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Damn you PoC! (Devil May Cry Revisions)

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Neutral on tier 1, will give an opinion after reading the conversations a bit more.

Everything else seems fine
 
Sevil Natas said:
it was stated verbatim to take place between DMC 3 & 1 by the ppl making it here & here they're in Chinese so you gotta translate to read these articles. it was also called an official DMC game more times than I can count
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It taking place between dmc 3 and 1 is precisely why it being canon makes no sense, as some of these enemies here that were encountered for the first time later in the timeline, are still here somehow, despite not running into them until later on. And even on those websites, it only seems to be called official in the sense that it's ip licensed, not a canon story or anything, that's even how the dev's described it, and again, official=/=canon, unless like, Xenoverse is canon to DBZ for instance

Capcom supervising the story isn't really said like, anywhere either, there's just mentions of them having a quality standard that they checked the game for

The game not affecting the main timeline much doesn't prove its canon either

And it being called a sequel is like ??? Why do you assume they meant chronological and not just sequel as in another game

Anyway the evidence for the stats seems fine, but if that's all the proof there is for it being canon that a yikes. Since it's already accepted as canon and I'm too lazy to make a thread on it being canon, and the stuff from the game seems fine for the upgrades at a glance, I'll agree
 
Paul_Frank said:
It taking place between dmc 3 and 1 is precisely why it being canon makes no sense, as some of these enemies here that were encountered for the first time later in the timeline, are still here somehow, despite not running into them until later on.
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Dude, did you not check the statements I and Deadguy showed there?

Dante explicitly refers to having fought those enemies before, especially in the case of Cerberus and Nevan.

Also enemies like the Magma Spider, Griffon and Shadow in PoC have no proof being the same exact ones as in DMC1, heck, they don't even look the same as in DMC1.
 
Yea they have many statements of him facing them before it heck even pluto himself mentioned about vergil getting trapped in the demon realm clearly referring to the dmc3 and the lava spider and griffon are clearly not the ones from dmc1 because 1, they can't talk unlike the ones from dmc1 and 2, they are clearly just part of their species which is again not new and it's canon as it's introduced in dmc5 already

But let's stop talking about this because this isn't the topic here and it only derails nothing more
 
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I'm having a real hard time taking yall seriously at this point...

Since this reaches territory I'm not familiar with (Tier 1) I won't be debating so don't bother messaging me about commenting on this. Good day.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
I'm having a real hard time taking yall seriously at this point...

Since this reaches territory I'm not familiar with (Tier 1) I won't be debating so don't bother messaging me about commenting on this. Good day.
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Understandable this kinda of topics can a little bit sensitive at times
 
Deadguy said:
Yea they have many statements of him facing them before it heck even pluto himself mentioned about vergil getting trapped in the demon realm clearly referring to the dmc3 and the lava spider and griffon are clearly not the ones from dmc1 because 1 they can't talk unlike the ones from dmc1 and 2 they are clearly just part of their species which is again not new and it's canon as it's introduced in dmc5 already

But let's stop talking about this because this isn't the topic here and it only derails nothing more
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Agreed.
 
regarding the stuff about canonicity. if you don't agree with it. then please do so on another thread, because PoC has been accepted as canon for a long time now. and some of the abilities & feats we have on the profiles come from there. so the stuff on this thread isn't the only thing affected by such a change.
 
I am in definite agreement on this being Tier 1C worthy.

Put me as tentatively agree only because canonicity is not yet fully solidified.

To summarize, the Pro canonicity arguments are:

-Referred to as official a few times (which tbf simply means its licensed, as any IP would be to an outside party).

-Said to take place between DMC3 - DMC1.

-Referred to as an 'orthodox sequel' a couple of times via translation. (Though that sounds nice it arguably just refers to the gameplay still being
true to the DMC series as it is still a stylish Hack N' Slash and not some turn based GACHA game like you'd expect for mobile.)

-Phantom and Griffon seem like they are different from the DMC1 versions so likely not a contradiction to fight them just after DMC3.

-Cerberus is explicitly stated to be a different one so its not a contradiction.

The points that don't help the canonicity argument however:

-Never outright stated as canon by Capcom or Nebulajoy.

-Fighting Nevan again. No explanation is given for why Dante would be fighting her again when she already submitted and became a devil arm for him.
It's only acknowledged by him that he gets to beat her twice but no follow through on why that is. Maybe Nevan is a species of demon instead of an individual
one, or maybe she got loose from him somehow, but no explanation given thus far.

-The reveal trailer shows Dante, Lady, and Vergil facing off against Mundus. Obviously the trailer isn't indicative of how the story will play out but Mundus is definitely heavily hinted to end up in this game. Dante fighting Mundus in what seems to be mere days after the DMC3 ending would be a wild departure/retcon.

-When asked on twitter about the game's canonicity, Matt Walker was very cagey in his response and said he wasn't sure he was allowed to comment on what he knows. Which is a bit odd if the game is simply canon...not sure why the hesitation?

If I had to guess on the last point, my guess is the game's canonicity is still up in air. It is supposedly underperforming in China and the story mode is not yet finished. So Capcom might distance themselves from the game depending on how things shake out.


Still, for now I think we should treat this as canon, albeit shaky grounds. I hope someone can get Itsuno to confirm outright that its canon to put any questions to rest.
 
I just I wanna address some points

Well yes it's was never stated how she broke free but that's doesn't contradicts it especially because dante and lady acknowledge that and so it's possibly that pluto have a hand with this after all he's the one who planned for all those events

for the trailers are you serious?these were just baits nothing more because it was made clear that it takes place after dmc3 and in the same trailer dante sword rebellion is unawakened state but when you start the game you you can clearly see it's awakened so yea this just supports it more that those trailers are just traps

As for for matt Walker we don't even know if he helped in the development of this game to begin with
 
But again for the last time THIS isn't the topic to discuss it at all so y'all need to stop with the whole canoncity arguments in this thread
 
Deadguy said:
I just I wanna address some points

for the trailers are you serious?these were just baits nothing more because it was made clear that it takes place after dmc3 and in the same trailer dante sword rebellion is unawakened state but when you start the game you you can clearly see it's awakened so yea this just supports it more that those trailers are just traps
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I said the trailer is not to be taken literally. Read.

But if Mundus is a boss fight in a post DMC3 game like he is hinted to be, then its going to be a huge problem unless its explained, or outright said to be a retcon. It would be naive to think he isn't going to feature in the game in some form when they advertised him so prominently.

Deadguy said:
As for for matt Walker we don't even know if he helped in the development of this game to begin with
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Doesn't matter, he is a producer at Capcom and he should have the autonomy to say if something is canon if it is. Just like how he confirmed that DMC2 was retconned to take place before DMC4.
 
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Vergil also appeared in the trailer yet he isn't part of the storyline so don't get your concerns up

And matt is just the producer of one dmc game and doesn't know things outside of it and when he was asked if the novels are canon or not he answered that's it's canon but only because itsuno told him so meaning he he had no idea that's it's actually canon so until it get confirmed that he had some hand of the development of the game we aren't gonna take his statements even his answer is shaky proofing more that he didn't really helped in the development
 
Also one more thing about nevan thing apparently demons can go to their original form as it's confirmed by balrog a demon who submitted himself as dante devil arm but he said that he will get stronger and will come back for a rematch with dante meaning devil arms can go to their original form but the reason why most of them don't do that is because they don't want to get their ass whooped again by their owner
 
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