lucia don't scale to any other character in the series, so it would scale only to them, and Balrog since Lucia was stated to be weaker than him
Also, Arius and Lucia don't scale to any other character in the series, so it would scale only to them, and Balrog since Lucia was stated to be weaker than him
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Dante Demon Killah said:
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Arius could scale to sid they both took the powers of demons who are on par with one anotherDante Demon Killah said:
Could you explain why we couldn't use the eclipse feat?
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The eclipse feat is completely separate of Arius and we don't know how much power he gained from Argosax so the feat would only scale to God tiers who are already 3-A.
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Still stand by what I said.
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This has been pretty unanimously denied.
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Alright. I've taken a look through all of the discussion and support/rebuttals since I left (I've been quite sick recently, for those of you who didn't know, so I haven't been in a position to do in depth debating). I think some genuinely good points have been brought up on both sides of the argument, and for the opposing side Kepekley in particular has made some pretty good points. I'm going to try and quickly summarise my thoughts on the arguments thus far. Also, I apologise if I tangle my words a bit while writing. I'm still a bit sick, just well enough that I'm willing to further debate the topic.
Honestly, I've reached a relatively neutral stance on the 2-C debate. Quite simply, arguments revolving around space-time are outside my field of expertise, and it's clear I misunderstood quite a lot about timelines and separation. I'll do further research into the distinctions between separate space-times before officially agreeing/disagreeing with the 2-C tiering, mainly because I find the evidence on both sides to be somewhat inconclusive. Until then, consider me neutral.
However, I'm still in agreement with the High 3-A tiering in comparision. The definition of countable infinity is, to slightly paraphrase, an unending set. In the context of an "infinite sized universe", it would mean that the "set" of it's size is unending. As such, I don't see any reason to consider the various and consistent statements regarding the demon world as endless/unending to be invalid. Not only do we have the statements I mentioned in the main post, but we also have the extra statement from within the Sargasso's description about the demon world being unending.
To put it bluntly, I still see no problem with the demon world being considered infinite in size. There are almost no occassions in the entire series where a proper scale for the demon world has been shown, and in the cases I've provided they all consistently back eachother up in confirming the infinite size of the demon world. On top of that, as far as I've been able to find (since I've gone very in-depth attempting to find the scale of the demon world) there is not a single statement about the size of the demon world in the entire series that contradicts the statements I have shown. The demon world's size has barely been mentioned in the entire series, and every time it has been mentioned the given statements strongly imply the infinite size of the demon world. If it were finite, all of the statements about (for example) the "endless sea of the underworld" would be completely illogical and inconsistent.
To summarise, all in all I'm still fully confident in the High 3-A tiering I have suggested for feats related to the demon world. If there is still major doubt about it because of, say, the infrequency of the statements then I'm willing to compromise for something along the lines of "Likely High 3-A" instead.
When it comes to the Saviour, I'll admit, Follow Doctor Freeman makes a good point. It is a quite strange part of the game that could be assumed to be outside of the given narrative (especially in a series with a strong sense of ludonarrative dissonance like Devil May Cry). However, I must confess that I don't find this to be reasonable justification to say that it did not happen. You do still play through it, and we never assume other parts of the game to have simply never existed. The only reasons I can see to say that it did not happen are the fact that it is never shown in cutscenes (which honestly doesn't prove much, since there are no cutscenes during the sequence anyway) and the fact that it carries a strange, ethereal feel. Other than that though, the walls of text mentioned throughout may be in weird rhymes but they are still informative enough that passing it off as simply never happening would be outright odd.
In the end, I suppose I can see why considering this sequence to be real was a bit presumptuous of me, but at the same time I still don't find it particularly reasonable to consider it outright false based purely on obscure, almost irrelevant factors. I think a rating of either "Likely/Possibly 4-A" seems far more reasonable to me in hindsight. I'd like some input on this point.
I want to be clear about the Nightmare section that, while I have depicted the supporting opinion on it for the sake of insiting debate into a long-standing question, I am, and have always been unquestionably neutral on it. I still am now, so I really don't have much to say about it.
With the Bolverk section, I still believe that he should recieve a downgrade. His "Possibly 3-A" rating is based on having survived a battle with Sparda in the past, and having fought a casual DMC2 Dante. Problem is, neither of these are particularly applicable feats. If we consider having fought Sparda to be a Possibly 3-A feat, then that would scale to characters like Griffon and, as mentioned in the post, Beowulf. Fighting a casual Dante has never been an applicable feat either, as the same line of logic could be used for the sake of upgrading characters like Echidna, who fought a casual DMC4 Dante. You could argue that having done both of them accounts for more, but two wrongs don't make a right. Having two equally invalid feats to justify "Possibly 3-A" does not make either of them valid. As I mentioned, there were multiple ways to approach the situation, and I'm still quite confident that removing Bolverk's "Possibly 3-A" tier is the best approach.
And I think that about covers it! I apologise again if I tripped over on my words while writing this. I'm currently still sick and writing this late in the afternoon while painfully exhausted, so I'm probably not in any good position to be writing Hemingway novels to say the least. I hope my writing is at least legible.
Honestly, I've reached a relatively neutral stance on the 2-C debate. Quite simply, arguments revolving around space-time are outside my field of expertise, and it's clear I misunderstood quite a lot about timelines and separation. I'll do further research into the distinctions between separate space-times before officially agreeing/disagreeing with the 2-C tiering, mainly because I find the evidence on both sides to be somewhat inconclusive. Until then, consider me neutral.
However, I'm still in agreement with the High 3-A tiering in comparision. The definition of countable infinity is, to slightly paraphrase, an unending set. In the context of an "infinite sized universe", it would mean that the "set" of it's size is unending. As such, I don't see any reason to consider the various and consistent statements regarding the demon world as endless/unending to be invalid. Not only do we have the statements I mentioned in the main post, but we also have the extra statement from within the Sargasso's description about the demon world being unending.
To put it bluntly, I still see no problem with the demon world being considered infinite in size. There are almost no occassions in the entire series where a proper scale for the demon world has been shown, and in the cases I've provided they all consistently back eachother up in confirming the infinite size of the demon world. On top of that, as far as I've been able to find (since I've gone very in-depth attempting to find the scale of the demon world) there is not a single statement about the size of the demon world in the entire series that contradicts the statements I have shown. The demon world's size has barely been mentioned in the entire series, and every time it has been mentioned the given statements strongly imply the infinite size of the demon world. If it were finite, all of the statements about (for example) the "endless sea of the underworld" would be completely illogical and inconsistent.
To summarise, all in all I'm still fully confident in the High 3-A tiering I have suggested for feats related to the demon world. If there is still major doubt about it because of, say, the infrequency of the statements then I'm willing to compromise for something along the lines of "Likely High 3-A" instead.
When it comes to the Saviour, I'll admit, Follow Doctor Freeman makes a good point. It is a quite strange part of the game that could be assumed to be outside of the given narrative (especially in a series with a strong sense of ludonarrative dissonance like Devil May Cry). However, I must confess that I don't find this to be reasonable justification to say that it did not happen. You do still play through it, and we never assume other parts of the game to have simply never existed. The only reasons I can see to say that it did not happen are the fact that it is never shown in cutscenes (which honestly doesn't prove much, since there are no cutscenes during the sequence anyway) and the fact that it carries a strange, ethereal feel. Other than that though, the walls of text mentioned throughout may be in weird rhymes but they are still informative enough that passing it off as simply never happening would be outright odd.
In the end, I suppose I can see why considering this sequence to be real was a bit presumptuous of me, but at the same time I still don't find it particularly reasonable to consider it outright false based purely on obscure, almost irrelevant factors. I think a rating of either "Likely/Possibly 4-A" seems far more reasonable to me in hindsight. I'd like some input on this point.
I want to be clear about the Nightmare section that, while I have depicted the supporting opinion on it for the sake of insiting debate into a long-standing question, I am, and have always been unquestionably neutral on it. I still am now, so I really don't have much to say about it.
With the Bolverk section, I still believe that he should recieve a downgrade. His "Possibly 3-A" rating is based on having survived a battle with Sparda in the past, and having fought a casual DMC2 Dante. Problem is, neither of these are particularly applicable feats. If we consider having fought Sparda to be a Possibly 3-A feat, then that would scale to characters like Griffon and, as mentioned in the post, Beowulf. Fighting a casual Dante has never been an applicable feat either, as the same line of logic could be used for the sake of upgrading characters like Echidna, who fought a casual DMC4 Dante. You could argue that having done both of them accounts for more, but two wrongs don't make a right. Having two equally invalid feats to justify "Possibly 3-A" does not make either of them valid. As I mentioned, there were multiple ways to approach the situation, and I'm still quite confident that removing Bolverk's "Possibly 3-A" tier is the best approach.
And I think that about covers it! I apologise again if I tripped over on my words while writing this. I'm currently still sick and writing this late in the afternoon while painfully exhausted, so I'm probably not in any good position to be writing Hemingway novels to say the least. I hope my writing is at least legible.
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None of the statements provided about the Demon World are actually saying it is infinite in size, therefore there is no reason to accept it as such.
"Unending" and "endless" are not, and have never been used as primary evidence for High 3-A in this wiki. Both of those terms are noted in their very definitions to be hyperbolic, and even interpreting them literally, they actually don't entail something infinite in size. Our universe is endless by virtue of expanding infinitely and never having a set end, but it is still finite in size.
"Unending" and "endless" are not, and have never been used as primary evidence for High 3-A in this wiki. Both of those terms are noted in their very definitions to be hyperbolic, and even interpreting them literally, they actually don't entail something infinite in size. Our universe is endless by virtue of expanding infinitely and never having a set end, but it is still finite in size.
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Also, it is worth noting that the kanji translated as "unending" in the Japanese Raw is µ×£ÒüªÒü¬Òüì, which, according to Japanese dictionaries, is used to denote something astronomically large, not literally infinite.
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I agree with Kepe, as for Bolverk and Beowulf problem:
Beowulf was one demon on the level of Mundus generals (probably) and seeing this Sparda went to him, stomped him and sealed him along the tower to keep it "protected" from being ressurected again.
Bolverk on the other hand fought Sparda in the past (we don't know if he got stomped of they fough to some sort of standstill) but going by his wound I guess Sparda won without much inconvinience, thing is Bolverk fought with DMC2 Dante who just kills every demon on his way and this guy survived the firs battle and was ready for the second round.
So, Beowulf got stomped by sparda and sealed without trouble but Bolverk fought Sparda, survived and fought with Dante 2 times, survived the first one and was killed the second time.
Beowulf was one demon on the level of Mundus generals (probably) and seeing this Sparda went to him, stomped him and sealed him along the tower to keep it "protected" from being ressurected again.
Bolverk on the other hand fought Sparda in the past (we don't know if he got stomped of they fough to some sort of standstill) but going by his wound I guess Sparda won without much inconvinience, thing is Bolverk fought with DMC2 Dante who just kills every demon on his way and this guy survived the firs battle and was ready for the second round.
So, Beowulf got stomped by sparda and sealed without trouble but Bolverk fought Sparda, survived and fought with Dante 2 times, survived the first one and was killed the second time.
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Being new to this wiki, all I have to say is that Dante definitely is not baseline 3-A, and is likely a double, if not quadruple the baseline, purely through Argosax fusing two universes, and the fact that he absorbed an already universal weapon into himself, along with being at least above equal if not double that power already.
However, given the lacking evidence for the size of the demon world, other than it being "bigger" than the human world, I can't say definitively that he is anywhere above that. Still not a big presence in the 3-A tier, but definitely not fodder.
However, given the lacking evidence for the size of the demon world, other than it being "bigger" than the human world, I can't say definitively that he is anywhere above that. Still not a big presence in the 3-A tier, but definitely not fodder.
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Pretty sure we already take Dante as someone above baseline but not a big guy of the tier.
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He's already above baseline 3-A even in Base Form in DMC2, he's stronger in DMC4 and far stronger by the ends of DMC5
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Yeah, I'm just happy that he's up here really. I used a lot of the evidence provided in a debate between me and one of my friends about Dante vs Ichigo. it got... a little heated, moreso than I would've preferred. But pulling out a universal Dante was quite an intresting twist, and he did not at all like it.
I digress. I'm really just glad that he isn't fodder. Now, to find out just how hax Royal Guard is...
I digress. I'm really just glad that he isn't fodder. Now, to find out just how hax Royal Guard is...
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My apologies again for taking so long to get back to you all on the subject. I know I said I was in a position to be talking again, but... well, some personal stuff came up. I'm available to talk now.
For the High 3-A tiering, admittedly... I'm in a bit of a strange position regarding it. I agree with Kep now in the whole "unending" thing, mostly just because of the fact that it was not a perfect translation. If I'm being honest, I do still actually think the other statements are valid evidence to suggest the demon world is infinite in size. But considering the strict rulings and definitions required for this wiki, I'm not sure it qualifies as "enough" in the context. Point is, I still fully agree with it. And if more evidence comes to light, then I might even suggest it again in a future CRT. But for now, I'll drop the subject. Unless I also end up bringing up the 2-C tiering possibility later, it seems 3-A is still the most reliable tier to go off of here.
As for the whole Bolverk situation, I think Tony has made some really good points. Even so, I'm still not entirely sure myself. The main difference suggested between Bolverk and Beowulf here is that Beowulf was stomped and Bolverk could have been stomped, but without much other information. Given both that this wiki generally tends to favour downplay over wank (not a complaint, mind you, even though I'm aware it almost certainly sounds like one) and the fact that the scarring on his eye is, again, pretty much the same as what happened to Beowulf, I think it is far more reasonable to assume without further evidence that Bolverk was stomped by Sparda rather than being comparable. And again, I'm still really not so sure that scaling to a casual DMC2 Dante is best here. Bolverk may have survived the first battle with Dante, but considering that Dante doesn't just one-shot everything he fights (when his tier shows that should almost certainly be possible) I don't see this as a good indication. Also, even though it was a casual DMC2 Dante, Bolverk was shown to have been badly beaten and needed to retreat after the first battle. He may be a boss, sure, but apart from the somewhat dubious comparison to Sparda he hasn't shown any real feats that are far beyond the fodders in DMC2. I'm still fully willing to discuss this, if anyone has any major rebuttals. I'm not going to pretend that I'm the "be-all, end-all" of this discussion (my prior insistence on 2-C and High 3-A should be pretty clear evidence of this), so I'm fully willing to further debate the tiering of Bolverk.
For the High 3-A tiering, admittedly... I'm in a bit of a strange position regarding it. I agree with Kep now in the whole "unending" thing, mostly just because of the fact that it was not a perfect translation. If I'm being honest, I do still actually think the other statements are valid evidence to suggest the demon world is infinite in size. But considering the strict rulings and definitions required for this wiki, I'm not sure it qualifies as "enough" in the context. Point is, I still fully agree with it. And if more evidence comes to light, then I might even suggest it again in a future CRT. But for now, I'll drop the subject. Unless I also end up bringing up the 2-C tiering possibility later, it seems 3-A is still the most reliable tier to go off of here.
As for the whole Bolverk situation, I think Tony has made some really good points. Even so, I'm still not entirely sure myself. The main difference suggested between Bolverk and Beowulf here is that Beowulf was stomped and Bolverk could have been stomped, but without much other information. Given both that this wiki generally tends to favour downplay over wank (not a complaint, mind you, even though I'm aware it almost certainly sounds like one) and the fact that the scarring on his eye is, again, pretty much the same as what happened to Beowulf, I think it is far more reasonable to assume without further evidence that Bolverk was stomped by Sparda rather than being comparable. And again, I'm still really not so sure that scaling to a casual DMC2 Dante is best here. Bolverk may have survived the first battle with Dante, but considering that Dante doesn't just one-shot everything he fights (when his tier shows that should almost certainly be possible) I don't see this as a good indication. Also, even though it was a casual DMC2 Dante, Bolverk was shown to have been badly beaten and needed to retreat after the first battle. He may be a boss, sure, but apart from the somewhat dubious comparison to Sparda he hasn't shown any real feats that are far beyond the fodders in DMC2. I'm still fully willing to discuss this, if anyone has any major rebuttals. I'm not going to pretend that I'm the "be-all, end-all" of this discussion (my prior insistence on 2-C and High 3-A should be pretty clear evidence of this), so I'm fully willing to further debate the tiering of Bolverk.
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Worth noting that Bolverk is implied in the Artbook to be a Demon God.
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It's pretty abundantly clear Dante holds back and fights at a heavily restrained level purely because he enjoys fighting, and enjoys demon hunting. Were he not to hold back his level of power, no demon aside from the most powerful demons in the series even pose a modicum of a threat. So Bolverk surviving being evidence for a possibly 3-A tiering seems... a tad generous, to say the least.
Dante has shown that he will let demons that are far less powerful than him escape, a la Phantom and Griffon. It's likely that, once they begin to flee and Dante doesn't see them as a challenge (more akin to a form of entertainment really) anymore, Dante just lets them.
Dante has shown that he will let demons that are far less powerful than him escape, a la Phantom and Griffon. It's likely that, once they begin to flee and Dante doesn't see them as a challenge (more akin to a form of entertainment really) anymore, Dante just lets them.
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Are you sure tou played DMC2? The guy isn't the same there.
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Yeah dmc 2 Dante is more serious than his other incarnation
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DMC2 Dante may be quite more serious, but he is still very casual.
Though looking at the evidence, now that we have a scan saying that he was one of the demon gods... eh. I think this needs to be debated a bit more, but I suppose that having three different pieces of evidence that back eachother up and might be considered 3-A if you squint at them real hard... well, under those conditions, "Possibly 3-A" seems a bit more reasonable. Still, I'm willing to debate this further.
Though looking at the evidence, now that we have a scan saying that he was one of the demon gods... eh. I think this needs to be debated a bit more, but I suppose that having three different pieces of evidence that back eachother up and might be considered 3-A if you squint at them real hard... well, under those conditions, "Possibly 3-A" seems a bit more reasonable. Still, I'm willing to debate this further.
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The scan doesn't flat-out call him a Demon King/God, I was just pointing it out for discussion's sake. It is probably just supposed to mean he was worshipped by humans on a remote land overall.
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it said also he was reborn as an evil god and destroyed by sparda. No clue just figure it was note worthy
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Another point that I think should now be discussed (since my belief in High 3-A is now unlikely to be implemented, unless new evidence comes to light) is exactly how large the demon world is. That might be very difficult to find out, but it is undoubtedly one of the most important parts to determining how far beyond baseline the DMC God Tiers are (especially given that they are 3-A, which does not have a maximum). We can only really assume that the human world is the size of a baseline universe, but the demon world is quite different. The DMC3 Manga, while not giving any explicit senses of scale (apart from the potential infinite statement which, again, is probably not adequate proof) it is still clearly shown that the demon world is astronomical in size in comparison to the human world. This is further backed up by the literal translation of "unending" that Kepe mentioned, being astronomically large.
It's clear that the demon world is far, far larger than the human world, and especially given that a lot of scaling might involve multipliers here, this could either be minor or major depending on what size the demon world is and how other characters compare to these feats.
As an example, let's just go with something purely hypothetical; the demon world is 10x the size of the human world. So the feat of merging the two together would be around 11x baseline. DMC2 Dante very, very casually defeated Argosax, but still didn't quite one-shot him, so he would compare by being around 2x to 5x stronger (approximately, mind you, and just for the sake of example). In this case, this would put Dante around 22x to 55x beyond baseline 3-A. If we instead stated that the merging feat was 100x baseline 3-A and assumed the previous scaling to DMC2 Dante, that would put Dante around 200 to 500 times baseline.
Of course, don't take that precious example too seriously. It's based on practically nothing, and just meant to be hypothetical. My point is, if we want to get a good idea of just how strong the God Tiers of the DMC cast are, especially given that we're dealing with 3-A, we'll need to find something that gives an accurate size comparison between the human and demon worlds.
It's clear that the demon world is far, far larger than the human world, and especially given that a lot of scaling might involve multipliers here, this could either be minor or major depending on what size the demon world is and how other characters compare to these feats.
As an example, let's just go with something purely hypothetical; the demon world is 10x the size of the human world. So the feat of merging the two together would be around 11x baseline. DMC2 Dante very, very casually defeated Argosax, but still didn't quite one-shot him, so he would compare by being around 2x to 5x stronger (approximately, mind you, and just for the sake of example). In this case, this would put Dante around 22x to 55x beyond baseline 3-A. If we instead stated that the merging feat was 100x baseline 3-A and assumed the previous scaling to DMC2 Dante, that would put Dante around 200 to 500 times baseline.
Of course, don't take that precious example too seriously. It's based on practically nothing, and just meant to be hypothetical. My point is, if we want to get a good idea of just how strong the God Tiers of the DMC cast are, especially given that we're dealing with 3-A, we'll need to find something that gives an accurate size comparison between the human and demon worlds.
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The low 2C argument is still there...
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Low 2-C is supposed to be based on the Beastheads and I have asked several people for this supposed Low 2-C feat of theirs, with no elaborated response so far, so I'm assuming it doesn't exist.
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I think I heard about that one. Something to do with the beast heads having control over "past, present, and future" or something like that. I'll look into it further, I don't remember it perfectly.
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It isn't anything involving control of the past present and future.The Beastheads symbolized the past, present and future and the power of past, present and future is shown to not be literal.It's "past" power is represented by allowing the user to view past events throughout the universe and copy/learn techniques/abilities from beings who were apart of it, the "present" seems to be represented either by transforming the user into the Beastheads or the Reality Warping the Beastheads causes and the "future" represented by the Beastheads giving the user the ability to see into the future.
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