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Death Battle Season Eight Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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Loh67867 said:
Three spots left
VSB_does_DB.png
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I’ll claim my spot. Pikachu vs Jibanyan, I imagine 2-D sprites for this, but all three would probably work.
 
Makotofanboy said:
This also means that characters that appeared a 3rd time can appear again so Wonder Women, Deadpool, Shadow, and Leo can appear for a 4th time again. Keep that in mind.
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If I'm not mistaken, the 2018 crowd like Sora's MUs are up for renewal. All Might is coming close, too.

For the record, I'm using the gap between Thor/She-Ra vs Wonder Woman as a point of reference.
 
Loh67867 said:
And here we have it, the final version
Thanks to all of you for participating in my dumb lil project, it was definetly fun making it
VSB_does_DB.png
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Are we actually going to make any of these actual animations? Or was this just a passing thing?

I'm no animator, but if we are going to make episodes out of these, I would probably write analysis / premise for Fiora vs Emil (partly because I came up with the idea. No bias lol).
 
Joycap said:
Are we actually going to make any of these actual animations? Or was this just a passing thing?

I'm no animator, but if we are going to make episodes out of these, I would probably write analysis / premise for Fiora vs Emil (partly because I came up with the idea. No bias lol).
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I'm now could be motivated to make a scripts for every fight on list.

This probably can be a good try of mine (though can't be sure it would be fast).
 
Loh67867 said:
Will Ness use some of his smash bros moves in your script of Raz vs Ness or will it be just pure Earthbound moves?
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To be honest I already imagining the fight through "Stars of the universe" and script of battle is pretty much ready on paper.

Ness would use his canonical moveset (including even teleport) but in very different ways. One of the thing with Raz vs Ness is it's unknown for us would they accept Uni and fate hax ness or lol no because "pray". So exclusively for this fight I would likely divide the script on 2 versions.

Version number 1: Ness uni and fate hax is accepted
Version 2: Ness uni and fate hax is not accepted (which makes this fight pretty close actually)

Also bonus note: Despite of Psychonauts 2 still doesn't come out some abilities can be pretty much already used in this fight (aka "time slow" and "mental hook").

Psychonauts 2 is going to come out 25-th August so probably I'll make the third version of fight including stuff from psychonauts 2.
 
Oleggator said:
I'm now could be motivated to make a scripts for every fight on list.

This probably can be a good try of mine (though can't be sure it would be fast).
Click to expand...

Gives me enough time to run my mouth off about Mechon Fiora vs Emil Ratatosk, then, and what could be done. It'll make things easy later (partly because I don't see much hype for Symphonia in VS for some reason, and DotNW is straight up deprived on VS info).

Relations:
(See previous post)
  • The half-dead in possession of world-creating gods (Mayneth / Ratotosk)
  • Said God is also related to main/contemporary in some way (Mayneth has a history with Zanza, as does Shulk with Fiora / Marta is in possession of Ratotosk's core for most of the game, hence her feelings towards Emil).
  • Dead parents by way of a villain that the closest associates are spent pursuing (Mechon / Lloyd OR Richter, depending on your frame of reference) only to find out they're either morally grey or not actually evil / misunderstood.
  • Hosts (Fiora/Emil) somewhat lose access to said gods towards the back leg of their respective adventures (Mayneth killed by Zanza / Ratatosk lying dormant within Emil until after endgame bouts with Richter).
  • Both represent a special need (Both are dual personality, Fiora questions the Homs/Mechon identity, Emil is Bipolar).
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Premise:

Location: Agniritha (Mechonis), Residential District 2.

[XC1 Party arrives in Agniritha as usual. Terminals in the Central Tower pick up data on an unknown entity in the 2nd Residential District, dawning a blue robe and scarf]

Shulk: "Blue robe? That doesn't sound like anyone I know..."

Reyn: "Me neither. And I don't suppose you've had any Visions as of late?"

Shulk: "No, not since Egil set Apocrypha off."

[Shulk then looks up at Fiora in the Central Tower doorway, noticing her clutching the core on her chest]

Shulk: "Fiora? What is it?"

Fiora: "More low sounds... another Machina?"

Shulk: "Can't be Vanea, she just left. And Egil is on the other side of the city."

Fiora: "Wait, it's something... or someone different. Mayneth seems to have taken an interest, too."

[Fiora turns to Shulk with a pensive look on her face]

Fiora: "It seems to be coming from the 2nd Residential District. Can I catch up with you later?"

Reyn: "I mean, we're going via that area anyway. I don't see why you need to-"

[The core containing Mayneth's presence begins to glow]

Reyn: "...Oh. I mean it's Mayneth, so..."

Shulk: "Are you sure?"

Mayneth: "Yes. I am not sure if this presence is something you are equipped to handle."

Fiora: "Besides, you have Terminals to activate. We'll be back to fight Egil before you know it!"

Shulk: "Alright. Be careful, though."

[Meanwhile, at the 2nd Residential District, Emil Ratatosk is present with Tenebrae. Arms crossed, back to a building wall].

Ratatosk: "What a joke. What are these rust buckets made out of, tin foil?"

Tenebrae: "They seem to have been a result of the civilisation that built this city. Their state is unsurprising, given the time."

Ratatosk: "No different to Martelian dogshit, if you ask me..."

[Fiora walks into the scene]

Fiora: "...And you are?"

Ratatosk: "I should be asking you the same question."

[Ratatosk then takes interest in Mayneth's core]

Ratatosk: "A Centurion's Core? No... it's even more powerful..."

[Emil Ratatosk then lunges at Fiora]

Tenebrae: "Wait, that's not...!"

[Fiora draws both blades just quickly enough to block the overhead]

Fiora: "I guess this isn't the first time I've saw blood in the eyes!"

FIGHT! (Or equivalent here)

Incorporation(s):

Ain Soph Aur being used to kill Mayneth's actual form is the first thing that comes to mind, being a callback to when Zanza did the same to Mayneth in the Mechonis Core. A version of this fight where the 'timid' Emil asking Fiora to finish him off comes to mind (likely with Final Cross), making reference to Ratatosk's attempts to take him over for good near the end of DotNW.

Why (likely) 2D?

I said I was mostly indifferent which animation style this came out in (and for the most part, I still am), and I know it might be surprising that I'm not going to say 3D for this given both characters origins (and the fact that my mind was in 3D mode for making the premise). But after looking back through the cutscenes of DotNW, there's something about Emil's sword drawing animation that makes me think "Sasuke vs Hiei called, they want a word". Is this just me?

EmilDraw.gif
DBSGiffed.gif


(I could find a better example, but I'm not scouring 8 hours worth of cutscenes over minutia).

As for Fiora being in 2D? Well, I understand that Project X Zone is in sprite, so it wouldn't be hard to grab rigs from there.

Note: I also happened to find... whatever this is, meaning that alternating art styles aren't impossible.

Who wins?

IMHO this matchup is a little complicated, and while I think that the victor is more than likely Fiora due to the Bionis/Mechonis Universe scaling; a combination of misinterpreted Symphonia speed tiers and some hax from Ratatosk means that this isn't nearly as one-sided as one might think.

Firstly: Power. While (again) it's easy to call it a day at "Fiora has a greater power range (5-B - 2-C) due to Mayneth", there are some interesting anecdotes towards the end of DotNW that indicate to me that Ratatosk's peak goes beyond the 5-B (planetary) scaling on the VS wiki. If I'm not mistaken (at least, in the context of DotNW), the Great Kharlan Tree is often compared to a planet in it's ability to destroy and/or create life, it's death being the inciting incident of the war in DotNW, and being the impetus for Lloyd's supposed planetary peak (I am not familiar with the OG Symphonia, so bear with me. My only source for it is the VS wiki pages).

This is important to note, as Richter was actually able to box Lloyd to a standstill in the later half of DotNW, all without the use of his Sacred Stone form that gave him his fire amp form, that form being what allowed him to take on the demonic realm (as far as I'm aware, a parallel to the earth in question). This form would put Richter at likely multi-planetary, and given the relations between Richter and Ratatosk, they both directly scale to each other (or at least, a version with all 8 Centurions scales to Rhicter's true form). See, the nature of Ratatosk seems to imply casual life-wiper abilities when he commanded the Centurions to exterminate all of humanity in order to restore the Mana balance in the flashback near the end of Chapter 7, and if Ratatosk is commanding both the human and demon realms, than Occam's Razor states that this more than likely dual or multi-planetary in power tiers. The possession of the awakened Centurions also gives rise to the possibility of a version of this fight that Emil actually wins, when considering their ability to separate Ratatosk from Emil's body at the end of the game (which I interpret as a literal '2nd life' kind of thing, and the standard Emil actually scales to Ratatosk at the very end of the game), one form of the hax I eluded to earlier.

All of this would put Emil's power range anywhere up to 4-C (small star level) due to the distinctions between creation and destruction energy. Not quite Mayneth's 2-C peak, right? Apart from looking at the circumstances that got Mayneth's god form killed, those ranges above large planet (5-A) are actually a lot harder to justify (as funny as it is that Fiora without Mayneth was able to trade hands with True Form Zanza, whereas Mayneth died to an attack from his form that had only just reawakened on the Mechonis Core).





"However, I had no idea that I would defeat her so... easily" - Zanza, explaining his intent to do battle with Mayneth.

Keep in mind, if Zanza and Mayneth truly do scale to each other because of the Bionis and Mechonis fighting, and them being the arbiters of those respective worlds, then where is Zanza's true form actually accounted for outside of Universe busting when considering the stalemate would imply that a version of Mayneth does actually scale?

Next: Speed. Fiora being Light speed is a very easy thing to come by, given not just internal scaling to the likes of Mayneth (and to a certain extent Zanza), but also the nature of Machina technology. An interesting anecdote bought up by Paradigm and Erico in their Xenoblade videos was the notion of a Machina navigator having access to light speed technology, as revealed by a Eryth Sea heart-to-heart between Fiora and Riki. It's not unreasonable to assume that some form of this technology was implemented into Fiora when making her a Face Unit.

Now, I know what you're thinking: "Symphonia verse is only Lightning Level! Emil can't touch that! This is a complete blowout!"

Um... did we just completely forget that Raine Sage Photon is a thing? A Light construct? Might want to get your writers to double check that...

Finally: Hax. As well as the life-split mentioned earlier being but a fraction of Ratatosk's ability to destroy and create life through Mana, it turns out he also has the ability to govern the laws that allow him to do so, being what allowed him to create a new seal for the Ginungagop (however the hell you spell that word, it's the weirdest thing to say). How applicable to combat this is, I'm not sure (the '1000s of years' quote comes to mind), but the fact that he has this ability should be looked into. And of course, I won't leave Fiora out to dry here, as what she has through arts (phys/ether drain, Zero Gravity para etc.) gives her just as much to work with. Anything marked as possible with gems, though... you should already know my stance on that.

As for Gems... again, I don't like the idea of Gems because it's abstraction is handed to the player, not any of the characters whom feats we're pulling from cutscenes (as I said in my personal takes), meaning that the mechanic can be entirely ignored by the player, and the character(s) story carries on as usual. Even if we are to take the mechanic absolutely literally, Shulk would only have access to up to three AA-inflicted/weapon debuffs at any given moment, as A) Bind Attack / Bleed Attack / Slow etc. cannot be equipped to body parts, of which B) he would not have access to body part gem slots because we are assuming that he's running default outfit (I.E: run all story cutscenes with no modifications). Minor statistical discrepancies coming from better late-game armour sets (that which we have no way of knowing how much they would affect his Universal feats, if at all) is exactly that - irrelevant statistical arbitration, that which is looked down upon during debates like this.
Click to expand...

FioraDBWin.png
 
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