Reintroducting HTC to the macrocosm. (DBS)

[BestMGQScalerEver]

From this translation about chozenshu 4 which is the guide that has dragon ball super, I have decided that the evidence is adequate enough to re-add HTC to the macrocosm.

I actually had that translated before, so it's a bit quick

どの世界にも属さない
〈亜空間〉
That which doesn't belong to the world
〈Subspace〉

この他、【図1】の世界のどこにも属さない「亜空間」が存在している。
Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1].

Figure 1 (図1) refers to the standard diagram of the Macrocosm that was depicted on the page previous to it.

そこでは「時間」や「空間」といった概念がなく、どのエリアからも切り離された次元の間に位置している。
There isn't a concept of Time or Space there, they are located between dimensions and detached from any area.

Just in any case 「時間」や「空間」is literally "time and space"
"概念がなく" is literally "no concept, lacks concept, without concept"
「精神と時の部屋」や「スゴロク空間」などが確認されている。
The "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed.

Basically, between the dimensions of the Dragon Ball world (As the entirety of the Macrocosm) exist subspaces that aren't a part of the diagram, they not only lack concepts of space and time, but are also detached from any area. Of them, the existence of the "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed (I think other places have also been confirmed as Subspace either in other guides or the series itself, but I don't remember for sure, could be wrong as well).

In this thread it accepted that the HTC is outside of the macrocosm due to Frieza's statement about being outside of the universe.

I will bring up new points to address this

As the translation says "Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1].", dimensions like HTC do not belong to any of the worlds/dimensions shown on the microcosm diagram but exist as a subspace between the dimensions of the macrocosm.

This also does not contradict Frieza's statement of them being outside the universe (which should now mean the mortal universe with this new context), as they exist as a subspace between the dimensions with their own space-time.

Should be simple enough which is why I'm keeping this short.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I fully agree.

 

[TiltedFN]

I whole heartedly agree with this, this blatantly proves the macrocosm does have different spacetimes entirely and GT should no longer be what's solely keeping the macrocosm 2-C. This proves, the living realm, afterlife, and kaioshin realm are their own spacetimes, with different spacetimes in-between them.

 

[omegabronic]

Disagree "That which doesn't belong to the world"

"Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1]."
Aka it doesn't belong to the macrocosm and it is not part of it, nothing in the translation is saying that it is part of the macrocosm, it does more just say more confirmarion that it isn't part of it

As the translation says "Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1].", dimensions like HTC do not belong to any of the worlds/dimensions shown on the microcosm diagram but exist as a subspace between the dimensions of the macrocosm.

where does the "between the dimensions of the macrocosm" is coming from?

I whole heartedly agree with this, this blatantly proves the macrocosm does have different spacetimes entirely and GT should no longer be what's solely keeping the macrocosm 2-C. This proves, the living realm, afterlife, and kaioshin realm are their own spacetimes, with different spacetimes in-between them.

Not really since the very scan says that they aren't space times

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Disagree "That which doesn't belong to the world"

"Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1]."
Aka it doesn't belong to the macrocosm and it is not part of it, nothing in the translation is saying that it is part of the macrocosm, it does more just say more confirmarion that it isn't part of it

Read the context. It's solely refering to the macrocosm and dimensions of the macrocosm. It's saying it does not belong to any of the dimensions shown on the macrocosm but instead exists between them as a subspace.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Read the context. It's solely refering to the macrocosm and dimensions of the macrocosm. It's saying it does not belong to any of the dimensions shown on the macrocosm but instead exists between them as a subspace.

As it is also called a subspace it's being indicated that it's a subspace of the macrocosm.

 

[TiltedFN]

Disagree "That which doesn't belong to the world"

"Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1]."
Aka it doesn't belong to the macrocosm and it is not part of it, nothing in the translation is saying that it is part of the macrocosm, it does more just say more confirmarion that it isn't part of it


where does the "between the dimensions of the macrocosm" is coming from?


Not really since the very scan says that they aren't space times

"That which doesn't belong to the world is clearly referencing the living realm, the afterlife, or the kaioshin realm. Also your statement gets debunked because it mentions the Sugoroku Space and the ROSAT to both be subspaces between dimensions, both separate spacetimes.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

where does the "between the dimensions of the macrocosm" is coming from?

"they are located between dimensions and separated from any area"

Read the translated text bro it's up lol

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I agree since one of the best translators we have on vsb translated the text for us and told us it’s referring to the RoSaT which is between dimensions of the macrocosm

Regarding Omega if you’re an expert on Japanese and think his translations are wrong you can speak to that with him https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5642207

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Very solid, I have nothing to say other than great work! Agreed.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Very solid. I agree.

 

[omegabronic]

Read the context. It's solely refering to the macrocosm and dimensions of the macrocosm. It's saying it does not belong to any of the dimensions shown on the macrocosm but instead exists between them as a subspace.

No, it straight up says that it doesn't belong to the macrocosm, the context seems to imply that it isn't even inside the macrocosm at all

As it is also called a subspace it's being indicated that it's a subspace of the macrocosm.

Or since it says that it says that it isn't part or the macrocosm, it could a Sub space of something else, like i don't think that it makes sense to be part of the macrocosm when it says thar it isn't at the same time

"That which doesn't belong to the world is clearly referencing the living realm, the afterlife, or the kaioshin realm.

Says who?

Also your statement gets debunked because it mentions the Sugoroku Space and the ROSAT to both be subspaces between dimensions,

and that debunks how?

both separate spacetimes.

It straight up says that it doesn't have any space or time, so they aren't space times

"they are located between dimensions and separated from any area"

Read the translated text bro it's up lol

Between dimensions yes, the context clearly means dimensions outside of the macrocosm, since it says that it is not part of the macrocosm

 

[omegabronic]

I agree since one of the best translators we have on vsb translated the text for us and told us it’s referring to the RoSaT which is between dimensions of the macrocosm

That seems to an opinion confront tbh

Regarding Omega if you’re an expert on Japanese and think his translations are wrong you can speak to that with him https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-5642207

Well i don't think the translation is wrong, so not really nescesary

 

[TiltedFN]

It straight up says that it doesn't have any space or time, so they aren't space times

A dimension can not have space and time but still be a different spacetime lol for wiki standards especially, and it does have a different time flow as shown, so yes it is different, and it never said it is separate from the macrocosm, but separate from the world which is clearly referencing one of the 3 dimensions in the macrocosm, hence being "in between them" and it getting compared to the Sugoroku Space which we know is in between dimensions, the same would apply to the ROSAT.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

No, it straight up says that it doesn't belong to the macrocosm, the context seems to imply that it isn't even inside the macrocosm at all


Or since it says that it says that it isn't part or the macrocosm, it could a Sub space of something else, like i don't think that it makes sense to be part of the macrocosm when it says thar it isn't at the same time


Says who?


and that debunks how?


It straight up says that it doesn't have any space or time, so they aren't space times


Between dimensions yes, the context clearly means dimensions outside of the macrocosm, since it says that it is not part of the macrocosm

Crazy how you ignored my entire message, but anyways the scans say that’s it’s between dimensions BUT have no concept of space and time.

That seems to an opinion confront tbh


Well i don't think the translation is wrong, so not really nescesary

Executor says this then
“I actually had that translated before, so it's a bit quick

どの世界にも属さない
〈亜空間〉
That which doesn't belong to the world
〈Subspace〉

この他、【図1】の世界のどこにも属さない「亜空間」が存在している。
Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1].

Figure 1 (図1) refers to the standard diagram of the Macrocosm that was depicted on the page previous to it.

そこでは「時間」や「空間」といった概念がなく、どのエリアからも切り離された次元の間に位置している。
There isn't a concept of Time or Space there, they are located between dimensions and detached from any area.

Just in any case 「時間」や「空間」is literally "time and space"
"概念がなく" is literally "no concept, lacks concept, without concept"
「精神と時の部屋」や「スゴロク空間」などが確認されている。
The "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed.

Basically, between the dimensions of the Dragon Ball world (As the entirety of the Macrocosm) exist subspaces that aren't a part of the diagram, they not only lack concepts of space and time, but are also detached from any area. Of them, the existence of the "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed (I think other places have also been confirmed as Subspace either in other guides or the series itself, but I don't remember for sure, could be wrong as well).”

 

[Jinsama]

if the translation is legit and not some wonky machine translation ... i agree

edit: yeah its legit. agree 100%

 

[omegabronic]

A dimension can not have space and time but still be a different spacetime lol

No that is self contradictory

for wiki standards especially, and it does have a different time flow as shown

dilation of time due to what merus says

so yes it is different, and it never said it is separate from the macrocosm, but separate from the world which is clearly referencing one of the 3 dimensions in the macrocosm
, hence being "in between them"

it says that it is between dimensions, not between the dimensions of the macrocosm since it litterally says that it is not part of the world depicted by the macrocosm map, if it was between the dimensions of it then it would be part of it

and it getting compared to the Sugoroku Space which we know is in between dimensions

no we don't, it is said to be bewteen space times, that's it, no mention of other dimensions of the macrocosm

Crazy how you ignored my entire message

sorry i am confused, whar did i ignore exactly?

, but anyways the scans say that’s it’s between dimensions BUT have no concept of space and time.

so at the same time it says thar it isn't part of the world represented by the macrocosm map it is saying that it is part of by being in between them? Sorry how does that make sense?

Executor says this then
“I actually had that translated before, so it's a bit quick

どの世界にも属さない
〈亜空間〉
That which doesn't belong to the world
〈Subspace〉

この他、【図1】の世界のどこにも属さない「亜空間」が存在している。
Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1].

Figure 1 (図1) refers to the standard diagram of the Macrocosm that was depicted on the page previous to it.

そこでは「時間」や「空間」といった概念がなく、どのエリアからも切り離された次元の間に位置している。
There isn't a concept of Time or Space there, they are located between dimensions and detached from any area.

Just in any case 「時間」や「空間」is literally "time and space"
"概念がなく" is literally "no concept, lacks concept, without concept"
「精神と時の部屋」や「スゴロク空間」などが確認されている。
The "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed.

Basically, between the dimensions of the Dragon Ball world (As the entirety of the Macrocosm) exist subspaces that aren't a part of the diagram, they not only lack concepts of space and time, but are also detached from any area. Of them, the existence of the "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed (I think other places have also been confirmed as Subspace either in other guides or the series itself, but I don't remember for sure, could be wrong as well).”

Can you show me the part that it is sugesting that it is between the dimensions of the macrocosm? Because that is straight contradicted in the same text when it says that it isn't part of it at all

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

No that is self contradictory


dilation of time due to what merus says


it says that it is between dimensions, not between the dimensions of the macrocosm since it litterally says that it is not part of the world depicted by the macrocosm map, if it was between the dimensions of it then it would be part of it


no we don't, it is said to be bewteen space times, that's it, no mention of other dimensions of the macrocosm


sorry i am confused, whar did i ignore exactly?


so at the same time it says thar it isn't part of the world represented by the macrocosm map it is saying that it is part of by being in between them? Sorry how does that make sense?


Can you show me the part that it is sugesting that it is between the dimensions of the macrocosm? Because that is straight contradicted in the same text when it says that it isn't part of it at all

Basically it shows a representation of the Macrocosm in a picture depicted and then the kanji says that you won’t see the RoSaT in the depiction because they’re between dimensions and then Executor gives a brief description of what that means

“Basically, between the dimensions of the Dragon Ball world (As the entirety of the Macrocosm) exist subspaces that aren't a part of the diagram, they not only lack concepts of space and time, but are also detached from any area. Of them, the existence of the "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed (I think other places have also been confirmed as Subspace either in other guides or the series itself, but I don't remember for sure, could be wrong as well).”

 

[omegabronic]

Basically it shows a representation of the Macrocosm in a picture depicted and then the kanji says that you won’t see the RoSaT in the depiction because they’re between dimensions and then Executor gives a brief description of what that means

I mean, looking at the translations that doesn't seem to be the meaning, it just says that "it doesn't belong to the world represented in image 1" refering to the macrocosm representation, it sounds weird that it would say to be between the dimensions of the macrocosm while also not part of it

“Basically, between the dimensions of the Dragon Ball world (As the entirety of the Macrocosm) exist subspaces that aren't a part of the diagram, they not only lack concepts of space and time, but are also detached from any area. Of them, the existence of the "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed (I think other places have also been confirmed as Subspace either in other guides or the series itself, but I don't remember for sure, could be wrong as well).”

Ngl, that sounds like to be just his opinion, maybe we should call him here, that could solve all the problems i have in a second and boom

omniking please let this not have 8 pages please, i really do not want that

 

[TiltedFN]

I mean, looking at the translations that doesn't seem to be the meaning, it just says that "it doesn't belong to the world represented in image 1" refering to the macrocosm representation, it sounds weird that it would say to be between the dimensions of the macrocosm while also not part of it


Ngl, that sounds like to be just his opinion, maybe we should call him here, that could solve all the problems i have in a second and boom

omniking please let this not have 8 pages please, i really do not want that

Its not his opinion, it is literally a summary of the information we were already given

 

[omegabronic]

Its not his opinion, it is literally a summary of the information we were already given

A summary made by him of his opinion, seeing the translation i don't see that being what it is being said

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I mean, looking at the translations that doesn't seem to be the meaning, it just says that "it doesn't belong to the world represented in image 1" refering to the macrocosm representation, it sounds weird that it would say to be between the dimensions of the macrocosm while also not part of it


Ngl, that sounds like to be just his opinion, maybe we should call him here, that could solve all the problems i have in a second and boom

omniking please let this not have 8 pages please, i really do not want that

この他、【図1】の世界のどこにも属さない「亜空間」が存在している。
Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1].

Figure 1 (図1) refers to the standard diagram of the Macrocosm that was depicted on the page previous to it.

そこでは「時間」や「空間」といった概念がなく、どのエリアからも切り離された次元の間に位置している。
There isn't a concept of Time or Space there, they are located between dimensions and detached from any area.

Just in any case 「時間」や「空間」is literally "time and space"
"概念がなく" is literally "no concept, lacks concept, without concept"
「精神と時の部屋」や「スゴロク空間」などが確認されている。
The "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed.

It’s not his opinion he’s giving us a deeper meaning to what it’s talking about it’s telling us the subspaces arent depicted in the standard diagram of the macrocosm like Executor said and tells us that it’s between dimensions and detached from any area (they’re detached from the dimensions since they’re between it)

The only reason this’ll get to 8 pages is if you don’t read the context

 

[Tarang123]

No, it straight up says that it doesn't belong to the macrocosm, the context seems to imply that it isn't even inside the macrocosm at all

Dude, did you read what it said?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Dude, did you read what it said?

Looks like he didn't read the text lol

 

[omegabronic]

この他、【図1】の世界のどこにも属さない「亜空間」が存在している。
Also, there are subspaces that don't belong anywhere in the world depicted in [Fig.1].

The world depicted being the entire macrocosm

Figure 1 (図1) refers to the standard diagram of the Macrocosm that was depicted on the page previous to it.

そこでは「時間」や「空間」といった概念がなく、どのエリアからも切り離された次元の間に位置している。
There isn't a concept of Time or Space there, they are located between dimensions and detached from any area.

Which is what is confusing me, it says that it is part of it and not at the same time, i think i change from disagree to neutral, this is confusing

Just in any case 「時間」や「空間」is literally "time and space"
"概念がなく" is literally "no concept, lacks concept, without concept"
「精神と時の部屋」や「スゴロク空間」などが確認されている。
The "Room of Spirit and Time" and "Sugoroku Space" have been confirmed.

It’s not his opinion he’s giving us a deeper meaning to what it’s talking about it’s telling us the subspaces arent depicted in the standard diagram of the macrocosm like Executor said and tells us that it’s between dimensions and detached from any area (they’re detached from the dimensions since they’re between it)

yeah but that is his opinion still, nowhere in the text a context shows or indicates what he explains

The only reason this’ll get to 8 pages is if you don’t read the context

relax i am just joking right now

Dude, did you read what it said?

Yes i did

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Sorry for not replying, I've been playing terraria. It seems like this is just gonna end up as a back and forth. I think we should get staff opinion.

 

[TiltedFN]

Sorry for not replying, I've been playing terraria. It seems like this is just gonna end up as a back and forth. I think we should get staff opinion.

This shouldn't even be this difficult. But staff would help.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

The world depicted being the entire macrocosm


Which is what is confusing me, it says that it is part of it and not at the same time, i think i change from disagree to neutral, this is confusing


yeah but that is his opinion still, nowhere in the text a context shows or indicates what he explains


relax i am just joking right now


Yes i did

belong
of a thing) be rightly placed in a specified position.
"learning to place the blame where it belongs"

• be rightly classified in or assigned to a specified category.
  "bony fish: the vast majority of living fish belong here"
  Also, there are subspaces that aren’t rightly placed in a specific position anywhere in the world depicted (this is if I replace belong with what one of the definitions for it)
  
  I want to mention it was Executor’s explanation on what it meant not an opinion he was explaining the context and gave scans telling us what it meant in conjunction with his translation and it fits perfectly with the translated text you’re the only one making this “Confusing”
  

 

[omegabronic]

belong
of a thing) be rightly placed in a specified position.
"learning to place the blame where it belongs"

• be rightly classified in or assigned to a specified category.
  "bony fish: the vast majority of living fish belong here"
  Also, there are subspaces that aren’t rightly placed in a specific position anywhere in the world depicted (this is if I replace belong with what one of the definitions for it)

if they aren't placed in any position in the world depicted, then nothing on what i am saying really changes with this meaning

• I want to mention it was Executor’s explanation on what it meant not an opinion he was explaining the context and gave scans telling us what it meant in conjunction with his translation and it fits perfectly with the translated text you’re the only one making this “Confusing”

it will always be an opinion, this type of stuff with a highly subjective language is almost never factual

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

if they aren't placed in any position in the world depicted, then nothing on what i am saying really changes with this meaning




it will always be an opinion, this type of stuff with a highly subjective language is almost never factual

It’s merely saying that the subspaces aren’t depicted and that it’s between dimensions

How is it an opinion if he’s explaining what the translation means? his explanation is based off what it says

 

[AguilaR202]

Why would this be relevant to scaling or DBZSGT cosmology?

 

[speedster352]

I fully agree

 

[Aachintya31]

I disagree with this.
We cannot use secondary canon if it contradicts primary canon.

そこでは「時間」や「空間」といった概念がなく、どのエリアからも切り離された次元の間に位置している。
There isn't a concept of Time or Space there

This line is highly contradictory with the show.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I disagree with this.
We cannot use secondary canon if it contradicts primary canon.

This line is highly contradictory with the show.

This seems very nitpicky. It just seems as a flowery way of saying it's disconnected from realms such as afterlife and living world. Plus the location of it being a subspace between dimensions doesn't contradict anything with the anime or manga.

 

[omegabronic]

It’s merely saying that the subspaces aren’t depicted and that it’s between dimensions

Not really, the meaning that you showed earlier says "of a thing) be rightly placed in a specified position." In this case the specific position would be the macrocosm, and it not belonging in there means that it isn't in placed in the macrocosm

How is it an opinion if he’s explaining what the translation means?

he is explaining what he thinks it means since it isn't directly stared what it means, this is a subjective topic, everything about such subjective langauge will almost always be an opinion

his explanation is based off what it says

Which changes nothing about how it is his interpretation

 

[omegabronic]

Why would this be relevant to scaling or DBZSGT cosmology?

Accuracy>>>>>>>>>any scaling whatsoever

 

[Aachintya31]

This seems very nitpicky. It just seems as a flowery way of saying it's disconnected from realms such as afterlife and living world. Plus the location of it being a subspace between dimensions doesn't contradict anything with the anime or manga.

It's literally saying HTC doesn't have a space-time which is wrong.

 

[omegabronic]

This seems very nitpicky. It just seems as a flowery way of saying it's disconnected from realms such as afterlife and living world. Plus the location of it being a subspace between dimensions doesn't contradict anything with the anime or manga.

I mean, that is straight up saying that such areas do not have any time or space at all

 

[AguilaR202]

I mean, that is straight up saying that such areas do not have any time or space at all

Which is wrong because RoSAT explicitly has an accelerated time relative to the rest of the macrocosm and characters age whilst inside of it.
I don’t know about other sub dimensions but the statement clearly doesn’t apply to the RoSAT

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

@Chasekilleen knows japanese and told that its using concept of time and space as a way to say it does not have normal time or space compared to the other worlds. Which can be demonstrated by something like HTC's timeflow or how Sugoroku Space can't be entered by the kais.