DC Comics - 8-C Batman

[KLOL506]

Came back from retirement from this and I just wanna point out that Deathstroke's Rebirth feat is absolutely up there and I'd recommend getting some non explosive feats. This Doc has a few we could look at (Rush busting a concrete wall would be good) and the street tiers either directly scale or backscale from them. Secondly we need to consider Deathstroke, his DCYou Series for instance has him far weaker then his normal level (I believe it's implied he's at haklf strength) and his 2011 run has him decked out in Nth Metal armour that evens the odds with Hawkman (this includes the Submarine feat)

The doc still needs to sort out Post-Crisis and Post-Flashpoint feats, I remember Dark-Carioca nailing some baller feats for Post-Crisis Post-Mutation Croc ramming through a steel wall wielding 8-C and stuff.

 

[Hellbeast]

I'd also like to mention something I've planned for a while. We should split Batman into Pre-Superheavy and Post-Superheavy keys. Bruce is stated by Alfred to have become faster and stronger after being exposed to Dionesium in Endgame and this would explain why Bruce is able to fight more evenly with Deathstroke during Rebirth compared to his prior stuff. I'd also like to note iirc John has a 0.24 Ton dura feat and Bruce and co would have to scale to that thanks to the reasoning on the profile (implying Babs is > John's physicals)

The doc still needs to sort out Post-Crisis and Post-Flashpoint feats, I remember Dark-Carioca nailing some baller feats for Post-Crisis Post-Mutation Croc ramming through a steel wall wielding 8-C and stuff.

I've mostly already split them into different eras, just lost interest and have compiled a few already. I think we need to check out some of the ones for Post-Flashpoint such as Deathstroke cratering Harley or Bruce getting smashed through a Brick wall by Lincoln

 

[KLOL506]

I'd also like to mention something I've planned for a while. We should split Batman into Pre-Superheavy and Post-Superheavy keys. Bruce is stated by Alfred to have become faster and stronger after being exposed to Dionesium in Endgame and this would explain why Bruce is able to fight more evenly with Deathstroke during Rebirth compared to his prior stuff. I'd also like to note iirc John has a 0.24 Ton dura feat and Bruce and co would have to scale to that thanks to the reasoning on the profile (implying Babs is > John's physicals)

People have also suggested splitting Post-Crisis Batman to "Pre-Bane Back Break era" and "Post-Bane Back Break" in a similar fashion.

I've mostly already split them into different eras, just lost interest and have compiled a few already. I think we need to check out some of the ones for Post-Flashpoint such as Deathstroke cratering Harley or Bruce getting smashed through a Brick wall by Lincoln

Nobody ever got to the Lex Luthor crater feat either.

 

[KLOL506]

And his 2011 run has him decked out in Nth Metal armour that evens the odds with Hawkman (this includes the Submarine feat)

Prolly a good feat for Nth Metal and anyone who can damage it then. Might be particularly useful for people running Nth Metal gear as standard equipment.

 

[Hellbeast]

People have also suggested splitting Post-Crisis Batman to "Pre-Bane Back Break era" and "Post-Bane Back Break" in a similar fashion.

I noticed, I think this one has much more in favour tho

Nobody ever got to the Lex Luthor crater feat either.

Eh true, I think I saw a preliminary for 9-A. I feel that and a few striking feats should be calculated

Prolly a good feat for Nth Metal and anyone who can damage it then. Might be particularly useful for people running Nth Metal gear as standard equipment.

Yep, I think Hawkman has some 7-C shit too so it could be an upgrade tbh. I do know Legacy's scaling implies Nth Metal Slade is Class M

 

[KLOL506]

Yep, I think Hawkman has some 7-C shit too so it could be an upgrade tbh. I do know Legacy's scaling implies Nth Metal Slade is Class M

Nth Metal amps default physicals too?

 

[Hellbeast]

Nth Metal amps default physicals too?

To my memory it does, I believe Hawkman mentions strength as one of the primary areas where amplification is noted

 

[Armorchompy]

Man-Bat has no notable feats. Or anti-feats for that matter, he just has a bunch of casual 9-B stuff.

Nth Metal amps physicals permanently with time and exposure (as well as giving you regen and some other stuff), just wearing it once won't do it. Also, it's 4-B in durability though at least in Hawkman's case it doesn't offer full protection from attacks coming your way.

I'd also like to mention something I've planned for a while. We should split Batman into Pre-Superheavy and Post-Superheavy keys. Bruce is stated by Alfred to have become faster and stronger after being exposed to Dionesium in Endgame and this would explain why Bruce is able to fight more evenly with Deathstroke during Rebirth compared to his prior stuff. I'd also like to note iirc John has a 0.24 Ton dura feat and Bruce and co would have to scale to that thanks to the reasoning on the profile (implying Babs is > John's physicals)

I'm a little doubtful on this being consistent. From my experience Batman doesn't become any stronger relative to his cast, Man-Bat is still way stronger than him (Man-Bat gets an amp of his own but that happens before it too and he's still weaker than KC upon that happening), Killer Croc is still way stronger than him, and so on.

I also recall seeing one n52 antifeats where a small explosion nearly killed Bats, I should go dig for it. EDIT: Nope, he no-sells it and has a bunch of casual 9-B feats in the same issue.

 

[Hellbeast]

Nth Metal amps physicals permanently with time and exposure (as well as giving you regen and some other stuff), just wearing it once won't do it. Also, it's 4-B in durability though at least in Hawkman's case it doesn't offer full protection from attacks coming your way.

He didn't just wear it once tho, he had the armor throughout his original New 52 series and seems to have only lost it afterwards. It doesn't help he fights alongside Hawkman and seems to generally be a tad stronger then normal

I'm a little doubtful on this being consistent. From my experience Batman doesn't become any stronger relative to his cast, Man-Bat is still way stronger than him (Man-Bat gets an amp of his own but that happens before it too and he's still weaker than KC upon that happening), Killer Croc is still way stronger than him, and so on.

I mean it's certainly possible, Joker gained Regeneration and implies he gained greater strength from the Dionesium and that's without acknowledging other characters like Vandal pulling from the same element for their capabilities. We also see this at least has an effect on how he fights Deathstroke, compare their fight in Slade's DCYou series (where he's impeded by his physical alterations) to Their Dark Designs and even Deathstroke's own series. Clearly the intent there is theres some parity. Man-Bat is certainly a fair point but Croc not so much. As Dark Carioca has mentioned, Croc has been played off as way stronger then the New 52 implied since Rebirth started and it' not really an argument against what I'm saying

 

[Transcending]

Their Dark

Iirc Deathstroke purposefully lost in Dark Designs but Deathstroke #34/35 and Batman: Universe #1 has some valid fights where Batman matched him.

 

[Hellbeast]

I can concede that but ignoring that there's still a few showings of relativity that just weren't there in the New 52

 

[Armorchompy]

He didn't just wear it once tho, he had the armor throughout his original New 52 series and seems to have only lost it afterwards. It doesn't help he fights alongside Hawkman and seems to generally be a tad stronger then normal

Yeah but like, do they mention he would get stronger? Because it's not too important of a thing to Nth Metal lore, it's just a thing on the side, writers very well might not have known, I think it's just like, a one-off mention in the 2016 run or something.

 

[Transcending]

Deathstroke vs Batman fights:

1: They were pretty much even before the fight was interrupted

2: A clear stalemate

3: Batman had the advantage before he was distracted and Deathstroke sucker punched

Sources given in the albums.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody list all of our currently accepted 9-A and 8-C calculations for Batman-level post-Flashpoint DC Comics characters please?

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah but like, do they mention he would get stronger? Because it's not too important of a thing to Nth Metal lore, it's just a thing on the side, writers very well might not have known, I think it's just like, a one-off mention in the 2016 run or something.

I’m pretty sure Hawkman claims this outright to Slade in the 2011 run but I could be wrong (have to reread)
If that’s indicative of Slade’s base then we have even more stuff since Slade has dope feats

 

[Chariot190]

I tried calcing it with pixel scaling and I got a weirdly low result of 9-B?

Lex Luthor survives a 1-A character!

vsbattles.fandom.com

Wall level makes sense the way you scaled it, the issue is, you scaled off a character a good distance in front of the impact, which gets you a way smaller volume that it actually is.

Also i would've used soil pulv tbh, it's not like we see any soil chunks or specks outside the hole.

 

[Transcending]

I’m pretty sure Hawkman claims this outright to Slade in the 2011 run

You are right

 

[Transcending]

Wall level makes sense the way you scaled it, the issue is, you scaled off a character a good distance in front of the impact, which gets you a way smaller volume that it actually is.

Also i would've used soil pulv tbh, it's not like we see any soil chunks or specks outside the hole.

Yeah that's what I thought too. Any better idea?

Actually there were a few chunks

EDIT: Yeah seriously ignore the calc, as per it the width of the crater would only be a metre lmao, we need a better way.

 

[Chariot190]

A few tiny chunks at the edges is aight imo, point is those few chunks wouldn't even make up 1% of the alleged volume. Idk, tho, maybe scale the grass instead?
Or try and angsize?

Rough calc of that GA hole feat, 9-B+ to 9-A, give or take, it's still rough.

 

[CowHeadGod]

I can concede that but ignoring that there's still a few showings of relativity that just weren't there in the New 52

Dunno about that, Deathstroke (2014) #5 has shown some pretty clear scaling between the two although Deathstroke wasn't as good in combat as normally as he had two eyes instead of one but he also had a younger, physically better body as well due to healing bs

• Harley Quinn surviving being dragged by Power Girl enough KE to spilt a cloud;
• Captain Boomerang survivng an explosion that destroyed a yard;
• Rustam surviving this massive boom although Dr Polaris most likely reversed a bulk of the energy (so he probs survived like 10% of energy output);

There are still these uncalc'd feats I listed, I'll start looking for more feats later on

 

[Chariot190]

Going through that doc, a lot of that shit is 9-A easy, between the values of 0.005 and 0.02 tons. Might calc a few (Especially the craters, a good chunk of those would use compressive strength or pulv, though a few blast feats would be good).

Fyi that croc feat is def an outlier, it blew through the road, from the sewer. That's a huge distance of tens of meters.

 

[KLOL506]

Wall level makes sense the way you scaled it, the issue is, you scaled off a character a good distance in front of the impact, which gets you a way smaller volume that it actually is.

Also i would've used soil pulv tbh, it's not like we see any soil chunks or specks outside the hole.

Nah, can't be soil purely, rock chunks are inside there beside Lex Luthor.

 

[Transcending]

Bruce getting smashed through a Brick wall by Lincoln

Finished it. Wall level as expected

Lincoln throws Batman through two brick walls

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Chariot190]

Then probably a mix or some sort of rocky soil value.

Anyway, there seems to be a few 8-C feats or high 9-A feats in the doc as well, but they're lacking some scans for context. Like this, anyone know what issue this is? Distance Tim was from the blast matters.

 

[Transcending]

anyone know what issue this is?

Superman/Batman #53

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah that's what I thought too. Any better idea?

Actually there were a few chunks

EDIT: Yeah seriously ignore the calc, as per it the width of the crater would only be a metre lmao, we need a better way.

Yeah I'm assuming using Mercy was the worst way to get the true dimensions of the crater, the depth looked absolutely gargantuan compared to Mercy alone, even deeper at some places. Best left for a rainy day.

 

[Transcending]

Yeah I'm assuming using Mercy was the worst way to get the true dimensions of the crater, the depth looked absolutely gargantuan compared to Mercy alone, even deeper at some places. Best left for a rainy day.

Yup...

Nah, can't be soil purely, rock chunks are inside there beside Lex Luthor.

What value can we use then?

 

[KLOL506]

Yup...


What value can we use then?

I was considering 50/50 rock but then Mercy being too far away from the crater and the depth alone appearing wacky even when she's in it? I'm beginning to fear this might not be calculable to begin with.

 

[KLOL506]

Fyi that croc feat is def an outlier, it blew through the road, from the sewer. That's a huge distance of tens of meters.

Hollowness must prolly be taken into account for the sewer/road combo that may nerf the feat to more believable levels. But the steel wall section is a low-ball to say the least at the bare minimum.

That and the road thing should have been done in one single punch for the full yield to scale to Croc, not multiple. If it took multiple punches, default to the steel wall bust.

 

[Transcending]

Can somebody list all of our currently accepted 9-A and 8-C calculations for Batman-level post-Flashpoint DC Comics characters please?

8-C

1: Batman survives the explosion of a submarine
2: Deathstroke gets sent to the water gulag(he gets a submarine thrown at him basically)
3: Blight causes a shockwave (8-C+)

Possibly 8-C, At least 9-A+

1: Batman survives an explosion destroying the top of a skyscraper. The feat is 9-A+ if we assume Batman was 7-8 metres away from the explosion and 8-C if we assume he was 5 metres or lower.

9-A

1: Batman tanks an RPG
2: Constantine survives an explosion (9-A+). This is less than 0.01 tons of TNT from Building level and considering Batman should be above Constantine, we can upscale Bats to 8-C.

Potentially 9-A

1: Tanks a tank shell, depending on the shell it can get upto 9-A but can also be as low as 9-B

 

[Chariot190]

Hollowness must prolly be taken into account for the sewer/road combo that may nerf the feat to more believable levels. But the steel wall section is a low-ball to say the least at the bare minimum.

That and the road thing should have been done in one single punch for the full yield to scale to Croc, not multiple. If it took multiple punches, default to the steel wall bust.

punch

Was talking about this feat.

 

[Transcending]

I was considering 50/50 rock but then Mercy being too far away from the crater and the depth alone appearing wacky even when she's in it? I'm beginning to fear this might not be calculable to begin with.

About her being too far away, I guess we can use the grass height like @Chariot190 said?

 

[Transcending]

1: Survived an explosion that took down a whole building while heavily weakened(Batman 2011 #15)

This is one of his best feats but not sure how to calc.

2: Tanked the explosion of his boat while weakened(Batman 2011 #27)

Can calc if we know what the boat is made of.

If the feat is still not calcable, we should try calcing the above two feats and Deathstroke killing a country.

 

[KLOL506]

Was talking about this feat.

BRUH. False alarm then.

About her being too far away, I guess we can use the grass height like @Chariot190 said?

Nah, grass is too inconsistent to use.

 

[Transcending]

Nah, grass is too inconsistent to use

Well that sucks, it doesn't look like it can be calced then. Do you know a composition we can use for Batman's boat? That's the next hope.

 

[Chariot190]

Another rough 9-A calc, I like this one tho so I might spruce it up and blog it.

 

[Hellbeast]

Dunno about that, Deathstroke (2014) #5 has shown some pretty clear scaling between the two although Deathstroke wasn't as good in combat as normally as he had two eyes instead of one but he also had a younger, physically better body as well due to healing bs

This isn’t stated to make him stronger tho; it’s mentioned he’d rock Batman if it wasn’t for that and WOG implies he was physically weakened iirc

There are still these uncalc'd feats I listed, I'll start looking for more feats later on

Good idea

8-C

1: Batman survives the explosion of a submarine
2: Deathstroke gets sent to the water gulag(he gets a submarine thrown at him basically)
3: Blight causes a shockwave (8-C+)

Possibly 8-C, At least 9-A+

1: Batman survives an explosion destroying the top of a skyscraper. The feat is 9-A+ if we assume Batman was 7-8 metres away from the explosion and 8-C if we assume he was 5 metres or lower.

9-A

1: Batman tanks an RPG
2: Constantine survives an explosion (9-A+). This is less than 0.01 tons of TNT from Building level and considering Batman should be above Constantine, we can upscale Bats to 8-C.

Potentially 9-A

1: Tanks a tank shell, depending on the shell it can get upto 9-A but can also be as low as 9-B

good list; I’d also note Croc has a decent feat in a crossover tie in where he pulverised thick concrete to get at Clark.

Deathstroke also casually craters a wall with Harley at one point (which I saw was 9-A for BP) and there’s Rush’s feat (who Oliver could fight despite a strength gap). There’s also more explosion feats in the Suicide Squad comics but they might not be great

NKVDemon also has stuff but idk if it works

Anyway, there seems to be a few 8-C feats or high 9-A feats in the doc as well, but they're lacking some scans for context. Like this, anyone know what issue this is? Distance Tim was from the blast matters.

that feat is Post-Crisis; it’s irrelevant to this conversation

Finished it. Wall level as expected

Lincoln throws Batman through two brick walls

vsbattles.fandom.com

disappointing but works since Bruce is weak as hell here (I recall there’s a clock tower feat here too)

 

[Hellbeast]

Here’s the Croc feat (it’s from Superman/Batman 2013, Annual 2). No idea how we could calculate the actual hole but it does collapse a building for what it’s worth

I also vaguely recall a 9-A feat for the SS surviving a space ship crash in Rebirth but idk where

there’s this Batwoman feat but it doesn’t look that good (prolly casual 9-B?). Aside from
That idk I guess (is Vandal Street Tier in the New 52?)

 

[Transcending]

it’s mentioned he’d rock Batman if it wasn’t for that and WOG implies he was physically weakened iirc

Ye, Deathstroke said he would three-shot Batman if he wasn't weakened. WOG stated that Deathstroke was just 25% of his peak.

It should be noted that Batman was heavily holding back here though, in fact Deathstroke himself said he would have died if Batman got serious.

(I recall there’s a clock tower feat here too)

This is correct.

 

[Hellbeast]

Ye, Deathstroke said he would three-shot Batman if he wasn't weakened. WOG stated that Deathstroke was just 25% of his peak.

Yep; I don’t think he was back to his prime until the WW crossover

It should be noted that Batman was heavily holding back here though, in fact Deathstroke himself said he would have died if Batman got serious.

True but I feel the implication is it’s not via raw strength; Bruce has pressure points and had that can get around an unstable Slade

This is correct.

That whole section was mental no joke