Demon Slayer: Pretty big downgrade

[Jackof_noTrades068]

To be fair it could also just be that Tanjiro's punch landed better than Spider's, after all Inosuke was airborne in the latter case so being flung away could have absorbed some of the blow. Or not, idk. Generally though I don't think it's controversial to say Father Spider was much stronger than either of them in the moment they fought.

Fair

 

[Arceus0x]

I don't think he was much stronger. Stronger? Yes. But not by the extent of not scaling. They landed slices on him and survived actual strikes, he wasn't joking around. So maybe potential downscale to some extent unless the feats turn out to be close to the feats we already have, in which case it would not matter.

But yeah dance of the fire god should 100% scale above whatever father spider dished out. Rui scales seriously above father spider and his threads especially.

 

[Arceus0x]

also can we upgrade tanjirou and give him max tier via headbutt cause it one-shotted inosuke and damaged the wind hashira?

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't think he was much stronger. Stronger? Yes. But not by the extent of not scaling. They landed slices on him and survived actual strikes, he wasn't joking around. So maybe potential downscale to some extent unless the feats turn out to be close to the feats we already have, in which case it would not matter.

Generally they could not cut him conventionally and Inosuke needed to hammer down on his katana with the other one multiple times to make a cut, and Tanjiro even thought they couldn't stop him and instead tried to drop a tree on him. They survived attacks from him but it ragdolled them every time. I'm not opposed to downscaling but it has to be consistent with other feats, although I don't doubt it will be.

But yeah dance of the fire god should 100% scale above whatever father spider dished out. Rui scales seriously above father spider and his threads especially.

Yeah I'm in full agreement here, in fact post-rehab Tanjiro should just fully scale since he could hurt and cut through another, much stronger Lower Moon with relatively little issue. Although it was a fake body so idk.

 

[Arceus0x]

I tried using a very presumptious attempt at calcing the first feat (smashing floor) and assuming a cylinder of 10cm tall and 3m in radius (using vfrag) it got me 0.04 tons or 9-A

This is extremely presumptive doe

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm gonna try giving some of these a shot, namely the two craters.

 

[Armorchompy]

Actually I wonder if we could use Rengoku knocking the train around while dashing through it as an AP feat. Probably redundant since those guys would be fairly high tier anyway.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I tried using a very presumptious attempt at calcing the first feat (smashing floor) and assuming a cylinder of 10cm tall and 3m in radius (using vfrag) it got me 0.04 tons or 9-A

Vfrag doesnt make sense here
Anyway

Red Line =168pxl | 0.20964641885
Blue Line = 123pxl | 0.15349112808

Red Line = 26pxl | 0.15349112808
Blue Line = 602pxl | 3.55390996554
Orange Line = 8pxl | 0.0472280394
Volume = 1.8739699911646m^3 or 1873969.99116cm^3
Energy = 14991759.9293 Joules or 0.00358311661 tons (9-B+)

edit: Yeah, 9-B is much more consistent than 9-A

 

[Arceus0x]

How the heck does vfrag make no sense? It's clearly not frag, but we see some small rocks. Unless you are saying it's pulverization, this should be vfrag at least

 

[Armorchompy]

The rocks are like, 30 cm in diameter so frag is safer I think. I don't agree with using the entire screen as the crater size since we don't actually see the destruction spread that far, only rocks being launched. I was also gonna use Tanjiro's head in that frame but I guess that's more up to personal choice.

 

[Arceus0x]

If you look at it that way then i guess it'd make sense

 

[Armorchompy]

I hope I don't come off as too picky, I promise I actually like this series lol

 

[Armorchompy]

Swamp Demon punch came out as roughly 30k joules to me, pretty worthless.

 

[Armorchompy]

Vfrag doesnt make sense here
Anyway

Red Line =168pxl | 0.20964641885
Blue Line = 123pxl | 0.15349112808

Red Line = 26pxl | 0.15349112808
Blue Line = 602pxl | 3.55390996554
Orange Line = 8pxl | 0.0472280394
Volume = 1.8739699911646m^3 or 1873969.99116cm^3
Energy = 14991759.9293 Joules or 0.00358311661 tons (9-B+)

edit: Yeah, 9-B is much more consistent than 9-A

by the way what did you use for tanjiro's head height, just the default 22 cm or is there some calculation specifically for Tanjiro's head that I'm not aware of?

 

[Armorchompy]

Compared to what, I thought you were using head size to get hand size.

 

[Armorchompy]

this is what i've got so far, obviously willing to discuss the feats before trying to get this evaluated


EDIT: apparently default crater height is 1/4 of its diameter so i'll adjust it tomorrow

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

this is what i've got so far, obviously willing to discuss the feats before trying to get this evaluated

I agree with LS downgrade

The second calc is useful for fodder demons

The third I completely disagree. You are using the size of Tanjiro's head to calculate the radius of the crater, but Tanjiro's head is not visible and he has jumped up an unknown distance, so it is not possible to use this to measure something that is on the ground. The depth is also wrong, you can measure it the same way I did here in the thread.

So, since we are also talking about things other than AP, I will talk about the speed feats

• This calculation considers that even the weakest demons and slayers are faster than sound, but where does this come from? Like, a Semi-Lower Moon uses sound attacks (which means it is a much stronger demon than the common one), so it doesn't make sense for a common demon to be faster than sound. The way M3X is talking it sounds like there is really a statement about demons being faster than sound, but I don't remember any of that. Damn, even a upper moon uses sound attacks; I don't want to downgrade the verse to subsonic, but considering that any random demon attack is transonic is wank
• This calculation assumes that Muichiro attacked 10000 times with his sword, but in the scene it appears to be simply a single attack

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

This calculation considers that even the weakest demons and slayers are faster than sound, but where does this come from? Like, a Semi-Lower Moon uses sound attacks (which means it is a much stronger demon than the common one), so it doesn't make sense for a common demon to be faster than sound.

I agree with this imo Tanjiro’s Calc should be adjusted to use Superhuman or Subsonic speeds rather than sound
As the only objectively Supersonic stuff I know is Tanjiro dodging Kyogai’s attacks and Zenitsu making noises similar to thunder (as sonic booms actually sound like thunder)

 

[Nehz_XZX]

This calculation assumes that Muichiro attacked 10000 times with his sword, but in the scene it appears to be simply a single attack

The attack you've linked is Muichiro deflecting the fish pieces and their poison after he landed on the ground. The calculation is for an attack that he performed mid-air and your linked attack is preceded by a statement from Gyokko that Muichiro already cut all of the fish at this point. You can read the chapter to check on the order of the linked pages. Also going off the end that is listed alongside the calculation on the verse page the end that assumes that Muichiro used 1000 slashes for the 10000 fishes was accepted instead of the end with the assumption of him using 10000 slashes.

 

[Armorchompy]

I also disagree with many of the speed feats, but since that's a slightly spinier case than LS I'm gonna leave that away for now.

Anyway, I agree that Tanjiro's head is not good for pixel scaling (I did the pixel scaling before you posted yours), however I don't think using the hand works well either. In the first panel, you compared its width knuckle to knuckle, but in the panel where he punches the ground we're viewing it from the side instead. Also, again that first panel the hand is a lot closer to the screen than Tanjiro's head is which would make for slightly inflated results, although by itself that's fine.

I'll admit I can't really tell what you measured with the orange line to get depth.

 

[Armorchompy]

I also disagree with many of the speed feats, but since that's a slightly spinier case than LS I'm gonna leave that away for now.

To elaborate, using Subsonic reaction or attack speed times for characters in general leads to very inflated results and is considered calc stacking, let alone Transonic, which is 9 times higher than Subsonic. Also using 1/220 FPS reaction speed for "peak human" is generally exaggerated since we cannot necessarily react at those speeds and using our peak human reactions of 0.1/0.08 seconds is better. In itself this kinda ruins the Unconscious Zenitsu, Tanjiro Dodge and Muzan Blitz feats.

The Tanjiro dodge also has another issue in that it assumes Tanjiro moved by 24 cm before the demon could cross the distance between his fingers and his eye, which clearly isn't the case as its arms have already moved 30/40 cm in the same panel.

The lightning statements IMO aren't solid enough to actually give MHS+ speeds.

This only leaves the fish feat which I can't really evaluate since a lot of the scans are broken, but generally I agree that slashing 10000 times to kill 10000 fish is a bit silly, but that's to be seen.

Regardless let's focus on AP for now.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

To elaborate, using Subsonic reaction or attack speed times for characters in general leads to very inflated results and is considered calc stacking, let alone Transonic, which is 9 times higher than Subsonic. Also using 1/220 FPS reaction speed for "peak human" is generally exaggerated since we cannot necessarily react at those speeds and using our peak human reactions of 0.1/0.08 seconds is better. In itself this kinda ruins the Unconscious Zenitsu, Tanjiro Dodge and Muzan Blitz feats.

The Tanjiro dodge also has another issue in that it assumes Tanjiro moved by 24 cm before the demon could cross the distance between his fingers and his eye, which clearly isn't the case as its arms have already moved 30/40 cm in the same panel.

The lightning statements IMO aren't solid enough to actually give MHS+ speeds.

This only leaves the fish feat which I can't really evaluate since a lot of the scans are broken, but generally I agree that slashing 10000 times to kill 10000 fish is a bit silly, but that's to be seen.

Regardless let's focus on AP for now.

Do I understand that right that Subsonic cannot be used despite demons being generally depicted as much stronger and faster than regular humans as well as having feats of completely blitzing them because that counts as some sort of hidden calculation?

 

[Armorchompy]

That's basically it yeah. Generally I'd accept baseline superhuman speed/reaction speed for this kinda stuff but nothing more. I understand that it is a bit weird but keep in mind that all those feats would unquestionably give Subsonic or whatever results off a calculation, which is why we can rate them that way without needing one.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

That's basically it yeah. Generally I'd accept baseline superhuman speed/reaction speed for this kinda stuff but nothing more. I understand that it is a bit weird but keep in mind that all those feats would unquestionably give Subsonic or whatever results off a calculation, which is why we can rate them that way without needing one.

I'd go for Superhuman since that's basically what demons by default are.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I'm definitely fine with that.

But again we should wait on speed, that's another topic to tackle after attack potency, let's focus on one at a time.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Yeah I'm definitely fine with that.

But again we should wait on speed, that's another topic to tackle after attack potency, let's focus on one at a time.

I can agree with focusing on Attack Potency for now but I'd like to add that Muzan's blitz feat takes into consideration the fact that none of the Lower Moons could even perceive that he was moving which is presumably why 1/220 FPS was used since that is more about perception than reaction.

 

[Armorchompy]

FTE feats are weird and kinda getting revised rn, but that does make sense, I might have to ask what we treat this kinda feat like to other calc members. That said, while this is mostly unrelated from what you said, at least in the anime version which is what was calculated, they weren't looking at the whole path, they were just looking at Muzan, so he wouldn't need to move FTE for the whole 200+ meters, just enough to get away from their POV.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

FTE feats are weird and kinda getting revised rn, but that does make sense, I might have to ask what we treat this kinda feat like to other calc members. That said, while this is mostly unrelated from what you said, at least in the anime version which is what was calculated, they weren't looking at the whole path, they were just looking at Muzan, so he wouldn't need to move FTE for the whole 200+ meters, just enough to get away from their POV.

He still needed to decapitate Lower Moon 3 and return to his original spot before said Lower Moon even realized that it had happened and he did it so fast that the two remaining Lower Moons who should know on some level that he is faster than them were shocked despite the fact that Enmu was clearly expecting Lower Moon 3 to get caught. Them not having looked at the whole path doesn't really matter if Muzan returns so fast that they couldn't even see that he was gone.

 

[Armorchompy]

I see, forgot about that. I'm still not 100% sure if we use the 1/220 FPS thing in that situation, I'll ask around.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I see, forgot about that. I'm still not 100% sure if we use the 1/220 FPS thing in that situation, I'll ask around.

1/220 FPS comes apparently from Jasonsith who commented on the blog.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah but I'm still slightly suspicious on it so I'm gonna ask around anyway- it's probably fine though, don't mind this.

 

[Armorchompy]

The second calc is useful for fodder demons

By the way, if I remember correctly the Swamp Demon was a fairly strong one, he'd eaten over ten people and all so I wouldn't scale him to your random, freshly converted demon.

 

[Arceus0x]

hmm maybe for the log feat we can use the anime? i mean the manga generally (especially early stages) didn't do justice to some fights.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean it's a pretty straightforward feat, what does the anime add to it?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

By the way, if I remember correctly the Swamp Demon was a fairly strong one, he'd eaten over ten people and all so I wouldn't scale him to your random, freshly converted demon.

Said demon also had a Blood Demon Art which isn't something that demons receive upon being converted. Better examples for complete fodder demons would probably be the one Tanjiro encountered shortly before he met Urokodaki and most of the demons from the Final Selection.

 

[Arceus0x]

I mean it's a pretty straightforward feat, what does the anime add to it?

like in case we really need speed

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah, and considering Tanjiro was able to stagger it with a headbutt and all, plus the fact that he could fight against a freshly-demonized Nezuko, the weakest demons are probably 10-A/9-C.

like in case we really need speed

Oh yeah anime timeframes should be fine to use, unless it's got some slow-mo or something. Otherwise we just assume one second or something like that

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Yeah, and considering Tanjiro was able to stagger it with a headbutt and all, plus the fact that he could fight against a freshly-demonized Nezuko, the weakest demons are probably 10-A/9-C.

I think 9-C is more likely. Tanjiro being able to stagger a demon with his headbutt is apparently a result of his head being really hard which has been mentioned and emphasized multiple times throughout the series. Said demon would have snapped Tanjiro's neck with him unable to fight back if Nezuko didn't interfere. The freshly-demonized Nezuko has according to Giyu been expending a lot of energy to convert into a demon as well as to heal her injuries and was therefore in a severely starved state. In addition to that she was growing in strength against Tanjiro and would have eventually been able to overwhelm him with time. Not too long after that she was able to kick a demon's head off, so I wouldn't really think of her as 10-A.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah probably, I didn't pay much attention during those first episodes so I was really just guessing. Kicking someone's head off is roughly 9-C/9-B, probably 9-B in this case, but either way, that's not important rn.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Though it wasn't in the manga, we have this feat from the anime for one of the fodder demons during the Final Selection.