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Death Battle Season Ten Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

NotoriouSoda said:
Although Fr Superman when done extremely well is a W character
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^^^^^^^^^^^This right here is also what pissed me off about GvS2. Because they made it seem like Superman was this boring ass character who was only good for being limitless and not being able to lose, when they completely forget that the reason why people love Superman is due to the sheer altruism and hope that he inspires in us.

Superman is what many consider to be a god trying to be human, a hero who uses all that power he has for the betterment and protection of all life that he sees and experiences. He is a character who can go faster then light and break entire planets with ease, yet is happy to help a kid get a kite stuck out of a tree or assist an old lady walk down the street just because he's that caring and helpful towards others.

And yes I understand that Superman doesn't go through traditional types of character development which, regrettably, can make it seem like Superman is the perfect character with no flaws. But I think the strength of Superman lies in his altruism for all, and his ability to make us feel hope for the future and that things can get better if we follow his example of being kind to others, so just to see Death Battle shit all over that in 2015 feels like an honest slap to the face to the people who see why Superman is awesome.
 
ZeedKZ said:


Walter White vs. Michael Corleone
Midora vs. Blackbeard
Godzilla Ultima vs. Bill Cipher
Raven vs. Magik
Whisper the Wolf vs. Eustace
Nemesis vs. The Magician
The Hero of the Wild vs. The Tarnished One
Eddie the Head vs. Evil Ernie
Rob Lucci vs. Grimmjow
Battle for Dream Island vs. Inanimate Insanity
The Headless Horseman vs. El Charro *****
Ash Crimson vs. Itachi Uchiha
Rorschach vs. Harry Du Bois
The Mane Six vs. The Sailor Scouts
Plants vs. Zombies (Battle Royale)
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Eddie vs Ernie?

Let's see,Iron Maiden is THE Traditional Heavy Metal/NWOBHM band,Eddie wins by default.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
I like DCAU show Superman, but most of the time I just find other characters with similar moral centers more engaging. Like Spiderman or Optimus Prime
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I think when it comes to Superman, I think he's at his most engaging in the DCAU. Mainly because it gives him a legitimately balanced character. Clark is a good guy, nice, thoughtful and alway there to fight the good fight. But he's still person. He's fallible. The guy doesn't hate or get angry that often but when he does...HOO BOY. His enmity with Darkseid and Luthor really shows in the DCAU and I love that. You can't have enemies like that and who pull stunts on that magnitude and not develop some searing animosity towards them.
 
C2_of_Omegon said:
I think when it comes to Superman, I think he's at his most engaging in the DCAU. Mainly because it gives him a legitimately balanced character. Clark is a good guy, nice, thoughtful and alway there to fight the good fight. But he's still person. He's fallible. The guy doesn't hate or get angry that often but when he does...HOO BOY. His enmity with Darkseid and Luthor really shows in the DCAU and I love that. You can't have enemies like that and who pull stunts on that magnitude and not develop some searing animosity towards them.
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Personally I'd argue that Superman from Superman/Batman: Public Enemies is one of the most engaging versions of Superman outside the comics, not just because it keeps his ability to be nice yet also able to get angry...but the bromance between Clark and Bruce is just, wow, it goes to show why so many people hate it when DC tries to make them fight when they'll always be best friends.

I'm not going to lie, it's a genuine crime that people don't talk about Public Enemies. It's definitely not as thought provoking as Superman vs The Elite, or as iconic as the DCAU, but I think Public Enemies does a damn fine job at showing the part of Superman and the relationships he has with his loved ones and his friends.
 
NotoriouSoda said:
Superman vs The Elite is definitely my favorite Superman movie
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It helps that Superman in that movie is voiced by George Newbern aka SEPHIROTH. So when you combine two badasses into one voice then you get nothing but good times ahead of you.

But yeah, that movie is top tier DC media....and it makes the DCEU even more pathetic in hindsight when you realize that the DCEU was already given the blue prints to something pretty great and ****** up spectacularly. I mean it's just amazing how badly they messed up some of the most well known characters in fiction
 
NotoriouSoda said:
Superman vs The Elite is definitely my favorite Superman movie
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I've already said this a while ago in another thread, but Supes vs the Elite (or the comic equivalent) is a much better example as to why heroes shouldn't kill compared to Batman's speech in Under the Red Hood. When a hero starts to go off the rails, people are afraid, ND at that point why would they be a hero?
 
90s rival
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goku__vs_seiya_fan_art__by_mickestudio_dfpunv7-fullview.jpg
3fea2598b544a7d6c9d3bf16aaa2dab6.jpg
goku_contra_seiya_22426.jpg
 
NotoriouSoda said:
Although Fr Superman when done extremely well is a W character
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I feel like the whole "Superman is the strongest hero who always wins" idea that shows like Death Battle have parroted for years have kinda done a disservice to Clark as a character. Like everyone sees him as a boring guy who never looses and struggles despite that being far from the case.
 
LordGinSama said:
Tbh pretty sure DBH Goku is strong than Peak Seiya.
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Doesn't Seiya have 5-D shit in it or something? Because don't quote me on this one, but I vaguely remember there were some arguments that were made where someone scaled the gods to 5-D and Pegasus Seiya scales to it in his God Cloth or something like that.

Of course Seiya's biggest issue is getting DBH Goku's almost like smurf hax in potency and versatility, but I figured Seiya was as strong AP wise though I could just be wrong on that part.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
I've already said this a while ago in another thread, but Supes vs the Elite (or the comic equivalent) is a much better example as to why heroes shouldn't kill compared to Batman's speech in Under the Red Hood. When a hero starts to go off the rails, people are afraid, ND at that point why would they be a hero?
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I always took Batman speech in Under the Red Hood as talking more about himself than heroes in general. That HE would never come back from that. That HE wouldn't know where the line is anymore and he wouldn't know how to stop. It's acknowledgment that he doesn't have the capability to walk the fine line or come back from that.

Plus, the difference between what Batman is up against and what Superman is, are their archenemies. Joker and Luthor represent philosophical debates to what Batman and Superman truly represent. For Batman, his stance is that we have to act outside of social norms because the world isn't perfect but that doesn't mean that those norms are unimportant. Joker says that the fact that random injustice happens, means that there is no justice. That you can destroy innocence, means that there is no innocence. Hence, your life is a joke. So when Joker commits his crimes, he's constantly escalating because he's trying to push Batman in to compromising his codes, his morals and thus, proving Joker right. The fact that Batman acknowledges that if he kills, he turns into the same as the criminals he stops and punishes, is a show of self-awareness. Batman is a dichotomy. He is a product of a need for vengeance against the criminal element and injustice that took away his parents and shattered his innocence. It's also part of the reason he's such a control freak, because he doesn't want to feel helpless again. Moreover, he blames himself for not stopping his parent's death, even though it wasn't his fault. He tries so hard, because he doesn't want to fail anyone else. Batman is ultimately a compassionate individual who wants to prevent that same harm from happening to others due to the malefactors in our imperfect world. He has taken his rage and his anger and has funneled them down a positive path for the benefit of both himself and others. So, he's already walking a fine line to not allow his need to punish criminals override his humanity and noble aspirations. If he takes a life, becoming judge, jury and executioner, then he has gone over the edge and has become like the criminals: putting his own wants and needs first at the expense of others. He becomes the very thing that took away his parents.

With Superman, Luthor represents the opposite of what Superman is. Superman and Lex represent the two measuring sticks society looks at in people. Superman presents the inner strength that society says we should have. The strength to be compassionate, kind and help lift others up so they can help lift you as well. Lex represents the outer strength that society says you could have. The strength to be ambitious and to succeed in spite of the odds arrayed against you. He's a powerful businessman and one of the most intelligent people on the planet. He's seen and done more than most ever will. But, this has come at the cost of Lex's soul. He is more monster than man. He will exploit anyone and anything to get what he wants, which is everything. There is a void in Lex that can never be filled because he has failed to work on turning himself into a better person. His sense of self is brittle, ultimately. This show in the fact that Lex pushes others down to raise himself up, even though he doesn't actually need to. His level of intelligence and drive put him into a different category than your average Joe. Instead of realizing how much that drags him down, he enjoys that. He enjoys toying with people, lording his gifts and accomplishments over them. Lex represents the greedy, petty, and self-serving nature of humanity that Superman fights against. Even if Superman killed Lex, that wouldn't change anything because Superman's true enemy is the corruption that Lex embodies. Someone else would just rise to take over where Lex started. Killing Luthor doesn't solve the problem, it just gets rid of the current face of it. Superman is there to show that there is a better way. That you don't have to be like Lex in order to achieve great things or just simple happiness. He wants to inspire people so that, together, we can all achieve the things Lex has but without sacrificing each other and what makes us people. The hope for a better world that we all can live into together in happiness and achieve greatness for everyone.

At least, that's how I've always looked at things.

Made some edits to flesh out my thoughts.
 
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The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Doesn't Seiya have 5-D shit in it or something? Because don't quote me on this one, but I vaguely remember there were some arguments that were made where someone scaled the gods to 5-D and Pegasus Seiya scales to it in his God Cloth or something like that.

Of course Seiya's biggest issue is getting DBH Goku's almost like smurf hax in potency and versatility, but I figured Seiya was as strong AP wise though I could just be wrong on that part.
Click to expand...
Heroes characters can destroy an infinite amount 5-D structures (on this wiki).

But I think Dearh Battle put Heroes at normal 5-D, so who knows.
 
C2_of_Omegon said:
I always took Batman speech in Under the Red Hood as talking more about himself than heroes in general. That HE would never come back from that. That HE wouldn't know where the line is anymore and he wouldn't know how to stop. It's acknowledgment that he doesn't have the capability to walk the fine line or come back from that.
Click to expand...
Yeah but it's hard to see that when a lot of batman media that's spread around has Bruce forcing his moral code onto others
C2_of_Omegon said:
Plus, the difference between what Batman is up against and what Superman is, are their archenemies. Joker and Luthor represent philosophical debates to what Batman and Superman truly represent. For Batman, his stance is that we have to act outside of social norms because the world isn't perfect but that doesn't mean that those norms are unimportant. Joker says that the fact that random injustice happens, means that there is no justice. That you can destroy innocence, means that there is no innocence. Hence, your life is a joke. So when Joker commits his crimes, he's constantly escalating because he's trying to push Batman in to compromising his codes, his morals and thus, proving Joker right. The fact that Batman acknowledges that if he kills, he turns into the same as the criminals he stops and punishes.

With Superman, Luthor represents the opposite of what Superman is. Superman and Lex represent the two measuring sticks society looks at in people. Superman presents the inner strength that society says we should have. Lex represents the outer strength that society says you could have. He's a powerful businessman and one of the most intelligent people on the planet. He's seen and done more than most ever will. But, this has come at the cost of Lex's soul. He is more monster than man. He will exploit anyone and anything to get what he wants, which is everything. Lex pushes others down to raise himself up, even though he doesn't actually need to. But he enjoys that. He enjoys toying with people. Lex represents the greedy, self-serving nature of people that Superman fights against. Even if Superman killed Lex, that wouldn't change anything because Superman's true enemy is the corruption that Lex simply represents. Someone else would rise to take over what Lex started. Superman wants to inspire people so that, together, we can all achieve the things Lex has but without sacrificing each other and what makes us people.

At least, that's how I've always looked at things.
Click to expand...
Great analysis!
 
C2_of_Omegon said:
Plus, the difference between what Batman is up against and what Superman is, are their archenemies. Joker and Luthor represent philosophical debates to what Batman and Superman truly represent. For Batman, his stance is that we have to act outside of social norms because the world isn't perfect but that doesn't mean that those norms are unimportant. Joker says that the fact that random injustice happens, means that there is no justice. That you can destroy innocence, means that there is no innocence. Hence, your life is a joke. So when Joker commits his crimes, he's constantly escalating because he's trying to push Batman in to compromising his codes, his morals and thus, proving Joker right. The fact that Batman acknowledges that if he kills, he turns into the same as the criminals he stops and punishes.

With Superman, Luthor represents the opposite of what Superman is. Superman and Lex represent the two measuring sticks society looks at in people. Superman presents the inner strength that society says we should have. Lex represents the outer strength that society says you could have. He's a powerful businessman and one of the most intelligent people on the planet. He's seen and done more than most ever will. But, this has come at the cost of Lex's soul. He is more monster than man. He will exploit anyone and anything to get what he wants, which is everything. Lex pushes others down to raise himself up, even though he doesn't actually need to. But he enjoys that. He enjoys toying with people. Lex represents the greedy, self-serving nature of people that Superman fights against. Even if Superman killed Lex, that wouldn't change anything because Superman's true enemy is the corruption that Lex simply represents. Someone else would rise to take over what Lex started. Superman wants to inspire people so that, together, we can all achieve the things Lex has but without sacrificing each other and what makes us people.

At least, that's how I've always looked at things.
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I wish I had that much literacy.
 
Tots_Real said:
I feel like the whole "Superman is the strongest hero who always wins" idea that shows like Death Battle have parroted for years have kinda done a disservice to Clark as a character. Like everyone sees him as a boring guy who never looses and struggles despite that being far from the case.
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While I don't particularly find his struggles engaging due to how awful and inconsistent his power is, the idea that he doesn't struggle is ******* dumb. No Superman could never understand the dedication Goku has to bettering himself as a warrior, but he still has a struggle, it's just about inspiring justice and good will rather than the comparatively selfish Goku.

Superman's boring reputation didn't fall outta the sky but to say he wins every fight and never struggles is a clear indicator they don't digest Superman material.
 
Man, even fixing Supes is a choice, since imagine that while trying to gain respect of DBZ fans, all you actually end up doing is give Supes respect after he stomps Goku to oblivion.

And frankly, if Supes wins, he will still be called no limits man.
 
Derpmaster9000 said:


Doesn't stop guys like this from claiming they do, anyway, and that DB will end up giving Goku a pity W. Guy is legit one step below Seth-tier in terms of obnoxiousness.
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I mean, I feel a random YouTuber's opinion doesn't matter. Anyone who watches DB and anyone who's been on VSBW should clearly know that both of their scalings do not align often.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I mean, I feel a random YouTuber's opinion doesn't matter. Anyone who watches DB and anyone who's been on VSBW should clearly know that both of their scalings do not align often.
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I never said his opinion did matter.(he's also hardly the only one with this sentiment, as his comment section and others prove) All I'm saying is that there's plenty of folks out there like this idiot, who think this sort of thing, despite all the evidence staring them in the face.
 
Derpmaster9000 said:
I never said his opinion did matter.(he's also hardly the only one with this sentiment, as his comment section and others prove) All I'm saying is that there's plenty of folks out there like this idiot, who think this sort of thing, despite all the evidence staring them in the face.
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Ic. I guess you can't change everyone's mind.
 
Derpmaster9000 said:
I never said his opinion did matter.(he's also hardly the only one with this sentiment, as his comment section and others prove) All I'm saying is that there's plenty of folks out there like this idiot, who think this sort of thing, despite all the evidence staring them in the face.
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I personally don't hold those beliefs,AT ALL. I was merely speculating the slim possibility of controversy bait. Simmer down.
 
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