The creation isn’t why it has that. Dark ki distorted the laws and physics and created a “rule” on reality (which is the same thing as law) that anything that happens in the Copy Universe happens in the Original Universe. So, the Copy Universe which was created from dark ki has it for that reason not necessarily just creating a Universe. The reason I was confused on the agreement was because the OP wasn’t trying to remove it, but only scale it to Dark Ki + Time Power.
It being Causality manip doesn’t really contradict it being Law Manip, the way the rule works also is just Causality Manip. They’re not physically connected, but connected in the sense that whatever happens in the Copy Universe will happen in the Original Universe. It‘s stated the rule forces the Universe to copy whatever the Copy Universe does. If it‘s a rule that makes reality function a certain way how wouldn’t that be Law Manipulation?
Insta kill can be achieved via many means. Here it's literally just EE.
What you described is again, Causality Manipulation (a surprisingly more decent example of it than what's currently used). My entire point is that you're basing Law Manipulation on a one-off mention of the world rules when it's used to explain what happened due to the connection and merging of both histories.
Thanks for the correction but the point stands regardless. I've noticed that some of these abilities look too much at the singular use of words instead of wider effects.
I am aware.
Okay I got a little bit confused by what you were arguing in the OP, but now I’m more aware since you’ve elaborated. We can compile all the points in the OP in a single post, as you suggested as well.
You know, this snide would be tremendously more impactful outside a context where an ability was called the directional manipulation of space-time.
Yeah, vectors comprise direction and magnitude. Aeos was controlling the directions of the air/gravity in the environment, and given that she could increase its force, she must've been controlling their magnitude too.
In other words, you're admitting the aforementioned feats fall under the umbrella of reality warping hax, but think its redundant to mention the same feat multiple times for the sake of fleshing out the abilities list? That's strictly a matter of personal preference then.
Wouldn't this ability just require a non-combat applicable note then?
The argument about the baseline abilities not necessarily scaling to TokiToki's law manipulation makes sense, but you're forgetting the other justification in that time power is an all-encompassing force that sustains and creates all of space-time, including the Afterlife which has distinct metaphysical laws governing it in contrast to the Living Universe where things follow the laws of science.
Uh..... there seems to be a misunderstanding here. No one ever said time power users automatically held eternal life, only that they could bestow it, hence why this immortality is listed as a subset of time power's power bestowal.
Moving on:
How in the world is controlling space-time, dimensions, and reality to the point of demonstrably remaking existence according to one's desires "not enough evidence" of reality warping??? I genuinely don't understand.
Once again, you're misrepresenting the argument and the core reasoning behind describing time power as an all-encompassing energy that sustains and creates all timelines. We're pushing that to the extreme? The World of Void is explicitly recorded on time scrolls, as is the subspace since it exists under the macro-cosmology. Why shouldn't the power of time which creates time and physical reality be able to create and manipulate the substance of the aforementioned voids, which fall under the power's dominion?
I'm fine with this. I agreed with the justifications before since they described "timelines being flattened," but looking over them again, that word isn't actually mentioned. I don't see why timelines being reduced to pieces would constitute dimensional manipulation and not regular space-time destruction without clear-cut evidence of these timelines becoming literal 2-D objects, which was argued previously.
I agree. Paralysis, as defined in most dictionaries, implies a loss of movement due to certain kinds of physical pressure like poison, injury, illness, etc. Stopping the effects of time on a directed object is different from that. I've heard some DBH supporters argue in the past that time power can inflict "paralysis" as a named status effect in-game, so if that's true, I'd rather find myself disagreeing with this particular ability downgrade.
I agree. The End of Time ability's description should be placed under the existence erasure justifications. Causing death via indrect means or other abilities isn't death manipulation unless those other abilities are depicted as aftereffects and "inducing death" is the primary function of said ability. For instance: "This technique brings death upon contact, say goodbye to your soul" is different from "This technique will reduce your soul to nothingness, say goodbye to the living world." The former depicts death inducement as the primary effect, while the latter doesn't.
Agree FRA.
This already has a translation made by the executor
ChatGPT is genuinely a good translation tool capable of explaining exact context clues, something a machine translation can't do. Bing AI is even better, so they should be using that instead.
This will just fall down creation feat, as the page says that it is the ability to create something without manipulating it, which is exactly the case here (they show no feat of manipulating the law in afterlife or the nothingness in the world of void). Plus all of these are indirectly created through the creation of all reality as opposed to directly creating it. We do not allow, for example, a character that can create the universe will have practically almost all powers in the wiki (range from abstraction such as law, causality, concept; to physical aspects like plant, earth, metal etc).
Anyone can also control the direction of their fist and its force
This isn't the same thing, you aren't manipulating the vectors of the energy that comes out of your fist, you are generating force, not manipulating it.
In the most literal sense, I’m pretty sure I’m right because moving an arm changes it’s magnitude and it’s direction.
This is a strange argument. Mainly coz it was stated pretty clearly that it was manipulation of direction by Demigra that utilizes force as well as direction on the target. So it being Vector Manipulation makes sense to me atleast as Directional Manipulation and Vector Manipulation are somewhat similar by definition but just with a twist of magnitude here which was shown when Demigra was being "pushed" down.
It only changes direction because you generate force against it by your own movement, and the magnitude doesn't exist until the first comes into contact into something, again you are generating force, not manipulating already existing forces. These are two different things. Blowing on air generates force that pushes it in another direction for a split second, that's not a vectorial manipulation
Alright let me be clearer. When I say literally, I mean outside of the wiki, not trying to say people have superpowers. The same way that humans can manipulate their temperature by sweating but we don’t give everybody that ability on the site
Yeah, when someone moves their fist, they are applying a force. This force is a vector because it has both magnitude (how hard the fist is moving) and direction (where the fist is moving). If the person changes the speed or direction of their fist, they are changing the magnitude or direction of the force vector. “Manipulating the vectors” refers to performing mathematical operations on vectors, such as addition, subtraction, scalar multiplication, dot product, or cross product.
As I said, this was not said in seriousness. In consideration of that, I beg that you spare my life
So like how you failed to address my entire point on how nothing here's remotely mentioned for time power actually manipulating concepts at all? Ok.
It's only "debunked" if staff agree with said debunk. Which from what I'm seeing they haven't.
Don't let bro cook ever again, most of his complaints have been outright debunked already, especially about Vector Manipulation. Not to mention, he seems to be going off his own personal standards instead of the wiki's standards imo, so no.
"2+2 is only 4 if Staff agree with it".
First of all, let's not go there with strawman arguments. I never said they can't be wrong, but in my opinion in this case it's correct for the removal of CM Type 1.
Read above.
Yeah but that doesn't necessarily mean their decision is correct.
You said it can only be as it is, if the particular party agrees with it. Which is not true. But let us not dive into semantics.
If staff ultimately approve of this then the agreed upon changes will pass anyway. Yes, staff aren't infallible and its not an absolutely perfect system but this is just fundamentally how the wiki is ran.
