I agree with this (Especially the subsonic/transonic thing as for me a verse would have to be really blunt with the speeds/reactions of its characters to justify that.) mostly but I also agree to save such talk for a speed thread
This doesn't exactly negate my problem. The calculation assumes a very high number for an attack that is visibly just one cut. A breathing attack can have multiple cuts even if the person attacks only once, this is shown in wind breathing, where Shinazugawa attacked only once but the breathing multiplied the attack by 4 cuts. What helps that the attack that cut the fishs was a multiple attack and was not based 100% on speed is that on an earlier page it is shown that Tokito could only cut a few and then needed a specific technique to kill all fishes, so consider that he can cut many fish with only speed seems wank. Even the name of the technique Tokito used seems to indicate that it is a range attack
Also, the calculation assumes that the fish were moving at transonic speed
Here
You should read what Gyokko was thinking there on that exact page you've linked. Muichiro did cut all of the fish. His subsequent attack was for dealing with the poison the fish were spraying which is mentioned on the same page.
Yeah, more than ten per slash are definitely possible.
"Muichiro's attack range extends to several meters beyond the length of his sword, so it is possible that he occasionally cut more than one fish per swing."
That’s literally what I said when the previous thread was implementing the 100x multiplier. I even said it just feels more like Tanjirou is hyping himself up to try and overpower Gyutaro. We even see that Base Tanjirou can still barely keep up with Gyutaro so the gap between them clearly isn’t 100x. But since majority believes it should be used it was still applied anyways.
Iirc the revision that had that applied acknowledged it as just an adrenaline boost/how strong it was in that moment
I believe based on scaling the Swamp Demon above the Tongue and Horned Demon, who managed to give Kyogai a tough fight. Tanjiro's performance in the beginning would be attributed to him not yet adjusting to his injuries.
This is a different attack. He sliced 10000 demon fish via. multiple quick attacks, the demon fish released liquid poison before disappearing, then he did Scattering Mist Splash to push the poison away.
Scaling the Swamp Demon above the Tongue and Horned Demon would probably put said demon into the realm of being able to react and dodge Kyogai's claw attack which moves at the same speed as the sound grom his tsuzumi drum. That being said, what exactly would put the Swamp Demon above them? Is it him displaying a Blood Demon Art and the ease with which Zenitsu and Inosuke dispatched the latter two demons? In that case, I'd like to remind you of the fact that Inosuke wasn't exactly having an easy time with Kyogai either since he spent three days in his mansion.
Isn't Susamaru someone who was lied to about being a member of the Twelve Demon Moons? Tamayo outright said that she and Yahaba were too weak to be Twelve Demon Moons, so I find I wouldn't be sure about whether or not she actually qualifies as a Lower Moon candidate. There is also the fact that Tanjiro was genuinely struggling against Susamaru and Yahaba, so he isn't actually that much faster than them. He was simply using the third form to cut Susamaru's Temari balls which were controlled by Yahaba's arrows while also approaching Susamaru herself.This can yield MHS or MHS+ with snail speed. Obviously an outlier, though it conveys that Tanjiro at top speed is much faster than Lower Moon candidates.
I do agree with the notion that Tengen and Gyutaro are at this point in time significantly above Tanjiro in terms of power and speed which is only appropriate for Pillars and Upper Moons.Don't think Demon Slayer Marks were used against people who were equal to the characters. Akaza/Kokushibo/Muzan were arrogantly toying around for much of their fights. Muichiro was utterly overpowered by Gyokko and was trapped in his Water Prison Pot, but the Demon Slayer Mark gave him a sudden power up allowing him to escape the water prison and toy with Gyokko while holding back and affected by poison.
Tanjiro was below Daki when she wasn't at full power during their fight to the point that she could blitz him if she wanted (he only overpowering her temporarily when he burned his life force but he ran out of fuel before he can cut her head), and Daki is not noteworthy for Tengen.
While there is some reactive power levels going on, Tanjiro is still portrayed to be far below Gyutaro, as he was repeatedly being saved by Tengen, and Gyutaro compared Tanjiro to a snail around the end of the fight. Tanjiro's main method to help is trying to hit the homing blood projectiles from the side to change their trajectory away from Tengen, knowing that if he tries to face them directly they'll go through his sword.
The x100 boost is explicitly only for Tanjiro's case as it comes with a statement about a single strike not being enough and mustering a hundred times of that strength. It was not applied to every instance the Mark is awakened, in which case the Mark would have diminishing returns and be used for upscaling in future appearances.
That... That's really not a good justification, and it's not even something relevant to indicate that any random attack has transonic speed. Kyogai is a Semi-Lower Moon, he is above the average ordinary demon, we don't know what happened in the fight and with the scene that is shown it looks like it was a surprise attack. Inosuke for example is faster than the Horned Demon's reaction, but can only dodge a few centimeters against Kyogai's attacks even when they are far away each other. Also, we can't forget that even Muzan has specific attacks based in sounds
I noticed this later, but I still have other problems.
Also, you assume that Tokito cut all the fish before he dropped a few inches and considering the fish were trying to attack Tokito at this distance... I want to know why, those fish were dead pieces and scenes later we see Tokito on the ground frames later. Why are you assuming he cut 1000 fish before dead pieces hit his body? The fish were dead, they shouldn't even be moving at a speed compared to when they're alive
Again this kinda stuff is still against our rules and is considered Calc Stacking.
That is a Transonic feat, really shouldn't be considered support for Hypersonic ratings. But yeah they're pretty blatantly Transonic even in the manga considering they can dodge moves that go as fast as the sound of a drum.
Yeah but even in that case, a generic "hundred times stronger" statement like that could very well be hyperbolic. Also upon Guytaro coming out, Daki received a boost in power and speed, but even then Inosuke and Zenitsu could keep up.
Iirc people just used the weight of the Katana for the KE which got 8-B+
The effects of the breathing not being real is already acknowledged on the profiles in the form of Perception Manipulation. Someone else had the same issue. In the case of Zenitsu's MSH+ calculation using lightning speed, you'll have to take a closer look at Kaigaku.
I've looked the chapter from which the page comes up and checked Muzan's profile. He isn't stated to use sound attacks and doesn't have Sound Manipulation listed. I guess you've interpreted these craters on the ground and walls as being the result of soundwaves?
Isn't the calculation for the attack immediately prior to that?
Yeah agreed here (kind of)
Well, I disagree with that. Just because it resembles electricity doesn't mean it's as fast as lightning.
Yeah but with a sword attack, especially a thrusting motion, you're gonna put a lot more weight than that of the sword behind an attack. Ignoring that is just hiding an outlier.
I'm not denying creating a big statue is a showing of power, but it doesn't inherently scale 1:1 to physicals. Hell, one would have to prove he's actually creating the ice by lowering temperature instead of just manifesting it into existance- considering the reality warping that some other BDAs cause, that's very believable.
Again, the energy in Doma's BDA has nothing to do with physicals at all, so this is a false equivalency. Rui's threads were less durable than his neck, and maybe Doma's statues are less durable than his neck, but this is a different deal.
If it cannot be proven that Doma creates the ice through removing heat, then this isn't a heat feat at all but an unquantifiable creation feat.
I'm not denying there's a relation here, but it isn't necessarily one-to-one.
ShadowWhoWalks explicitly mentioned that it shows properties of real world electricity and Hantengu does have Electricity Manipulation for Sekido listed. You would need to refute said properties or show how they aren't sufficient proof for your argument to work.
Doma spreads cold air around with his fans, so he's definitely lowering the temperature to some degree with his Ice Manipulation.
Did we ever get a sense of how deep the water below them was as the ice “could have” been made from that
... Not all electricity moves at lightning speed. I don't deny it's electricity and I never did, but being called lightning isn't enough.
But if the cold from the fans is caused through some more abstract, reality warping ability...
I've taken a look at the chapter and what I can say about the matter is that they didn't even make an attempt to cut the statue he created at the end. They were going after Doma's neck which was weakened by Shinobu's poison.
The multiple properties include more than the shape. Such as causing paralysis with body spasm, appears to conduct through people's body, characters can insulate against it, and causing Lichtenberg figure scars.
Using sword mass was under the recommendation of AlexSolo. It functions as a slashing attack, and Zenitsu stated that his 'cut' was too shallow. So it is not like Zenitsu is ramming his body.
It is about having the same power source. Both his physicals and BDA are powered by the potency of his demon blood (which is enhanced by eating humans or receiving Muzan's blood)
He has an attack called "Freezing Cloud". It is very convoluted to go into reality warping territory.
Did they try to cut through the statue though? They were trying to cut Doma's neck ASAP before he recovers.
Seems like as if the description for technique contains false information since the chapter shows clearly them going after Doma instead of the statue. Should I correct that?
Oh, so she did that? I didn't notice.
Again I don't deny it's electricity, but does it really reach that level of energy? After all, multiple blasts are passively created just by gathering power, it's clearly weaker than the characters are.
Any sort of stabbing attack will have, at the very least, the arms weight behind it, and likely much more. Zenitsu was more or less equal to his opponent there so the cut being shallow was just an example of the demon being comparable.
