- 31,406
- 27,706
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
DB Toei - About Buuhan's Tier 2 rating
- Thread starter Ultima_Reality
- Start date
- Status
- 15,999
- 6,003
If you ignore context surrounding the cosmology, then it is. Your interpretation is objectively wrong, since Dende literally says the walls will break.
- 957
- 1,300
I don't think anyone weaker than Buuhan should be scaled to this, Buutenks alone is hyped up as a massive increase and said to be dimensions beyond what he was before (obviously, even if the literal mentions of dimensions is metaphorical, it indicates too significant of a difference to arbitrarily to give 2-C to anyone via downscaling).
- 31,406
- 27,706
And Vegito said that the Universe would be destroyed by alternate dimensions, not by Buu.
- 6,847
- 6,720
Sounds like he was referring to the Living World there specifically
- 15,999
- 6,003
And Buu, through AP, is destroying multiple infinite sized barriers to begin with, that keep these universes apart.
- 31,406
- 27,706
My point is that he doesn't necessarily have to destroy the entire infinite barrier for the alternate dimensions to start rushing on in. If you have an infinite-sized dam holding back a reserve of water, you don't have to destroy the entire dam simultaneously to open a hole and let water through.
- 6,202
- 16,532
- Thread starter
- #168
It isn't, no, seeing as Dende states that the walls between dimensions will break down, as opposed to how he describes Buu initial usage of the Vice Shout, which was him "breaking through" the wall between dimensions (Boring a hole through it). In other words, the causality is: Buu breaks down the wall between dimensions → The dimensions come crashing into each other (Since there's no spacetime fabric keeping them apart anymore)
The first use of the Vice Shout itself is relevant, as well, since when Buu did that, the RoSaT obviously didn't come crashing through into the normal universe, so for Buu to do enough damage for the separation between realms to be threatened, he'd need to be doing Tier 2 damage regardless.
I think the issue is that you're probably thinking about the dimensions here as being like objects laid over a floor, which isn't really what the anime is getting at, I don't think. In this case, they're more like rooms separated by walls. See the analogy I made in the OP.
- 6,847
- 6,720
He was affecting space-time across multiple dimensions by doing this so its 2-C either way
- 15,999
- 6,003
Do you think that Buu is tearing the same hole he did when he’s in the RoSaT? No, he is literally threatening the entire infinite universe, with other similar sized dimensions. That’s why it’s threatening, because he’s destroying the entire barrier.
- 12,190
- 4,383
well, i think that putting a "destroying the fabric of space time and the barrier that separates dimensions" somewhere in the description would make more clear what the feat is and why it is, but that is just my opinion either way so i will leave the staff to decide this part
- 12,191
- 6,132
@Maverick_Zero_X I noticed that he lost the interesting in DB, this during the time that would request support for an update regarding DB.
Last edited:
- 13,235
- 21,060
Oh btw how do Post-Vegito Division Goku and Vegeta factor in?
Not just because of their better feats, but also because they did those feats while being stated to be unable to even access 1/100 of their power. I’ll send the scan of this when I get home
Not just because of their better feats, but also because they did those feats while being stated to be unable to even access 1/100 of their power. I’ll send the scan of this when I get home
- 8,405
- 1,767
John. That is so incredibly off-topic.
Also if what Clover said is true that'd vastly increase their scaling.
Also if what Clover said is true that'd vastly increase their scaling.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,393
- 3,887
Null was against using that due to it suggesting that Buuhan is as powerful as he is because he has the combined strength of Gotenks and Gohan by a factor of 0.01.
I'm iffy on it, since while it would explain why Goku and Vegeta were hesitant in fighting Super Buu head-on despite being way stronger, it would contradict them going toe-to-toe with the Gohan and Gotenks clones who are confirmed to be identical to their real counterparts in power
- 10,377
- 11,939
Deleted derail again
- 32,835
- 38,108
He blew up the walls that hold the dimensions at bay. Ultimately, there's no difference between the potency of the feats.
You don't need to completely destroy the multiple barriers anyway, just doing anything significant to them would be grounds for scaling. Also, using a dam example isn't the best one to use, because Tier 2 doesn't follow that kind of logic. You can't downscale to lower tiers by being able to scrape off from a 2-C object, you'd still be 2-C but below baseline, given the unquantifiable distance factor and that infinity divided by anything is still infinity. The same is true for Tier 1 and higher. Punching a hole into them however, goes a long way beyond "scraping" and right into "significantly affecting" territory.
Not like it matters, this hole isn't the same kind of damage that Buu does to the actual barriers at hand (It's a lot worse for that), like Milly just told you.
JohnCenaNation
He/Him- 3,220
- 296
So 1% Base Goku = Ultimate Gohan?!?!
- 12,190
- 4,383
okay i am confused now, is the proposal that he messed with space time enough to affect other dimensions or that he destroyed a 2-C barrier that separates them?
- 6,847
- 6,720
If that's the case then they just upscale
- 32,835
- 38,108
The barriers are literally the fabric of space-time itself, and he nuked multiple of them that would cause the dimensions to cascade in and nuke everything, as per what Ultima and Milly have elaborated upon.
- 6,847
- 6,720
- 13,235
- 21,060
- 8,405
- 1,767
I mean considering how Toei has GT Goku get the most ridiculous boosts mid-arc, this... isn't even inconsistent afterwards that Goku's potential just decided to go >>>>>> what it was before.
- 6,847
- 6,720
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,393
- 3,887
The difference being over x100 seems a bit too much tho
Like that would put Kid Buu over two times stronger than SSJ Vegito, who the kais thought could easily handle Kid Buu
Eitherway, it never being stated in the show, means it will probably will be treated like the SSJ Grade 3 Multiplier
- 6,847
- 6,720
I'm talking about him getting the most asinine boosts that go against the narrative (seriously how did he go to Ultimate Gohan level by defusing
)
- 13,235
- 21,060
Well no, because Post-Vegito Division Goku and Vegeta fusing would produce a much stronger Super Vegito
- 957
- 1,300
Toei gives Goku wicked Zenkais out the wazoo, the episode title strongly implies SSJ1 Goku surpassed Kid Buu in their final interaction when he overpowered the Spirit Bomb
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,393
- 3,887
I'm not sure if the Kais would have known that, but even so;
Gohan and Gotenks weren't lightyears away from Goku and Vegeta at this point since Goku believed they could help against Kid Buu and Gotenks did much better against Base Hirudegarn than SSJ2 Vegeta and Goku
- 18,631
- 12,902
Don't forget Wrath of the Dragon, with the Dragon Fist being introduced.
- 12,190
- 4,383
i knew that i was for forgetting something, thank you
- 18,631
- 12,902
- 18,631
- 12,902
Like what?
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,393
- 3,887
Well, Goku did go from being on-par with Rilldo, to easily stomping people x2500/x12500 Rilldo in a few days
- 13,235
- 21,060
Wrath of the Dragon Gotenks could simply be far above Buu Saga Gotenks
- 957
- 1,300
This is the title of the episode:
"Son Goku is Strongest After All!! Majin Boo is Eliminated"
Transcription: "Yappari Saikyō Son Gokū!! Majin Bū Shōmetsu" (Japanese: やっぱり最強孫悟空!!魔人ブウ消滅)
This statement coupled with the Anime original change of Kid Buu actually outright overpowering and taking complete control of the Spirit Bomb and pushing it back at Goku (in the manga he only manages to hold it back for a few moments) and Goku conversely uno reversing it back after Dende restored his stamina makes me believe Toei was going for "final SSJ1 Goku>Kid Buu".
- 8,405
- 1,767
Oh.... Yeah, they did have them physically wrestling with the Spirit Bomb, and SSJ1 Goku pushing the Bomb harder than Kid Buu could push back to avoid getting eviscerated by it.
- 957
- 1,300
Exactly
- 8,405
- 1,767
Yeah if Buu could've pushed the Spirit Bomb back against SSJ1 Goku, he would've, and especially since Goku really didn't even try that hard after transforming He did it with one hand, and the moment he did, Buu couldn't push back anymore and got bodied. It'd have the same logic as the Goku vs Jiren Spirit Bomb push during 109 & 110 of DBS.
- Status
