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Shaitan May Cry: Minor Updates

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SuperSonicTL

SuperSonicTL

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Feats:​

Frankly, this serves only to supplement already established feats, nothing more.

Dante:​

It should be noted that Dante already have time manipulation in his DMC5 key but not as detailed as PoC gave out to be. Also yes, this is the same Dante as DMC5 so it should be fine to implement.

Demon Regeneration:​

With the consequence of conceptualization regarding Mind, Energy and Soul of a Demon as accepted here, the currently accepted regeneration across tiers should be upgraded to:

Mid-Godly Regeneration:​


High-Godly Regeneration:​

A reminder that all of these (besides Vergil) are already available on Demon Physiology — I just merely upgraded them by one level.

Votes:​

Agree: @Random-Helper323 @Imaginym (Same opinion as Random) @Planck69 (Same opinion as Random)
Neutral:
Disagree: @Random-Helper323 (recommends Low-Godly for Low and High tier Demons)
 
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Is it High Godly Regen for Nero, due to his Name being gone as its from his Soul?
 
Apotheosis69 said:
Is it High Godly Regen for Nero, due to his Name being gone as its from his Soul?
Click to expand...
vsbattles.com

Devil May Cry: Metaphysical Revisions (Part-1)

Names Explanation Names are a component of one's soul that can reshape reality on a whim if altered as we know. These names precedes the universe they operate under and was there since the creation of Demon World altogether so it has the range to effect the Underworld itself. Now frankly, these...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Yup.
 
Apotheosis69 said:
Is it High Godly Regen for Nero, due to his Name being gone as its from his Soul?
Click to expand...
Names would be removed or altered under normal circumstances when it comes to mergence but Nero's case more associates with his soul and consciousness which have its own evidence to possess metaphysical properties akin to that of concepts.
 
@SuperSonicTL
Is there such thing as limited passive time stop on this wiki?
In regards to the Dante SDT section, as it shows it's only 5 seconds.
Though it should be possible for Dante to continously enter SDT to keep the time stop up indefinitely seeing how you brought up him having infinite power.
EDIT
Thinking of that, the 5 second limit shouldn't matter, so disregard what I said. Also considering quad S supporting Dante going in and out of SDT freely.
 
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Netoriman said:
@SuperSonicTL
Is there such thing as limited passive time stop on this wiki?
In regards to the Dante SDT section, as it shows it's only 5 seconds.
Though it should be possible for Dante to continously enter SDT to keep the time stop up indefinitely seeing how you brought up him having infinite power.
EDIT
Thinking of that, the 5 second limit shouldn't matter, so disregard what I said. Also considering quad S supporting Dante going in and out of SDT freely.
Click to expand...
That's just for gameplay purposes honestly.
 
SuperSonicTL said:

Feats:​

Click to expand...
These would be hyperbole on their own. They're basically just supporting evidence at best, as you said.
SuperSonicTL said:
Click to expand...
This does help with Mundus' dimension and knowing about it. This is fine.
SuperSonicTL said:

Dante:​

It should be noted that Dante already have time manipulation in his DMC5 key but not as detailed as PoC gave out to be. Also yes, this is the same Dante as DMC5 so it should be fine to implement.
Click to expand...
Should be fine.
SuperSonicTL said:

Mid-Godly Regeneration:​

Click to expand...
This seems to be describing Low Godly. What makes this Mid Godly?
SuperSonicTL said:
Click to expand...
This does sound like it fits Mid Godly.

Update: still Low Godly, I think.
SuperSonicTL said:

High-Godly Regeneration:​

A reminder that all of these (besides Vergil) are already available on Demon Physiology — I just merely upgraded them by one level.
Click to expand...
This seems fine, with a specification that the regeneration is High Godly for body, mind, soul and concept.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
This seems to be describing Low Godly. What makes this Mid Godly?
Click to expand...
Seems like he is arguing this scan as regen from mind part also, Since our Regen page tells:

Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of one's body, mind, and soul.
Random-Helper323 said:
This does sound like it fits Mid Godly.
Click to expand...
Beside, if this is not valid I don't see how this valid also, since scans just tell they have better version of low level demons regen.


SuperSonicTL said:
Mid-Godly Regeneration:
Click to expand...
I guess if Mid Godly Regens gets pass, Sparda devils should have Mid Godly Regen negation
 
Random-Helper323 said:
This seems to be describing Low Godly. What makes this Mid Godly?
Click to expand...
It's through the fact that how Demons are able to continuously come back to life as long as their fundamental aspect (soul) exists within Demon World so destroying their physical bodies within Human World wouldn't stop them from coming back by any means.
 
SuperSonicTL said:
It's through the fact that how Demons are able to continuously come back to life as long as their fundamental aspect (soul) exists within Demon World so destroying their physical bodies within Human World wouldn't stop them from coming back by any means.
Click to expand...
Yeah but can they comeback after mind erasure? Cuz mid godly is complete erasure of soul, body, mind
 
Hecky2222 said:
Yeah but can they comeback after mind erasure? Cuz mid godly is complete erasure of soul, body, mind
Click to expand...
No but I presume mind and soul doesn't exist in the conventional sense so destroying their physical body technically does the job.

It's essentially a combination of type 8 immortality combined with conceptual based regeneration so take that how it is.
 
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SuperSonicTL said:
No but I presume mind and soul doesn't exist in the conventional sense so destroying their physical body technically does the job.
Click to expand...
But our Godly pages tell that we treat them as meta aspect

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other non-physical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.

Meanwhile

Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of one's body, mind, and soul.
 
I'd say Low Godly for low level demons, Mid Godly for high level demons, High Godly for the god level ones described.
 
I might make a post on explaining why @SuperSonicTL is defining Mid Godly for Low Level Demons and High Godly for High level and above demons. Just as a refresher this is the same scenario as when we had regen from PoC.
Back then Soul contained Concept, Info Memory etc everything. And regenning from Soul basically means skipping Low Godly and direct Mid Godly as Soul is more fundamental than Type 1 Concepts.

Similar case here again, Soul is independent and invulnerable to Type 1 Concept(Name) nuking so Soul is again kinda in the same ballpark more Abstract or AE1 as when we had PoC.

So similar principles for Mid Godly and High Godly
 
Hecky2222 said:
But our Godly pages tell that we treat them as meta aspect

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other non-physical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.

Meanwhile

Mid-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete erasure of one's body, mind, and soul.
Click to expand...
But there are levels to metaphysics, no?

How can one even begin to describe the difference between Low and Mid Godly when both essentially uses abstract ideas to regenerate back from if we are really going on that path? You can make it Low Godly and it will still work like Mid-Godly so it doesn't really matter to me much but whatever.
 
Tanin_iver said:
I might make a post on explaining why @SuperSonicTL is defining Mid Godly for Low Level Demons and High Godly for High level and above demons. Just as a refresher this is the same scenario as when we had regen from PoC.
Back then Soul contained Concept, Info Memory etc everything. And regenning from Soul basically means skipping Low Godly and direct Mid Godly as Soul is more fundamental than Type 1 Concepts.

Similar case here again, Soul is independent and invulnerable to Type 1 Concept(Name) nuking so Soul is again kinda in the same ballpark more Abstract or AE1 as when we had PoC.

So similar principles for Mid Godly and High Godly
Click to expand...
The low level demons don't have scans in the OP for regenerating anything but their bodies. I could see High Godly working for the ones whose souls are erased based on this, but that's not listed for high level demons in the OP.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
The low level demons don't have scans in the OP for regenerating anything but their bodies.
Click to expand...
I referenced that on the previous post. It's a nomenclature thing really. Mid Godly is for when a character regens after all it's non fundamental aspects(body, mind, soul) have been destroyed. Since in the case of DMC Soul is as fundamental or even more than Type 1 concepts and it also contains Mind/Memories as explained in the Soul blog.
Another example to understand is how if a verse has say info 2 and no soul and they regenerate from complete destruction of body and regen from Info 2 then we index that as Mid Godly.

About the High tier, High Godly stuff, @SuperSonicTL can provide more scans
 
The idea is that souls = concepts

Regenerating from your soul is akin to regenerating from a concept and thus mid godly. Low level demons do this when sending their souls/minds/consciousness towards the human world while high level demons do this with the devil arm process

People like Nelo and Nero have regenerated without either of those and thus high godly
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
The idea is that souls = concepts
Click to expand...
Technically they contain governing concepts.
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Regenerating from your soul is akin to regenerating from a concept and thus mid godly. Low level demons do this when sending their souls/minds/consciousness towards the human world while high level demons do this with the devil arm process
Click to expand...
The issue is they've only lost their bodies. Their souls are still present and contain all of the relevant things.

I'm actually torn between Low and High Godly for the high level demons based on this, to be honest. Although reforming from their Devil Arm form, their soul, seems Low Godly. I'll wait for more input. The fact that the low level demon's soul is actually located in the demon world and it constantly reforms new bodies unless killed despite their separation sounds like a different ability rather than regeneration.
Tony_di_bugalu said:
People like Nelo and Nero have regenerated without either of those and thus high godly
Click to expand...
High-Godly for them is fine.
 
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I disagree with the PoC stuff being added into main profile

The infinite power Dante statement doesn't work cuz mf gets tired in almost every game after some big fights, if he had infinite power he would never get tired

Dunno about Sparda. Mundus thing IS already in the profile.

Random-Helper323 said:
Technically they contain governing concepts.

The issue is they've only lost their bodies. Their souls are still present and contain all of the relevant things.
Click to expand...
The thing is that the soul is the concept or similar stuff.

Regenerating from the soul = regenerating from a concept

Would it be Low-Godly? probably but bonkers since its based on a concept

Would it be mid-godly? If the soul is erased and they come back its high godly directly

dunno mid godly kind of is the only fitting one since its better than low godly but worse than high godly

Random-Helper323 said:
I'm actually torn between Low and High Godly for the high level demons based on this, to be honest. Although reforming from their Devil Arm form, their soul, seems Low Godly. I'll wait for more input. The fact that the low level demon's soul is actually located in the demon world and it constantly reforms new bodies unless killed despite their separation sounds like a different ability rather than regeneration.
Click to expand...
High level demons still have soul regen feats so it would be the same as low level demons but on a higher level for in verse reasons.

Also not every low level demon soul is in the demon world, some like the ones in the scans used are directly summoned and gain a body after a few moments.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
I disagree with the PoC stuff being added into main profile

The infinite power Dante statement doesn't work cuz mf gets tired in almost every game after some big fights, if he had infinite power he would never get tired

Dunno about Sparda. Mundus thing IS already in the profile.


The thing is that the soul is the concept or similar stuff.

Regenerating from the soul = regenerating from a concept

Would it be Low-Godly? probably but bonkers since its based on a concept

Would it be mid-godly? If the soul is erased and they come back its high godly directly
Click to expand...
Low Godly if their body is erased and they regenerate from their soul. High Godly if their soul is destroyed and they still come back. Bonus points when their name is confirmed gone too, as is the case here.
Tony_di_bugalu said:
dunno mid godly kind of is the only fitting one since its better than low godly but worse than high godly
Click to expand...
A middle ground isn't always the best option. It fits it the worst out of the three.
Tony_di_bugalu said:
High level demons still have soul regen feats so it would be the same as low level demons but on a higher level for in verse reasons.

Also not every low level demon soul is in the demon world, some like the ones in the scans used are directly summoned and gain a body after a few moments.
Click to expand...
Low Godly for anything that does that, High Godly if their soul is regenerated as well.
 
I actually agree High Godly for Sparda brothers but don't know why we are trying to give Mid Godly for Low level devils

in Sparda Devils scans it is already stated mind, soul(hence concept), body erasure so pretty straightforward

I don't get where we are picking Mid Godly, High Godly for low level devils

Low-Godly: The ability to regenerate from the complete physical destruction of the user's body, instead restoring it from their disembodied consciousness, whether that be their soul, mind, some other non-physical aspect of themself, esoteric or metaphysical energy, or something else.

Low Godly can regen from metaphysical aspects as well

Mid Godly is complete erasure for mind, soul, body. But since soul is concept in DMC this complete erasure would fit to them for High Godly

High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history, their information (Type 2), their concept, or something else along those lines. For any aspect to qualify, destruction of that aspect must cause erasure of the character in some form, and evidence must exist that the character cannot exist without that fundamental aspect existing as well. In addition, it must not be something that regenerating the body, mind, or soul would ordinarily restore. As such, take care when evaluating Type 3 concepts, and aspects that are not sufficiently expanded upon to make a judgment will not qualify.

And here we are. High Godly should regen by mind also.

I can totally see that for Sparda devils and Mundus scans, but can someone please explain how low level devils regenerate from mind/memory erasure also?
 
Hecky2222 said:
I can totally see that for Sparda devils and Mundus scans, but can someone please explain how low level devils regenerate from mind/memory erasure also?
Click to expand...
Because they don't have mind/memory and soul in the traditional sense. In DMC it is all part of the Soul itself which is equivalent to or even more abstract than Type 1 Concepts. They don't have an inbetween layer or aspect, it's just the Body and the Soul which is infact the most Fundamental Aspect.
I already explained that in my previous post
 
Tanin_iver said:
Because they don't have mind/memory and soul in the traditional sense. In DMC it is all part of the Soul itself which is equivalent to or even more abstract than Type 1 Concepts. They don't have an inbetween layer or aspect, it's just the Body and the Soul which is infact the most Fundamental Aspect.
I already explained that in my previous post
Click to expand...
I read meta blog and can't find where? Metaphysical blog covers they have memories, souls, names whereas souls > this two. Sure it says soul is superior to names and memories but do we have proof for Soul = Memory
 
@Tony_di_bugalu I agree that erasing the soul and then coming back is High Godly in this case due to the souls also containing their base concepts. The problem is that the low and high level demons only have listed feats of regenerating their bodies while their souls remain unaffected.
 
I was asked to comment here.
I don't really know DMC, & skimming the thread, it seems like @Random-Helper323 is trustworthy, so I'm willing to tentatively agree with what they have agreed with so far, although it seems like the issue about regeneration levels & metaphysics & distinction of mind, body or soul involvement, so I would independently suggest that maybe that should have its own CRT, as it may be a complex issue that could bog down the resolution of the other matters of this thread.
 
bump

So this would be some kind of super "Low-Godly Regeneration"? Since it deals with conceptual stuff from the get go and all that
 
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