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Damn you PoC! (Devil May Cry Revisions)

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In the blog there seems to be no direct evidence that higher dimensions are infinitely superior to lower ones, and there is no mention of a Reality - Fiction system.
For now I disagree with the 1-C upgrade.
 
Vietthai96 said:
And is there any evidences to solid that nine dimension is actually higher than 3 dimension, nothing said about these nature of these dimension, it could be just a pocket dimension, or some poetic, flowery word to spice thing up. I don't think you can just toss a description from a loading screen with a line: nine dimension, and force us to believe and accept that those dimension are actually higher than normal 3 dimension.
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That will be your burden of proof to fulfil to disprove HDE.

The soul is called basic 9 dimensional form. Thats as blatant HDE as you can get.
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
That will be your burden of proof to fulfil to disprove HDE.

The soul is called basic 9 dimensional form. Thats as blatant HDE as you can get.
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it actually you guy burden of proof to prove those nature of dimension, not throw out some nine dimension and be done with it

And i'm not even questioning the credibility and quality of those translation on Chinese language
 
Vietthai96 said:
it actually you guy burden of proof to prove those nature of dimension, not throw out some nine dimension and be done with it
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Read the Tiering FAQ to undestand better why demons's souls qualifies for HDE, is all explained there.
Vietthai96 said:
And i'm not even questioning the credibility and quality of those translation on Chinese language
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Np, you have all the right to do that, and is was already requested to be translated in the translation request thread some time ago before the CTR anyway.
 
Theglassman12 said:
I still don't really buy the high godly stuff given it's not backed up anywhere in the games and in fact contradicts it. Nightmare in DMC 1 dies when its soul is gone, Griffon Nightmare and Phantom in 5 dies when their soul is gone. Dante in mission 12 of DMC 3 has to carry a neo generator, which is literally sucking his soul away, the mission description literally says "reclaim the bridge before the soul is lost forever". And if you don't succeed in the mission Dante dies while in Devil Trigger form, so he can die by his soul being gone. There's also the Sin Scythe demon stated to kill Dante by reaping its soul, and he has to escape from death in order to not die. So them being able to come back even when their soul is gone is BS when the series has shown the opposite.
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Honestly this could just be attributed to crazy hax taking over, like Sevil said. Dante explicitly has Regen Neg as well.
 
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Considering the the magnitude and controversy of this CRT I think it's best to wait until @Ultima_Reality, @DontTalkDT, @Elizhaa and/or @QuasiYuri give their full feedback (Tier 1, canonicity of PoC, Regen, etc) before drawing any concrete conclusions however both sides make understandable points but this CRT really needs more mod input tho.

Personally I'm indifferent to how DMC is rated (It could be tier 6 or tier 1 and I wouldn't blink an eye) however it is pretty shaky (at best) for any verse to get massive upgrades via an obscure mobile game that hasn't been officially translated (iirc) and may or may not be truly canon too (Even tho it revised to be "canon" awhile back). It doesn't seem like revising a verse to more "accurate" at it from my PoV but I digress.

Count me as neutral for the time being.
 
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Based on what I've seen here and the arguments. I am shifting to being fully neutral.

Disagree with AP until we get more stuff from the game, but I agree with 9-D souls (At least until the wiki-wide Souls CRT takes place), hax and the regen upgrade. I'm in the same boat as Dienomite.
 
KLOL506 said:
PoC was already confirmed canon in this CRT fam. There's no debate to be had here. Period.
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BlackDarkness679 said:
They made a thread on canonicity and was accepted way back
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It seems others were still contesting it on this CRT but if they truly don't see PoC as "canon" then can always make another separate CRT.
KLOL506 said:
Based on what I've seen here and the arguments. I am shifting to being fully neutral.

Disagree with AP until we get more stuff from the game, but I agree with 9-D souls (At least until the wiki-wide Souls CRT takes place), hax and the regen upgrade. I'm in the same boat as Dienomite.
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A respectable stance to have.

Also I edited my original comment to be more clearer.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Np my communication skills don't leave much to be desired.

Has anyone contacted the others that are also knowledgeable about tier 1 yet? (If so already then we just have wait then).
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Elizhaa was another Tier 1/0 knowledgeable individual who was informed of this stuff months before this CRT was fashioned. I've contacted her again just in case.
 
Lightning_XXI said:
One thing that DMC doesn't lack is feats
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What? DMC has literally no actual universal feats outside of Mundus (and the fruit stuff from DMCV, but for that to be a feat it requires us to accept several statements)

Everything that is above the universe that Mundus created relies heavily on statements as opposed to actual concrete feats. There is also the fact that this is pretty clearly against author intent going by how Dante is portrayed in all of the games, but this forum does not care that much about this so it does not matter
 
MrBallins said:
What? DMC has literally no actual universal feats outside of Mundus (and the fruit stuff from DMCV, but for that to be a feat it requires us to accept several statements)

Everything that is above the universe that Mundus created relies heavily on statements as opposed to actual concrete feats. There is also the fact that this is pretty clearly against author intent going by how Dante is portrayed in all of the games, but this forum does not care that much about this so it does not matter
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Are you seriously just gonna ignore Argosax, Pluto and Sparda?

Argosax can literally fuse the two universes just by existing (Which was repeatedly confirmed by DMC2 and its guidebooks and the 3142 Graphic Art Books to be genuinely happening, as the merger caused time paradoxes to happen left and right and was warping the human world itself into an unrecognizable mess).

Mundus fused the two universes once, after whacking Pluto. The Qliphoth Tree can do the same exact thing- fuse the Demon World and the Human World.

Both Pluto and Sparda have splitting feats. Pluto split the original universe by ramming his spear into it, which resulted in the two halves (The Demon World and the Human World), both becoming their own two separate universes with their own separate spacetimes, confirmed in the manga. This is a hard feat, not just a statement, it's the literal origin story of the two worlds.

After defeating Mundus, Sparda then split the fused universe back into the Demon World and Human World, once again just like Pluto had done it before, undoing Mundus's work of fusing the Demon and Human Realms (Which Mundus did after eating the Qliphoth Fruit and killing Pluto). Again, this isn't just statements. It's literally what kickstarts the world of DMC as a whole.

I suggest you check this thread before you bring up such asinine claims. All your claims regarding "ignoring author intent" and "they are only statements" have been debunked already. I also suggest you check the damn blogs regarding Tier 2 DMC here, here and here, which all went through several CRTs over the last few years to be accepted.

TL;DR, Mundus isn't the only one with a Universe level feat (This is quite frankly a dumb myth), Pluto is the OG universe splitter, and Argosax is the second universe-fuser. Sparda is the second universe-splitter, while being more famous than Pluto. So I'd suggest you stop derailing any further on this topic.
 
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It pains me to see people still believing that DMC's ratings are from Mundus "only feat"

Anyway, we are losing track of the actual debate now, I'm currently waiting for Tony and Glass posts about Sevil's first rebuttal before picking a side on the Tier 1 shenanigans

About Hax, I guess there are no more questions ?
 
MrBallins said:
What? DMC has literally no actual universal feats outside of Mundus (and the fruit stuff from DMCV, but for that to be a feat it requires us to accept several statements)

Everything that is above the universe that Mundus created relies heavily on statements as opposed to actual concrete feats. There is also the fact that this is pretty clearly against author intent going by how Dante is portrayed in all of the games, but this forum does not care that much about this so it does not matter
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Playing the games through casually, at first glance seeing dante struggle with the most simplistic things, and getting injured by absolutely everything would raise eyebrows for sure. There is much about a verse beyond a single entry though, or ignoring the fact things like Dante getting injured all the time is to showcase his regen.

Granted i'm not a fan of PoC in the slightest, it's not released or translated, and always struck me as a one off fanservice thing for the Chinese Audience from the very first trailer. It is weird how DC/Marvel have different canons because different authors=interpretations, but this project made by an entirely different company and in a different language on the mobile platform is being composited.

Regardless, if people want to push for this stuff, I agree with glass here. Very clearly jumped the gun on this one, and saw a potential tier 1 upgrade without enough context. Wanting your verse to be tier 1 is digging a hole and ignoring the rope imo, but go wild I guess.
 
Scottycj256 said:
what the **** just happened???

1-C Devil May Cry???
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Yeah.

Seems like most people are torn on AP (I myself disagree with AP being upgraded. Too vague, Sevil Jumped the damn gun)

But almost everyone (Myself included) is fine with hax, higher-dimensional souls and regen (Only Glass disagrees with Regen and Tony is neutral on it but agrees with 9-D souls and hax).
 
Just for the record I think some miss the point that about the scan of poc mentioning about the higher dimension and despite that it didn't refer by how many dimensions is higher given that the souls that confirmed to be nine dimensional forms originates from that "higher dimension" and seems some also forgot about chen statements about knowing everything beyond dimensions and before anyone argue that's he for the alternate universes
1, he doesn't know about it and he's not the one to send dante and beryl there
2, he is very knowledgeable person about demons and the demon realm as he have researched about them his whole life

So his statement collarates more with the higher dimension scan that poc was referring to tho I'm more open to "possibly" than full on rating
 
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Deadguy said:
Just for the record I think some miss the point that about the scan of poc mentioning about the higher dimension and despite that it didn't refer by how many dimensions is higher given that the souls that confirmed to be nine dimensional forms originates from that "higher dimension" and seems some also about chen statements about knowing everything beyond dimensions and before anyone argue that's he for the alternate universes
1, he doesn't know about it and he's not the one to send dante and beryl there
2, he is very knowledgeable person about demons and the demon realm as he have researched about them his whole life

So his statement collarates more with the higher dimension scan that poc was referring to tho I'm more open to "possibly" than full on rating
Click to expand...
 
Deadguy said:
Just for the record I think some miss the point that about the scan of poc mentioning about the higher dimension and despite that it didn't refer by how many dimensions is higher given that the souls that confirmed to be nine dimensional forms originates from that "higher dimension" and seems some also about chen statements about knowing everything beyond dimensions and before anyone argue that's he for the alternate universes
1, he doesn't know about it and he's not the one to send dante and beryl there
2, he is very knowledgeable person about demons and the demon realm as he have researched about them his whole life

So his statement collarates more with the higher dimension scan that poc was referring to tho I'm more open to "possibly" than full on rating
Click to expand...
Not sure, I'd still say to wait until the game gives us more info. At least, for AP stuff.
 
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