Devil May Cry: A Lore Revision

[SuperSonicTL]

Hello Ladies & Gentleman,​

Today I'm here to address prolly the most controversial topic on the verse as well as explaining the entire events of DMC lore from its origin to current era. Just to be sure, I'm keep referring to this thread throughout the whole addressing. So lets start:

Who Split The World?​

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So, uhh, this wiki gave birth to a character called Pluto in the Devil May Cry series, regarded as the previous Demon King before Mundus, who separated heaven and earth and all that jazz cuz of some instability (?) Shenanigans. However, there's a major issue here—such a character doesn't actually exist in the main series. His 'existence' comes from an old translation found in a particular library section that says, 'Pluto shall come on the promised date and separate heaven and earth. The one with black wings of treachery shall come and stand in Pluto's way.' But, alas, the original Japanese text doesn't mention Pluto at all. It merely says (king of the Underworld), not (Pluto) which makes it clear that it's referring to Mundus and also recontextualizes the rest of the statement to clarify it's talking about Sparda.

First and foremost, wiki didn't exactly gave birth to Pluto but Peak of Combat did that you decided to skim around through for reasons that I, or better, anybody with a common sense will never understand but lemme amuse this idea of yours too. Yes, this is true that this wiki already provided the concept of Pluto before the mobile game ever did & PoC just proved it that we were correct however you are implying that his "existence" solely comes from a translation that doesn't mention him whatsoever ehh? Hmmm... you probably are correct if these hints didn't exist which led us to making his profile before the game solidified it however, just for you, I made it much more in-depth then ever:

The Game Localization

Now frankly speaking this is a controversial topic on its own that stems from the fact that if we should take either Japanese localization or English localization seriously here but I wanna ask why are we not taking both into account at once? Because the game is developed by a Japanese company? The OP said that the Japanese translation doesn't mention his name but his title that seemingly talks about Mundus who is the ruler of underworld rather then a character who literally stems from English localization of the game. Now this raises alot of questions, why? First we need to understand that DMC isn't a series that is known for Japanese content, heck nobody knows Capcom as a Japanese company. Like brother they even have crossovers with American titles like Marvel and they take the international language just as seriously, heck, I'd say even more then their official language at occasions unlike any other Japanese titles for multitude of reasons like, for example, the fact that Itsuno actively is involved in the English translation and that the original mocap has the English translation in mind. Not to mention, the American/Western actors are the benchmark in Itsuno's eyes for how the characters are meant to be portrayed as the Japanese actors couldn't portray an authentic version of the character in Itsuno's eyes. This, and the fact that there are official English contents like this website and multiple guidebooks scattered around, ya'll really wanna disregard English version of the series? I can to some extent understand novels and manga as they are seemingly not really worked under Capcom but games are absolutely "no-no" condition as every line from their game is derived from the officially Capcom approved English guides that the Japanese texts are in contradiction on their own according to you even though beneath the surface they mean exactly the same thing whatsoever, just worded different & all these games are under the keen eyes of such a company that oversees their infamous title like such, an international series solely made for global audiences. The only reason the Japanese ones are released more often is due to the company being literally situated within the country so obviously they will have access to it prior to anybody else, that's no excuse for prioritization of the Japanese texts over English ones. That's without mentioning how English is even more prioritized by Japanese version having original English voice lines and pseudo-texts implemented within it in all games upto DMC3.

The Actual Lore

Alright, let us talk about other factors here that also solidifies this idea alongside Pluto. In official DMC PoC channel, the content creator literally word-on-word states and lemme quote "Pluto is the one that Mundus has slayed and that's why he became the King of Hell". Believe it or not, DMC's lore is actually quite simple regarding him. Aside from this scan that literally on point supported by this specific WoG from Kamiya who worked on DMC1 mind you, there is Brady's guidebook (an official English guide) too that states and I quote: "Mundus slayed the former God of Evil" & you can clearly see the resemblance from the previous statement and this one. But it isn't over here as the next line is even more hilarious as it later states and, again, I quote: "Then the overlord planned to break through the thin veil separating the Underworld from the human world, uniting the land of eternal darkness with the world of light" which literally depicts this scan from DMC3 with same exact comparison and context (Eternal Darkness, World of Light) soo the most likely case would be Pluto existing within the main story as well as splitting the world as the implementation of a thin veil can only be done by him then anyone else. However this is argued against as Light (Human World) removing itself from Darkness (Demon World) which I'm going to address later in detail as to why it makes absolutely ZERO sense whatsoever.

Manga Statements​

Aside from all these evidences that should end this debate, I took my time to revise the entire lore again from scratch that needed me to look into the manga francisco that the OP used to prove it was actually Mundus who wanted to SEPARATE the world but forgot the fact that Mundus literally wanted the opposite of it... Anyway, the manga statements was something I was led into believing talking about Pluto because others gaslighted me into it But when I looked at it again, it admittedly sounded suspicious to me as well. Soo I tried to research around over it and turns out things were even more ridiculous then I actually thought.

Soo in the beginning there was Darkness, Un-ending Darkness and in that Darkness came a ray of light which is at two points supported by DMC3 manga and DMC1 guidebook. And then suddenly it was split in two which then referred to as Human World and Demon World. To which, OP argued at it as:

Now, speaking of Sparda—ironically enough, the claim that "pluto" was the first one to 'separate the Human World from the Demon World' is actually referring to Sparda himself. What makea me that sure? It's simple: setting aside the poorly translated and low quality scan, the original text clearly shows it's retelling Sparda's story again;- In the past, the heavens easily flipped over, and the earth split greatly over and over. Heaven and earth were from birth/inherently unstable, and from their boundary, chaos was produced repeatedly. The panicking people, helpless, lost many lives every time heaven and earth fought.- At some point/For the umpteenth time, when heaven and earth flipped over again, a demon with black horns appeared; he drove a massive stake into the earth so that the earth would never split again. However, because the stake tried to escape on its own, he bound 'the undying one' to the stake, making it an eternal seal

As you can see, it starts by stating that Heaven (the Demon world) easily overwhelmed Earth (the Human world) and constantly split it apart, leaving Earth's inhabitants completely helpless whenever the realms clashed. However, at some point, a certain Demon—a black horned one—arrived and drove a massive stake into the Earth to prevent it from splitting ever again, turning it into an eternal seal. These latter parts clearly refer to Sparda, as he is the only Demon with black horns from older times we know about and that created an eternal seal, which is referring to his famous feat of separating the Demon and Human worlds with a dimensional veil. I'd also like to point out that this supposed 'Pluto' looks exactly the same as how the same manga depicted Sparda in the beginning; they have the exact same design.You might also notice a certain difference between the translations; the poor quality scan from the wiki says, 'he hammered a giant spike into the earth so that heaven and earth would never again be split apart,' while mine simply states, 'he drove a massive stake into the earth so that the earth would never split again.'The biggest difference is his includes the bolded parts, which, to say the least, is badly translated and interpreted. Furthermore, the latter translation makes more sense with 'never split again,' as the splitting here refers to how Heaven constantly overturned the Earth, as noted in the first scan.

Okay soo we are at the most crucial part of the entire proposition. Yeah, I admit that's actually Sparda at another glance BUT there is much more to be considered here. Firstly, you are correct on pointing out that the design which we led into believing that it was Pluto was ridiculously similar to Sparda as we can see here, which surprisingly is further supported by this scan coz when you look at it closely, you can see a woman and the only relevant woman in the series at that point and related to Sparda is his own wife Eva which seems to symbolize the relationship between Human and Demon kind in this context specifically.

Now time to address those manga statements:

In the past, the heavens easily flipped over, and the earth split greatly over and over. Heaven and earth were from birth/inherently unstable, and from their boundary, chaos was produced repeatedly. The panicking people, helpless, lost many lives every time heaven and earth fought.

What this is saying is it depicting the primordial era when Heaven and Earth "easily flipped greatly over and over" referring to their ability to interact with one another time and time again, And due to this, the chaos was spreading everywhere due to which the people of Human World were helpless and got massacred again and again. Now lets focus on the second statement in supporting to this notion:

At some point/For the umpteenth time, when heaven and earth flipped over again, a demon with black horns appeared; he drove a massive stake into the earth so that the earth would never split again. However, because the stake tried to escape on its own, he bound 'the undying one' to the stake, making it an eternal seal

Now this again mentioned flipping over again (fighting) but this time the context is a bit different to say the least... This time around it mentioned "a demon with black horns" appeared and drove a "massive stake" into the earth so it can never split (torn) again. However the same stack tried to escape on its own soo he bound to it the "undying once" with it soo it can never be escaped again, making it an "eternal seal" as a result.

Now this can have both interpretations as we previously argued. There are only two Demons which coincidentally talks about both Sparda and Pluto as they both have black horns. Now this part of the lore supports both of them as Pluto could have used his iconic spear which is known for its property of manipulating space & time to split the world apart or Sparda establishing Temen-Ni-Guru within Earth however since the background picture seems like Sparda, I take it as his lore depicted here. Anyway, since the manga focuses on Temen-Ni-Guru for the most part, It appears to depict the events related to it like this:

• "The stake" is referring to Temen Ni Guru itself.
• Preventing the Earth from "split" or "torn" is how it can be used as bridge for Demon Kind to invade the Human World as the world is no longer within Underworld at that point and as such, creating chaos which can taken as synonym for splitting/tearing apart.
• "Escape again" meaning how the reactivation of the tower resurfaces Temen Ni Guru for Demons to go in and out from Human World to Demon World and vice versa.
• Chaining the "undying" ones referring to those Demons that were trapped inside the Tower by Sparda for its defense and so.
• Making it an "eternal seal" soo normally people couldn't access it like how they used to before whatsoever.

Seems quite consistent to me.

What Actually Happened Then?​

Soo I've proven soo far that Pluto split the world & that manga statements does not actually talks about Pluto but Sparda regarding Temen-Ni-Guru so now what? Well... Things came abit interesting here to say the least. Ya'll remember this scan that talks about Pluto right? What if I told you that it isn't actually talking about neither Mundus or Sparda nor Pluto or Mundus but Pluto and Sparda? Yeah... Coz look at this way, we see the statement mentioning Black wings of Treachery and Mundus has no black wings in his statue form, heck, his actual form is just a knock-off version of Argosax. Soo aside from him, the only wings of treachery that fits the role is, you guessed it, only Sparda. Now I know you are thinking "What's the proof for this?". The proof is Peak Of Combat story itself that solidifies Pluto as a character and not just that, but also the fact that it was implied that it was Sparda who at the time fought Pluto and sealed him away (?). Now the sealing part I'm not really sure about as we didn't seen it talking about Pluto specifically but Medeas who is an assistant of Pluto but that's besides the point, the lore actually supports the notion that Sparda was there fighting Pluto which is the only thing that matters as a supporting evidence while either Mundus probably was there eating the fruit of Qliphoth and got enough amp to kill him or he did that while fighting alongside Sparda who wasn't awoken to justice yet. In any case, PoC interprets this event as either he was sealed by Sparda or was put out of commission for the time being (I take former as it makes more sense then latter imo).

This is how the story must have played out:​

• There was only Darkness and Human World came into it.
• The chaos was spreading all the world as a result of it (mainly Human World)
• Pluto decided to take care of this mess outside of his Kingdom hence why he separated the worlds as PoC seemingly implied he just wanted to turn Human World into another Demon World which either seems to be a part of his plan & thus why he split it in the first place or mayhaps he realized its potential later on when he was resurrected back.
• Mundus alongside Sparda tried to stood against him, while Sparda was fighting Pluto, Mundus probably ate the Qliphoth tree's fruit to get an amp and kill him there according to that specific Black Wings of treachery statement.
• Mundus realized the potential of Human World and tried to merge it back via destroying the veil that was installed by Pluto that separated them in the first place.
• Sparda woke to justice and got an amp soo ridiculous he soloed Mundus and Demon World by himself and sealed it away.
• He then tried to lock Temen-Ni-Guru which seems to be the key that Demons used in Pluto's era to travel into Human World when Pluto separated it.

Addressing The Counter-Arguments​

Counter argument: Why are we assuming the light didn't on its own done that?

Rebuttal: Why are we assuming that Human World randomly one day decided to yeet itself out of Demon World that always tried to eat away Human World whenever it got the opportunity? But anyway, it's a very easy rebuttal actually as there was someone that put a "thin veil" between worlds and the only one capable of such a feat was Pluto at that point in time which is directly supported by this same English localized scan on point stating Pluto separated heaven and earth supported by Kamiya who said that Pluto isn't an alias of Mundus and indirectly implied his existence & officially proven through PoC by Pluto outright existing within the verse to be an actual thing outside of any mere "mistranslation" that the OP of previous thread tried to ignore out of scrutiny which also refers to Pluto as a title and the scan that tries to connect Pluto's lore and separation of world event at the same time which is previously referenced in DMC3 manga.

Counter argument: Okay what about the "Chaos Boundary Stone"?

Rebuttal: "Chaos Boundary Stone" is referring to the destabilization that occurred due to light's intervention as split in half doesn't always mean in literal sense but also figurative sense too and given the provided evidence, you just have to accept the latter like come on, the name literally gives it away, "chaos" lol. Also a side note, it is mistranslated a bit as the sentence says it was found everywhere in contrast to stones nowhere to be found. Correct that part e.t.c

TL;DR​

The only reasonable answer here alludes to Pluto being the one that split the world. It can't be Mundus because his goal was to merge the world not separating it, that's an argument out of desperation and thus, by side effect, it can't be Sparda as well. The only way it can be argued against is through proving Light detached itself from Darkness which is downright pathetic as it was proven time and time again that Darkness nearly consumed the light on many occasions by itself soo the idea of a universe somehow becoming conscious and choosing to separate itself from the very boundary that created it is utterly nonsensical. Someone had to force it out and only answer there is Pluto, no one else fits the role by lore.

As for story, the only thing that is changed soo far is Pluto fighting Sparda not Mundus, that's it. If it was written anywhere on the profiles then kindly point it out soo we can fix it as a result, thank you.

 

[Ningenron]

The previous thread hasn’t even been fully applied or accepted yet, so there’s no 'Lore Revision' for your thread to achieve. This is just a pointless attempt to sidestep the mods' agreements and arguments from the earlier thread. I’ll make a rebuttal, but it’ll be in the ongoing previous thread.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

The previous thread hasn’t even been fully applied or accepted yet, so there’s no 'Lore Revision' for your thread to achieve. This is just a pointless attempt to sidestep the mods' agreements and arguments from the earlier thread. I’ll make a rebuttal, but it’ll be in the ongoing previous thread.

First & foremost, I already told them to apply it as there was no noticeable resistance from our side except me but it wasn't applied soo I took the matter on my hand. The thread was made by YOU awhile back and seems to be dead at this point and passed the grace period long ago. It was actually your responsibility to apply it not ours. If you want to apply it first then go on but kindly don't ignore this thread.

Secondly, this isn't just addressing your thread but also digging through the lore and revealing new scenarios as a process. Soo it is just as relevant as that one, if not, even more. Your thread just got involved as a result of it and needed to be addressed.

Thirdly, what's the problem in addressing here? This is currently the best place to address it out as it provides much more evidence and explanation infront of everyone & it shows.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

I totally agree, the previous thread had a lot of speculative issues and ignored obvious things like Pluto being in a separate game and confirming all the canon facts that those actions were done by Pluto, since they were indirectly confirmed in the mobile game. And I think it would be obvious that the English version of DMC should be as much of a priority as the Japanese one, if not more so.

 

[Campo1uc]

The previous discussion may have been a bit confusing, but there was still some bias towards the universe and a clear disregard for real things already shown in the universe.

I agree, good research, evidence provided and the priority of the English version over the Japanese is more than good. Good thread

 

[Ningenron]

Anyway, already addressed and concluded here.

First & foremost, I already told them to apply it as there was no resistance from our side but it wasn't applied soo I took the matter on my hand. The thread was made a while back and seems to be dead at this point.

Resistance from you doesn’t change the fact that others can still argue against it, and there wasn’t enough mod agreement to fully close it.

Secondly, this isn't just addressing your thread but also digging through the lore and revealing new scenerios as a process. Soo it is just as relevant.

That can be also done in the previous thread.

Thirdly, what's the problem in addressing here?

The fact the previous thread is still ongoing?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Anyway, already addressed and concluded here.

Resistance from you doesn’t change the fact that others can still argue against it, and there wasn’t enough mod agreement to fully close it.

That can be also done in the previous thread.

The fact the previous thread is still ongoing?

Is that supposed to be a counter? If it is then you disappointed me big time.

Also I've zero disagreements there. You can apply that thread but this thread will be carried on how it is. I'll counter that reply here.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

The previous discussion may have been a bit confusing, but there was still some bias towards the universe and a clear disregard for real things already shown in the universe.

I agree, good research, evidence provided and the priority of the English version over the Japanese is more than good. Good thread

Agreed. I noticed that Ningenron seems to have a slightly biased attitude towards DMC universe. I didn't want to say it outright, but since I'm not the only one who saw it... I just can't understand how you can close your eyes to obvious things and pretend that you don't notice them, justifying everything with transparent things.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

Anyway, already addressed and concluded here.

Resistance from you doesn’t change the fact that others can still argue against it, and there wasn’t enough mod agreement to fully close it.

That can be also done in the previous thread.

The fact the previous thread is still ongoing?

Well, this thread cancels the previous one

 

[Campo1uc]

Agreed. I noticed that Ningenron seems to have a slightly biased attitude towards DMC universe. I didn't want to say it outright, but since I'm not the only one who saw it... I just can't understand how you can close your eyes to obvious things and pretend that you don't notice them, justifying everything with transparent things.

It might be hard to deny when every reaction to any topic in this universe is skeptical and negative in one way or another.

A good lore investigation anyway

 

[Ningenron]

Here we go with the baseless accusations since my argument doesn't align with whatever you guys prefer. Typical.

 

[Crabwhale]

Well, this thread cancels the previous one

I've no stake in the proceedings here, however this is not how revision threads work, no.

In fact, thread/counter-thread situations are preferably to be avoided.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Time's up @Ningenron

The wiki most certainly did so first, especially considering that PoC Pluto is literally an entirely different character from the one you have in the wiki, both in terms of lore and characterization; since Pluto's in PoC is the Demon Lord that Matilda fought and sealed his power inside six different artifacts, which is why he refers to them as his own. on top of that, he's like, the only Demon Lord mentioned in PoC so far so it's doubtful it's referring to someone's else. Pretty much nothing alike.

PoC Pluto and OG DMC Pluto are the same lore wise. The Matilda is a PoC exclusive character that was brought for the PoC specific plot & it would only apply to it, as Pluto was dead during original continuity of DMC but here, he is only sealed away.

Also I wanna add on the point that Demon Lords could also refers to right hand mens of Demon Gods too as you can clearly see throughout the series and even PoC itself & PoC's story is not finished soo it's not a wise option to bring her here on this discussion as we don't know what Demon Lord she sealed away so try again.

And yes, his existence in the main series is entirely based on a single offhand translation. The fact that you can’t provide a single other statement from the main series mentioning him or proving his existence, and instead rely on baseless assumptions, says it all.

Not everything needs to be spoon-fed like you think it should be & nonetheless, I've proven that Pluto exists in this thread which you argued like how a casual would do while in contrast, I take the most logical conclusion and Occam's Razor demands that Pluto did it in contrast to you nitpicking the opportunities you can get for disapproving it which is frankly nothing but a session of yapping.

This is, quite literally, the dumbest, most useless, and most nothingburger argument I’ve ever seen. You don’t get to cherry-pick translations based on your whims just cuz they don’t fit your headcanon. That’s pure dishonesty, especially when the wiki itself uses the raw text to justify many things on the profiles.

Calling me dishonest would only backlash you, believe me. As it is clear you can't argue against it and only make such claims which alludes the site users to agree with you coz they already want the verse 6 feet under.

In any case though:

Are you even listening to yourself? Japanese localization? For a game that’s originally Japanese? Everyone knows Capcom is a Japanese company. Saying nobody knows that is just ugh. Like, are you even taking this seriously? But yeah, claiming the English localization should take precedence over the Japanese is pure nonsense when every single piece of side material—the guidebook, novels, art books, anime, and so on—is originally in Japanese. This argument might apply to the voice acting since there’s no Japanese VA, but everything else is in Japanese. On top of that, saying we should consider both is even worse because it just lets you cherry-pick what you like and ignore what you don’t—like what’s happening in this argument right now.

Being involved in the localization doesn’t mean anything or make it superior to the native language—it just is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less. Plus, you do realize these 'official sites' show different languages based on your location, right? The DMC5 site even straight up asks you to pick a language. Such baffling argument. Lastly, I’m not sure why a 'strategy book' matters much at all—it’s just, well, a strategy book. It doesn’t provide any new information, just repeats what’s already in the games. Being official doesn’t change that.

Tldr: all in all; you're basically arguing from incredulity.

I actually challenge you to make a case here that I'm arguing from cherry-picking standpoint, I'm not like you whatsoever. I take the most logical and sensible approach here. The text you are trying to argue as "mistranslation" was officially rebutted by the author of that game itself which you argued against by throwing in arguments made out of sucrinity like: "Oh you can definitely tell he is confused and thus, this point is inconclusive!!!" and other pathetic crap like this. I made valid cases you didn't, all you did is speak without using any logic around soo people would come in and agree with you as it's clear as day that this verse is surrounded by opposition all around it since time immemorial.

That stream no longer exists, and you need to provide the authority of this random person from this random stream over the entire franchise lore. Otherwise, irrelevant.

Ofc you will argue this. Too bad we already recorded the entire video just in case and it is much better then nothing, unlike your cases.

This is already debunked; I'm not going to repeat myself so I'll just quote it.


So yeah.

I know you wanna ignore the contexts hence why you replied there soo you can get a chance to let others ignore the main points but lemme check what you brought here:

His 'existence' comes from an old translation found in a particular library section that says, 'Pluto shall come on the promised date and separate heaven and earth. The one with black wings of treachery shall come and stand in Pluto's way.' But, alas, the original Japanese text doesn't mention Pluto at all. It merely says 冥王 (king of the Underworld), not 冥王星 (Pluto) which makes it clear that it's referring to Mundus and also recontextualizes the rest of the statement to clarify it's talking about Sparda

Kamiya's Twitter post also doesn't disprove Mundus being the one in the prophecy; it's all a huge ass communication issue. The "Pluto" scan doesn't say 冥王星 (What's used in the tweet); it says 冥王 (what's used in the game), which is an entirely different thing. To make an analogy, let's say you made a game and someone mistranslated a title as a name, and you were asked if X is that name. Obviously, you'd say no. You can even tell he's confused from his "...." In that post lol.

Now folks, this was brought as a case for this argument I presented:

Aside from this scan that literally on point supported by this specific WoG from Kamiya who worked on DMC1 mind you, there is Brady's guidebook (an official English guide) too that states and I quote: "Mundus slayed the former God of Evil" & you can clearly see the resemblance from the previous statement and this one.

We ignore the fact that the quote: "Mundus slayed the former God of Evil" that doesn't appear to shit on all these claims on its own but allow me to rub some salt here as well.

The first quote says in English text as Pluto however the Japanese text doesn't calls him outright but mention his title which also means Pluto as a side term.

This is where the second point comes into play which is someone asking Kamiya about that statement if it is referring to pluto (冥王星) as the twitter text has it labeled to which Kamiya on-point said a clear and concise "No" which is also steamrolled by Pluto's actual existence within the franchise and we treat PoC as an alternate timeline which barely has any form of contradicting to mainline series.

Umm, no. The veil refers to when the original world became into two—the Demon World and the Human World. That’s the veil, the separation of the worlds. That’s why he wants to unite them, to return the world to its origin. Saying 'Pluto' did that has no evidence and is just pure headcanon.

Such a stupid reply but that was to be expected. The veil is refers as a thin clothe (border) that separates Human and Demon World, the barrier that separates them in the first place, Mundus' goal was to destroy this veil and reunite both worlds.

Already addressed;


Ah, so we agree on this point. Good.

Lemme show what he quoted here:

It's not referring to literal separation, based on the fact that the same/similar kanji has already been used in the series, and it wasn’t describing things being actually separated; the manga scan of DMC 3 uses 裂ける, the potential form of 裂く, which means to tear,and guess what;
In the past, the heavens easily flipped over, and the earth split greatly over and over. Heaven and earth were from birth/inherently unstable, and from their boundary, chaos was produced repeatedly. The panicking people, helpless, lost many lives every time heaven and earth fought.
At some point/For the umpteenth time, when heaven and earth flipped over again, a demon with black horns appeared; he drove a massive stake into the earth so that the earth would never split again. However, because the stake tried to escape on its own, he bound 'the undying one' to the stake, making it an eternal seal
As you can see, the context of the statement is clear: Heaven was constantly overturning the Earth (the Human Realm), splitting it apart repeatedly, leaving its people hopeless and dying. At some point, however, a black-horned demon appeared and struck the Earth with a massive spike, ensuring it would never be split apart again—essentially preventing it from being overturned or attacked in such a way ever again. (Note: I originally translated 裂ける here as "split" instead of "tear" to show how it doesn't work grammatically or fit the sentence and context.)

Now, you might be wondering where I'm going with all this. It's the fact that 引き裂く is what's used in the prophecy scan, and guess what? It's another form of 裂く, which means to tear up into pieces and the like.

TL;DR: The statement is just talking about him messing things up, nothing more, nothing less.

What I said here:

Aside from all these evidences that should end this debate, I took my time to revise the entire lore again from scratch that needed me to look into the manga francisco that the OP used to prove it was actually Mundus who wanted to SEPARATE the world but forgot the fact that Mundus literally wanted the opposite of it... Anyway, the manga statements was something I was led into believing talking about Pluto because others gaslighted me into it But when I looked at it again, it admittedly sounded suspicious to me as well. Soo I tried to research around over it and turns out things were even more ridiculous then I actually thought.

Tell me in the eyes everybody here if it addresses something aside from the stuff I agreed over as you can clearly see above? The point he needed to counter was Mundus being referred in this "mistranslation" due to title mentioning of 冥王 that means "King of the Underworld" that also refers to Pluto but he didn't as he don't have any counter to it aside from bragging around his point that doesn't seems to relate with the actual case whatsoever.

You're overcomplicating it. All that's needed is to show that Pluto, which I’ve proven to be a title, is Mundus, and that he’s going to be betrayed by someone with black wings. Assuming it refers to two people simultaneously is a strange and far-fetched interpretation.

...What? You didn't proved anything with this reply. You just kept arguing for the sake of arguing that it is Mundus when it is clear as day that Mundus wanted to merge the world not outright separating it? What kind of weeds you are on my guy I need some of it.

This exact case happened in the previous revision thread and people agreed without understanding the entire logic whatsoever and took your bullshit on face value which is why I made this thread because it is utter nonsense.

I mean, no. The 'breaking the seal' there refers to Medusa being set free since she was the one sealed by Sparda (2:23:15). Pluto, on the other hand, was sealed by Miranda (which I mentioned at the very beginning of my post).

The timeline chart doesn't make any sense.

Probably and probably not? The story is still unfinished and it was never really explained that the Demon Lord Matilda sealed was actually Pluto or not.

In either case, the story involves Sparda as the main focus here who's seal is something not even Pluto can break through on its own as your own provided video seemingly supports this claim. Matilda could may as well sealed her away later down the line but the main focus is Sparda and that's what matters here, that Sparda was there fighting Pluto. So I'd say it is not wise to use it if I were you.

Why would he separate them if he wants to turn it into another Demon World? That would just make the job harder for himself. If you want a real, non-convoluted chart, it’d look something like this:

• The original world existed.
• A ray of light came and separated it into two: the world of light and the world of darkness.
• Mundus wanted to undo that separation and return the world to its original shape.
• A sense of justice awoke within Sparda, and he decided to betray his kin.
• Sparda sealed the realms from each other.
• The rest we know about.

Your fanfiction only works if you literally ignore this part of my post:

Why are we assuming that Human World randomly one day decided to yeet itself out of Demon World that always tried to eat away Human World whenever it got the opportunity? But anyway, it's a very easy rebuttal actually as there was someone that put a "thin veil" between worlds and the only one capable of such a feat was Pluto at that point in time which is directly supported by this same English localized scan on point stating Pluto separated heaven and earth supported by Kamiya who said that Pluto isn't an alias of Mundus and indirectly implied his existence & officially proven through PoC by Pluto outright existing within the verse to be an actual thing outside of any mere "mistranslation" that the OP of previous thread tried to ignore out of scrutiny which also refers to Pluto as a title and the scan that tries to connect Pluto's lore and separation of world event at the same time which is previously referenced in DMC3 manga.

Which appears to me that you can't argue about it soo you ignored anyway.

All of this has already been addressed here and in the previous thread; you're just repeating yourself, and I’m not going to go over it again.

Is this how the previous thread concluded as? Over this nonsense? You repeating the same phrase that was already taken care of long ago? I'm actually concerned about the future of the wiki here.

That was never part of my argument nor care about it. Furthermore, this item no longer exists in PoC 2.0 so it's whatever.

Well it is brought by many of your supporters soo I had to deal with this one as well. Afterall, this is general revision aside from debunking your claims as well.

TL;DR;​

• The wiki Pluto is entirely different from PoC pluto's
• The light is what caused the separation, I.e. the world was one, then light came and it became two, ergo now theres a veil between em.
• The Manga statements was referring to Sparda, which, both of us agrees to.
• Mundus statement wasn't talking about literal separation.
• The localization argument is dishonest.
• Sparda sealed Medusa, not Pluto.
• Kamiya's tweet is just communication issue.
• A bunch of the arguments are rehash of the same argument.

Lemme give you a TL;DR here myself:

• Nothing was brought to prove why PoC and OG DMC Pluto are different.
• Ignored all the evidences refuting this fanfic "light removing itself from DW" notion.
• Yes we agree because that's the only thing that made sense out of your previous thread.
• What's the proof behind it?
• It makes perfect sense as many verses here uses it to support their texts soo what's the problem in us using it as well? Afterall, I'm also reinforcing it with other scans as a backup support, that ain't any excuse to ignore it.
• Your own video says the family supported Sparda to fight against this "Demon Lord" you are trying to label as Pluto but thanks either way.
• Nitpicking.
• Literally nothing here is a rehash but actual genuine cases that needs to be considered.

 

[chosen]

Agree with everything

 

[Tago238]

Bruh DMC supporters going to be scaling fanfiction soon enough.

 

[Huesito88]

Bruh DMC supporters going to be scaling fanfiction soon enough.

They already have, Donte's profile exists and they're trying to give him 1-A =P

 

[SuperSonicTL]

They already have, Donte's profile exists and they're trying to give him 1-A =P

Damn you Marosuke, why did it without me?

 

[Tago238]

They already have, Donte's profile exists and they're trying to give him 1-A =P

Based tbh

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Agree with everything

 

[DaReaperMan]

Disagree with this thread for reasons in the previous one.

Ain't there a few month timer on shit like this?

 

[SYPHe5D]

I agree with this.

 

[Rutæhh]

agree, this seems reasonable.

 

[Unoriginal777]

Hello everyone,

Now while I'm new to VSBW, I am by no means a young chickadee, but am quite the opposite on all matters DMC and even I felt I learned something new (i.e. I assumed the one with black wings of treachery had been Mundus, but it actually being Sparda makes so much sense and adds interesting potential to the lore that I had never considered) from how well presented, consistent, detail oriented, and evidence laden this post was from start to finish. I also appreciate how the primacy of the English translation over the Japanese translation per DMC is finally being put on a full blast speaker for the ones in the back to hear. Afterall, the claim that a company simply being Japanese is some kind of a restriction on the company's ability to put priority in the English side of things (when proof is blatantly clear why that isn't the case) is a claim not only bearing the tell tale signs of non-sequitur, Hitchens razor, appeal to tradition, and other such fallacies, but in another more humorous and jestful light a wee bit racist from how it sounds (like how are you gonna tell the Japanese director of the series that he can't give the English translation of his work more priority just because he's Japanese?!!). But jokes aside well done SuperSonicTL. You have my sincerest commendation for your efforts and I look forward to what other contributions you'll be making on the DMC side of things.

 

[Crabwhale]

Disagree with this thread for reasons in the previous one.

Ain't there a few month timer on shit like this?

The 2-3 month timer applies to revisions that have already been proposed in the past. I don't believe we have one for thread-counterthread situations like this. That may be something worth looking into, especially given that the original thread was not concluded.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

The 2-3 month timer applies to revisions that have already been proposed in the past. I don't believe we have one for thread-counterthread situations like this. That may be something worth looking into, especially given that the original thread was not concluded.

Apologies for the interruption but the previous thread has been inactive for over a month after conclusion and the verse is quite outdated for a long time. I’ve been dealing with real-life issues and couldn’t stay on the site any longer, so I had to seize this opportunity. I hope you can understand and sorry for this inconvenience.

My work is essentially to only make the verse as valid & trust-worthy as possible without any chances of problems that it faced due to messes made by previous group of workers before me.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

Bump