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Death Battle Season Eight Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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Do y'all see.these images or no?
E9HmAsIXEAIFv_H

E9HmDCyXIAYLnGu
 
DaReaperMan said:
It's not fun at all, even bloodlusting Black Hat doesn't help with 682 around.
Click to expand...
Tots_Real said:
I just find the idea of the fight fun ok, I get it's a stomp but I don't care.
Click to expand...
I also would want 682 to just take control of the black hat organization to continue causing human suffering and cut to 2020 poorly explaining the hole fight and then show very distressed reasearches hearing what just happened.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Take control? Knowing 682, he'd just kill everyone in this little Black Hat organization and then go on to kill as much humans as possible before being recontained
Click to expand...
The Black Hat organization are multiversal faring arm dealer, 682 is no idiot, he'd see the use in having interdemensional travel and enouph weaponry to genocide a planet billions of times over
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Also I've seen people, ahem like me, throw around SCP 682 vs Godzilla as a potential matchup.
I mean it could be very gorey, but it's a brutal stomp for 682
Click to expand...
Aslan Vs 682, Both are higher demensional enties taking the form of animals and who's father is an extremely powerful god.
 
Tots_Real said:
The Black Hat organization are multiversal faring arm dealer, 682 is no idiot, he'd see the use in having interdemensional travel and enouph weaponry to genocide a planet billions of times over
Click to expand...
No it's not an idiot, but 682 has a hatred of most if not all life forms on a instinctual level and if the organization is classified as life it will destroy them on the spot. Also weaponry capable of destroying planets over a billion times kinda means jack to something which threatens the stability of the universe.
Not saying that Black Hat vs 682 isn't a bad matchup, but if Black Hat dies then 682's gonna kill the rest
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
No it's not an idiot, but 682 has a hatred of most if not all life forms on a instinctual level and if the organization is classified as life it will destroy them on the spot. Also weaponry capable of destroying planets over a billion times kinda means jack to something which threatens the stability of the universe.
Not saying that Black Hat vs 682 isn't a bad matchup, but if Black Hat dies then 682's gonna kill the rest
Click to expand...
Yes they are, black hat litterally travels between universe to sell his weapons making them multiverse faring. Also didn't 682 become bond over and becomes friends with the computure because of their shared hatred for humanity and had inticalual discussion about it with him. Also also the organization seems to mostly be run by robots so 682 wouldn't hate them inherently.
 
I never watched Ben 10. I never delved into Green Lantern comics. This makes me perfect for doing analysis on Ben vs Hal.

In hindsight I should have seen it coming. I do remember there was a trending YT video "Here is how Ben 10 beats Goku AND Superman". I just never watched it. Figured it was "I guess Ben has reality warping whatever". I had no idea it was about to get Goku vs Superman levels of bad.

And to be fair, in theory this should be good. We hate wankers, be it Kirby, Mario, Sonic, Doomguy, Saitama or whatever you don't like. Having a smug fanbase be smacked with truth should be satisfying...

...UNFORTUNATELY

They got smacked by DC.

Now, I have been called as someone who hates comics too much and should stop that. But it really wasn't bad at start. Comics always had good episodes since S1. Sure S4 kinda dropped the ball but S5 fights were fun. But around S6 I just came to realize how much comics get fights. And especially how DC themselves just keeps winning. I actually remember thinking back in S2 that DC loses a lot which certainly got monkey pawned lmao. This eventually led to the bad "DC never loses to non-Marvel" which has gotten so bad we want a guy vs universe sized mecha now. Yeesh.

Another problem related to that was comics getting bad fights. S6 was quite decent but S7 and tbh even S8 has meh picks. So even if it isn't Ben vs Hal's fault directly, it is partially reason why comics in DB are meh. There are so much of them, majority aren't interesting MUs and a lot of them dropped the ball way too much. Ben vs Hal included. On top of this, yes, DC is now basically a smug fanbase like Ben 10. But like... its so bad we purposely want a match where DC loses? Wtf thats terrible lmao.

Oh yeah, hows the actual episode of Ben vs Hal? Its good but a big mess.

I guess we'll do who wins part first. After all, whatever is the answer doesn't matter since can hard carry. And yes, Hal winning is not bad. Its bad in the sense of comics are a mess to find consistent shit. No, just because a lot of verses abuse texts despite them lacking showings doesn't means comics' "they did insane feat few times but also massively contradicting things and mixing dozens of writers lore but uhh just ignore that lol" is more valid. Its just another form of wank.

So how does Ben vs Hal go? Unless I'm massively wrong(which go ahead and say lol), what DB partially said is indeed true. While Ben has a lot of hax in different forms, a lot of them fail to match even lowballed Hal. And if you give a benefit of doubt to Ben, Hal also gets it, which means Hal gets even stronger. so like sure, that ghost might scare Hal... but not enough to guarantee a win. So its basically Alien X vs Hal.

This is where consistency sucks.

Alien X is decently strong consistently. Lowend Hal loses. Highend Hal wins tho. Yeah, its "dials" or whatever but DC and even Hal can get really stronk. I guess this is where DB hurts because they use "peaks". They have neglected outliers but if you don't consider comics a mess then Hal wins. And unbelievable, even if you were to lowball Hal's strength, he might still win. DC is fast. Stupid fast. Even if you were to deny Hal's strength, his speed should be more valid. Space travel is nuts. And Hal seems to have more stuff for speed. And hax, oh boy. Problem with stats is if comic character performs an insane feat but later struggles vs much weaker. This is a problem. But what if character has X ability but he only does it few times? Thats surprisingly not as big problem. Just because character does abilities less commonly doesn't mean that abilities couldn't be used unless there is reason given. And well, giving Hal a lot of hax from Pre-Crisis sure is sth. Convieniently, Alien X is presumed as a god-like being so we don't see his hax resistance. So now we have a scenario where Alien X who is stronger than Hal could still easily lose to weaker Hal because he is way faster and has hax we don't know Alien X can truly resist. So even weaker Hal can win.

So Hal winning isn't a problem persay. The episode also being flawed is.

So yeah, there were minor things. Honestly, once again you can see Swan writing weird things. He made BS say "yeah I get it Alien X is strong" in annoyed manner. Alien X also got dialogue during the fight eerily similar to Archie Sonic's one. "I CONTROL ALL OF REALITY". "I HAVE MASTERED FATE". Clearly trying to strawman those wanked characters into being smacked by truth. In theory even that is ok. The song is good if not great. But admittedly the lyrics are bit weird. Especially the parts for Ben. Because ofc they are. But minor stuff aside there are bigger ones.

I guess I'll do my personal problem. Versatile characters suck in DB due to budget. They used so few Aliens. This is problem elsewhere too. Mega Man BR had too little too. Star also suffered. Mario vs Sonic 2 suffered. Even Flash vs Sonic suffered. And its not like Hal was that good either. It sucks that versatile characters get to use only like 5 things in fights. Then there is the punchy Alien X. Which... I mean I guess he apparently did that during his vs Gladiator? But its still weird to treat even a minor reality warper as puncher.

And the big one. Hal beating Ben is a valid option. Not explaining it well is TERRIBLE. Ben actually has that Sotorobo effect thing that lets him kinda avoid time travel shenanigans. But its ok, have Hal overpower Alien X, that could be hype. That classic suggestion is also seeing Ben cycle his aliens like he did when holding a big bang. Sounds cool. Or they could just have Hal use time travel, an ability he might have LOST, against someone who has protection against.

Good lord.

Like, arguably that is really REALLY bad. That could be classified among worst representation in DB. And then they just skim over and say Hal is faster and blackbox it mostly. No, speed is important enough that they should have said to audience that Hal is faster than Ben catching the big bang.

So, the track is good, fight is mostly fine even if lame with bad variety, but it ends on bad representation of characters and they fail to properly explain why Ben loses. Now people go "they got the Sotorobo effect wrong!" and "they only used classic aliens!" and "they should've used Ben 10k if they composited Hal!". So if you shoot yourself into foot, its your own damn fault.

It sucks this happened to comics. I'm far more negative with comic matches now. But they have been massively disappointing for the most part ever since S6. And no, smacking wanking Ben 10 & Archie Sonic fanbases is not fun. Because now DC fans can be disgustingly smug. We just traded one for another. And yeah, even if most DC vs non-Marvel can be debatable, honestly none of them are flatout wrong. DC itself won DB. Absolutely no other series can reach its wins. DC is the King of DB. And with it DC is so bad a lot of fans just want a big L for DC vs non-Marvel. And thats also lame. Hal might beat Ben, but we certainly as an audience have lost.

The next time we get comic fight after Bats vs Tony, will we go "yeah thats cool" or will we go "lol another comic fight".

Death Battle being bad in early season led to a lot of problems. Ben vs Hal being bad also led to a lot of problems. And it honestly ******* sucks comics can never be considered a normal verse in DB.
 
Tots_Real said:
I think he is, I don't think they ever outright said it but he's an alien who's the last is seen as one of the strongest has a no killing rule and has sworn his life to justice. I guess it could just be a coincidence but I usually see it clumped into the superman parodies.
Click to expand...
You missed that one of Jiren’s most used techniques are Eye lasers. Though his are invisible

though it would probably be easier to see if Jiren had a cape


image0.jpg

I’ve also heard interesting Theories that Jiren is supposed to represent Buddha going back to the Journey to the West theming
 
TMaakkonen said:
I never watched Ben 10. I never delved into Green Lantern comics. This makes me perfect for doing analysis on Ben vs Hal.

In hindsight I should have seen it coming. I do remember there was a trending YT video "Here is how Ben 10 beats Goku AND Superman". I just never watched it. Figured it was "I guess Ben has reality warping whatever". I had no idea it was about to get Goku vs Superman levels of bad.

And to be fair, in theory this should be good. We hate wankers, be it Kirby, Mario, Sonic, Doomguy, Saitama or whatever you don't like. Having a smug fanbase be smacked with truth should be satisfying...

...UNFORTUNATELY

They got smacked by DC.

Now, I have been called as someone who hates comics too much and should stop that. But it really wasn't bad at start. Comics always had good episodes since S1. Sure S4 kinda dropped the ball but S5 fights were fun. But around S6 I just came to realize how much comics get fights. And especially how DC themselves just keeps winning. I actually remember thinking back in S2 that DC loses a lot which certainly got monkey pawned lmao. This eventually led to the bad "DC never loses to non-Marvel" which has gotten so bad we want a guy vs universe sized mecha now. Yeesh.

Another problem related to that was comics getting bad fights. S6 was quite decent but S7 and tbh even S8 has meh picks. So even if it isn't Ben vs Hal's fault directly, it is partially reason why comics in DB are meh. There are so much of them, majority aren't interesting MUs and a lot of them dropped the ball way too much. Ben vs Hal included. On top of this, yes, DC is now basically a smug fanbase like Ben 10. But like... its so bad we purposely want a match where DC loses? Wtf thats terrible lmao.

Oh yeah, hows the actual episode of Ben vs Hal? Its good but a big mess.

I guess we'll do who wins part first. After all, whatever is the answer doesn't matter since can hard carry. And yes, Hal winning is not bad. Its bad in the sense of comics are a mess to find consistent shit. No, just because a lot of verses abuse texts despite them lacking showings doesn't means comics' "they did insane feat few times but also massively contradicting things and mixing dozens of writers lore but uhh just ignore that lol" is more valid. Its just another form of wank.

So how does Ben vs Hal go? Unless I'm massively wrong(which go ahead and say lol), what DB partially said is indeed true. While Ben has a lot of hax in different forms, a lot of them fail to match even lowballed Hal. And if you give a benefit of doubt to Ben, Hal also gets it, which means Hal gets even stronger. so like sure, that ghost might scare Hal... but not enough to guarantee a win. So its basically Alien X vs Hal.

This is where consistency sucks.

Alien X is decently strong consistently. Lowend Hal loses. Highend Hal wins tho. Yeah, its "dials" or whatever but DC and even Hal can get really stronk. I guess this is where DB hurts because they use "peaks". They have neglected outliers but if you don't consider comics a mess then Hal wins. And unbelievable, even if you were to lowball Hal's strength, he might still win. DC is fast. Stupid fast. Even if you were to deny Hal's strength, his speed should be more valid. Space travel is nuts. And Hal seems to have more stuff for speed. And hax, oh boy. Problem with stats is if comic character performs an insane feat but later struggles vs much weaker. This is a problem. But what if character has X ability but he only does it few times? Thats surprisingly not as big problem. Just because character does abilities less commonly doesn't mean that abilities couldn't be used unless there is reason given. And well, giving Hal a lot of hax from Pre-Crisis sure is sth. Convieniently, Alien X is presumed as a god-like being so we don't see his hax resistance. So now we have a scenario where Alien X who is stronger than Hal could still easily lose to weaker Hal because he is way faster and has hax we don't know Alien X can truly resist. So even weaker Hal can win.

So Hal winning isn't a problem persay. The episode also being flawed is.

So yeah, there were minor things. Honestly, once again you can see Swan writing weird things. He made BS say "yeah I get it Alien X is strong" in annoyed manner. Alien X also got dialogue during the fight eerily similar to Archie Sonic's one. "I CONTROL ALL OF REALITY". "I HAVE MASTERED FATE". Clearly trying to strawman those wanked characters into being smacked by truth. In theory even that is ok. The song is good if not great. But admittedly the lyrics are bit weird. Especially the parts for Ben. Because ofc they are. But minor stuff aside there are bigger ones.

I guess I'll do my personal problem. Versatile characters suck in DB due to budget. They used so few Aliens. This is problem elsewhere too. Mega Man BR had too little too. Star also suffered. Mario vs Sonic 2 suffered. Even Flash vs Sonic suffered. And its not like Hal was that good either. It sucks that versatile characters get to use only like 5 things in fights. Then there is the punchy Alien X. Which... I mean I guess he apparently did that during his vs Gladiator? But its still weird to treat even a minor reality warper as puncher.

And the big one. Hal beating Ben is a valid option. Not explaining it well is TERRIBLE. Ben actually has that Sotorobo effect thing that lets him kinda avoid time travel shenanigans. But its ok, have Hal overpower Alien X, that could be hype. That classic suggestion is also seeing Ben cycle his aliens like he did when holding a big bang. Sounds cool. Or they could just have Hal use time travel, an ability he might have LOST, against someone who has protection against.

Good lord.

Like, arguably that is really REALLY bad. That could be classified among worst representation in DB. And then they just skim over and say Hal is faster and blackbox it mostly. No, speed is important enough that they should have said to audience that Hal is faster than Ben catching the big bang.

So, the track is good, fight is mostly fine even if lame with bad variety, but it ends on bad representation of characters and they fail to properly explain why Ben loses. Now people go "they got the Sotorobo effect wrong!" and "they only used classic aliens!" and "they should've used Ben 10k if they composited Hal!". So if you shoot yourself into foot, its your own damn fault.

It sucks this happened to comics. I'm far more negative with comic matches now. But they have been massively disappointing for the most part ever since S6. And no, smacking wanking Ben 10 & Archie Sonic fanbases is not fun. Because now DC fans can be disgustingly smug. We just traded one for another. And yeah, even if most DC vs non-Marvel can be debatable, honestly none of them are flatout wrong. DC itself won DB. Absolutely no other series can reach its wins. DC is the King of DB. And with it DC is so bad a lot of fans just want a big L for DC vs non-Marvel. And thats also lame. Hal might beat Ben, but we certainly as an audience have lost.

The next time we get comic fight after Bats vs Tony, will we go "yeah thats cool" or will we go "lol another comic fight".

Death Battle being bad in early season led to a lot of problems. Ben vs Hal being bad also led to a lot of problems. And it honestly ******* sucks comics can never be considered a normal verse in DB.
Click to expand...
I agree, but I should also note that one DC vs Non-Marvel fight is just kinda objectively wrong. Because they scaled She-Ra to that time Pre-Crisis Superman fought He-Man, like the geniuses they are. Even if you couldn't scale He-Man to Pre-Crisis Superman in power (Which is bullshit because you could, Superman can still pretty consistently take hits from magic on his level, he just takes slightly more damage from it), you could scale He-Man to Pre-Crisis Superman's speed. You know. That thing that's way higher than Wondy's Post-Crisis speed. When they said speed was Wondy's main wincon. And they didn't even address it.
 
Also, it's less comics as a whole that can't be normal anymore in Death Battle, and more so DC. Marvel's pretty much fine, mostly because it actually has losses against things other than it's rival company, and almost all of it's episodes are really good.

Anyways, DC certainly can be normal so long as Swan literally never touches any fight involving the series ever again. He should still be a writer, and he can probably still write Marvel vs DC episodes, because some of the episodes he's written that aren't Ben vs Hal or Archie vs Wally (Mega Man Battle Royale, Ghost Rider vs Lobo, Ganondorf vs Dracula, Cable vs Booster Gold, Obi-Wan vs Kakashi, Beerus vs Galaxia, Sabrewulf vs Jon Talbain, Hulk vs Broly, Heihachi vs Geese) are some of my favorites and are almost universally loved. But DC vs Non-Marvel is a niche he shouldn't touch, he's blatantly ****** up too many times with it.

DC should also, ideally, fight other series more often than it fights Marvel at this point. The fact that Batman has four episodes and none of them are against anything but Marvel is genuinely ******* atrocious. All the Marvel vs DC episodes worth doing at this point have pretty much already been done with a few exceptions that they should spread out through several seasons. DC isn't some untouchable god, it's win streak is mostly due to lack of opportunity to end it, and just casually having DC vs Non-Marvel episodes without it being a big deal was something Season 7 actually did kinda well (3 of our 8 DC vs Non-Marvel episodes are from this season alone). It's just DC vs Non-Marvel is a niche not many people have thought of until recently, so the matchups in Season 7 were kinda shit.

Once DC actually loses, DC can probably go back to being somewhat normal in Death Battle.

Simon vs Kyle, 682 vs Doomsday, Sinestro/Thawne vs Terumi, Shazam vs Pegasus Saiya, Raidou vs John Constantine, Geo Stellar vs Blue Beetle, there's no shortage of good DC vs Non-Marvel matchups. And people will probably think of even more when a DC loss isn't the main draw. Hell, once DC starts actually losing, Reverse-Flash vs Goku Black might actually be even remotely acceptable. Zamasu vs Goetia will still be better, but you know.
 
The_Smashor said:
Anyways, DC certainly can be normal so long as Swan literally never touches any fight involving the series ever again. He should still be a writer, and he can probably still write Marvel vs DC episodes, because some of the episodes he's written that aren't Ben vs Hal or Archie vs Wally (Mega Man Battle Royale, Ghost Rider vs Lobo, Ganondorf vs Dracula, Cable vs Booster Gold, Obi-Wan vs Kakashi, Beerus vs Galaxia, Sabrewulf vs Jon Talbain, Hulk vs Broly, Heihachi vs Geese) are some of my favorites and are almost universally loved. But DC vs Non-Marvel is a niche he shouldn't touch, he's blatantly ****** up too many times with it.
Click to expand...
gT37k7s7DgAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png
 
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