DC Comics: The Light of Creation/The Great Darkness/The Presence (Vertigo) - Clean-up

[Elizio33]

This is the edit I'm going to make on the DC Cosmology Blog.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems fine to me at least.

 

[Elizio33]

I'm done editing. Let me know what you think of my edits on the DC Cosmology blog, on the four last sections of the Crisis Cosmology.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I agreeth.

 

[Elizio33]

I have added the scans from Green Lantern/New Gods: Godhead, The Flash Vol 5 11, JSA, and Blackest Night Vol 1 7 in the blog.

The first is a second proof that The Source came out of the Primordial Darkness. The second is a mention of God sending the Primordial Darkness into the Shadowlands after bringing the light. The third is from an older JSA story mentioning God/Creator as the one bringing light. The fourth is another proofs of the two other scans.

 

[Elizio33]

Now I know this should be saved for another thread, but with the new tiering system, i think the Divine Continuum/Totality of Creation should be upgraded to Low 1-A for representing the hypothetical model of all Space and Time constituting the sum total of Existence, and for containing a realm embedding all mathematical concepts (Realm of Math featured in the new Flash story).

The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation should be upgraded to 1-A for completely transcending the Divine Continuum and, by extension, all space and time.

The Great Darkness should be 1-A for preceding and encompassing The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation, and could simply extinguish them if it wanted to.

The Creator should be 1-A for being the underlying force behind The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation, and for sending the Primordial Darkness into the Shadowlands after bringing the light.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I have added the scans from Green Lantern/New Gods: Godhead, The Flash Vol 5 11, JSA, and Blackest Night Vol 1 7 in the blog.

The first is a second proof that The Source came out of the Primordial Darkness. The second is a mention of God sending the Primordial Darkness into the Shadowlands after bringing the light. The third is from an older JSA story mentioning God/Creator as the one bringing light. The fourth is another proofs of the two other scans.

We could also use the Swamp Thing scan about the God that exists beyond opposites.

 

[Elizio33]

We could also use the Swamp Thing scan about the God that exists beyond opposites.

Yes. Can you share the scan in question here so I can add it to the blog?

 

[Antvasima]

Now I know this should be saved for another thread, but with the new tiering system, i think the Divine Continuum/Totality of Creation should be upgraded to Low 1-A for representing the hypothetical model of all Space and Time constituting the sum total of Existence, and for containing a realm embedding all mathematical concepts (Realm of Math featured in the new Flash story).

The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation should be upgraded to 1-A for completely transcending the Divine Continuum and, by extension, all space and time.

The Great Darkness should be 1-A for preceding and encompassing The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation, and could simply extinguish them if it wanted to.

The Creator should be 1-A for being the underlying force behind The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation, and for sending the Primordial Darkness into the Shadowlands after bringing the light.

@Ultima_Reality @Executor_N0 @Everything12 @Agnaa @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @PrinceofPein @Planck69 @Ovy7 @Rakih_Elyan @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Kerwin0831 @RatherClueless

Does this seem reasonable to you?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yes. Can you share the scan in question here so I can add it to the blog?

Here

 

[Ultima_Reality]

@Ultima_Reality

Does this seem reasonable to you?

I'll look over this later.

 

[Elizio33]

Here

Thank you. I have linked your link in the blog

 

[Elizio33]

The edits needed are done. @Antvasima you can close The Presence, Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, DC Comics Cosmology

 

[Swanyee9t76]

In the end, they represent the same thing.

That’s very untrue. It’s more likely that the Presence is non-dual then the opposite.

No, he’s been shown at the top several times.

He isn’t bound to the Sphere so this entire point is moot. Also, his aspect fought the Great Darkness, not a random “aspect” since the story literally said the Darkness launched an attack. So you’re making your own headcanon.

It actually makes me laugh when u said these.

- It never said they are same, Being same nature ≠ Same existence. For an example, Pralaya represent as non-dual unmanifested void and Overvoid represent same. So, they are same entity? There's no specific mentioned that " Overvoid is outside of Source's plans ( who wanted to expand the greater omniverse ) " like Presence said in Lucifer volume 1? It doesn't make sense

- The Presence never represent as " Non-dual " or something similar. Give me specific source that The Presence is non-dual from 21 centuries comics. Being God or mentioned as Creator really doesn't make Presence to tier 0. ( I'm not downgrading Presence, I'm fine with Presence = Overvoid = Source but not the light being same entity with three of them. Since Snyder directly stated that Source is Presence, Using as " Purest form " or " Ture form " would be headcanon )

- He literally get ass beat by depowered Mandrakk ( Rox Ogama ) during the final crisis and the dc book directly said that " Presence is nearly omnipotent "

- Oh dear, there's no specific proof mentioned that " Light " is Presence's aspect.

In essence, they are. Unlike the Ghost Zone, the proximity, location, and usage of the Void is pretty much the same with the Overvoid. That can’t be denied.

The Light was never claimed to be the Presence, nor the full entity. However, you can nitpick it not being called the Presence despite the fact “God” in many of these stories refers to the Presence. This story was no different.

The Sphere certainly holds Heaven which he predated and created. With an aspect of him living in the Primum Mobile, but the truer being exists much beyond the Map.

So you have no problem randomly making some baseless assumption that the Light matched an “aspect” of the Great Darkness yet you claim this wasn’t an aspect of God given the Presence in Heaven is nothing more than an aspect and the #75 of Swamp Thing makes this distinction better known.

Literally not Idk who said that, Did the void from actually have opposite part ( If u really count Overvoid as Light )?, Falling into depth of Overvoid will get erase, It's directly said in " Final Crisis "

So, does Overvoid/Source. Overvoid and Source both already referred as " God " in several comics like in Kirby's comic runs and Morrison's interviews and even in his older comics. There's no specific mentioned that " Overvoid/Source is Light " people rlly claim this cuz they put the scan from Multiversity Guidebook during the JLI issue 4 and there's a statement which said " Light dispatched monitors to overwatch the machine " In Morrison comics, Overvoid never dispatched them but just creating them and never command to overwatch the machine/jar. Cuz Overvoid doesn't seems to be interest in flaw since he already sealed it. Furthermore, Overvoid literally contains Supervoids which exist beyond the influence of Light and Multiversity guidebook directly stated that Overvoid is Nothing and Everything at same time. I think this is enough for Overvoi/Source > Light

I think I'm fine with this

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

- It never said they are same, Being same nature ≠ Same existence. For an example, Pralaya represent as non-dual unmanifested void and Overvoid represent same. So, they are same entity? There's no specific mentioned that " Overvoid is outside of Source's plans ( who wanted to expand the greater omniverse ) " like Presence said in Lucifer volume 1? It doesn't make sense

The Source in Lucifer isn’t even treated as the same as Yahweh, that’s not mentioning the split. Though, the very nature of the Presence is non-dual given that to be mutable it needs to take form and aspect within Creation. Plus, the Presence as a “term” to describe an entity wasn’t described until later to which Swamp Thing hasn’t address a mention of the Presence, but we know that the Voice later(also before) is revealed as an aspect of God, the same Voice that commanded the Word and the Light. The same Voice that Spectre adheres to.

- The Presence never represent as " Non-dual " or something similar. Give me specific source that The Presence is non-dual from 21 centuries comics. Being God or mentioned as Creator really doesn't make Presence to tier 0. ( I'm not downgrading Presence, I'm fine with Presence = Overvoid = Source but not the light being same entity with three of them. Since Snyder directly stated that Source is Presence, Using as " Purest form " or " Ture form " would be headcanon )

It’s Presence > Light/Overvoid >= Source being argued here. The Presence as in the full fountainhead itself never appears because it isn’t intractable within anything we’ve seen so far.

- He literally get ass beat by depowered Mandrakk ( Rox Ogama ) during the final crisis and the dc book directly said that " Presence is nearly omnipotent "

That was Darkseid.

- Oh dear, there's no specific proof mentioned that " Light " is Presence's aspect.

There’s no mention that the Presence is the Light, either. Much more logical to assume that the Presence created the Light as depicted by many stories.

Literally not Idk who said that, Did the void from actually have opposite part ( If u really count Overvoid as Light )?, Falling into depth of Overvoid will get erase, It's directly said in " Final Crisis "

What?

So, does Overvoid/Source. Overvoid and Source both already referred as " God " in several comics like in Kirby's comic runs and Morrison's interviews and even in his older comics. There's no specific mentioned that " Overvoid/Source is Light " people rlly claim this cuz they put the scan from Multiversity Guidebook during the JLI issue 4 and there's a statement which said " Light dispatched monitors to overwatch the machine " In Morrison comics, Overvoid never dispatched them but just creating them and never command to overwatch the machine/jar. Cuz Overvoid doesn't seems to be interest in flaw since he already sealed it. Furthermore, Overvoid literally contains Supervoids which exist beyond the influence of Light and Multiversity guidebook directly stated that Overvoid is Nothing and Everything at same time. I think this is enough for Overvoi/Source > Light

Doesn’t uphold with current canon or what has been accepted.

 

[Elizio33]

Okay, since the main purpose of this thread has been accepted and added, this thread would be closed and another one would be created to review the tiers of the DC Comics Cosmology based on the new tiering system of Ultima_Reality.

Thanks to everyone who helped!

 

[Antvasima]

The edits needed are done. @Antvasima you can close The Presence, Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, DC Comics Cosmology

I have handled it.

Thanks to everyone who helped!

Yes. Agreed.