Demon slayer, possible Calc issue

[Armorchompy]

The base has a flat and wide enough foundation that parts of the boulder needs to phase into the ground in order to tilt from a microscopic cut in the middle, and the boulder is visibly not tilted, and the undestroyed section at the bottom shows that displacement didn't occur. The features appear to be too consistently drawn to be art mistakes; it is not like a single panel is getting nitpicked.

The perspective is really weird so this isn't as clear-cut (ha) as you think.

It is my impression that when it comes to the depiction of a feat vs claim of an art mistake, there is a burden to provide evidence of the existence of an art mistake (which is different than claiming that the feat is an outlier).

I never mentioned outlierdom. Admittedly 9-A for early DS is a bit questionable considering there's barely any 9-B stuff there, but that's not the point here

I'm simply claiming that considering that Tanjiro's task is to split the boulder and that task is repeatedly stated, the writer would have made it clearer if something else happened instead, such as Tanjiro pulverizing such a large amount of stone.

But in the very scan that you posted, it says the boulder was "split".

This isn't the only time, I believe.

 

[Arceus0x]

why is it that in every thread i'm in there's someone whining about other verses

Oh I ain't whining about other verses. I've no quarrel with them. Whay i am whining about is the fact that this verse is somehow different and for some reason we should treat a drawing not how it's drawn but what you assume to be an art error.

 

[Armorchompy]

Oh I ain't whining about other verses. I've no quarrel with them. Whay i am whining about is the fact that this verse is somehow different and for some reason we should treat a drawing not how it's drawn but what you assume to be an art error.

different verse, different context, you've been told this already in other threads so you really should know by now.

 

[DMUA]

Because pulv. itself is based on compressive strength values and cutting clearly involves pressing in the cut area, except the sword is your super-thin hydraulic press. It's like cutting a rock with a hydraulic press blade and applying compression over a super thin area but fast. And also because there's not enough debris left in the aftermath minus that small bottom portion which really isn't that significant to the destroyed volume in the long run.

I mean like,

I guess I kinda see what you're talking about, but that still means this is a cut, and the calculation should be treated as such.

 

[KLOL506]

I mean like,

I guess I kinda see what you're talking about, but that still means this is a cut, and the calculation should be treated as such.

That's... what it is tho? That's how we're supposed to treat cutting calcs.

Area of the object cut x the blade's thickness x the compressive strength of the material of the cut object.

 

[DMUA]

A cut uses tensile strength, which is 60 MPA in this case.

 

[KLOL506]

A cut uses tensile strength, which is 60 MPA in this case.

Ugarik said to use compressive strength tho.

In any case tho, using either compressive strength or tensile strength isn't gonna get him outta Wall level, both the tensile strength's 1.59 megajoule value and compressive strength's 5.696 megajoule value are just separate from each other by a magnitude of 3.6x.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The perspective is really weird so this isn't as clear-cut (ha) as you think.

The perspective is decent enough, and the wiki made due with much more confusing perspectives. Tilting over means that the top should be multiple times as wide as the bottom which is clearly not.

I'm simply claiming that considering that Tanjiro's task is to split the boulder and that task is repeatedly stated, the writer would have made it clearer if something else happened instead, such as Tanjiro pulverizing such a large amount of stone.

But in the very scan that you posted, it says the boulder was "split".

We can speak about authorial intent, but that doesn't take precedent over the events as depicted in the work. Certainly not if it is based on guessing or if it contradicts the depicted events.
As a counter argument, we could make endless speculations to support a point of view. For example: The way the author drew the boulder made it not feasible for the boulder to tilt over without lifting it, so when it is time to slice it in the next chapter an oversized slice was created to emphasize that the entire boulder got cut in half as opposed to the sword getting buried in the boulder.

If we have a statement with about slicing a boulder with no context, I would agree with a minimalist interpretation. But we see the manner/aftermath in which slicing feat is done, hence the calc.

 

[Armorchompy]

The perspective is decent enough, and the wiki made due with much more confusing perspectives. Tilting over means that the top should be multiple times as wide as the bottom which is clearly not.

Again, minor art inconsistency which is contradicted by statements.

We can speak about authorial intent, but that doesn't take precedent over the events as depicted in the work. Certainly not if it is based on guessing or if it contradicts the depicted events.

There's no need to guess considering the characters literally say the boulder was split in half, or hacked in two, or what have you. It's made incredibly clear.

If we have a statement with about slicing a boulder with no context, I would agree with a minimalist interpretation. But we see the manner/aftermath in which slicing feat is done, hence the calc.

You are giving weight to a minor drawing mistake over the words of the character who actually did the feat, who I think would know what he just did well enough considering he's been trying it for a year.

We're just repeating ourselves by now so I'd like to close out this argument soon if possible.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Since this argument has turned circular I will specify I also agree with Armor’s side of the argument

 

[Armorchompy]

that's DMUA, KLOL, Jack, myself and LIFE_OF_KING versus Shadow and Arceus, I think

 

[KLOL506]

that's DMUA, KLOL, Jack, myself and LIFE_OF_KING versus Shadow and Arceus, I think

HOW DOTH ONE REWARD SUCH A BASED INDIVIDUAL FOR MENTIONING MY NAME

 

[Armorchompy]

HOW DOTH ONE REWARD SUCH A BASED INDIVIDUAL FOR MENTIONING MY NAME

50 euros will do

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Again, minor art inconsistency

These are all the instances where we can see the boulder to any large extent:

The features I mentioned are very consistent, hence the claim of art inconsistency is quite bizarre.

which is contradicted by statements.
[...]
There's no need to guess considering the characters literally say the boulder was split in half, or hacked in two, or what have you. It's made incredibly clear.

I agree that the boulder was split in half. The issue is the claim is that the split was done via. a microscopic fissure, which is contradicted by what we actually see.

We're just repeating ourselves by now so I'd like to close out this argument soon if possible.

If we both agree that the actual math in the calc is fine then it can be concluded. Plenty of calc get accepted based on math, and then the community discuss whether it gets applied based on context and art consistency.

 

[Armorchompy]

If we both agree that the actual math in the calc is fine then it can be concluded. Plenty of calc get accepted based on math, and then the community discuss whether it gets applied based on context and art consistency.

Yeah, that's what's being discussed rn, whether it's usable. So no, the discussion can't be concluded just cause the math is probably fine.à

Also "pulverized a large vertical section of an object" is not the traditional meaning of "split", and if that was what happened, it would be made clearer.

 

[Chariot190]

Does the anime give any further context on this shit at all?
Or are you all stuck working with just the above panels?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

If it doesn't contradict the meaning of split, and the visuals are clear about what happened, then what is the issue? The visuals informs us of the context of how it was split, and through the visuals do we calc the feat.

 

[Armorchompy]

Does the anime give any further context on this shit at all?
Or are you all stuck working with just the above panels?

Don't think so, since the actual cutting happens off-screen because Tanjiro is under an illusion of sorts while he does it.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Does the anime give any further context on this shit at all?
Or are you all stuck working with just the above panels?

The anime also shows a large gap in the area where Tanjiro struck just like the manga with no further explanation off screen technically.
So we didn’t see whether it tilted or if Tanjiro reduced such a large section of rock to dust

 

[Chariot190]

I guess take the thickness of his blade and calc that as the width like KLOL said.
Alternatively, I'd say calc the thickness of the cut, given well, that's the feat, but if we dont see the cut's width while it's happening, or immediately after, but rather just after the fact after the boulder would have already slanted a bit due to gravity and its own weight, it makes getting the cut width difficult as the visuals could be compromised by gravity. But again think that's been brought up.

I guess maybe if you want to be stupidly anal about it, take the panels, overlap the boulders in a editing program, **** with the opacity, and see how much volume was removed between the before and after? But at that point that seems a bit eh.

 

[KLOL506]

50 euros will do

Paypal's illegal in my place, so...

 

[KLOL506]

I guess take the thickness of his blade and calc that as the width like KLOL said.
Alternatively, I'd say calc the thickness of the cut, given well, that's the feat, but if we dont see the cut's width while it's happening, or immediately after, but rather just after the fact after the boulder would have already slanted a bit due to gravity and its own weight, it makes getting the cut width difficult as the visuals could be compromised by gravity. But again think that's been brought up.

I guess maybe if you want to be stupidly anal about it, take the panels, overlap the boulders in a editing program, **** with the opacity, and see how much volume was removed between the before and after? But at that point that seems a bit eh.

Sounds a bit excessive for a simple rock cutting calc.

Like I said, the 5.696 megajoule result that I calc'd would more than do for this feat.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Have we taken into consideration that Tanjiro compares his cut on the rock to the cut he did on Sabito's mask?

 

[Armorchompy]

Also again Tanjiro always does clear cuts with his sword, slicing enemies' heads off cleanly and stuff like that, it would be really weird if this was the only exception.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Have we taken into consideration that Tanjiro compares his cut on the rock to the cut he made on Sabito's mask?

What actually happened to the boulder in reality is more relevant than what happened to Sabito in a dream.

---

There are small fragments of crushed rock remaining at the bottom of the boulder, and I wouldn't describe what resulted in them as clear cuts.

 

[Armorchompy]

That's just extra evidence that shows you're suggesting goes against everything else Demon Slayer shows us, there's literally no other cutting attack with such weird effects and we're supposed to assume this is the only exception, which IMO isn't reasonable with the scarce evidence provided.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

We are actually shown significantly weirder attacks in the series being done by simply slashing a sword.

So a weird slashing attacking that aren't clean once in a demon blue moon isn't a problem in the series.

 

[Armorchompy]

And all of those wacky weird attacks result in clean cuts.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Also, we have to remember that these attacks used breaths, which contextually are superhuman techniques. In the case of Tanjiro cutting the rock, it was just a "normal" sword attack

 

[Nehz_XZX]

In the anime Tanjiro was shown taking a breath before slashing at Sabito and learning Total Concentration Breathing was part of his training and also something that Sabito specifically mentioned as something he hasn't fully learned yet with Makomo helping him out with that. So, I'm quite sure that he was using that when slashing the boulder, though I agree that the attack was just him normally swinging his sword without using a Water Breathing form.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Tanjiro only used physical reinforcement, the techniques he had not used

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Tanjiro only used physical reinforcement, the techniques he had not used

This also makes sense as to why there were no water effects when he slashed.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Only the Twisting Whirpool can be said to produce clean cuts, most of the rest otherwise at minimum pushes objects away due to their AoE (potentially crushing them), and Dust Whilwind Slice explicitly crushes.

Makomo was teaching Tanjiro how to properly use the techniques Urokodaki taught him.

He went to the Final Selection shortly after, so he became proficient in all ten forms by then.

Furthermore, if it was a normal slash, it wouldn't reach the other end of the boulder, as the sword is simply way too short.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Makomo was teaching Tanjiro how to properly use the techniques Urokodaki taught him

He didn't say that

Furthermore, if it was a normal slash, it wouldn't reach the other end of the boulder, as the sword is simply way too short.

Man, Tanjiro simply wanted to cut a mask but unintentionally he split a rock. Do you really want to ask the logic in this? He did not want to cut Sabito's face, so if the sword had a range of 2 meters it would hit his opponent's face, which he did not. The author must have followed dumb logic.

"If he attacked thing X he will break thing X without affecting thing Y that is behind thing X"

 

[Armorchompy]

Again, slashing stuff that's longer than normal is incredibly common in japanese media so it doesn't hold any weight. And, no, making heads fly as you cut them off is not comparable to pulverizing the entire area you hit, not even the same ballpark.

Seriously, I don't think there's a point in still talking about this, by now this is just stonewalling.

 

[KLOL506]

Jesus Christ this is still going on?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Unfortunately, yes

But considering that most people (Literally no one agrees), including CGMs, do not agree with a 22 centimeter diameter cut, this can probably be finished. Idk

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

He didn't say that

Sure, while practicing the ten forms Urokodaki taught him, Makomo had no input and was of no help.

Man, Tanjiro simply wanted to cut a mask but unintentionally he split a rock. Do you really want to ask the logic in this? He did not want to cut Sabito's face, so if the sword had a range of 2 meters it would hit his opponent's face, which he did not. The author must have followed dumb logic.

"If he attacked thing X he will break thing X without affecting thing Y that is behind thing X"

As previously said, what happened in the dream is not indicative of reality.

Again, slashing stuff that's longer than normal is incredibly common in japanese media so it doesn't hold any weight. And, no, making heads fly as you cut them off is not comparable to pulverizing the entire area you hit, not even the same ballpark.

Seriously, I don't think there's a point in still talking about this, by now this is just stonewalling.

So if it is common in Japanese media, we should ignore that sections of the boulder vanished and that there are crushed bits remaining?

Previously you said that you are not appealing to outliers, so now the argument switched once again to 'it is too weird'?

 

[Armorchompy]

So if it is common in Japanese media, we should ignore that sections of the boulder vanished and that there are crushed bits remaining?

Previously you said that you are not appealing to outliers, so now the argument switched once again to 'it is too weird'?

My argument never switched. It's always been "you're ignoring the verse's consistency and several statements for a minor art mistake".

Everyone disagrees with your interpretation of the feat and you have stonewalled it for way too much time. Please stop pushing it or I will try and ask for a thread ban.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Sure, while practicing the ten forms Urokodaki taught him, Makomo had no input and was of no help.

She helped, she taught him to reinforce physical strength and showed him how to fight. It's like Tanjiro says

• Makomo points out the detecta in my style. She corrects my unnecessary movements and bad habits.

She in this scene explains the bad moves Tanjiro was making in the fight against Sabito. So much so that there is no "Bad Moves" when the goal is to break a rock with a single strike. And you know, one of the characteristics of Kimetsu is that when a character uses a breathing technique the same character says the name of the technique like a schizophrenic, which not happen in the scene where Tanjiro cuts the rock. Tanjiro himself says that what Makomo taught him the most was to know when to attack the opponent at the right moment, with a thread indicating the movement

As previously said, what happened in the dream is not indicative of reality.

The question is: Why? The things that happen in the illusion happen in the normal world. When Tanjiro is attacked he gets hurt, even though in theory Sabito is only an illusion.