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Yes, they think season 1 Death Battle rules are unique
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Death Battle Season Eight Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
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They’re allergic to common sense, yes
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Season 1? Oh god no
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They'd probably use 0.5x/2x multipliers accordingly, not just a reference to weakness spreads, but to the power needed to break even.
For example: the 4 Kahunas vs Guzzlord in the SM Anime. Hala had Fightinium Z (2x vs Guzzlord), but Nanu had Darkinium Z (0.5x vs Guzzlord). Do I interpret this as Hala doing 1/4 of the work because 0.5/1/2/1 is the same as 1-all, or do I interpret it as him doing 1/8th of the work because 0.5/4 is the same as 1/8th?
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Really....
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I kinda respect Smash Bracket's logic, but a lot of characters are far weaker if direct feats are needed. Just because scaling can be bad and wrong, doesn't mean it always is.
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Was sifting through old DBs, why was this episode hated again?
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It was very soon after OW was released and Scout has even today support to say its generally wrong. But top off my head its still in TOP 5 WORST DBs which is insane.
I think they hated how Scout barely moved, wrong showing of that Drink ability too.
Reading YT comments we see hate for rocket feat being weakened.
I think they hated how Scout barely moved, wrong showing of that Drink ability too.
Reading YT comments we see hate for rocket feat being weakened.
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Underestimated Scout I guess?
It was pretty ok for me tbh.
Though as pointed out above it's really weird that character who constantly moves in canon and gameplay, mostly stands.
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IDK why, never really cared about both TF2 and Overwatch
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Aside from the whole Overwatch vs TF2 debacle, Scout barely ran at all throughout the fight, barely got any of his non-stock arsenal, arsenal wasn't represented well (Bonk is super-dodging not invincibility, the bat taunt is a one hit kill, etc.), Overwatch hadn't even been out half a year at that point (there's striking while the iron's hot, and there's striking for iron that hasn't been heated yet), saying Scout doesn't scale to the rockets because "point of impact is never shown" despite the fact the rockets perspective is shown to land on right on him, saying Scout is only 17mph when his Meet the Team video has him nearly outrunning a train. It's a bunch of stuff.
Also, they could've got Scout's actual voice actor but didn't because the episode was too far in production. Not something where anyone's at fault, just thought I'd mention.
It was an open and shut case for Scout (even today, it is).
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I didnt check all of these, but Wiki did have a few outdated dislikes rating.
Here are current sub 80% likes episodes, the convenient Top 15 Worst:
MvS2 79
Sasuke vs Hiei 79
Chief vs Doom 79
Bats Spidey 79
Pika vs Blanka 78
Kirby vs Buu 78
Zelda vs Peach 74
Gaara vs Toph 74
Thor WW 72
Poke vs Digi 71
Tracer vs Scout 69
Lara vs Drake 64
GvS1 61
GvS2 58
Ben vs Hal 56
It kinda does feel like some eps are due to salt, but all of these had some issues to be fair.
Here are current sub 80% likes episodes, the convenient Top 15 Worst:
MvS2 79
Sasuke vs Hiei 79
Chief vs Doom 79
Bats Spidey 79
Pika vs Blanka 78
Kirby vs Buu 78
Zelda vs Peach 74
Gaara vs Toph 74
Thor WW 72
Poke vs Digi 71
Tracer vs Scout 69
Lara vs Drake 64
GvS1 61
GvS2 58
Ben vs Hal 56
It kinda does feel like some eps are due to salt, but all of these had some issues to be fair.
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If I'm going to be the contrarian in the room, may I point out that BONK was only supposed to last 17 seconds, but in the animation, it lasted for... what, a minute, at least? Saying he was completely jipped is a false dichotomy IMO.
This matchup came less down to what they were given, and more to the application of what they were given. Oh and the whole "taunt is an instant kill because Tracer only has 150HP"? No, that's just stat fallacy.
This matchup came less down to what they were given, and more to the application of what they were given. Oh and the whole "taunt is an instant kill because Tracer only has 150HP"? No, that's just stat fallacy.
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Even if considering taunt as insta kill, circumstances under which he would use this taunt properly against tracer is nearly impossible.
DragonLord
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Considering Scout on the Wiki is only Peak Human Speed (Lol), while Tracer has her at Subsonic with Hypersonic movements, seems like on the site it’s a huge speedblitz for now
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Exactly.
I've always had the sense that people think Base Scout is faster than Base Tracer because of that whole "length measure drag race" video that was made (something that coincidentally cropped up before the DBa in question). What people seem habitually unwilling to acknowledge is that Tracer wouldn't just exhaust all of the Blinks in one go, because (needless to say) that's not the totality of a battle between the two. So you can scoff and say "hurr durr Scout no run?" as much as you want, when it wouldn't even be worth it for him.
Hence...
^
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There are type effectiveness charts and scaling chains to discuss.
But yeah, regarding that Fox McCloud vs Sonic Smash Smash Bracket,
Well when everything fails:
Speaking of 9-B to 9-A Undertale... I wonder how Sans vs Sally (BOFURI) goes...
The Sasuke vs Hiei one, Gaara vs Toph, and arguably Chief vs Doom are the ones that actually deserves hate.
I would say Bomberman vs Dig Dug does not get sufficient hate enough.
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the fight itself sucked and felt like it was shilling OW
plus like what this guy said
regardless on who would win it whatever but point is the fight was not handled well at all
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Ben explained that Torrian (the mokap guy) was heavily injured during the production of Tracer vs Scout and therefore he has to resort to portraying a tank-ier brawl-ier fight. Which kind of defeats the point of having Tracer vs Scout.
Oh as I am having insomnia I am introducing some "night"-mare matchup.
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should have delayed it
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Same here, except do they have stock episodes to fill the gap?
Happy Father's Day so two matchups: One being "normal" family fathers, the other being super-screwed super-fathers.
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Yeah, the fact that Yang vs Tifa escaped low dislikes shows YT isnt best proof of how liked ep is. Ofc general audience and dedicated DB audience differs.
If we had to make real Top 15 worst, based not only on results, but also research, intro analysis and character presentation, I wonder how it would look like.
If we had to make real Top 15 worst, based not only on results, but also research, intro analysis and character presentation, I wonder how it would look like.
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Y’all I just realized something and correct me if I’m wrong, but if we use DB stats for marvel characters and again only of of DB stats wouldn’t Wolverine beat Raiden if they did the match again with modern research?
They considered street tiers to be light speed and wolverine claws can harm herald tier characters. I know the episode was made in old DB but that just something I thought of lol.
They considered street tiers to be light speed and wolverine claws can harm herald tier characters. I know the episode was made in old DB but that just something I thought of lol.
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probably so
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DC is the biggest winner of DBs and Marvel is biggest loser. The ying and yang.
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what is the record of both series on the show and the record between them personally
DragonLord
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Oh right, I only showed the +9 & -5 relatively. The real stats are.
Marvel 16 Wins, 21 losses & 1 draw. Technically Marvel has 2nd most wins but so many losses.
DC has 20 wins & 11 losses.
Then its the complicated. Do we compare using newer stats to see which eps are contradicted by themselves? Or do I give personal opinion which prolly heavily differentiates from this site lol
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And if we excluded all Marvel vs DC fights entirely? What would Marvel's W/L ratio look like then? As would DC's?
Because knowing the amount that Marvel and DC have butted heads, I feel as though these stats are almost taken out of context.
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DC would have 0 loses while Marvel would have loses more than wins. I wouldn't be surprised if it would go like I wrote.
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Im making a list but yeah DC has not lost to non-Marvel. Thats a meme at this point.
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And Marvel suffers the most Ls in Death Battle
despite being the only verse (so far) to beat DC counterparts is another meme.
The meme and the irony will be even stronger with Galactus likely defeating Unicron. This is like, a verse with one of the strongest characters in all fiction, suffers the most Ls in a Death Battle.
Now, people should be really hyped upon John Constantine vs Raidou Kuzunoha, at the same time being very puzzled.
Likely John will be defeated by Raidou.
But SMT (Persona included) will likely have an L from Noel Vermillion vs Aigis.
But Blazblue has has one L from Guilty Gear by Sol Badguy vs Ragna the Bloodedge.
So... Is Guilty Gear the strongest verse?
But SMT (Persona included) will likely have an L from Noel Vermillion vs Aigis.
But Blazblue has has one L from Guilty Gear by Sol Badguy vs Ragna the Bloodedge.
So... Is Guilty Gear the strongest verse?
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The DC bias isn't surprising (I think I saw such a meme about it earlier in this thread, about how Marvel has been the only verse to ever have W's VS DC).
As for Marvel vs Non-DC...
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Marvel would still be -4 with non DC ouch.
Marvel vs DC record is prolly closer again after Marvel beat DC 3 times.
Marvel vs DC record is prolly closer again after Marvel beat DC 3 times.
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Is it just me or is it funny that people really want characters voiced by Yuri Lowenthal to fight green lanterns?
Marth vs Alan Scott when?
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Eff it, let’s do both. How DB stats in newer eps change eps and how I view em. I don’t know comics best, so expect weirdness.
Rogue vs WW
DB Stats: They had WW beat Thor lol
Me: Probably same reason. Rogue has trouble with Thor powered characters, right?
Thor vs Raiden
DB Stats: Its even bigger stomp now lmao
Me: Take a guess
Batman vs Spider-Man
DB Stats: Literally showed in Barb vs Gwen that Spidey out stats
Me: Yup
Goku vs Superman
DB Stats: Swan will make Supes win, but surprisingly I think for now Goku outstats?
Me: At the time, probably right. Unsure if GT is really consistent Uni or so, haven’t checked it.
Batman vs Captain America
DB Stats: I think Cap wins? Honestly Caps stats haven’t been used clearly.
Me: If the stats gap isn’t big enough, Bats can win. Dunno how big it is.
Deadpool vs Deathstroke
DB Stats: Honestly maybe DP? Esp. with wacky items.
Me: Technically DS can’t kill DP, but DP is so easy to dismember it leads to weirdest enigma. DS can’t truly easily kill DP, but DP can come back slow. I guess too slowly so point for Slade.
Iron Man vs Lex Luthor
DB Stats: For now Uni Lex lol ggs but Iron Man might be next.
Me: Yeah, I know personality should affect fights, but to guarantee that big gap? Or, well not sure where Lex is actually. Above Planet but like… I dunno really anymore.
Beast vs Goliath
DB Stats: Pretty sure Beast has tussled with Spidey right? Lightspeed would win but DB isnt most that mutant happy.
Me: No idea, current disinterest in comics makes me hope Goliath but prolly not.
Darth Vader vs Dr. Doom
DB Stats: “I’LL MAKE YOU WISH YOU WERE FIGHTING PALPATINE”
Me: Force might affect Doom (does Force count as TK?) but like, its Doo-oom
Goku vs Superman 2
DB Stats: Read GvS1
Me: At the time prolly right, but its bad and it was outdated in 2 months jfc lmao
Wolverine vs Raiden
DB Stats: Wolvies too fest
Me: Hope Raiden wins, but its prolly Wolvie
Green Arrow vs Hawkeye
DB Stats: I think stats match well?
Me: Uhh sure?
Flash vs Quicksilver:
DB Stats: Yes
Me: Yes
Joker vs Sweet Tooth
DB Stats: I think stat wise Joker somehow could pull a win?
Me: ST should prolly win. Jokermobile is never brought up good feats and even if ST loses on foot, Big mecha is Big mecha.
Hulk vs Doomsday
DB Stats: They haven’t memed DC that much yet so oddly Hulk prolly outstats
Me: DD wins seems logical on ability wise, but WTF are their stats. Technically Hulk prolly isn’t that OP so Doomsday.
Deadpool vs Pinkie Pie
DB Stats: So far DP would outstat but uhh
Me: If canon DP met a magic Pony who invited him to a party, would he join it? This might be inconclusive for two 4th wall breakers wanting to piss off.
Venom vs Bane
DB Stats: Yes
Me: Does Bane even have 1% chance of winning?
18 vs Marvel
DB Stats: Final form rules might make Carol win. Tho S6 stats are low enough that 18 in show now would beat it but oh well
Me: Carol can’t choose to turn to Binary so (hopefully) 18 wins seems likelier. Her big fight vs Vegeta she didn’t use Ki at all.
Shredder vs Silver Samurai
DB Stats: SS lol Spidey scaling
Me: I wish Shredder wins, but yeah, its prolly likelier SS cuts Shredder faster.
Thor vs WW
DB Stats: Weird one, WW blitzes but is AP stomps. That sword might still make her win.
Me: Wondie prolly
Terry vs Miguel
DB Stats: They buffed Miguel to Mach 2000+, bye Terry
Me: Terry prolly isn’t consistently on that rock lift level so Miguel.
BP vs Bats
DB Stats: BP prolly gets Spidey speeds gg
Me: I heard the claim that BP isn’t consistently that hard to kill, so I am curious. Normally BP.
Raven vs Twilight Sparkle
DB Stats: Kinda same still but Raven has easy potential.
Me: Bye pony
Strange vs Fate
DB Stats: Kinda same still
Me: Makes sense
Carnage vs Lucy
DB Stats: Carnage is guaranteed to have better new stats like speed…
Me: …But Lucy can also be faster. I dunno, Lucy I guess? Even if relativistic she has range. Also, suicide moves winning are ok now.
Nightwing vs DD
DB Stats: DD hangs with Spidey does he? Then him.
Me: Uhh I guess DD just to have a DC L lol I dunno
Ultron vs Sigma
DB Stats: Oof
Me: Does Sigma really have NOTHING?
Thanos vs Darkseid
DB Stats: They were power crept by Hulk lmao DS wins, does he scale to Wally?
Me: Even if Thanos figures shit out, his personality is likelier to mess up.
Aquaman vs Namor:
DB Stats: AM prolly gets better scaling
Me: Yes
BW vs WM
DB Stats: OW wouldn’t get buffed
Me: Yup
Marvel vs Shazam
DB Stats: Bye Carol
Me: Indeed
Ben 10 vs Green Lanterm
DB Stats: Time hasnt ruined this ep
Me: TIME HUH THANKS FOR THE
ok but for real I dunno if Hal is consistent enough but you can make arguments, I guess.
GR vs Lobo
DB Stats: Lobo might get buffed but still gets haxed.
Me: Heard GR high ends aren’t consistent, but dunno. Lobo seems cool enough.
DP vs Mask
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: Technically maybe that op DP items win but otherwise Mask.
Miles vs Static
DB Stats: Wait, couldn’t Miles blitz?
Me: Shrug
Canary vs Sindel
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: That decibel feat just wins
Genos vs WM
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: Genos should be better have way better CQC but he loses
Cable vs BG
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: If you say so
She-Ra vs WW
DB Stats: Why wasn’t WW Uni level via scaling lol
Me: Are comics canon to cartoon SheRa? That’s her origin canon no? I dunno
Wally vs Archie Sonic
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: This is actually bizarre realistically, but I suppose its ok at high ends.
WS vs RH
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: ‘nods’
Venom vs Crona
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: Thank god they did this now for comics L haha
Batgirl vs Spider-Gwen
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: zzz
Hulk vs Broly
DB Stats: Somehow Hulk is faster noe, but Broly still too stronk
Me: Based DBZ win streak
You can say Broly is weaker, but real Hulk is MUCH weaker. Revival time is still unknown from vaporization.
Lex vs Doom
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: “FOOTDIVE”
IF vs Po
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: As long as lightspeed doesn’t mean IF punches every microsecond, Po should (hopefully) win.
So, for using newer stats, record would have been:
Marvel 22 wins 15 losses 1 tie
DC 18 wins 13 losses
Also, M vs DC record is 11-11, changed one is 13-9
DC gets nerfed and Marvel, if I understand lightspeed scaling right, actually wins. I think DB could give em that.
So, Marvel is done dirty feeding Street level characters away wrongly lol
Not counting my thoughts, honestly quite a lot of uncertainty.
Rogue vs WW
DB Stats: They had WW beat Thor lol
Me: Probably same reason. Rogue has trouble with Thor powered characters, right?
Thor vs Raiden
DB Stats: Its even bigger stomp now lmao
Me: Take a guess
Batman vs Spider-Man
DB Stats: Literally showed in Barb vs Gwen that Spidey out stats
Me: Yup
Goku vs Superman
DB Stats: Swan will make Supes win, but surprisingly I think for now Goku outstats?
Me: At the time, probably right. Unsure if GT is really consistent Uni or so, haven’t checked it.
Batman vs Captain America
DB Stats: I think Cap wins? Honestly Caps stats haven’t been used clearly.
Me: If the stats gap isn’t big enough, Bats can win. Dunno how big it is.
Deadpool vs Deathstroke
DB Stats: Honestly maybe DP? Esp. with wacky items.
Me: Technically DS can’t kill DP, but DP is so easy to dismember it leads to weirdest enigma. DS can’t truly easily kill DP, but DP can come back slow. I guess too slowly so point for Slade.
Iron Man vs Lex Luthor
DB Stats: For now Uni Lex lol ggs but Iron Man might be next.
Me: Yeah, I know personality should affect fights, but to guarantee that big gap? Or, well not sure where Lex is actually. Above Planet but like… I dunno really anymore.
Beast vs Goliath
DB Stats: Pretty sure Beast has tussled with Spidey right? Lightspeed would win but DB isnt most that mutant happy.
Me: No idea, current disinterest in comics makes me hope Goliath but prolly not.
Darth Vader vs Dr. Doom
DB Stats: “I’LL MAKE YOU WISH YOU WERE FIGHTING PALPATINE”
Me: Force might affect Doom (does Force count as TK?) but like, its Doo-oom
Goku vs Superman 2
DB Stats: Read GvS1
Me: At the time prolly right, but its bad and it was outdated in 2 months jfc lmao
Wolverine vs Raiden
DB Stats: Wolvies too fest
Me: Hope Raiden wins, but its prolly Wolvie
Green Arrow vs Hawkeye
DB Stats: I think stats match well?
Me: Uhh sure?
Flash vs Quicksilver:
DB Stats: Yes
Me: Yes
Joker vs Sweet Tooth
DB Stats: I think stat wise Joker somehow could pull a win?
Me: ST should prolly win. Jokermobile is never brought up good feats and even if ST loses on foot, Big mecha is Big mecha.
Hulk vs Doomsday
DB Stats: They haven’t memed DC that much yet so oddly Hulk prolly outstats
Me: DD wins seems logical on ability wise, but WTF are their stats. Technically Hulk prolly isn’t that OP so Doomsday.
Deadpool vs Pinkie Pie
DB Stats: So far DP would outstat but uhh
Me: If canon DP met a magic Pony who invited him to a party, would he join it? This might be inconclusive for two 4th wall breakers wanting to piss off.
Venom vs Bane
DB Stats: Yes
Me: Does Bane even have 1% chance of winning?
18 vs Marvel
DB Stats: Final form rules might make Carol win. Tho S6 stats are low enough that 18 in show now would beat it but oh well
Me: Carol can’t choose to turn to Binary so (hopefully) 18 wins seems likelier. Her big fight vs Vegeta she didn’t use Ki at all.
Shredder vs Silver Samurai
DB Stats: SS lol Spidey scaling
Me: I wish Shredder wins, but yeah, its prolly likelier SS cuts Shredder faster.
Thor vs WW
DB Stats: Weird one, WW blitzes but is AP stomps. That sword might still make her win.
Me: Wondie prolly
Terry vs Miguel
DB Stats: They buffed Miguel to Mach 2000+, bye Terry
Me: Terry prolly isn’t consistently on that rock lift level so Miguel.
BP vs Bats
DB Stats: BP prolly gets Spidey speeds gg
Me: I heard the claim that BP isn’t consistently that hard to kill, so I am curious. Normally BP.
Raven vs Twilight Sparkle
DB Stats: Kinda same still but Raven has easy potential.
Me: Bye pony
Strange vs Fate
DB Stats: Kinda same still
Me: Makes sense
Carnage vs Lucy
DB Stats: Carnage is guaranteed to have better new stats like speed…
Me: …But Lucy can also be faster. I dunno, Lucy I guess? Even if relativistic she has range. Also, suicide moves winning are ok now.
Nightwing vs DD
DB Stats: DD hangs with Spidey does he? Then him.
Me: Uhh I guess DD just to have a DC L lol I dunno
Ultron vs Sigma
DB Stats: Oof
Me: Does Sigma really have NOTHING?
Thanos vs Darkseid
DB Stats: They were power crept by Hulk lmao DS wins, does he scale to Wally?
Me: Even if Thanos figures shit out, his personality is likelier to mess up.
Aquaman vs Namor:
DB Stats: AM prolly gets better scaling
Me: Yes
BW vs WM
DB Stats: OW wouldn’t get buffed
Me: Yup
Marvel vs Shazam
DB Stats: Bye Carol
Me: Indeed
Ben 10 vs Green Lanterm
DB Stats: Time hasnt ruined this ep
Me: TIME HUH THANKS FOR THE
ok but for real I dunno if Hal is consistent enough but you can make arguments, I guess.
GR vs Lobo
DB Stats: Lobo might get buffed but still gets haxed.
Me: Heard GR high ends aren’t consistent, but dunno. Lobo seems cool enough.
DP vs Mask
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: Technically maybe that op DP items win but otherwise Mask.
Miles vs Static
DB Stats: Wait, couldn’t Miles blitz?
Me: Shrug
Canary vs Sindel
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: That decibel feat just wins
Genos vs WM
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: Genos should be better have way better CQC but he loses
Cable vs BG
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: If you say so
She-Ra vs WW
DB Stats: Why wasn’t WW Uni level via scaling lol
Me: Are comics canon to cartoon SheRa? That’s her origin canon no? I dunno
Wally vs Archie Sonic
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: This is actually bizarre realistically, but I suppose its ok at high ends.
WS vs RH
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: ‘nods’
Venom vs Crona
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: Thank god they did this now for comics L haha
Batgirl vs Spider-Gwen
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: zzz
Hulk vs Broly
DB Stats: Somehow Hulk is faster noe, but Broly still too stronk
Me: Based DBZ win streak
You can say Broly is weaker, but real Hulk is MUCH weaker. Revival time is still unknown from vaporization.
Lex vs Doom
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: “FOOTDIVE”
IF vs Po
DB Stats: Not outdated
Me: As long as lightspeed doesn’t mean IF punches every microsecond, Po should (hopefully) win.
So, for using newer stats, record would have been:
Marvel 22 wins 15 losses 1 tie
DC 18 wins 13 losses
Also, M vs DC record is 11-11, changed one is 13-9
DC gets nerfed and Marvel, if I understand lightspeed scaling right, actually wins. I think DB could give em that.
So, Marvel is done dirty feeding Street level characters away wrongly lol
Not counting my thoughts, honestly quite a lot of uncertainty.
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