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DB Games: Ziku

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Creation doesn’t mean you’re literally able to manipulate the very specific aspects, as I’ve said in previous threads this is no different from claiming some character creating the universe would just by default have blood, life, plant, matter, elemental manipulation among many other things just because the universe just happens to have these without any explicit evidence that they can directly manipulate these things.

Your false history example doesn’t work when Aios isn’t defining them as a way to separate specific time scrolls that have certain duties, but just her speaking the typical villain speech on how she can control the true path while burning these histories away, as she doesn’t see them as worthy of her time. For something that’s “false” the time patrol sure as hell got upset over her destroying them like they’re actual timelines filled with innocent people.

No you’re saying that it being Fu’s creation is contradicted in the scene when at no point was it ever contradicted and further elaborated to be something he invented in the first place. Idk what you’re trying to pull with this strawman but the fact you admit this is a new creation for Fu and with this he can directly control or manipulate the data, something we don’t see any time patroller or anyone who can control the time scrolls do makes this very questionable to say the least.

Literally prove that they’re directly manipulating the wi fi network like it’s DDLC where they directly mess with the wifi network itself, alongside the fact that they can do this with time scrolls in the first place. Because saying it’s made by mortals doesnt change the fact that there’s nothing information based that they’re directly manipulating at all.
 
Creation=! Manipulation. Ok, that's cool and all, but like, we know that isn't the case with Time Power since we have a gazillion statements of how it shapes,governs all histories and grants its users the power to control/manipulate them. We saw this argument coming from miles away.

Leaving that aside the whole argument for Tokipedia being separate is literally just ONE.
Being called "Time Rift Edition" despite the fact that it's called that way...since it's a Time Scroll that is limited to Time Rifts and nothing else.
Nice name fallacy, though.

Also idk why you're bringing up DDLC, but their info 2 comes from manipulating IN VERSE data files, not "Our RL Wi-Fi Network".
So again, at least be sure to know what you're talking about before you comment,no offense meant.
 
@Ottavio_Merluzzo Shaping and governing all of history doesn’t grant you the ability to have a dozen different abilities just because you’re governing timelines, which has certain elements. Again literally every creation feat in fiction would’ve granted any of these characters over a dozen different abilities if that’s how it functioned on the site, but we don’t.

Literally what part of it is a name fallacy when it’s further elaborating the fact that the Tokipedia itself is a new thing that Fu himself uses?

You’re using real life things like Wi Fi connection to argue that the characters in DBH just have information manipulation without any evidence that they’re fully aware of these real world scenarios like in DDLC where they’re aware of the game files and can mess with them directly. If you’re going to push for the Ziku world being info hax via Wi Fi connection, then there better be some actual proof that the Wi Fi connections are something the characters can directly control or manipulate.
 
just come back due to huge amount of real life work cause a huge storm hit my country, but:
Theglassman12 said:
when it’s further elaborating the fact that the Tokipedia itself is a new thing that Fu himself uses?
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Let remind this part of the argument that, you agreed Tokipedia is new thing............to Fu, yes it is, to Fu himself it is a new thing because, like, he never have a time scroll before, so making it mean it is new to himself, doesn't mean anything. It is like i myself never made a steel sword before, but now a start making a steel sword, so to me it is completely a new creation, but not to other, it is still the same steel sword. new and old is completely subjective term when put in a vacuum, it is new to Fu and only him
Theglassman12 said:
Literally what part of it is a name fallacy
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So just because it have some slightly different name mean it is fundamentally different from the rest???, that is name fallacy, nothing support this line of argument from you when the verse itself went directly against it by saying Tokipedia is just.............a replicated version

Now however let me entertain this line of logic from you, so by your logic, i have two steel swords, now i name them differently, so that action suddenly change them fundamentally?, change their properties, nature, make them different? By this logic, Vegeta's Final Flash is fundamentally different compare to Goku's Kamehameha because they have different name, despite the fact that both are just Ki beam with different name. So do you see how bad this logic is?

Theglassman12 said:
like in DDLC where they’re aware of the game files and can mess with them directly
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can we first stop with whataboutism???, or DDLC is the standard itself for info 2 manip that you keep bringing it up??, cause i don't remember DDLC made the site's standard about info 2 hax, both verse are different in setting
 
Planck69 said:
Neutral for now. Glass is admittedly correct that controlling the totality of a structure doesn't inherently grant you a power related to every aspect of that structure.
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That makes no sense and even less comparison with the universe since this is not a conscious being and we specifically know that they created this digital something. The fact that they couldn't manipulate it would be quite ridiculous considering that they created the structure along with its functioning.
 
@Vietthai96 That's not the same comparison when Fu's not making a general steel sword, but a specific time scroll that allows him to collect data for himself. The more accurate comparison would be him making a gun blade more than a normal steel sword as he's doing something unique with this, and again this is not shown to be something anyone with a time scroll can do unless you can provide scans of them directly manipulating data and information.

Your ki blast and sword example doesn't work here when Fu's using something far more abstract than something conventional like energy and a medieval weapon, plus you haven't shown anything that remotely implies this is a common thing for time scrolls that they can directly control or manipulate data/information itself.

I bring up DDLC because you're using real life applications in a video game setting to back up your point on info hax like the Ziku World, something DDLC actually proves with being aware of the media and also showing to directly manipulate information/data like the literal game files themselves.

@Dagoth_OwO I don't know if that helps given it talks about radio waves being caught, which isn't really data/information as it's more an electromagnetic radiation than actual data/info itself.
 
You realize that Fu is not doing anything different, he is simply creating his version of the scrolls. The game says that it does the same thing, in what sense it is different, how it changes or what makes it different. Can you give examples of something that differentiates it from the scrolls?
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Vietthai96 That's not the same comparison when Fu's not making a general steel sword, but a specific time scroll that allows him to collect data for himself. The more accurate comparison would be him making a gun blade more than a normal steel sword as he's doing something unique with this, and again this is not shown to be something anyone with a time scroll can do unless you can provide scans of them directly manipulating data and information.

Your ki blast and sword example doesn't work here when Fu's using something far more abstract than something conventional like energy and a medieval weapon, plus you haven't shown anything that remotely implies this is a common thing for time scrolls that they can directly control or manipulate data/information itself.

I bring up DDLC because you're using real life applications in a video game setting to back up your point on info hax like the Ziku World, something DDLC actually proves with being aware of the media and also showing to directly manipulate information/data like the literal game files themselves.

@Dagoth_OwO I don't know if that helps given it talks about radio waves being caught, which isn't really data/information as it's more an electromagnetic radiation than actual data/info itself.
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The same technology used to create radio waves can also alter the time on the Nintendo 3DS, which is acknowledged by the game itself. The radio waves are not normal radio waves, as they also affect Wi-Fi connections.and the data ziku word
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Vietthai96 That's not the same comparison when Fu's not making a general steel sword, but a specific time scroll that allows him to collect data for himself. The more accurate comparison would be him making a gun blade more than a normal steel sword as he's doing something unique with this, and again this is not shown to be something anyone with a time scroll can do unless you can provide scans of them directly manipulating data and information.

Your ki blast and sword example doesn't work here when Fu's using something far more abstract than something conventional like energy and a medieval weapon, plus you haven't shown anything that remotely implies this is a common thing for time scrolls that they can directly control or manipulate data/information itself.

I bring up DDLC because you're using real life applications in a video game setting to back up your point on info hax like the Ziku World, something DDLC actually proves with being aware of the media and also showing to directly manipulate information/data like the literal game files themselves.

@Dagoth_OwO I don't know if that helps given it talks about radio waves being caught, which isn't really data/information as it's more an electromagnetic radiation than actual data/info itself.
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Nowhere is it stated that this is a special time scroll that does things the time scroll cannot do. The only thing it’s called is an accurate replica of the Book of Beginning and End, along with being a time rift edition (one that specifically records it being a time rift). There is literally no scans that state tokipedia is unique. The scans we’ve sent say the opposite that the tokipedia is an accurate replica of the time scroll. The simple conclusion would simply be that since it’s stated to be an accurate replica of the time scroll, that it’s an accurate replica.

Dude the real life applications are brought up in the game, it’s stated that’s the thing that makes up the world. That’s the entire basis, your whole argument is that DDLC has more proof of the thing we’re arguing for? Which is a weird argument because even if I don’t know much about DDLC the evidence we have would suffice. The Ziku world being made out of the networks of Wi-Fi and the mortals creating this world. This is not the same as arguing that creating a universe gives you things like blood manipulation by default. The whole argument is based upon Ziku World being a digital world made of Wi-Fi networks. The cyber aspect of the world and the mortals creating it is what it hinges on. The world itself is information-based.

Also, just to point out something earlier. The time patrol getting upset over Aeos trying to destroy “false” timelines doesn’t mean they’re not false timelines. A false timeline is made when time distortions occur, so that’s not really a point against it being a false timeline. I also never strawmanned you, since in your earlier post you argued that the replica statement was contradicted on the first page.

Regarding the radio waves point, the scan is telling us that the Ziku-kan radar can pick up Wi-Fi signals, that open time-space rifts also changing character. The radio waves are referring to the Wi-Fi signals that it mentions a line beforehand. We’re shown that the Ziku-kan radar messes receives the Wi-Fi signals and manages to change the characters and make holes in time-space. The scan OwO sent is even more proof that the Wi-FI information is more than a real life thing and something that’s actually acknowledged in the game (Dunno how you can get the conclusion that it’s simply an irl thing, when the in-game lore tells us that this is the thing that makes up the world, along with the mortals making it).
 
@Banjo77 you mean the thing that's designed as Fu's own experiment report? If you guys can remotely prove that they're directly controlling and manipulating data/info itself from other time scrolls then sure.

@TheGodOfICE777 You can keep requoting the accurate replica but it doesn't change the fact that it's designed as Fu's own experiment report as well as it being an invention specific to him.

You got any actual lore implications of this beyond a gameplay tutorial on how to hop onto other worlds? Because unless the Wi Fi directly exists as an actual thing in the world, and if you can't prove that time scrolls can directly control it then I'm not seeing how this would translate to info hax in the verse. The only new information you remotely brought up is the fact that mortals created it, which not only doesn't tell me shit on them manipulating literal data/info, but also doesn't remotely help back up the time scrolls making the ziku world in the first place.

You got any proof that in the lore of Heroes/Xenoverse that there are specific timelines that are categorized as false timelines beyond just some villain speech dump from Aios? Because a villain speech isn't really helping your case here.

You do realize all that explains is just space time rifts right? Nothing about this is controlling literal data, and the fact that it's elaborated to be radio waves (something that's defined as a specific electromagnetic radiation) further goes against the idea of Ziku worlds even being tied to data/info.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Banjo77 you mean the thing that's designed as Fu's own experiment report? If you guys can remotely prove that they're directly controlling and manipulating data/info itself from other time scrolls then sure.

@TheGodOfICE777 You can keep requoting the accurate replica but it doesn't change the fact that it's designed as Fu's own experiment report as well as it being an invention specific to him.

You got any actual lore implications of this beyond a gameplay tutorial on how to hop onto other worlds? Because unless the Wi Fi directly exists as an actual thing in the world, and if you can't prove that time scrolls can directly control it then I'm not seeing how this would translate to info hax in the verse. The only new information you remotely brought up is the fact that mortals created it, which not only doesn't tell me shit on them manipulating literal data/info, but also doesn't remotely help back up the time scrolls making the ziku world in the first place.

You got any proof that in the lore of Heroes/Xenoverse that there are specific timelines that are categorized as false timelines beyond just some villain speech dump from Aios? Because a villain speech isn't really helping your case here.

You do realize all that explains is just space time rifts right? Nothing about this is controlling literal data, and the fact that it's elaborated to be radio waves (something that's defined as a specific electromagnetic radiation) further goes against the idea of Ziku worlds even being tied to data/info.
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it is literally mentioned as a copy because it wouldn't be the same if a copy could mention that things don't have tokipedia
Because unless Wi-Fi exists directly as something real in the world, and if you can't prove that time scrolls can control it directly, then you won't see how this translates into existing information in the back. The only new information that you mentioned remotely is the knowledge that the mortals created it, which on the ground doesn't tell me anything about them manipulating literal data/information, but that also remotely helps to support the scrolls of the time that created the world in first place.
ziku word is part of it, it is all part of it, it is part of it
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Banjo77 you mean the thing that's designed as Fu's own experiment report? If you guys can remotely prove that they're directly controlling and manipulating data/info itself from other time scrolls then sure.

@TheGodOfICE777 You can keep requoting the accurate replica but it doesn't change the fact that it's designed as Fu's own experiment report as well as it being an invention specific to him.
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K? That doesn't mean Fu's Time Scroll has some unique features, especially when we're shown the opposite . Not only that, but aside being stated to be a replica, it records time rifts only. Hopefully you realize this argument of yours only hurts your case since you're implying Tokipedia is limited when compared to regular Time Scrolls.
Theglassman12 said:
You got any proof that in the lore of Heroes/Xenoverse that there are specific timelines that are categorized as false timelines beyond just some villain speech dump from Aios? Because a villain speech isn't really helping your case here.
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Here. And btw, Aeos isn't the average Zamasu. The reason she did what she did is because false histories distort spacetime and could end up giving birth to new threats like Demigra.
Theglassman12 said:
You do realize all that explains is just space time rifts right? Nothing about this is controlling literal data, and the fact that it's elaborated to be radio waves (something that's defined as a specific electromagnetic radiation) further goes against the idea of Ziku worlds even being tied to data/info.
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No offense,but uh...thanks for telling me you don't know how Wi-Fi works? Wi-Fi works via high energy radio waves. And guess what's in those? Exactly,data and information. So "further goes against"???

And yeah, Wifi exists, since you can detect it in verse.
 
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Theglassman12 said:
@Dagoth_OwO I don't know if that helps given it talks about radio waves being caught, which isn't really data/information as it's more an electromagnetic radiation than actual data/info itself.
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A Wifi specifically uses radio waves to transmit information/data so it being just "radiation" is just objectively untrue. For using these waves that carry information in them to completely change the people in the Ziku World seems pretty clear case of information manipulation to me.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Banjo77 you mean the thing that's designed as Fu's own experiment report? If you guys can remotely prove that they're directly controlling and manipulating data/info itself from other time scrolls then sure.

@TheGodOfICE777 You can keep requoting the accurate replica but it doesn't change the fact that it's designed as Fu's own experiment report as well as it being an invention specific to him.

You got any actual lore implications of this beyond a gameplay tutorial on how to hop onto other worlds? Because unless the Wi Fi directly exists as an actual thing in the world, and if you can't prove that time scrolls can directly control it then I'm not seeing how this would translate to info hax in the verse. The only new information you remotely brought up is the fact that mortals created it, which not only doesn't tell me shit on them manipulating literal data/info, but also doesn't remotely help back up the time scrolls making the ziku world in the first place.

You got any proof that in the lore of Heroes/Xenoverse that there are specific timelines that are categorized as false timelines beyond just some villain speech dump from Aios? Because a villain speech isn't really helping your case here.

You do realize all that explains is just space time rifts right? Nothing about this is controlling literal data, and the fact that it's elaborated to be radio waves (something that's defined as a specific electromagnetic radiation) further goes against the idea of Ziku worlds even being tied to data/info.
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And?? It being his own experiment report and new creation doesn’t contradict it being stated to be an accurate replica. I genuinely feel like you’re being intentionally disingenuous because none of this disproves the accurate replication. You’re just mentioning that it’s called other things, but that isn’t a negation of it being an accurate replica. The reason I’m pressing you on the accurate replica point is because it’s a blatant statement that you’re attempting to get around. None of what you’re saying against it contradicts the statement.

I mean it’s stated that’s what the world is made out, and that the blue lines that we see are from those Wi-Fi networks. Also, yeah it does exist as a real thing in the world. The Ziku-kan radar is the thing that detects the Wi-Fi networks, and it makes holes in space-time via Wi-Fi signals. Also, my argument doesn’t really have to do with the time scrolls nor time power. It has more to do with the mortals. The Ziku world being a digital information-based world and the mortals creating it. The fact that it has Wi-FI based things to its world and then the mortals created it. That means they indeed would’ve had to interact with the networks.

False timelines, are created in distortions in history.

Dude, the Ziku-kan radar talks about how it detects the Wi-Fi networks and how they also make up the Ziku world. Then, we have a direct statement that it can open up holes in time-space via Wi-FI signals. Not to mention it switches characters too. This is pretty obviously something that is used and acknowledged in-game. Also, that’s just what Wi-Fi is. Wi-Fi is literally just radio waves thought this was common knowledge, but whatever. If the world is made up of the Wi-FI information, then it should be quite easy to see how this is made out of information. Like what Elizhaa brought up about the OSI model.
 
Can I ask, who actually would gain Data/Info Type 2? You don't mention on the OP who would scale to It.
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
And?? It being his own experiment report and new creation doesn’t contradict it being stated to be an accurate replica. I genuinely feel like you’re being intentionally disingenuous because none of this disproves the accurate replication. You’re just mentioning that it’s called other things, but that isn’t a negation of it being an accurate replica. The reason I’m pressing you on the accurate replica point is because it’s a blatant statement that you’re attempting to get around. None of what you’re saying against it contradicts the statement.
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I'm a bit confused here, all I see is a statement of something being a accurate replica of a book, but what book and and what isn't elaborated.

Are there more scans that go into context?
 
Fezzih_007 said:
Can I ask, who actually would gain Data/Info Type 2? You don't mention on the OP who would scale to It.
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It'll likely be explained in another thread or when this thread comes to a conclusion (agreed upon by staff sufficient amount of staff). Perhaps you could ask on the DB games discussion thread to prevent derail on this thread.
 
Gamin_Yoon23 said:
LIt'll likely be explained in another thread or when this thread comes to a conclusion (agreed upon by staff sufficient amount of staff). Perhaps you could ask on the DB games discussion thread to prevent derail on this thread.
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How exactly is this derailing, the OP is proposing the verse a hax, but is not elaborating who would scale to It or who gets it. Like, is a no-brainer that he should.

Like, imagine I do a CRT to add mind hax to a character, and then I do another CRT just to say Miguel who did the mind hax would get It. That's nonsense.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
How exactly is this derailing, the OP is proposing the verse a hax, but is not elaborating who would scale to It or who gets it. Like, is a no-brainer that he should.

Like, imagine I do a CRT to add mind hax to a character, and then I do another CRT just to say Miguel who did the mind hax would get It. That's nonsense.
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There are tons of threads where something is established but not who scales, please stop derailing. This is a question that could be asked and answered in the general discussion thread.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
So? It still would't be derailing since I asking a question that pertain the CRT. I not blocking the CRT for continuing.
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Brother there’s no need to get defensive everyone just wants the thread to stay on topic. We can get into the discussion of who scales in the future.
 
Back from the storm, now:
Theglassman12 said:
That's not the same comparison when Fu's not making a general steel sword, but a specific time scroll that allows him to collect data for himself. The more accurate comparison would be him making a gun blade more than a normal steel sword as he's doing something unique with this
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Seriously???, again, nothing proved your points that Fu himself made an unique Time Scroll that somehow differ from Time Scroll, the fact that the scan with Fu himself stated it is just a replica went against what you trying to do here
Theglassman12 said:
Your ki blast and sword example doesn't work here when Fu's using something far more abstract than something conventional like energy and a medieval weapon
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1. Saying it doesn't work mean you can't debunk it
2. "Fu's using something far more abstract", wow so, you can't just jump in and say what Fu doing or creating is more abstract thus my comparison doesn't work, provide actual counter-argument, because by your logic, i could also say Ki blast is also abstract and my comparison work as intended, in fact, Ki blast comparison is in-verse example of why your argument using name fallacy doesn't work
3. Finally, you have yet to actually counter my argument, my argument attack at the notion of you using name fallacy to argue that "because Tokipedia have different name compare to the Time Scroll, thus it must be different", which is completely fall under name fallacy, that why i use the sword or ki blast example, so the sword and the ki blast are different compare to time scroll is completely and utterly irrelevant, what relevant is that your line of logic is bad and also baseless which hinged on that Tokipedia =/= Time Scroll because it have different name.

Funny is, you yourself said this on previous DBH thread:
Theglassman12 said:
Other than that, the attack being named "law of time" is an obvious name fallacy and you'd need more elaboration on this to be legit "I can control the laws of time", otherwise Android Saga Vegeta would've had 3-A and higher ratings a while ago because of his "Big Bang Attack".
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With this same argument from your, i asked that is there any actual proof that the name Tokipedia somehow make it different from Time Scroll fundamentally other than just being different in name???. So i guess, you countered yourself then

Theglassman12 said:
I bring up DDLC because you're using real life applications in a video game setting to back up your point on info hax like the Ziku World, something DDLC actually proves with being aware of the media and also showing to directly manipulate information/data like the literal game files themselves.
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i will repeat that, bring up other verse isn't a good counter-argument when nothing between them is similar, what DDLC characters aware are actually us players in real world, real life, this is not the same situation as Ziku World, where we talking about Wifi network shit, not game files
Also as a staff, you keep using whataboutism, bring up other verses into a discussion is going to be a bad precedence, if you keep doing this, then don't complain when others doing the same, just saying, no offense

Theglassman12 said:
@Banjo77 you mean the thing that's designed as Fu's own experiment report?
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Ottavio already replied this point but i'm going to add, this doesn't mean anything, like, he experiment on it, oke?? why he experiment on his scroll mean it is his specific invention that somehow made Tokipedia being fundamentally different from Time Scroll, seriously up until this point, all you did was picking some words sematicaly, then add completely unrelated meaning to them while in reality they mean nothing and not that deep

UnoRebaixadO said:
Couldn't you do this "together"? At least at the time of preparation
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ChoursDropoff said:
Brother there’s no need to get defensive everyone just wants the thread to stay on topic. We can get into the discussion of who scales in the future.
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He already asked the question, no need to clog the thread further guys, and since he already asked, i will answer

Fezzih_007 said:
Can I ask, who actually would gain Data/Info Type 2? You don't mention on the OP who would scale to It.
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TheGodOfICE777 said:
Information Manipulation (Type 2), and Data Manipulation should be restored here’s why
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Like what OP said, restore things back to before they was removed, more specifically, only Time Power going to have these two abilities back, Ki and others power just have their NPI to Info 2 and Data back, that all
 
@Banjo77 nothing you said remotely helps the fact that the time scrolls just magically scale to having data and info hax to begin with. Life and matter also technically exist in the time scrolls, that doesn’t mean time scrolls have life and matter hax too, that’s an extreme assumption to make without any proof.

@Ottavio_Merluzzo if it’s really as limited as you claim it is, then by all means surely anyone who has a time scroll on hand is capable of doing the same thing Fu does right? Which you can prove with any evidence? Cause I’m still waiting for proof that normal time scroll users can do the same exact thing Fu does.

Thanks

An advertisement page for a game isn’t something that’s going to help with this being actual data manipulation, hell none of this remotely helps time scrolls even having data hax in the first place since nothing here shows the time scrolls specifically can control the data/info itself even if I give the benefit of the doubt that this is canonically a thing the characters do with this ziku radar.

@TheGodOfICE777 An accurate replica doesn’t just negate the fact that Fu’s specifically doing something unique to the scroll in the first place. Again can you prove that this is something that’s common for a typical time scroll user or no? Because that’s not really helping your case here.

Also, my argument doesn’t really have to do with the time scrolls nor time power.
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What are you talking about? Your OP literally started by saying you wanted these abilities restored in the first place, also if you’re saying it has nothing to do with time scrolls or time power then this entire Ziku world is a pointless argument to make. Literally the only form of argument you have to restore data/info hax to the pages is Fu’s tokipedia stuff.

So again you’re using the creation statements to back up the characters having info hax, Planck and I already said how this isn’t viable to use for hax/ability scaling so im not going to bother repeating myself in this point.

@Dagoth_OwO do you have any visual showcase on what they even mean by changing the characters? Because that in of itself can mean many things and not just altering someone on an informational level given we have Ginyu “change” with others, but he just swaps bodies via soul swapping. Plus I don’t see how this would remotely be relevant to the time scrolls when no evidence is provided for the time scrolls even manipulating these information itself.

@Vietthai96 so why is his servant treating the Tokipedia like a unique thing in the first place when talking to the time patroller about this?

1. Saying it doesn't work mean you can't debunk it
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That’s… not how debunking works, what? Idk what you’re trying to say here because you’re the one making the example, not me.

Provide a better example than using sword or ki blasts.

Can you quote where did I only argue that because the names of the scrolls are different that they cannot cross scale? Because I never said that as my only argument, I’ve said numerous times that it’s because Fu’s doing something new and unique to it that’s not shown to be a common thing for other users of normal time scrolls. Stop with the strawmanning because it’s not helping you at all.

Oh wow I didn’t know that using an example or a base standard on the site is somehow not befitting of a staff member, is this really the best you got or are you just going to throw shit at the wall to see what sticks? Because if this is all you got for arguments, I’m just gonna get staff to conclude this because it’s clearly going nowhere.

Why did he experiment on it if this is a common thing for time scroll users? The fact he’s experimenting with it in the first place implies he’s doing something unconventional in the first place to find something new.

Either way I’m just going to wait for the staff members to give their vote to conclude this.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@TheGodOfICE777 An accurate replica doesn’t just negate the fact that Fu’s specifically doing something unique to the scroll in the first place. Again can you prove that this is something that’s common for a typical time scroll user or no? Because that’s not really helping your case here.



What are you talking about? Your OP literally started by saying you wanted these abilities restored in the first place, also if you’re saying it has nothing to do with time scrolls or time power then this entire Ziku world is a pointless argument to make. Literally the only form of argument you have to restore data/info hax to the pages is Fu’s tokipedia stuff.

So again you’re using the creation statements to back up the characters having info hax, Planck and I already said how this isn’t viable to use for hax/ability scaling so im not going to bother repeating myself in this point.
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The fact that it is an accurate replica, does quite literally negate the fact that it’s different. I gave an example to the Time ring that Fu created. When Fu creates a replica of the Time ring it’s stated that it’s not the same as the real time ring. However, when Fu replicates the Time Scroll it’s stated to be an accurate replica. You’re asserting that the tokipedia is a unique or different version of the time scroll, but the scans say otherwise. It’s your word vs what the text actually says.

By that I meant that it had nothing to do with time Power governing the Ziku World, but moreso that the mortals created the informational-based world itself. I don’t understand how creating information isn’t information manipulation? Like if you were to create a concept it would be concept manipulation. Although yes, I’m arguing that it’d restore time powers abiltiies, I’m just saying that the argument isn’t solely based off of “time power governs everything.”


Just to clarify this since I see people asking what the book is: The Time Scroll is also called the Book of Beginning and End, hence why we’re using book and time scroll interchangeably.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dagoth_OwO do you have any visual showcase on what they even mean by changing the characters? Because that in of itself can mean many things and not just altering someone on an informational level given we have Ginyu “change” with others, but he just swaps bodies via soul swapping. Plus I don’t see how this would remotely be relevant to the time scrolls when no evidence is provided for the time scrolls even manipulating these information itself.
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Well basically, it changes the people who appear in the Ziku world down to their very race. For example, you can fight random aliens in the Ziku World, but if the Wifi is changed, then the characters appearing in the Ziku World can change to a completely different being like a Namekian for example

Also, I'm fairly certain the Time Scrolls are not being tied to the Ziku World (OP can correct me though if I'm wrong). It's the fact that it's literally a space-time made up of pure data/info, as even the very boundaries of the Ziku World which we can even visually see in the background, are stated to made from the same Wifis that can change the characters as I explained, so affecting this world should qualify as manipulating information or erasing it should be info EE. At worst, Info NPI for Ki via opening holes in space-time in this digital space-time

But regardless, I agree that it's prob the best to just wait for the other staff now since there's no reason to extend this to ten other pages
 
@Dagoth_OwO thanks, that helps elaborate on the ziku data stuff with changing the characters. Out of all of the arguments, the people changing has the strongest argument to have info hax for the ziku world, but in terms of cross scaling this to the time scrolls I'm not seeing it. I've said my piece so I'll just get some staff members to finish this.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dagoth_OwO thanks, that helps elaborate on the ziku data stuff with changing the characters. Out of all of the arguments, the people changing has the strongest argument to have info hax for the ziku world, but in terms of cross scaling this to the time scrolls I'm not seeing it. I've said my piece so I'll just get some staff members to finish this.
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I want to decide the purpose of this scroll and have everything it contains. The word ziku does not seem to be atypical in this case.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dagoth_OwO thanks, that helps elaborate on the ziku data stuff with changing the characters. Out of all of the arguments, the people changing has the strongest argument to have info hax for the ziku world, but in terms of cross scaling this to the time scrolls I'm not seeing it. I've said my piece so I'll just get some staff members to finish this.
Click to expand...
Nobody has ever mentioned any type of cross scaling between Time Scrolls and Ziku World,as far as I remember. The OP can correct me if I'm wrong though.
 
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