Demon Slayer Speed Overhaul

[Passersby]

To add to the pile, The statement implies
the detonation is initiated instantaneously upon contact, so idk what this argument is even on about

 

[SunDaGamer]

Hantengu's lightning is currently accepted as being real so calcs based off of that should be fine. The Hashira being MHS isn't farfetched narratively since their movements are depicted as being imperceptible to even a Lower Moon demon in the early portions of the series. But Tanjiro when he was still a newbie Demon Slayer being MHS is a pretty egregious outlier, an issue I can see with the calc is that the manga panel also shows that the trajectories of the different balls are adjusted to the position Tanjiro is in for the cuts he makes which doesn't make sense if the balls were all aimed at his starting position and he statue'd them all in one go, Tanjiro also considers the speed of Kyogai's drumming attacks that travel at the speed of sound to be fast and isn't completely statuing them to the extent that they'd be moving near snail speed in comparison plus he was being aided by using his smell to predict the incoming attacks before they happened

 

[Armorchompy]

you did a wonderful job sidestepping the issue as you always do, but let me baby walk you trough it

(bolded in case you needed some form of visual aid to hold your attention)

Alright man, consider this an official warning, if your next post has any hint of this behavior we're going to RVR

...the "obvious" huh, should have known you'd say that, saying "hey this is obvious" isn't evidence, it's side stepping the necessity to provide any, aka, you're begging the question, and this is also an appeal to common sens

actually the "obvious" is that he statued all of them and moved several meters all the while they were motionless to cut them all, because the balls appeared motionless as he was moving several meters to slash all of them

I don't think you understood what I was saying. The manga contains no evidence that he "statued" them. There is no panel that shows them all being in the same place before he started moving, there is nobody remarking that he's statuing them, this is simply factual.

you said he was running around cutting them up, yeah?
in that case, how isn't he blitzing them, if they're all literally motionless as you can see from the manga panel, something that entails by defintion that he is hyperblitzing them

They're motionless in the manga panel because we as a civilization don't yet have the technology to make ink move around pages, so by default not much is ever going to move in any picture. Nothing in that panel implies they're not moving at all compared to Tanjiro.

well, anyways, as i said, you'd have to provide evidence UFO's animating sequence is faulty, which you never will, which doesn't matter, as it would fall short, because my interpretation is how UFO decided to animate the scene while the animating process was supervised by the author

That is just fishing for an excuse to reject it, the manga can’t draw 1000 still shots of the same scene to confirm this, and the anime doesn’t contradict anything in the manga. By this standard we would need to reject pretty much every anime calc on the website.

"involved in checking over the scenarios, character designs, settings, and overall they are intimately involved in the anime adaptation process" - They never say she supervised the animation itself, sounds more like she was involved in the earlier parts of the adaptation. This doesn't mean the feat is invalid, it's just not in the primary canon, and that casts a degree of doubt on it when it's such a massively higher feat than anything else they'd scale to.

...Black powder can be ignited by friction yes, but that thing requires more than just "slight friction", a knife could potentially generate enough friction to ignite it, somehow, but for friction to ignite black powder, a suffiicient enough heat output needs to be generated by the rubbing or impact to raise the temperature of the powder to its ignition point, which is around 300C, to cause ignition using a knife would require a significant force and speed to generate the necessary frictional heat, not "slight friction", simply grazing black powder with a knife isn't gonna anything, i have no idea what you're on about

So besides the fact that these people are attacking with tier 8 force and hypersonic speeds, and that is absolutely enough force to cause gunpowder to ignite... What then? Why else do you think it's exploding, magic? The fact that it's (according to you) more volatile than IRL gunpowder (whether because it's modified for that purpose or because the mangaka just didn't realize) doesn't change the basic process it has to follow to explode.

...the bombs were stated to literally explode and i repeat explode from the slightest friction produced by a swrod slash, not ignite but explode

... Yes, the first makes the second happen. It's like saying that a gunshot wound "makes someone die, not bleed out, but die".

oh so you have a basis with which you judge how much "higher" the explosive used in the calc is than the mystical bs gun powder we have no information on, please do tell, where is it?

We do not have a basis, friend, that is precisely why we don't just assume random numbers. For all I know it could be FTL or Supersonic, that doesn't mean you can go and assume random shit. This isn't something you can argue, this is a standard of the website.

We don’t know how fast a “special gunpowder” explodes and the standard assumption instruction on the “Explosion Speed Calculations” page is to assume TNT where an otherwise unknown explosive is used. And considering this powder is explicitly made for killing demons it definitely would be weird to assume it is as slow as black powder, one of the slowest explosive materials in existence.

But this isn't an unknown explosive, the closest analogue to "special gunpowder" is still gunpowder, not an unrelated explosive. This is pre-WW2 Japan, by the way, they did not have much in the way of explosive technology, I don't think they were able to pick and choose that well.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Il fulmine di Hantengu è attualmente accettato come reale, quindi i calcoli basati su quello dovrebbero andare bene. L'Hashira essendo MHS non è inverosimile dal momento che i loro movimenti lo sono raffigurato come impercettibile anche a un demone della Luna Bassa nelle prime parti della serie. Ma Tanjiro quando era ancora un principiante Demon Slayer essendo MHS è un outlier piuttosto eclatante, un problema che posso vedere con il calc è che il pannello manga mostra anche che le traiettorie delle diverse palle sono adattate alla posizione in cui Tanjiro è in cerca dei tagli che ha senso, il che non ha senso se le palle fossero tutte mirate alla sua posizione di partenza e le avrebbe fatte diventare tutte in una volta, Tanjiro considera anche la velocità di Kyogai 's drumming attacca quello viaggiare alla velocità del suono essere veloce e non li sta completamente dichiarando nella misura in cui si sarebbero spostati vicino alla velocità della lumaca in confronto, inoltre è stato aiutato usando il suo odore per prevedere gli attacchi in arrivo prima che

From my POV there is no reason to think that it is an Outlier or smth. And I don't see why the fact that Tanjiro was a "premature" swordsman changes anything. There are characters who in general in fiction their first feat is dodging a ray of light.

Then let's analyze the Outliers category in vsbw since this is the argument to debunk Tanjiro's calculation.

Let's analyze


1) The event has been explained. Tanjiro has an amplifier and his speed increases, the first criterion for not considering an outlier.

2) It is not contradicted, in fact, as I said in previous messages, it is very consistent, I will not rewrite from scratch, so I will simply copy the message.

"To make a mini recap, Tanjiro is able to move at least at Hypersonic speeds dodging kyogai attacks during those chapters without breathing and with breathing he amplifies a lot.

Moving forward there is another consistency, Tanjiro unlocks constant total concentration breathing, and also as it is stated, he amplifies himself every day continuing to use breathing, and arrives in the SSV arc, to dodge lightning. I do not see a crazy inconsistency, on the contrary, everything is very consistent. Even with the statements regarding Zenitsu."

3) As I said, there is no inconsistency, it is useless to consider it an Outlier when there is no contradiction.

4) There is consistency here too. Tanjiro in fact unlocks constant total breathing, which is practically the same one he used in the previous chapters, only he couldn't do it constantly, then he manages to dodge lightning. So everything is consistent. There are never anti feats for a Tanjiro when he amps. Every time it is related to a demon, and then he amps, he blitzes the demon with ease, demonstrating no contradictions to the amp. Considering him an Outlier is useless and also goes against the standards of vsbw, so I ask to be objective and consider the amp as valid.

Moving forward, yes the sense of smell helps Tanjiro, this does not change that he dodges attacks even if they scale relative or higher to the attacks. Yes I will use the anime because it adapts the manga and from the manga we only see the dodge already completed not how it happens, so to understand what happened in the meantime we have to check the anime to have consistency. Then Tanjiro constantly outspeed Kyogai attacks and let's remember he was in base form + with broken bones. And doesnt debunk the amp. Here's the fight if u want to check too, he react from offguard attacks, and outspeed other attacks constantly. Also, little thing, Kyogai can increase the speed of his attacks, as stated, the sound becomes faster.


Then no well the manga scene, as already said does not show anything. It is useless to take a panel like that since they are drawings. The anime shows how everything happens, and it is useless to appeal to the manga. Even if it is the original work for certain things the animation is better. The manga can be used for sentences etc, even scenes if they are different obviously, it is the main source. But here there are no different scenes, the anime adapts the manga, and the anime is followed by Gotouge.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I'm NOT saying that these characters are slower than the speed of sound at all [...]

You were arguing they were getting shot, and I just explained how these demons were, indeed, capable of blocking these bullets. I never said that you suggested they were slower than sound.

I will be for real here, this won't get anything above supersonic

Please read again

[...] Sekido did block these bullets, which pretty much shows they actually were capable of doing so.

The point was they are capable of blocking these bullets, that was all.

Because he want to finish Genya in that scene and he wanted to finish the job as fast as possible

How does this matters? Aizetsu wasn't in a hurry, the only one who was being serious is Sekido, the rest of them were simply toying around with Tanjiro, Genya and Nezuko. Getting shot and regenerating immediately after will only steal a demon less than a second. And there's no statement of Aizetsu wanting to kill Genya as fast as possible.

The speed of a bullet comes mainly from gunpowder, not the material of the bullet. Plus, its not implied that nichirin is some kind of extra light steel or anything, its just a weird steel that allow someone to kill a demon without the sun.

Uzui's blades can cause literal explosions, the blades turn red when your grip strength is powerful enough, they can burn and slow down the regeneration magical demons, they can cut through rock, steel and diamond, they change color depending on the user, and I might be forgetting some extra stuff.
Nichirin is a magical material with magical properties. If you are suggesting the bullets from Genya's supernatural shotgun behave on the same way as the bullets from regular weapons, you are the one who must bring up the evidence.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Va bene amico, considera questo un avvertimento ufficiale, se il tuo prossimo post ha qualche accenno a questo comportamento andremo a RVR

Non credo che tu abbia capito cosa stavo dicendo. Il manga non contiene prove del fatto che li abbia "statuati". Non esiste un pannello che mostri che sono tutti nello stesso posto prima che inizi a muoversi, non c'è nessuno che osservi che li sta statuendo, questo è semplicemente reale.


Sono immobili nel pannello dei manga perché noi come civiltà non abbiamo ancora la tecnologia per far muovere l'inchiostro attorno alle pagine, quindi per impostazione predefinita non si muoverà mai molto in nessuna immagine. Nulla in quel pannello implica che non si muovono affatto rispetto a Tanjiro.


"coinvolti nel controllo degli scenari, dei disegni dei personaggi, delle imprecazioni e del composto sono intimo convolti nel processo di adattamento degli anime"- Non dico mai che ha supervisionato l'animazione di stessa, suona più come se fosse una moneta nelle parti precedenti dell'adattamento. Questo non significa che l'impresa non sia valida, non è solo nel canone primario e che ci mette un certo dubbio che è un'impresa enorme alta di qualsiasi altra cosa a cui si può cavalcare.

Quindi oltre al fatto che questo perseverano attacca con forza di soggiorno 8 e velocità ipersoniche, e questa è una forza sufficiente per far rispettare la polvere da sparo ... E allora? Perché altrimenti pensi che stia esplodendo, magia? Il fatto che sia (secondo te) più volatile della polvere da sparo IRL (sia perché è modificato a tale scopo o perché il mangaka non se ne è reso conto) non cambia il processo di base che deve seguire per esempio.

... Sì, il primo fa accadere il secondo. È come una ferita da arma da fuoco "fa morire qualcuno, no Sanguinare, Ma Morire".

Non abbiamo una base, amico, è proprio per questo che non assume numeri soli casuali. Per quanto ne so, potrebbe essere FTL o Supersonic, ciò non significa che puoi andare ad assumere merda casual. Questo non è qualcosa che puoi discutere, questo è uno standard del sito web.

Ma questo non è un esplosivo spremuto, l'analogo più vicino alla "polvere da sparo speciale" è ancora polvere da sparo, non in particolare non correlato. Questo è il Giappone pre-WW2, un proposito, non avevano molto in termini di tecnologia esplosiva, non credo che fossero in grado di scegliere bene.

But there is no need. The anime is canon, also the manga can't do it because it's a drawing, you can't know how it went. Taking the anime is the most logical choice also it was followed by Gotouge, so most likely he also agreed to do that animated scene in that way because maybe it was also the goal in the manga. Then, the panel is taken without context. Susamaru, throws the balls, and Tanjiro is so fast that he cuts them all without them even moving. Everything fits together, and it is not a stage effect just because you say so. Clearly it is not, you can see with your eyes the balls being cut, you can see that while Tanjiro moves the balls do not move because he was too much faster, you can also see that P. Blitz Susamaru and there are no contradictions, saying that it is a stage effect has no basis.

Yeah well it doesn't change that gunpowder can be different. Saying that in Japan they had this and that doesn't change anything, because it doesn't change the fact that they can have a different special gunpowder, like demons and strange abilities exist.

 

[Epyriel]

But this isn't an unknown explosive, the closest analogue to "special gunpowder" is still gunpowder, not an unrelated explosive. This is pre-WW2 Japan, by the way, they did not have much in the way of explosive technology, I don't think they were able to pick and choose that well.

You realize there are a multitude of explosives used and called gunpowder right? But if you want to pick a specific analogue contrary to what the instruction page says, two of the most common gunpowders of the early 1900s are Single-Base Powder (made of nitrocellulose with a detonation velocity of 7300m/s) and Double-Base Powder (made of a combination of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin with a detonation velocity of 7700m/s). Both of these are faster than TNT and would only further upgrade the calc.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I understand it's just support for a different rating but the bomb calculation is questionable too, given it doesn't take into account the time the gunpowder takes to ignite, which is a noticeable addition to such a small timeframe [What I'm linking here is an extremely exaggerated situation, obviously it's only a fraction of a second in this case as it does with a bullet, but I think it demonstrates pretty well that gunpowder doesn't take zero time flat to catch fire]. Also the calc says "Since the type of explosive used by Tengen is unknown, we'll use the standard assumption of TNT" and that is just entirely wrong given they're literally posting a scan that says it's gunpowder. First source I found says 170 to 630 m/s, which is quite the drop.

Quoting the document you linked:

Black powder is a deflagrating explosive.

TNT does not deflagrates, it detonates. Deflagration is much less powerful than detonation, and a few grams of black powder will not cause an explosion as big as the one seen on the feat.

And then the ignition has to spread across all of it for it to all explode. It's not like the microsecond the edge of the bomb gets grazed all of the gunpowder is made telepathically aware that it's supposed to explode all at once.

Notice the calculation is just about this. We didn't assumed the bombs exploded in the exact same moment they got sliced up, but rather we considered that detonation was triggered within the explosive material at that moment. That is, the explosive material was being detonated, in other words, there was a shockwave traveling through the explosive itself, not through the air, as the explosion hadn't been released yet.

 

[Epyriel]

Tanjiro also considers the speed of Kyogai's drumming attacks that travel at the speed of sound to be fast and isn't completely statuing them to the extent that they'd be moving near snail speed in comparison plus he was being aided by using his smell to predict the incoming attacks before they happened

Tanjiro was not using a breathing technique there, didn’t have Total Concentration Breathing: Constant, was heavily injured before the fight even began, and was additionally heavily disoriented from the room spinning like mad, yet still was dodging these attacks. Considering he then blitzes Kyogai with a breathing technique (despite still being heavily injured and disoriented), I don’t think we can really cap his breathing technique speed as relative to sound in order to discount the Flowing Dance calc.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I agree with the OP by the way.

 

[Armorchompy]

You realize there are a multitude of explosives used and called gunpowder right? But if you want to pick a specific analogue contrary to what the instruction page says, two of the most common gunpowders of the early 1900s are Single-Base Powder (made of nitrocellulose with a detonation velocity of 7300m/s) and Double-Base Powder (made of a combination of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin with a detonation velocity of 7700m/s). Both of these are faster than TNT and would only further upgrade the calc.

Alright, that's actually fair so, I'll give you that one.

 

[Epyriel]

Alright, that's actually fair so, I'll give you that one.

Nice, does this mean you accept the Tengen scaling section?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

First of all, no one is arguing the emotion clones are Mach 2300. It is Mitsuri who is calced at Mach 2200, who visibly shocked Tanjiro with her speed right after he himself had just finished completely blitzing three of the emotion clones at the same time.

My mistake then
Still bad tho
Mach 200 is still way too much

The only time Genya hit an emotion clone with a bullet spray is when they blatantly wanted to be severed. So what if they also wanted to kill Genya? They took the opportunity to split when they had then chance, as Tanjiro wasn’t giving them what they wanted anymore.

He didn't. This clone in question wanted to finish the job as fast as possible and was asking for his brother to stop playing around, saying seconds later that would finish Genya. Just because they wanted to get shot at the begin doesn't mean that they always want it. And they pretty cleary stated that getting shot was foolish

Meanwhile they blocked further bullet sprays twice with ease, so claiming relativity between Genya’s gun and the emotion clones doesn’t make much sense

They can be faster than guns without problem, I even support that. I just disagree with the logic of them being over 100 times faster than these bullets

The idea that it can’t be the same powder because that powder is too powerful is completely illogical. An explosion made by three bombs (each about 4cm in radius = 268cm^3 in volume each) only got like a 3m radius explosion. The minimum radius for non-nuclear explosions to qualify for the low end of Small Building level is 6m. This explosion is only Wall level at best yet requires several hundred grams of powder (gunpowder has a density of roughly 1.8g/cm^3). You can easily take a tiny fraction of that to stick into a gun (especially one made out of the fictional material of scarlet iron which can survive even Hashira putting their full power behind it trying to cut demons with durabilities far beyond Wall level).

What is that yapping
These explosions can damage Daki who is currently 9-A, upscaling massively above 0.008 Tons of TNT
If you divide it by three and then by 500, you will get a 9-B value (By 1000 it will give you 9-C+ values, which is already enough to destroy a gun), aka 0.08 mm, smaller than the smallest bullet in the world (2mm)
And I still want to get a good reason for Genya to use special gunpownder outside the ideia of it being a cool headcanon reason to null the inconsistency

Why are you acting like these bullet dodging feats need to be MHS at a minimum? They are there to show your anti-feat in no way serves as a cap, not to prove MHS themselves.

I'm not acting that they need to peform a MHS feat while dodging the bullets, I'm saying that they are not massively faster than bullets since they even use sonic attacks multiple times

Daki’s obi only moved a couple dozen centimetres before it exploded

The thing is that the explosion didn't even moved a single cm. No light coming out or anything. You would probably even get a higher result than that feat of Uzui

The exact timing of the first sign of light in the anime can be chalked up to choices of animation detail,

So now the anime can't be used and its all just artistic?

yet the manga makes it clear Tengen cuts all three before the first can explode

And in the anime too, the difference is that its shown more clearly that the timeframe from the touch to the explosion itself is not instantaneous

In the anime theres also another scene where the bombs hit the ground and only blow up seconds after while midair, which is a adaptation of this scene. Take it as you like

Probably won't comment further

 

[Epyriel]

He didn't. This clone in question wanted to finish the job as fast as possible and was asking for his brother to stop playing around, saying seconds later that would finish Genya. Just because they wanted to get shot at the begin doesn't mean that they always want it. And they pretty cleary stated that getting shot was foolish

They can be faster than guns without problem, I even support that. I just disagree with the logic of them being over 100 times faster than these bullets

You are mixing up the emotion clones. Only Sekido was impatient about finishing off Genya, Aizetsu clearly didn’t shade his hasty priorities. The fact Sekido implies he shouldn’t have been hit if he didn’t want to be is then further reinforced by him easily blocking a wide bullet spray later.

What is that yapping
These explosions can damage Daki who is currently 9-A, upscaling massively above 0.008 Tons of TNT
If you divide it by three and then by 500, you will get a 9-B value (By 1000 it will give you 9-C+ values, which is already enough to destroy a gun), aka 0.08 mm, smaller than the smallest bullet in the world (2mm)

This is mixing the AP of a weapon designed to be especially effective against demons with its DC against the environment. The explosion is less than 3m which is barely Wall level while using several hundred grams of powder.

Also you can’t divide a diameter to get an equivalent reduction in volume, that is not how math works. The volume of a sphere is proportional to the cube of the radius. A 500 fold reduction in radius would mean a 125 000 000 fold reduction in volume (500 cubed). Not to mention you don’t need to fill the entire bullet with powder, not that such is a problem in this case.

Not to mention the fact the gun is made of scarlet iron which can handle far far greater stresses from the force applied by Hashira against the durability of demons.

And I still want to get a good reason for Genya to use special gunpownder outside the ideia of it being a cool headcanon reason to null the inconsistency

This has already been beaten to death, but to recap: Genya was explicitly hunting for Kizuki using a gun specially made to kill demons while a powder made by the same demon slayer corps has also been shown to be used for similar purpose. This is a pretty elementary connection.

I'm not acting that they need to peform a MHS feat while dodging the bullets, I'm saying that they are not massively faster than bullets since they even use sonic attacks multiple times

Then why do keep you saying “this would only be Supersonic” as if that somehow invalidates the counterargument in the slightest? And once again, those screams could just as well be continuous pressure waves (or a magical effect of unknown speed produced by a blood demon art from a literal demon), but such is irrelevant anyways because this has literally never hit anyone who wasn’t grappled or being propelled into it while mid air.

The thing is that the explosion didn't even moved a single cm. No light coming out or anything. You would probably even get a higher result than that feat of Uzui

Why is that at all relevant? The Uzui calc isn’t measuring some detailed progression of an explosion animation - because there is none, it is a still image manga panel. It is based on the fact we know he was able to make several sweeping cuts to two other bombs before the first could complete its internal detonation (because the external detonation had not yet occurred).

If we use the same method for Daki, her obi moved like 20cm before the external explosion is shown, compared to 6.7m for Tengen. Nothing is contradicted in the slightest here, and I think you may have misunderstood how the calc was done in the first place.

So now the anime can't be used and its all just artistic?

Just the irrelevant details of animating a single pixel to show the beginnings of a miniature internal detonation that no one would be able to see. Let us please use a bit of common sense.

And in the anime too, the difference is that its shown more clearly that the timeframe from the touch to the explosion itself is not instantaneous

Of course it isn’t instantaneous, the finite time between the initiation of the internal detonation to the resulting external explosion is exactly what the calc is measuring.

In the anime theres also another scene where the bombs hit the ground and only blow up seconds after while midair, which is a adaptation of this scene. Take it as you like

Yet there is no other reference as to what this cinematic time equates to in real time.

 

[SunDaGamer]

2) It is not contradicted, in fact, as I said in previous messages, it is very consistent, I will not rewrite from scratch, so I will simply copy the message.

"To make a mini recap, Tanjiro is able to move at least at Hypersonic speeds dodging kyogai attacks during those chapters without breathing and with breathing he amplifies a lot.

Moving forward there is another consistency, Tanjiro unlocks constant total concentration breathing, and also as it is stated, he amplifies himself every day continuing to use breathing, and arrives in the SSV arc, to dodge lightning. I do not see a crazy inconsistency, on the contrary, everything is very consistent. Even with the statements regarding Zenitsu."

What makes you say Tanjiro was moving at Hypersonic speed? Cause the only accepted calc related to Tanjiro dodging Kyogai that I'm aware of was this one which is Subsonic (I tried calcing this as well but I ended up with a lower result). I haven't seen any other calcs that put BoS Tanjiro anywhere near MHS other than the one in question. In order for Tanjiro to be Hypersonic based off of feats related to Kyogai, he'd have to be moving x5 the distance of Kyogai's claws cover in the same time as his movement which isn't the case.

Tanjiro learning Total Concentration Breathing Constant later on does not provide any consistency at all, we don't have Tanjiro performing MHS feats again until the Swordsmith Village Arc where his Total Concentration Breathing has improved dramatically compared to the beginning of the series, it'd be like trying to scale Goku using Kaioken during the Frieza Saga to himself when he uses the Kaioken in the Saiyan Saga on the basis that both of them are the same technique Goku is using to amp himself, that'd be ridiculous.

Moving forward, yes the sense of smell helps Tanjiro, this does not change that he dodges attacks even if they scale relative or higher to the attacks. Yes I will use the anime because it adapts the manga and from the manga we only see the dodge already completed not how it happens, so to understand what happened in the meantime we have to check the anime to have consistency. Then Tanjiro constantly outspeed Kyogai attacks and let's remember he was in base form + with broken bones. And doesnt debunk the amp. Here's the fight if u want to check too, he react from offguard attacks, and outspeed other attacks constantly. Also, little thing, Kyogai can increase the speed of his attacks, as stated, the sound becomes faster.

The anime is considered secondary canon at best which means the primary canon, the manga, will take precedent. Even with some leeway, those screenshots don't really help your case when we can see the claws covering more (or relative to) distance than Tanjiro in the same timeframe that both of them are moving that rather than Tanjiro moving x5 the distance of the claws in the same timeframe.

Tanjiro was not using a breathing technique there, didn’t have Total Concentration Breathing: Constant, was heavily injured before the fight even began, and was additionally heavily disoriented from the room spinning like mad, yet still was dodging these attacks. Considering he then blitzes Kyogai with a breathing technique (despite still being heavily injured and disoriented), I don’t think we can really cap his breathing technique speed as relative to sound in order to discount the Flowing Dance calc.

Except Tanjiro is using a breathing technique here and he isn't moving fast enough to make it look like Kyogai's hands are moving at snail pace in comparison. This is a Battle Shonen, characters can have 50 broken bones and 79 stab wounds and still be able to function properly by using some technique they've learned with some willpower mixed in which is exactly what Tanjiro realises in the chapter beforehand and proceeds to do to gain the upperhand against Kyogai and its why Giyu could continue to fight Akaza with several broken bones by compensating with Water Breathing's style. I'm not really convinced Tanjiro even blitzed Kyogai in the final page of their fight, Kyogai can perceive that Tanjiro is moving in for the kill and is about to drum again before Tanjiro sees the opening thread but Tanjiro's words make him hesitate and he ends up accepting death because Tanjiro saw something of value in him.

 

[Epyriel]

Except Tanjiro is using a breathing technique here and he isn't moving fast enough to make it look like Kyogai's hands are moving at snail pace in comparison.

1. Kyogai should be significantly faster as a former Kizuki than someone like Susamaru
2. Tanjiro remains heavily injured, suffering multiple broken bones such that it really hurts even just to walk
3. Tanjiro is heavily disoriented from the constantly spinning room
4. This is a different technique which should only be somewhat relative, but not necessarily equal in speed to Flowing Dance
5. Tanjiro is still fast enough to dodge all of his rapid fire attacks and decapitate him without giving him the time to even take a step backwards

This still seems to me to be perfectly consistent with what was previously shown.

This is a Battle Shonen, characters can have 50 broken bones and 79 stab wounds and still be able to function properly by using some technique they've learned with some willpower mixed in which is exactly what Tanjiro realises in the chapter beforehand and proceeds to do to gain the upperhand against Kyogai and its why Giyu could continue to fight Akaza with several broken bones by compensating with Water Breathing's style.

And this is VSBW, where we don’t get to just throw logic out the window on a whim if we want to make a consistent evaluation of fictional characters.

Tanjiro seems to believe his heavy injuries will significantly hinder him, and any kind of rational would certainly agree. There isn’t any reason to think he wouldn’t be significantly slower with injured legs and a body wracked with fractures and pain. “Compensating” for an injury with water breathing in no way implies they can fight at the same speed as when using the same technique when not injured at all.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Cosa ti fa dire che Tanjiro si stava muovento a velocità ipersonica? Perché l'unico calcolo acquistato relativo a Tanjiro che schiva Kyogai di cui sono un'era della coscienza questo che è Subsonic (ho provato a calcare Questo anche ma ho finito con un risultato inferiore). Non ho visto altri calcoli che mettono BoS Tanjiro vicino a MHS diverso da quello in questione. Affinché Tanjiro sia ipersonico a base di prodezze legate a Kyogai, dovrebbe spostare x5 la distanza della copertura degli artigli di Kyogai nello stesso momento del suo movimento che non è il caso.







Tanjiro che apprende la respirazione costante della concentrazione totale in seguito non fornisce alcuna coerenza, non abbiamo Tanjiro che esegue nuove le imprese MHS fino allo Swordsmith Village Arc, dove la sua respirazione della concentrazione totale è migrata nota respetto all'interno Sarebbe vieni a provare un regime Goku usando Kaioken durante la Frieza Saga a se stesso quando usa il Kaioken nella Saiyan Saga sulla base del grasso che entrambi sono la stella tecnica che Gok




L'anime è considerato Secondario canone nella migliore delle ipotesi, il che significa che il canone primario, il manga, avrà un precedente. Anche con un po 'di margina di manovra, quegli screenshot non aiutano davvero il tuo caso quando possiiamo gli artigli che coprono più (o relativi alla) distanza di Tanjiro nello stesso lasso di tempo in cui si entrasse in contatto con l'intuizione di Tanjiro





Tranne Tanjiro sta usando una tecnica di respirazione qui e non si sta muovendo abbastanza velocemente da lontano sembrare che le mani di Kyogai si muovano a passo di lumaca in confronto. Questa è una battaglia di Shonen, la persona che possiede 50 ossa rotte e 79 ferisce da taglio ed essere ancora in grado di devertimento correttamenti usando una tecnica che ha imparato con una forza di volontariato esattezze ciò che Tanjiro realizza in anticipo nel capitolo e continua una tariffa per ogni altro il sopravvento contro Kyogai ed è per questo che Giyu potrebbe continua un combattente Akaza con diversi osa rotte compensando lo stile di Water Breathing. Non sono davvero convinto che Tanjiro abbia persino blitzato Kyogai nella pagina finale della loro lotta, Kyogai può essere percepito come Tanjiro si sta trasferendo per uccidere e sta per suonare di nuovo prima che Tanjiro veda il thread di apertura ma Le parole di Tanjiro lo fanno esitare e finisce per accettare la morte perché Tanjiro ha visto qualcosa di valore in lui.

That is, what makes me say it is that the sound in wooden houses and in wood in general, moves with Hypersonic speeds, and the place where we are is a wooden house. "Speed of Sound" does not necessarily report the base value, it simply says speed of sound and the speed of sound changes based on many characteristics.


Instead there is consistency, the constant total concentration, it is the same amp that he uses with that calculation, he simply has it constant, so it makes sense that after improving a bit he can dodge a lightning bolt, or that he has other MSH calculations also in base while dodging lightning bolts. The fact that there are no other MSH calculations does not debunk anything, there is the consistency of why he is not an Outlier, and you can not say that he is because it seems like it. In fiction anything can happen and with an amp explained, even if the character increases the strength by 300 times, unless it is contradicted there is no reason to think that it is wrong


Well I'm saying something else. The anime may be secondary canon but I don't see what's wrong with it. The manga are drawings and you see the finished action, the anime shows you the movement it makes. For certain calculations many take the anime on purpose because from the manga you can't understand, I'm not saying anything bad or strange, it's perfectly logical.


Yes exactly he is using a breathing technique, and in fact blitzed Kyogai. I don't see what you're debunking? Kyogai simply scales in combat speed and perception to technique, good. And then no, the movement he makes is literally minimal while Tanjiro had to do continuous rotations and more distance, Kyogai would still be much slower than Tanjiro. No tbh he doesn't accept death he just couldn't defend himself. There's no such thing as accepting death. Also it wouldn't be a contradiction, just that Kyogai physically scales higher than his attacks and his perception as well.

Also no, an inexperienced Tanjiro who could not yet control his breathing perfectly, since he first showed it when Rengoku taught it to him, there is no reason to think that Tanjiro could do it. He was not pillar level at that time.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

What is that yapping
These explosions can damage Daki who is currently 9-A, upscaling massively above 0.008 Tons of TNT
If you divide it by three and then by 500, you will get a 9-B value (By 1000 it will give you 9-C+ values, which is already enough to destroy a gun), aka 0.08 mm, smaller than the smallest bullet in the world (2mm)

Nichirin is a material that's been explicitly shown to be extremely durable several times.

And I still want to get a good reason for Genya to use special gunpownder outside the ideia of it being a cool headcanon reason to null the inconsistency

Why treating Genya's shotgun as a regular weapon in the first place? That's the actual question that should get answered, as all the currently available evidence shows it was no normal gun. Again, if you claim the bullets had a speed comparable to that of common bullets, then please bring up the proper evidence.

And in the anime too, the difference is that its shown more clearly that the timeframe from the touch to the explosion itself is not instantaneous

In the anime theres also another scene where the bombs hit the ground and only blow up seconds after while midair, which is a adaptation of this scene. Take it as you like

Probably won't comment further

I must say this scene does not even exists in the manga. Look at the link you just shared, Tengen was swinging both arms because he was smashing the floor with his swords, which are known to cause explosions too. He didn't used any bombs here.

 

[karo_senpaii]

My mistake then
Still bad tho
Mach 200 is still way too much

He didn't. This clone in question wanted to finish the job as fast as possible and was asking for his brother to stop playing around, saying seconds later that would finish Genya. Just because they wanted to get shot at the begin doesn't mean that they always want it. And they pretty cleary stated that getting shot was foolish

They can be faster than guns without problem, I even support that. I just disagree with the logic of them being over 100 times faster than these bullets

This part of your arguments is puzzling. It seems you just have a personal issue with DS being massively hypersonic and the issues don't actually hinge on anything concrete but just disbelief.
If i summarize a huge part of the back and forth you have been having here this is it:
1. You say someone scaled to mach 200 i.e. the emotion clones should not be getting shot or struggling with bullet speed
Ignoring the Nichirin bullets argument the guy still told you that they did not struggle but in fact they wanted to get shot as it was an easy chance to separate and subsequently on other occasions, they easily blocked it.
2. Your response was but that is not mhs speed
The guy told you that the point was not to show mhs speed. Just to remove the contradiction of "struggling with speed of bullets while being mach 200" which he did
3. You response is I agree they are faster than sound but just not 200 times

They are 200 times faster coz they have a calc for it. The only defeater was them struggling with bullets seems like an antifeat but if that antifeat has been explained then yeah they can be that speed. Either you are just in disbelief or you have this weird notion that mhs characters must always dodge at mhs speed and if they dodge slower than that it is a defeater. That's wrong as they would just dodge as much as is needed most times and not waste energy

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Genya's gun has demonstrated the ability to completely remove a demon's head in one shot if aimed properly. Even with the inconsistencies regarding the Durability of demons that seems like something that would indicate it having significantly more power compared to normal guns which could also be considered to be an indication of higher speed as well.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

That is, what makes me say it is that the sound in wooden houses and in wood in general, moves with Hypersonic speeds, and the place where we are is a wooden house. "Speed of Sound" does not necessarily report the base value, it simply says speed of sound and the speed of sound changes based on many characteristics.

Doesn't that link just say that sound travels that fast using wood as a medium? Within the wooden house the medium would still be regular air if I'm not mistaken.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Doesn't that link just say that sound travels that fast using wood as a medium? Within the wooden house the medium would still be regular air if I'm not mistaken.

I'll look better and then I'll see. But in any case it doesn't really help the argument, because it wouldn't create an inconsistency anyway.

 

[Armorchompy]

Nice, does this mean you accept the Tengen scaling section?

The ignition time would still have to be taken into account, once that's done the calc is fine.

 

[SunDaGamer]

1. Kyogai should be significantly faster as a former Kizuki than someone like Susamaru
2. Tanjiro remains heavily injured, suffering multiple broken bones such that it really hurts even just to walk
3. Tanjiro is heavily disoriented from the constantly spinning room
4. This is a different technique which should only be somewhat relative, but not necessarily equal in speed to Flowing Dance
5. Tanjiro is still fast enough to dodge all of his rapid fire attacks and decapitate him without giving him the time to even take a step backwards

This still seems to me to be perfectly consistent with what was previously shown.

And Susamaru is what? Subsonic? that's still orders of magnitudes away from MHS and several times below even Hypersonic. Already addressed that having injuries doesn't really mean much in this case when one of the developments for Tanjiro in this fight is that he learns he can compensate for such injuries and null his pain with his Breathing Style. Even if I disregarded that, I'm not convinced that would nerf Tanjiro's stat amping by several hundreds of times, we have cases of real life humans being able to things like completing a marathon in under 3 hours with a broken leg or winning the semi-finals in Olympic wrestling with a broken neck or Floyd Mayweather never losing a single fight despite breaking his hands during multiple matchups. You can argue that these guys weren't in as much pain as Tanjiro but these guys don't have a magical breathing technique that can supposedly stat amp by several hundreds of times and also relieve their pain.

Can you also provide an explanation for why Flowing Dance specifically would be hundreds of times faster than every other form of Water Breathing? Cause Tanjiro never showcases MHS levels of speed anywhere else when he's using Water Breathing's stat amp or any Water Breathing forms this early in the story, you still haven't convinced me of any consistency whatsoever.

And this is VSBW, where we don’t get to just throw logic out the window on a whim if we want to make a consistent evaluation of fictional characters.

Except that nulling your pain and compensating for injuries with Breathing Styles is narratively something Tanjiro and every competent Demon Slayer does with their Breathing Styles, Rengoku suffered numerous injuries against Akaza and had his entire solar plexis impaled but still managed to almost decapitate Akaza for example. If getting injured could nerf Tanjiro's stats by several hundreds of times then he would've died in literally every fight he gets into from that point on in the series.

We also regularly index Supernatural Willpower on many verses, including Demon Slayer, where dudes can literally ignore lethal injuries and still press their opponents so I don't see why Tanjiro using Water Breathing's style of letting the user move like a flow of water which he affirms is ideal to compensate for his injuries, per Urokadaki's words when he was training, is such a massive leap in logic for you. You haven't even provided an actual counter to my argument using the scans of Tanjiro's own statements and the fact that he gained the upper hand on Kyogai once he started compensating using his Water Breathing.

That is, what makes me say it is that the sound in wooden houses and in wood in general, moves with Hypersonic speeds, and the place where we are is a wooden house. "Speed of Sound" does not necessarily report the base value, it simply says speed of sound and the speed of sound changes based on many characteristics.

No, that's the speed of vibrations through a solid material. Sound is a longitudinal wave which needs a medium to travel through because the waves are transmitted by the particles in the matter it travels through transferring energy through compressions and therefore its speed will vary depending on whether it's travelling through a solid, liquid or a gas. In simple terms, the particles in a solid are more densely packed so this compression happens much more quickly than in the air which is composed of gaseous particles. The sound of a drum will travels through the air before being detected by your ears so it's speed would be the speed of sound in the air which is 343 m/s. Kyogai's attacks are never stated in the manga to be the vibrations travelling in the wood around them and Tanjiro's statement of its speed is based on him hearing the drums, not feeling vibrations in the ground so there is no reason for Kyogai's attacks to suddenly be Hypersonic.

Instead there is consistency, the constant total concentration, it is the same amp that he uses with that calculation, he simply has it constant, so it makes sense that after improving a bit he can dodge a lightning bolt, or that he has other MSH calculations also in base while dodging lightning bolts. The fact that there are no other MSH calculations does not debunk anything, there is the consistency of why he is not an Outlier, and you can not say that he is because it seems like it. In fiction anything can happen and with an amp explained, even if the character increases the strength by 300 times, unless it is contradicted there is no reason to think that it is wrong

Except Tanjiro uses Total Concentration Breathing to compensate for his injuries during his fight with Kyogai and uses Water Breathing Ninth Form to dodge Kyogai's attacks but he still isn't moving fast enough to statue Kyogai's hands and it's not like Kyogai's hands are moving at MHS speed when his Transonic drumming attacks are able to travel several meters to Tanjiro within the same timeframe it'd take him to move his hands a few inches.

Where is this consistency you keep going on about? Consistency would mean Tanjiro performs other MHS feats at this point in the story and not "Tanjiro performs better feats when he improves later on in the series and trains to the point where he almost dies" like dude, Tanjiro during Swordsmith Village was literally on his way to the Afterlife from training so hard. This is about as asinine as scaling Final Form Muzan to Post-Demon Slayer Training Tanjiro because Tanjiro still uses Breathing techniques to amp himself in both the start and end points of the series.

Well I'm saying something else. The anime may be secondary canon but I don't see what's wrong with it. The manga are drawings and you see the finished action, the anime shows you the movement it makes. For certain calculations many take the anime on purpose because from the manga you can't understand, I'm not saying anything bad or strange, it's perfectly logical.

And the anime is showing that Tanjiro isn't moving anywhere near Hypersonic speed since he's moving relative distance to the slashes in the same timeframe that both of them are moving.

 

[Epyriel]

And Susamaru is what? Subsonic? that's still orders of magnitudes away from MHS and several times below even Hypersonic. Already addressed that having injuries doesn't really mean much in this case when one of the developments for Tanjiro in this fight is that he learns he can compensate for such injuries and null his pain with his Breathing Style.

Except Tanjiro uses Total Concentration Breathing to compensate for his injuries during his fight with Kyogai and uses Water Breathing Ninth Form to dodge Kyogai's attacks but he still isn't moving fast enough to statue Kyogai's hands and it's not like Kyogai's hands are moving at MHS speed when his Transonic drumming attacks are able to travel several meters to Tanjiro within the same timeframe it'd take him to move his hands a few inches.

Once again, “compensate” for his failing base speed with a breathing technique does not mean in the slightest that he would be just as fast with that same technique while uninjured and un-disoriented.

Even if I disregarded that, I'm not convinced that would nerf Tanjiro's stat amping by several hundreds of times, we have cases of real life humans being able to things like completing a marathon in under 3 hours with a broken leg

A single broken bone, yet came 78th. Yet accomplishing even that much was headline worthy over how unexpected it is.

or winning the semi-finals in Olympic wrestling with a broken neck or Floyd Mayweather never losing a single fight despite breaking his hands during multiple matchups. You can argue that these guys weren't in as much pain as Tanjiro but these guys don't have a magical breathing technique that can supposedly stat amp by several hundreds of times and also relieve their pain.

I wonder if guys like Floyd Mayweather thought his broken hands were inconsequential? What if he added multiple other broken bones, injured legs, fracture ribs, would he think he could move just as fast, and fight at full speed as if he was completely uninjured? What if we also threw him in a giant rotating room and spun him around a couple dozen times before the fight on top of his injuries, get him properly disoriented, I wonder if he would still be supposedly fighting as if nothing was amiss?

Can you also provide an explanation for why Flowing Dance specifically would be hundreds of times faster than every other form of Water Breathing? Cause Tanjiro never showcases MHS levels of speed anywhere else when he's using Water Breathing's stat amp or any Water Breathing forms this early in the story, you still haven't convinced me of any consistency whatsoever.

It ain’t hundreds of times faster, even in the same fight as Flowing Dance, Drop Ripple Thrust doesn’t statue the temari, but it does reduce their speed to a crawl. And in the Kyogai fight despite all the existing injuries his breathing technique still manages to run a circle around the room and close the distance so quickly before Kyogai can do much more than move his head a couple centimetres backwards. This also lines up with the performance of other UR demon slayers like Zenitsu who while in base speed got intercepted multiple times by even the Spider Demon Brother’s little minions, yet then proceeded to blitz him from well over 30m away with a breathing technique.

Except that nulling your pain and compensating for injuries with Breathing Styles is narratively something Tanjiro and every competent Demon Slayer does with their Breathing Styles, Rengoku suffered numerous injuries against Akaza and had his entire solar plexis impaled but still managed to almost decapitate Akaza for example. If getting injured could nerf Tanjiro's stats by several hundreds of times then he would've died in literally every fight he gets into from that point on in the series.

We also regularly index Supernatural Willpower on many verses, including Demon Slayer, where dudes can literally ignore lethal injuries and still press their opponents so I don't see why Tanjiro using Water Breathing's style of letting the user move like a flow of water which he affirms is ideal to compensate for his injuries, per Urokadaki's words when he was training, is such a massive leap in logic for you. You haven't even provided an actual counter to my argument using the scans of Tanjiro's own statements and the fact that he gained the upper hand on Kyogai once he started compensating using his Water Breathing.

Even if they were blasted with an anesthetic, it in no way implies their body can operate at full capacity.

Now matter how you cut it, even in the real world where you can help compensate for injuries with adrenaline, such would still be inferior to what you can do with that same adrenaline rush while uninjured.

And it doesn’t need to be either the breathing technique chosen is 300 times slower than another, or his injuries have nerfed him 300 times over. It is more a matter of he is already like 50 times faster than Kyogai while using Turbulent, while the given technique might be 2-3 times slower than Flowing Dance and his injuries and disorientation could also easily cut his speed in half while Kyogai could easily be twice as fast as Susamaru.

 

[KnyRaizn]

E Susamaru è cosa? Subsonic? sono ancora ordinari di magnitudini lontano da MHS e diverse volte al di sotto di Hypersonic. Già detto che avere infortuni non significa molto in questo caso quando uno degli sviluppi per Tanjiro in questa lotta è quelello scopre di poter compensate tali lesioni e annullare il suo dolore con il suo stile respiratorio. Anche se lo ignoranti, non sono convinto che la statistica del nerf Tanjiro si accumula di diverse centinaia di volte, abbiamo casi in cui gli umani della vita reale sono in grado di tariffa completa una maratona in meno di 3 ore con una gamba rota o vincere le semifinali nel wrestling olimpico con il collo rottoo Floyd Mayweather non ha mai perso un singolo combattente non ostante si sia marcito le mani durante più matchup. Si può sostenere che questi ragazzi non hanno sofferto tanto quanto Tanjiro, ma questi ragazzi non hanno una tecnica di respirazione magica che può presumere amplificare l'amplificatore di diverse centineia di volte e alleviare il loro amore.

I have yet to figure out how this would debunk the amplifier. This simply means that Kyogai physically scales down to that form of Tanjiro, I don't see the problem with that, it's not a feat against the feat but only a feat for Kyogai. Of course if we count that he does it, when he doesn't do it total, but it doesn't debunk anything.

Puoi anche fornire una spiegazione del perché Flowing Dance in particolare Sarebbe centraia di volte più veloce di altri tratti di Respirazione dell'Acqua? Perché Tanjiro non mette mai nella parte superiore dei vivi di velocità MHS da nessun'altra parte quando usa l'amplificatore stat di Water Breathing o quinsiasi forma di Water Breathing all'inizio della storia, non mi hai ancora convocato di alcuna coerenza.


Tranne il fatto che annulla il tuo colore e compensa le lesioni con gli stili respiratori è narrativo qualcosa che Tanjiro e altri competenti Demon Slayer fa con i suoi stili respiratori, Rengoku ha subito numeri di informazioni contro Akaza e ha ottenuto il suo intero plesso solo impanato, ma Se rimane Sarebbe morto letterale in ogni combattimento in cui si imbarcano da quel momento in poi nella serie.

Indicare anche la forza di volontariato soprannaturale su molti versetti, tra cui Demon Slayer, in cui i ragazzi possono essere letterati ignoranti le lesioni legali e continuare un libro i loro avversari, quindi non vedo il Tanjiro usi lo stile di Water Breathing grande per lontano mu è un salone Non hai nemico per un vero contrasto alla mia discussione usando le scansioni delle voci di Tanjiro e il fatto che l'abbia sia stata presa dal Kyogai una volta assolto a scri


No, questa è la velocità delle vibrazioni attraverso un materiale solido. Il suono è un'onda longitudinale che ha bisogno di un mezzo per attirare l'onde sono trasmesse dalle particelle nella materia che la strada attraversa il trasferimento di energia attraverso la compressione e la qualità della vita varia a seconda che la strada attira un gas solido. In termini semlici, le particelle in un solido sono più densamente imballato, quindi questa compressione avviene molto più rapidamente rispetto all'aria che è composta da particelle gassose. Il suono di un tamburo che attira l'aria prima di essere rilevato dalle orecchie, quindi la sua velocità Sarebbe la velocità del suono nell'aria che è di 343 m / s.Gli atti di Kyogai non sono mai stati di cui non sono presenti le vibrazioni che viaggiano nel bosco intorno a un loro e Tanjiro 'l'affermazione della sua velocità si basa sul fatto che il tamburo i tamburi, non sono presenti vibrazioni nel territorio di Ky, questi non sono

They don't have to move in the forest, not only is there wood there, but it's also here through the ceiling, walls and roof.

Tranne Tanjiro usa la respirazione della concentrazione totale per compensazione le sue ferite durante la sua lotta con Kyogai e usi Nona forma di respirazione dell'acqua schivare gli attacchi di Kyogai ma lui non si sta ancora muovendo abbastanza velocemente per imputare le mani di Kyogai e non è venuto se le mani di Kyogai si muovessero alla velocità MHS quando i suoi atti di batterie transonica sono in grado di percorrere diversi metri fino a Tanjiro nello stesso lasso di tempo che gli altri per cui le persone di quali centimetro.

Dov'è questa coerenza di cui continui? Coerenza significa che Tanjiro esegue altre imprese MHS a questo punto nella storia e non "Tanjiro esegue talent migliori quando migliora in seguito alla serie e si allen fino al punto in cui quasi mio" come amico, Tanjiro durante Swordsmith Village era letterale in viaggio verso l'Aldilà dall'allenamento così difficile. Questo è tanto diverso dal ridimensionamento del modulo finale Muzan all'addestramento post-demone su strato Tanjiro perché Tanjiro utilizza ancora tecniche di respirazione per amplificare i punti di vista dell'ambiente che della fine della serie.

Consistency is that he uses the same breath and continues to do some kind of feats, here it is very logical to assume that the calculation is right.

E l'anime sta dimostrando che Tanjiro non si sta muovendo da nessuna parte vicino alla velocità ipersonica poiché sta spostando la distanza relativa alle barre nello stesso lasso di tempo in cui si entra in scena.

I don't understand what this has to do with it

 

[Epyriel]

The ignition time would still have to be taken into account, once that's done the calc is fine.

Notice the calculation is just about this. We didn't assumed the bombs exploded in the exact same moment they got sliced up, but rather we considered that detonation was triggered within the explosive material at that moment. That is, the explosive material was being detonated, in other words, there was a shockwave traveling through the explosive itself, not through the air, as the explosion hadn't been released yet.

The ignition time is exactly what the calc is using to determine the speed. Can we put you down for agree for that section (which also scales off the lightning calc anyways)?

 

[Armorchompy]

No you cannot because again you are taking "it explodes immediately" too literally, it doesn't take literally zero time for the chemical reaction to happen once the ignition happens, Look at something like a revolver firing in slow motion, it takes about 30 frames at 147000 fps for there to be any signs of ignition (possibly that'd be seen earlier without the gun's barrel, but I can't really find a bullet firing on its own) and another 13 to see an actual blast after the hammer hits the bullet. Only considering the 30 frames, that adds 0.000204 seconds to the timeframe, which lowers the result to 31232.55 m/s.

And yes, yes "this is magic powder that goes unquantifiably faster than the normal sort", that doesn't change that there is a delay, and not accounting for it is worse than accounting for a slightly inaccurate one. This is also a lot less black powder than the bombs and it's probably compressed and produced with much more efficiency than early 1900s Japan could, which probably more than balances things out.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

No you cannot because again you are taking "it explodes immediately" too literally, it doesn't take literally zero time for the chemical reaction to happen once the ignition happens, Look at something like a revolver firing in slow motion, it takes about 30 frames at 147000 fps for there to be any signs of ignition (possibly that'd be seen earlier without the gun's barrel, but I can't really find a bullet firing on its own) and another 13 to see an actual blast after the hammer hits the bullet. Only considering the 30 frames, that adds 0.000204 seconds to the timeframe, which lowers the result to 31232.55 m/s.

And yes, yes "this is magic powder that goes unquantifiably faster than the normal sort", that doesn't change that there is a delay, and not accounting for it is worse than accounting for a slightly inaccurate one. This is also a lot less black powder than the bombs and it's probably compressed and produced with much more efficiency than early 1900s Japan could, which probably more than balances things out.

I guess you’re getting confused between detonation and ignition/explosion. What the video shows is the shock-wave that travels through the air and pressurized air itself, but the combustion of the material inside the casing of the bullet happened long before that (on the other hand, the powder used for guns does not detonates, it deflagrates).

Detonation is the process in which the explosive material makes combustion. This process is characterized by the Detonation Velocity, that corresponds to the speed at which the combustion shock-front travels through the explosive material itself while detonating. One can equivalently think of this as the velocity at which the chemical reaction propagates across the explosive. And this process takes place before the usual fiery explosion we often see.

What we did on Tengen’s calculation was to calculate the time it takes for the first bomb to release this fiery explosion. We know that before these bombs explode, a chemical reaction (detonation) must occur inside the material, that’s to say, all of the explosive material must undergo combustion before the actual explosion is released, therefore we divided the diameter of the largest explosive bead by the detonation velocity of TNT (which is the type of explosive the wiki suggests to use when it comes to calculating speeds regarding explosives), which yields the time it takes for the detonation shock-wave to go across the bead (i.e. the time it takes for the chemical reaction to happen inside the bomb), in other words, the time it takes for this bomb to explode.
We did not assume the first bomb exploded instantaneously in the moment it got cut, we calculated the time it takes for the chemical reaction known as Detonation to take place all inside this bomb, which is the event that happens before the actual explosion.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Bump

 

[HelloThere1089]

Could the mods give their votes for the rest of the calcs?

 

[Assassin]

Introduction​

As it stands, the speed ratings for Demon Slayer are a bit of a mess. About half the ratings reference removed calcs (Tanjiro Dodges Point Blank Demon Attack and Zenitsu Blitzes Lightning) and the other half are based on a heavily criticized calc (Muichiro Cuts Ten Thousand Fish).

In light of this, I wish to propose a batch of revisions to swap out them out with five other accepted calcs (Mitsuri Dodges Lightning, Tengen Cuts Bombs, Tanjiro Dodges Lightning, Tanjiro’s Flowing Dance, and Tanjiro Dodges Swamp Demon). I will also use the chance to brush up some of the justifications on the existing profiles, the full list of such proposed revisions can be found here.

As it stands, much of the verse stands at Massively Hypersonic derived from Muichiro cutting ten thousand fish in SSV, however this calc has been heavily contested thanks to how many assumptions you need to weigh based on how many cuts he is actually making which depends on assumptions about his reach, the angle of his sweeps, and how fast the fish are moving. To but it simply, it is a little messy.

However, in line with Hantengu’s lightning being accepted as real lightning, we now have a good number of replacements (and even some upgrades) to substitute in its place to maintain the verse’s status as a lightning timer (which does fit nicely with how incredibly frequently its characters are described as fast as lightning, which is now backed up by more substantive calculations).

Demon Slayer Speed Scaling Context​

First, it should be noted is that there is a significant gulf between the travel speed, base combat speed, and breathing technique combat speed of demon slayers. For example, Tanjiro initially struggles against the speed of the temaris when fighting Susamaru, yet then later in the same sequence utterly blitzes them as if they are completely still when using Water Breathing: Flowing Dance. Meanwhile in travel speed even the Hashira are compared merely to the wind and are relative to their crows, while Tengen is ranked higher than Gyomei despite being relative in combat speed only to UM6 whereas Gyomei could keep up with UM1.

Thus is should be recognized that:
Demon Slayers’ Breathing Technique Speed >> Demons Slayers’ Base Combat Speed >> Demon Slayers’ Travel Speed

So characters who would scale to a given demon slayer’s base combat speed (like Susamaru being relative to Base UR Tanjiro), would in no way necessitate scaling to their maximum speed while in the apex of their breathing technique (as in Susamaru getting utterly blitzed by UR Tanjiro with Flowing Dance). It should be noted that this difference is especially drastic during the Unwavering Resolve Arc where the main characters have not unlocked Total Concentration Breathing: Constant.

Proposed Changes:​

Scaling From Base UR Tanjiro (Mach 0.85):​

Currently all of the UR Demons are scaled from a removed clac. In its place, those that only scale to UR Tanjiro’s base speed and cannot keep up with his technique speed (and thus do not qualify to scale off of the flowing dance calc), must all be downgraded to the next best calc based off of his base speed.

Epyriel/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Hand Demon: Subsonic+ [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc] speed]
• Swamp Demon: Subsonic+ [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc]
• Susamaru: Subsonic+ [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc]
• Yahaba: Subsonic+ [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc]
• Spider Demon Mother: Subsonic+ [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc]
• Spider Demon Brother: Subsonic+ [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc]
• Spider Demon Sister: Subsonic+ [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc]
• Spider Demon Father: Subsonic+ [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc]
• Kyogai: Subsonic+ with Transonic Attack Speed [Note: Current rating is based on a removed calc]

(0:11) Agree: HelloThere1089, Xaropadob3ta, Ped2018, JnSteHar002, Machmatej, KnyRaizn, Passersby, Digital_Franz, Viott, CloverDragon03, FelpeXDopZ
(0:0) Disagree:
(0:0) Neutral:

Scaling From UR Tanjiro (Mach 320):​

Epyriel/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Inosuke (Post-Demon Slayer Training): Massively Hypersonic [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Tanjiro (Post-Demon Slayer Training): Massively Hypersonic [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Zenitsu (Post-Demon Slayer Training): Massively Hypersonic [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Rui: Massively Hypersonic [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Nezuko (Base): Massively Hypersonic [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Kyojuro (Gaiden): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Enmu: At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Daki: At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Inosuke (Post-Rehabilitation Training): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Nezuko (Demon Transformation): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Zenitsu (Post-Rehabilitation Training): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Kanao (Pre-Infinity Castle Arc): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Tanjiro (Post-Rehabilitation Training): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]

(0:10) Agree: HelloThere1089, Xaropadob3ta, Ped2018, JnSteHar002, Machmatej, KnyRaizn, Passersby, Digital_Franz, Viott, FelpeXDopZ
(1:4) Disagree: CloverDragon03, LIFE_OF_KING, Armorchompy, Tllmbrg, SunDaGamer
(0:0) Neutral:

Scaling From UR Tanjiro (Mach 320) and Base SSV Tanjiro (Mach 208):​

Epyriel/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Genya (Base): Massively Hypersonic [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Genya (Demon Transformation): Massively Hypersonic, [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Genya (After Consuming Zōhakuten): Massively Hypersonic [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Hantengu (Hantengu): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Hantengu (Emotion Clones): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher with Massively Hypersonic+ Attack Speed [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]
• Tanjiro (Post-Type Zero Training): At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher [Note: Current rating based on removed calc]

(0:12) Agree: HelloThere1089, Xaropadob3ta, Ped2018, JnSteHar002, Machmatej, KnyRaizn, Passersby, Digital_Franz, Viott, CloverDragon03, SunDaGamer, FelpeXDopZ
(0:0) Disagree:
(0:0) Neutral:

Scaling From Unmarked SSV Mitsuri (Mach 2201) and ED Tengen (Mach 1762):​

Epyriel/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Genya (After Consuming Kokushibo): Likely Massively Hypersonic+
• Inosuke (Post-Hashira Training): Likely Massively Hypersonic+
• Nezuko (Sun Immunity): Massively Hypersonic+
• Kaigaku: Massively Hypersonic+
• Zenitsu (Post-Hashira Training): Massively Hypersonic+
• Kanao (Infinity Castle Arc): Massively Hypersonic+
• Tengen: Massively Hypersonic+
• Gyutaro: Massively Hypersonic+
• Gyokko: Massively Hypersonic+
• Hantengu (Zōhakuten): Massively Hypersonic+
• Kyojuro: Massively Hypersonic+
• Mitsuri: Massively Hypersonic+
• Nakime: Massively Hypersonic+
• Muichiro: Massively Hypersonic+ [Note: Current justification references contested calc]
• Obanai: Massively Hypersonic+
• Giyu: Massively Hypersonic+ [Note: Current justification references contested calc]
• Akaza (Demon): At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher [Note: ‘likely higher’ added to compensate for significant speed gap from Tengen and Mitsuri]
• Tanjiro (Post-Hashira Training): At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher [Note: ‘likely higher’ added to compensate for significant speed gap from Tengen and Mitsuri]
• Sanemi: At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher [Note: Current justification references removed calc; ‘likely higher’ added to compensate for significant speed gap from Tengen and Mitsuri]
• Gyomei: At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher [Note: ‘likely higher’ added to compensate for significant speed gap from Tengen and Mitsuri]
• Doma: At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher [Note: ‘likely higher’ added to compensate for significant speed gap from Tengen and Mitsuri]
• Shinobu: At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher [Note: Current justification references removed calc; ‘likely higher’ added to compensate for significant speed gap from Tengen and Mitsuri]
• Tanjiro (Post-Sun Breathing Mastery): At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher
• Tanjiro (Demon Form): At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely higher [This is based on the existing page which assumes DKT is superior to his human form which I don’t necessarily agree with, but I will leave that contention for a different CRT in order to stick to adjusting the current speed ratings]
• Kokushibo: At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely far higher
• Muzan: At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely far higher [Note: ‘likely far higher’ added to compensate for being faster than Kokushibo]
• Yoriichi: At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely far higher [Note: Current justification references removed calc]

(0:12) Agree: HelloThere1089, Xaropadob3ta, Ped2018, JnSteHar002, Machmatej, KnyRaizn, Passersby, Digital_Franz, Viott, CloverDragon03, SunDaGamer, FelpeXDopZ
(0:0) Disagree:
(0:0) Neutral:

Note: Except where designated, these ratings are based on existing accepted scaling chains in order to narrow the scope of this thread. Please save discussions of changing the relative scaling between characters contrary to what is currently accepted for a different thread.

I fully agree with all upgrades except for Tanjiro's early technique being MHS. There's way too many MHS-MHS+ feats with proper calcs (not to mention statements) to not accept the verse as MHS bare minimum. But it narratively doesn't make sense that any of Tanjiro's techniques would be even 1/10th as fast as any hashira's slowest technique

 

[Assassin]

The Flowing Dance calc method was already used long time ago and it wasn't accepted since Tanjiro isn't massively faster than these demons and its seen just as a perspective effect of the anime

And how they being MHS is consistent when even Upper Moons can get shot and use sound attacks?

It should be noted that all sound attacks shown in Demon Slayer do not move at the standard rate of sound. It's stated by Tanjiro that powerful demons have aura which physically effects the environment, in particular, both air density and pressure. Denser air = faster soundwaves. With the likes of Zohakuten, it would be immensely dense, considering a fully recovered Tanjiro stated his heart hurts from Zohakuten simply looking at him, and that he could hardly breathe.
It should also be noted, that not once has a character been hit by a soundwave when they were capable of dodging. Mitsuri was hit because she was in mid-air, as well as traveling towards him at full speed. Tanjiro was only hit by the other clones sound attack when he was holding onto him.

 

[Assassin]

So he just magically gets this amp when using Flowing Dance and nothing else. Clearly it's not Breathing Techniques as a whole because he's not statuing them with other Breathing Techniques, so it has to be just Flowing Dance.

...But that contradicts the notion that this is a thing for all Breathing Techniques, doesn't it?

It's not the first time singular techniques get massive amps. Zenitsu's Godspeed technique was faster than his other attacks, to the point it blitzed a full power Daki who stated she adapted to his technique speed. Or Giyuu's Dead Calm being so fast you can't even perceive him moving while his other techniques aren't.

 

[Epyriel]

In case the Flowing Dance calc gets rejected as an outlier, I have recalculated the existing flawed Daki calc of out-speeding Tengen’s explosions (still awaiting evaluation), which maintains MHS for the Entertainment District Arc crew in its place:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Epyriel/Demon_Slayer_-_Daki_Outspeeds_Explosion_Recalc

Consequent changes to speed scaling revisions would result in this:

Epyriel/Sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Nehz_XZX]

@DemonGodMitchAubin @DarkDragonMedeus

There is a bit of a lack of activity here, so it would be appreciated if you could take a look. There are disagreements about the Flowing Dance scaling but there seems to generally be an agreement about the other parts of the CRT.

 

[Laitnetop]

I'm neutral regarding UR Tanjiro's mach 320 feat, tho I agree to everything else. Another MHS feat for a character comparable to UR Tanjiro would help

 

[Digital_Franz]

Bump this one.

It has sunk into oblivion.

 

[NikHelton]

He should have the reaction time, then, to view all her attacks as if they're this stationary, no? Or do Breathing Techniques magically amp reaction times too?

The more this goes on, the more things start to be created out of thin air to try and create some kind of consistency here - when the simpler solution is that the MHS calc is an outlier and/or has a flawed basis

Another counterbalance to these calculations is Gyomei, one of the fastest characters in the verse, who, being blind, relies in battle on the sounds of the chain of his weapon.

Well, about the fact that next to the feat of lightning in the same arch, the characters cannot dodge the sound wave and the concussion, I will not say anything at all

 

[Epyriel]

Another counterbalance to these calculations is Gyomei, one of the fastest characters in the verse, who, being blind, relies in battle on the sounds of the chain of his weapon.

The discontinuity of characters talking and hearing one another mid-battle despite going faster than sound is in no way unique to demon slayer. By this standard 95% of all verses currently rated above the speed of sound would get nerfed a million times over despite displaying innumerable feats far faster than sound. Is Goku now supposed to be subsonic?

As a bonus, there is at least even a plausible work around for Demon Slayer, as demon auras make the air heavier (to the point even Zohakuten’s could make Tanjiro completely freeze). Such would be far far stronger for someone like Kokushibo who could do the same even to Muichiro. Sound travels faster in denser mediums, so sound travelling through demon auras would not travel at the same speed as sound through air at standard atmospheric pressure.

Well, about the fact that next to the feat of lightning in the same arch, the characters cannot dodge the sound wave and the concussion, I will not say anything at all

This has already been addressed above. Not a single character gets hit with a sound wave when they are free to dodge. Tanjiro only gets hit when he is actively grappled to prevent his escape, while Mitsuri only gets hit when she is mid-air, has nothing to kick off of, and is being propelled into the AOE by her own momentum (but still fully reacts to the attack and braces for it to supplement the fact there is no way for her to dodge).

Once again, a crippled and disoriented base Season 1 Tanjiro could dodge explicitly stated sound speed attacks even without a breathing technique in one of his first ever battles, and he is innumerable blitz gaps below Hashira level characters. This narrative of a subsonic cap to demon slayer really doesn’t work no matter which way you cut it.