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Death Battle Season Eight Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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The_Smashor said:
It's
  1. Dig Dug vs Bomberman (Wall vs at least Galaxy)
  2. Yang vs Tifa (Large Building vs at least Multi Solar System)
  3. Guts vs Nightmare (Multi-City Block vs At least Multi Continental)
Click to expand...

If I had to say anything to these top 2, it's that A) Season 1 results literally don't count because of the discrepancy between their style now and style then, and B) I think I know where the MSS calc for Tifa comes from, but I haven't played FFVII so I'll leave it at 'I have a very long and complicated history with verse scaling in general, and wanking casts to god tiers'.
 
Joycap said:
If I had to say anything to these top 2, it's that A) Season 1 results literally don't count because of the discrepancy between their style now and style then, and B) I think I know where the MSS calc for Tifa comes from, but I haven't played FFVII so I'll leave it at 'I have a very long and complicated history with verse scaling in general, and wanking casts to god tiers'.
Click to expand...
To be fair, at a low ball Tifa’s limit breaks are beyond anything Yang had done at that point, the only response was “well that’s not her base power” which is like saying Goku isn’t strong because Super Saiyan isn’t his base power
 
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DragonLord said:
To be fair, at a low ball Tifa’s limit breaks are beyond anything Yang had done at that point, the only response was “well that’s not her base power” which is like saying Goku isn’t strong because Siper Saiyan isn’t his base power
Click to expand...
lol siper sayan

Idk tho, I'm not sure why people are interpreting what was said as 'Why are you saying this makes her weaker and not stronger'. Listen back on Wiz's wording again, and realise that he's saying "this is a peak she had to build to", not the other way around.

Again, I'm just going off their logic. Haven't played FFVII, so I'm here to look ridiculous and to be proven wrong.
 
Joycap said:
lol siper sayan

Idk tho, I'm not sure why people are interpreting what was said as 'Why are you saying this makes her weaker and not stronger'. Listen back on Wiz's wording again, and realise that he's saying "this is a peak she had to build to", not the other way around.

Again, I'm just going off their logic. Haven't played FFVII, so I'm here to look ridiculous and to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...
Man....where do I even start....

Also, for someone who hasn't played FF7, you sure apparently know enough to call certain scaling wank for the cast...
 
DaReaperMan said:
Super Sonic is just under the speed of light!
Click to expand...
It’s amazing, they show on Screen that Omega, the robot made by the smartest man on the planet and specially designed to deal with fast hedgehogs goes “at this rate the speed of light will be surpassed”, already confirming That Sonic is at the very least “just under” in just base form

it’s also amazing how if they just checked all the cutscenes in Sonic Colors DS they’d see a FTL feat in Sonic catching the Cyan Wisp
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Man....where do I even start....

Also, for someone who hasn't played FF7, you sure apparently know enough to call certain scaling wank for the cast...
Click to expand...

OK, let me phrase that slightly differently. Scaling Cloud to Sephiroth is fine because he's the one that explicitly took credit for Sephiroth's defeat in a scene that we pull feats from. But what I meant by 'wanking a verse' is to say that I take exception to the idea that because one was able to do it, that all are able to do it (or in this case, 'participation', the key term used on Tifa's VS page).

Again, I concede that I haven't played FFVII. But I have played other JRPGs, which warrants my scepticism in this scaling idea - specifically Xenoblade. I've been in discussions with people that will put the entire cast at 2-C+ just because Shulk was able to recreate the universe in question, and the fact that you can have a party without Shulk to defeat Zanza in a gameplay context (not that I'm aversed to Shulk having a 2-C(ish) peak or anything).

If you want to talk be through Tifa's scaling from top to bottom, that's your prerogative. Just forgive me for being a little suspicious.
 
Joycap said:
OK, let me phrase that slightly differently. Scaling Cloud to Sephiroth is fine because he's the one that explicitly took credit for Sephiroth's defeat in a scene that we pull feats from. But what I meant by 'wanking a verse' is to say that I take exception to the idea that because one was able to do it, that all are able to do it (or in this case, 'participation', the key term used on Tifa's VS page).
Click to expand...
Err, what? You realize literally ALL the characters fought and damaged Safer Sephiroth right? Cloud was merely the guy who took out Sephiroth AFTER he was knocked out of his Safer form. Tifa did as much in the Safer fight as Cloud and literally every other character. So I am not understanding your point here. Your skepticism is misguided here. And even the lowest FF7 feats and scaling far outrank anything Yang has done. So even without Safer Sephiroth scaling, Tifa still stomps hard.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
So I am not understanding your point here. Your skepticism is misguided here. And even the lowest FF7 feats and scaling far outrank anything Yang has done. So even without Safer Sephiroth scaling, Tifa still stomps hard.
Click to expand...

That's as maybe, but you're missing my point here slightly. I'm not arguing whether or not Yang still wins or not (as much as I can see where JRPG scaling goes in general, I wouldn't hold your breath on a rematch until Salem gets cut down), I'm just saying that I don't believe in this whole 'peak exists and call it a day' or participation in an event as the be-all-and-end-all for scaling. Not when I've been auditing things like Xenoblade scaling, and peaks for characters that aren't Shulk/Fiora aren't nearly as high, characters that justify their peak off of cutscenes (2-C Shulk with the True Monado, and Fiora off of scaling to Mayneth. Others are planet level because Dickson can planet bust on limited evidence, apparently)
 
Joycap said:
That's as maybe, but you're missing my point here slightly. I'm not arguing whether or not Yang still wins or not (as much as I can see where JRPG scaling goes in general, I wouldn't hold your breath on a rematch until Salem gets cut down), I'm just saying that I don't believe in this whole 'peak exists and call it a day' or participation in an event as the be-all-and-end-all for scaling. Not when I've been auditing things like Xenoblade scaling, and peaks for characters that aren't Shulk/Fiora aren't nearly as high, characters that justify their peak off of cutscenes (2-C Shulk with the True Monado, and Fiora off of scaling to Mayneth. Others are planet level because Dickson can planet bust on limited evidence, apparently)
Click to expand...

Except issues like what happens with Xenoblade =/= said issues exist with Final Fantasy. Especially when the point you had against the scaling is factually incorrect. And there is literally no reason for why Tifa wouldn't scale considering Tifa is not far behind Cloud in power if not flat out comparable. This is not Xenoblade, it's FF7 which has a different story and sequence of events and scales differently compared to Xenoblade. And you should not be making such claims unless you actually know that your comparison actually fits. Also, Dickson and co scale from an actual calc/on screen feat and not just some statement.
 
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Dragonmasterxyz said:
Except issues like what happens with Xenoblade =/= said issues exist with Final Fantasy. Especially when the point you had against the scaling is factually incorrect. This is not Xenoblade, it's FF7 which has a different story and sequence of events and scales differently compared to Xenoblade. And you should not be making such claims unless you actually know that your comparison actually fits. Also, Dickson and co scale from an actual calc and not just some statement.
Click to expand...

And I accept that. Scaling has always been context sensitive, and this is no different. It's just that having one peak credited to one character is the one commonality I've noticed among nearly all of the verses that I have looked into, to say nothing of the people new to power scaling that will turn around and say "saying they're all as powerful ruins storytelling concepts", which is why we hold these verses to scrutiny specifically because this notion does hold water, for better or worse.
 
Joycap said:
And I accept that. Scaling has always been context sensitive, and this is no different. It's just that having one peak credited to one character is the one commonality I've noticed among nearly all of the verses that I have looked into
Click to expand...
And this is an issue because? This is something that exists for many other verses, even outside JRPGs.
Joycap said:
to say nothing of the people new to power scaling that will turn around and say "saying they're all as powerful ruins storytelling concepts", which is why we hold these verses to scrutiny specifically because this notion does hold water, for better or worse.
Click to expand...
Except you have to prove this. Nothing of this applies to FF7 and to assume it does because it's a JRPG is fallacious. Tifa scaling contradicts nothing in the plot. So once again, you should not jump the gun immediately here. Especially when it is a game you have not played, yet made such a claim of wank when you have nothing to support yourself. It only makes you look bad. Speaking from experience myself.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
And this is an issue because? This is something that exists for many other verses, even outside JRPGs.

Except you have to prove this. Nothing of this applies to FF7 and to assume it does because it's a JRPG is fallacious. Tifa scaling contradicts nothing in the plot. So once again, you should not jump the gun immediately here. Especially when it is a game you have not played, yet made such a claim of wank when you have nothing to support yourself. It only makes you look bad. Speaking from experience myself.
Click to expand...

I'm literally agreeing with you, hence the previous post you are now quoting.
 
In the end, I mean, even if you don’t want to scale Tifa to Sephiroth, Tifa has all the Summons which do crazy attacks, which DB didn’t include because... I’m not sure?, one of the rules of the show is that the character is at there best (Like Mega Man having every weapon even if he doesn’t usually do that) yet Tifa got only basic Materia
 
I mean, everyone who knows that fight is wrong pretty much have come to the same conclusion (I mean, it was overall one big advertisement for RWBY). But that fight is like what? 5, 6, 7 years old? I forget. It's really old news. Unfortunately, that fight has kinda effected their credibility for some people to this day. Even recently (Weiss vs Mitsuru recently), I didn't trust DB with any RWBY MUs due to the shitshow that was Yang vs Tifa. While I do believe that this is like ancient news, I still can see why people harp on it and Yang vs Tifa will likely forever be a stain on DBs record because of the things they did in that episode.
 
I'll be honest. Link's only shot in his fight with Cloud is if they buy Uni Zelda. And even then, they'd likely give Cloud Dissidia AND Cloud is still faster.

Also, I am almost positive that they'll likely give Cloud all the Master Materia.

It's crazy when you realize that Cloud and Doom are likely gonna be the only Preview characters to actually win their MUs.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I'll be honest. Link's only shot in his fight with Cloud is if they buy Uni Zelda. And even then, they'd likely give Cloud Dissidia AND Cloud is still faster.

Also, I am almost positive that they'll likely give Cloud all the Master Materia.

It's crazy when you realize that Cloud and Doom are likely gonna be the only Preview characters to actually win their MUs.
Click to expand...
I’m not too sure on if Cloud would have Dissidia, but honestly Death Battles Composite Rules are always in flux

like, there really isn’t anything that makes using the Sonic Archie Comics “Wrong” when you allow the Super Mario Super Show in the same match other then you feel it would make it a stomp

which apparently not using those comics is why Knuckles lost to DK.... Wiz seems to really not be interested in the Prime Sonic stuff huh
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I'll be honest. Link's only shot in his fight with Cloud is if they buy Uni Zelda. And even then, they'd likely give Cloud Dissidia AND Cloud is still faster.

Also, I am almost positive that they'll likely give Cloud all the Master Materia.

It's crazy when you realize that Cloud and Doom are likely gonna be the only Preview characters to actually win their MUs.
Click to expand...
a complete opposite compare to last season
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I mean, everyone who knows that fight is wrong pretty much have come to the same conclusion (I mean, it was overall one big advertisement for RWBY). But that fight is like what? 5, 6, 7 years old? I forget. It's really old news. Unfortunately, that fight has kinda effected their credibility for some people to this day. Even recently (Weiss vs Mitsuru recently), I didn't trust DB with any RWBY MUs due to the shitshow that was Yang vs Tifa. While I do believe that this is like ancient news, I still can see why people harp on it and Yang vs Tifa will likely forever be a stain on DBs record because of the things they did in that episode.
Click to expand...

Imagine for a moment if the Yang vs Tifa fight we got on DB ended up as a 1MM or DBX. How much more or less would you care, out of curiosity?
 
DragonLord said:
I’m not too sure on if Cloud would have Dissidia, but honestly Death Battles Composite Rules are always in flux

like, there really isn’t anything that makes using the Sonic Archie Comics “Wrong” when you allow the Super Mario Super Show in the same match other then you feel it would make it a stomp

which apparently not using those comics is why Knuckles lost to DK.... Wiz seems to really not be interested in the Prime Sonic stuff huh
Click to expand...
I'd say that they'd only give Cloud Dissidia if needed, i.e they make Link Uni+.
 
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