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[Marvel Comics] Upgrade for Marvel Stomper

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Ok, but just to let clear electricity isn't her weakness, it just makes her power stop working properly.
Yes, but I was meaning to say that it counters the idea of her having a natural built-in resistance to it.

To make clear which is something I said to the other user, the size of her body doesn't necessarily fit the size of her fists, legs, feet ect as you can see in this scan here she increased the size of her feet while keeping her body normal size.
It is also why assuming her strength shifts so much with size doesn't really fit to me. I'm not against having two tiers listed for her, I think we should not assume she varies from tier 8 to tier 5 because of size, that is what I mean.

Look, Ms. Marvel rogue gallery isn't really a thing, her most constant "threat" would be the inventor which she had to defeat like 3 times maybe 4, but he isn't scalabel to her, he mostly just uses technology to attack her and when she actually reached him she basically just picks him up and takes him to the police.
Uhm, maybe instead of rogue gallery I should have said people with whom she normally trades fists with.

Also pointing out something that I had put on the op, she normally holds back, she doesn't hav ethe same amount of statements as Thor but she literally left the Avengers because they wouldn't help fix the destruction they caused during battles.
That is a good scan, you should somehow include it in the profile.

Hardly, Spider-man makes fun of all the characters he fights it's not really downplaying her just making fun of her that's why he even says "and none of her class".
He doesn't really do damage, he tries to stall her using his webbing which weirdly has feats of restraining tier 5s or pretty much anyone. Also Ms. MArvel doesn't freeze out of fear, she is fangirling over Peter it shows that if you read the comic and Spider-man doesn't really know how strong Kamala is since this was their first encounter thus the fan girling. Also Peter literally admits he his way over his head. The only damage he does was when she throws him at her which shouldn't really count since the whole point of this technique is use the other's strenght to boost the damage.
Yeah, I forgot she doesn't really freeze, my bad. But from the comic's perspective it is sort of clear that neither of the two is in Minn-Erva's class and they need to cooperate to slow her down, and Peter does all the work, even without directly hurting her in a proper sense. I don't know, if the intention of the author was to portray Kamala as strong as Minn-Erva, while assuming Peter is leagues below her, I don't really see it. She helped Peter doing a fastball special, but even then it's weird to assume there's such a difference between them, in context.

As I said before Spider people's web are pretty inconsistent, somehow it works on pretty much anyone. Also it's Kamala who is stopping his arms and body Miles and Gwen are going for his feet, and they are using webs to stuck him to the ground not actually stopping him with their own hands. Looking at Hulk it seems he is making an effort and trying to move his arms.
Spider people's inconsistence is the reason why we have to be careful with the scaling, both here and the battle above, because it is a little pretentious to discard the Spider people in both instances as inconsistencies and outliers, and assume Kamala to be instead perfectly coherent, while the two are in the same situation.

Anyway, I'm not actively against having a possibly 5-B from scaling to Super Skrull, but I'm definitely opposed to removing tier 8 altogether, since the two support feats aren't sufficiently solid to me.
 
Yes, but I was meaning to say that it counters the idea of her having a natural built-in resistance to it.
Certain resistances are very weird because having resistanc e to 100 Megavolts of energy doesnt mean becomign immune to it, so how would that work? If Ms Marvel was resistant to electricity up to X Megavolts and its it with X+10 Megavolts she would obviously be affected. The whole thing about resistant is about being higher than a human can withstand so it never made sense to me.
It is also why assuming her strength shifts so much with size doesn't really fit to me. I'm not against having two tiers listed for her, I think we should not assume she varies from tier 8 to tier 5 because of size, that is what I mean.
I mean the size of the part of the body she hits others with, and not specifically the size of her body, a 20 meters sized fist would be stronger than a normal sized fist even if her body has the same size.
Uhm, maybe instead of rogue gallery I should have said people with whom she normally trades fists with.
Most of her stories are about Kamala personally and not so much about villains or threats, most of the times she does a lot of stopping normal humans who commit crimes in Jersey City which obviously is not something we can scale her to, and the little times we see anything close to a villain it's a "1 time villain" that we don't really have anyway to scale.
That is a good scan, you should somehow include it in the profile.
You mean add a note saying she holds back?
Yeah, I forgot she doesn't really freeze, my bad. But from the comic's perspective it is sort of clear that neither of the two is in Minn-Erva's class and they need to cooperate to slow her down, and Peter does all the work, even without directly hurting her in a proper sense. I don't know, if the intention of the author was to portray Kamala as strong as Minn-Erva, while assuming Peter is leagues below her, I don't really see it. She helped Peter doing a fastball special, but even then it's weird to assume there's such a difference between them, in context.
BTW that's not a fastball special it's a slingshot manuever, irrelevant. The comic clearly shows that Minn-Erva is stronger and more powerful, but I think it at least makes it out that Kamala has some power that can dowscale from her otherwise she would have been defeated almost instantly, and Kamala and spidey's goal is about to protect the cacoon rather than defeat Minn-Erva that is left very clear. She is shown to be capable of withstanding an attack from her and to fight her while spiderman is handling the cacoon, and again showing Kamala holding back Minn-Erva from actually killing spidey, the only thing he can do is blind her with the cacoon, little after Minn-Erva uses eye beams that instanly throw Spiderman out of combat with it's aftershock, while Kamala is showing withstanding the beams directly
Spider people's inconsistence is the reason why we have to be careful with the scaling, both here and the battle above, because it is a little pretentious to discard the Spider people in both instances as inconsistencies and outliers, and assume Kamala to be instead perfectly coherent, while the two are in the same situation.
The comic clearly indicates she is stronger than she is, the comic acknowledges that Minn-erva is relative to Ms. Marvel which is much strongert than Spidey, I think the comic clearly wants to show Spider is weaker while Kamala is still weaker but somehow relative.
Anyway, I'm not actively against having a possibly 5-B from scaling to Super Skrull, but I'm definitely opposed to removing tier 8 altogether, since the two support feats aren't sufficiently solid to me.
I never intended to have tier 8 removed but I don't like the ideia of her just upscaling from tier 8 when they aren't even a threat to her.
Well, it is a spirit-copy. We likely do not know how powerful it is compared to the original. 🙏
It's made with the soul stone so should at least be comparable with their weakest version, also he made a thanos figure which can take attacks from Thor and Captain Marvel at the same time.
 
Yes, I am not denyind that they are powerful. I am just saying that we do not know how powerful they are intended to be within this story. 🙏
This is a tie in to infinity watch storyline where this character was created to, he doesn't even have enough stories to be "inconsistent" and being a tie in to this event means the writer is well aware of what's happening in this event which would include the comic I mentioned earlier which by the way was his first appearance.
 
Yes, and scaling from a character with very few appearances that establish his power level makes this even more vague and undefined, so I stand by my rejection of scaling from that particular feat. My apologies. 🙏
 
If we skip the scaling from Infinity Gem constructs, and anything else that our staff members have rejected in this thread, what revisions do we end up with here? 🙏
 
If we skip the scaling from Infinity Gem constructs, and anything else that our staff members have rejected in this thread, what revisions do we end up with here? 🙏
I would like to have a response from Lordtracer regarding LS class G.
And SamanPatou suggested "At least 8-C, possibly 5-B" as an option.
I added martial arts yesterday I don't know if anyone noticed.
That's what's left to be evaluated
 
Certain resistances are very weird because having resistanc e to 100 Megavolts of energy doesnt mean becomign immune to it, so how would that work? If Ms Marvel was resistant to electricity up to X Megavolts and its it with X+10 Megavolts she would obviously be affected. The whole thing about resistant is about being higher than a human can withstand so it never made sense to me.
Resistances have limits, of course, but it's pretty common to have superhuman characters surviving attacks without actually being killed by them. In theory, every explosion packs heat, fire, sound, light etc.. but we don't give resistances to all of those to every character that survives point-blank or close range explosions with just superficial burns, unhurt eardrums, unhurt eye balls etc.., which should normally be damaged.
Same goes for all those characters who survive lightnings but also other elements, which should normally cause enormous damages to real humans, but they still take "generic damage" without dying or suffering realistic consequences.
I would say a resistance should have the narrative imply a character is actively resisting, ignoring or enduring the offense, and nost just survive, yet hurt.

I mean the size of the part of the body she hits others with, and not specifically the size of her body, a 20 meters sized fist would be stronger than a normal sized fist even if her body has the same size.
Sure, and that's natural, but her most impressive feats (against Super Skrull) is done while human-sized, so I wouldn't go that far as saying she varies in tier with sizeshifting. Theoretically all size and shapeshifters utilize their powers to increase their strength as well (unless specified their strength remains unaltered, ex: Piccolo from Dragon Ball), but it is taken into account but not to such degrees as to make them change tier altogether.

Most of her stories are about Kamala personally and not so much about villains or threats, most of the times she does a lot of stopping normal humans who commit crimes in Jersey City which obviously is not something we can scale her to, and the little times we see anything close to a villain it's a "1 time villain" that we don't really have anyway to scale.
Then I'd say At least High 8-C, possibly 5-B works, if hurting such a strong character doesn't go in contradiction with her general depictions.

You mean add a note saying she holds back?
A note or even just a mention in the AP or SPC sections, I think it's useful.

BTW that's not a fastball special it's a slingshot manuever, irrelevant.
Yeah, I couldn't quite remember the correct name and I hadn't the possibility to check the comic again in that moment..

The comic clearly shows that Minn-Erva is stronger and more powerful, but I think it at least makes it out that Kamala has some power that can dowscale from her otherwise she would have been defeated almost instantly, and Kamala and spidey's goal is about to protect the cacoon rather than defeat Minn-Erva that is left very clear. She is shown to be capable of withstanding an attack from her and to fight her while spiderman is handling the cacoon, and again showing Kamala holding back Minn-Erva from actually killing spidey, the only thing he can do is blind her with the cacoon, little after Minn-Erva uses eye beams that instanly throw Spiderman out of combat with it's aftershock, while Kamala is showing withstanding the beams directly
The scene to me still seems to portray them in roughly the same way, taking damage from her without anyon standing out particularly more than in the other in durability, but I guess it can sorta work for support, even though I don't really like it, since we're kinda manipulatin the context.

It's made with the soul stone so should at least be comparable with their weakest version, also he made a thanos figure which can take attacks from Thor and Captain Marvel at the same time.
Maybe that can work as minor support as well.
 
I added martial arts yesterday I don't know if anyone noticed.
That's fine.
Also, I'd recommend to link the latest revision history of the sandbox in the thread's op, rather than the sandbox itself, as the link will inevitably lead to a different page once this revision is done and you use the same sandbox for other projects.
Also, hoping to not be asking too much, it would be nice if you could write something in here intelligence section, leaving a blank "average" feels a bit shallow.
 
Resistances have limits, of course, but it's pretty common to have superhuman characters surviving attacks without actually being killed by them. In theory, every explosion packs heat, fire, sound, light etc.. but we don't give resistances to all of those to every character that survives point-blank or close range explosions with just superficial burns, unhurt eardrums, unhurt eye balls etc.., which should normally be damaged.
Same goes for all those characters who survive lightnings but also other elements, which should normally cause enormous damages to real humans, but they still take "generic damage" without dying or suffering realistic consequences.
I would say a resistance should have the narrative imply a character is actively resisting, ignoring or enduring the offense, and nost just survive, yet hurt.
Fair enough. But there is something confusing me because I saw a thread about One punch man that wanted to add a bunch of powers because resisting inside a black hole would grant them those, I think it was quantum manipulation or whatever, so I have a lot of questions regarding applying physics to resist some attacks

Then I'd say At least High 8-C, possibly 5-B works, if hurting such a strong character doesn't go in contradiction with her general depictions.

A note or even just a mention in the AP or SPC sections, I think it's useful.
I will add a note
The scene to me still seems to portray them in roughly the same way, taking damage from her without anyon standing out particularly more than in the other in durability, but I guess it can sorta work for support, even though I don't really like it, since we're kinda manipulatin the context.


Maybe that can work as minor support as well.
So do you agree with "At least High 8-C, possibly 5-B"?
That's fine.
Also, I'd recommend to link the latest revision history of the sandbox in the thread's op, rather than the sandbox itself, as the link will inevitably lead to a different page once this revision is done and you use the same sandbox for other projects.
I did that in multiple threads since I mainly use sandbox and I never actually thought about it, I will change it
Also, hoping to not be asking too much, it would be nice if you could write something in here intelligence section, leaving a blank "average" feels a bit shallow.
I thought about what to write there, she is not even particularly smart in school so average just seemed appropriate, I guess it could go to above average because she leaded the Champions team? I think she was once praised for her leading strategy but I will have to search it again.
Edit: Found it here
 
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Above Average due to leadership skills seems reasonable.

Also, thank you for helping out, Saman. What you have accepted here is probably fine to apply. 🙏
 
Fair enough. But there is something confusing me because I saw a thread about One punch man that wanted to add a bunch of powers because resisting inside a black hole would grant them those, I think it was quantum manipulation or whatever, so I have a lot of questions regarding applying physics to resist some attacks
I'd say more exotic things with less room for speculation or finer, less known details are likely to be accepted in this sense. It's the same as characters withstanding atomic bombs point blank and getting resistance to radiation, for that is a famous trope of nukes, and maybe even resistance to light and sound, as an atomic bomb is a very specific weapon with specific properties. The same could apply to a black hole, which is a specific item, known for its characteristics.
On the other hand, more generic elements like fire, ice, electricity etc.. have a myriad of subtle effects beyond what they are widely known for, but the more you enter the finer details, the more you rysk to enter specific speculation that is more likely to never have been in the author's intent.

Sometimes the story just wants to imply a characters survives, an attack, despite taking damage, but for artistic or narrative reasons they are shown or told to have sustained everything they would have had to endure in a realistic setting.

So do you agree with "At least High 8-C, possibly 5-B"?
Yes.

I thought about what to write there, she is not even particularly smart in school so average just seemed appropriate, I guess it could go to above average because she leaded the Champions team? I think she was once praised for her leading strategy but I will have to search it again.
Edit: Found it here
My pilosophy with the intelligence sections is generally to detail what the character is expected or known for, mainly in a generic way, then with detailed feats. The matter is of course complex when it comes to more alien characters which cannot be assumed at first sight to be comparable to humans, so they may require more explanations, but I'm digressing.
For Ms. Marvel I'd say we could do a basic rundown of her life, maybe with her accademic and/or professional history, and then do the same with her superhero career. What are her experiences? She fights villains on a daily basis? Are they varied? Or she helps mostly with support? She works alone or with others? She has teamed up? Is she experienced with her powers? Is she creative? Among other questions.

I always think as if I were to make an interview to the character, when it boils down to summarizing decades of appearances. To make an example, I'm leaving here what i wrote for Sandman when I revised his profile a couple of years ago.

Sandman is often mistaken for an idiot by both allies and foes, mostly because of his harsh and hot-heated attitude, but he has demonstrated many times to be much more than just brawn. He is a seasoned individual, with many years of experience in either committing or fighting crime. Sandman has been part of many groups and their different iterations, most notably the Frightfoul Four, the Sinister Six, the Wild Pack, the Avengers and more, with his valor being recognized by the likes of the Wizard, Silver Sable and Captain America. In his life he clashed with a great variety of metahumans, each with their own special abilities. Sandman knows dozens of creative ways to employ his powers, and has stated from time to time to having learned new tricks and applications, as well as having overcomed some of his weaknesses.
 
My pilosophy with the intelligence sections is generally to detail what the character is expected or known for, mainly in a generic way, then with detailed feats. The matter is of course complex when it comes to more alien characters which cannot be assumed at first sight to be comparable to humans, so they may require more explanations, but I'm digressing.
For Ms. Marvel I'd say we could do a basic rundown of her life, maybe with her accademic and/or professional history, and then do the same with her superhero career. What are her experiences? She fights villains on a daily basis? Are they varied? Or she helps mostly with support? She works alone or with others? She has teamed up? Is she experienced with her powers? Is she creative? Among other questions.

I always think as if I were to make an interview to the character, when it boils down to summarizing decades of appearances. To make an example, I'm leaving here what i wrote for Sandman when I revised his profile a couple of years ago.

Sandman is often mistaken for an idiot by both allies and foes, mostly because of his harsh and hot-heated attitude, but he has demonstrated many times to be much more than just brawn. He is a seasoned individual, with many years of experience in either committing or fighting crime. Sandman has been part of many groups and their different iterations, most notably the Frightfoul Four, the Sinister Six, the Wild Pack, the Avengers and more, with his valor being recognized by the likes of the Wizard, Silver Sable and Captain America. In his life he clashed with a great variety of metahumans, each with their own special abilities. Sandman knows dozens of creative ways to employ his powers, and has stated from time to time to having learned new tricks and applications, as well as having overcomed some of his weaknesses.
That seems quite a lot, I usually just go for direct evidence, for example I made a page about an architect so I wrote she was an award for it.
I don't really know what to say about experience I suppose being an avenger gave her some level of intelligence and experience for training with avengers, unfortunately most of her time as an avenger is also off panel. She has Bruno which is her support when the subject is science and or she needs to defeat someone through scientific means. I do think she is creative with the way she uses her powers and because she is a fanfic writer and apparently somewhat popular for it.
As it is right now seems fine but I will try to get something else later.
 
By checking the LS arguments again, I'd say I agree with Lord Tracer.
In the wide-perspective scan she messes with him with her elastic powers. In the other scan, where she flips him over, she just needs to move Mr. Hyde's body weight, as it doesn't seem one of those cases where "super anchoring" is assumed to be taking place, and she moves him sidewards by wrapping and shoving him in such a way he'd have to physical way to oppose her, because of balancing, on top of taking him by surprise.
She also admits he is stronger than her, so I believe that sets the deal.
I also believe that holding the symbionte would just scale to the theoretical weight of the symbionte itself.
 
Thank you for helping out. 🙏
 
Okay. Thank you to everybody who helped out here. 🙏
 
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