- 6,494
- 3,324
It has more than that, the alternate HW and DW, and the thread also seeks to prove Mirror World as a L2C structure aswell
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Damn you PoC! (Devil May Cry Revisions)
- Thread starter Sevil Natas
- Start date
- Status
- 32,743
- 37,888
Oh, right.
Well, it's still 2-C, since including those gives like, 5 separate spacetime continuums?
- 6,494
- 3,324
Let's try to do something the prosecution is being lazy I know
With that and the fact that entering it is a path to another time and space, I see no reason to assume it isn't a L2C structure
This is a very important part on Sevil's side because by being a mere subset of the DW, it helps to showcase some features that higher dimensional realms would normally do against L2C dimensions. Sevil linked the Tiering System page instead of the FAQ, this is what you should read in order to better understand his intentions and how to counter themif you can, of course
Now, you guys might recall my first post here where I said "I'm fine with most of the content, while we don't think exactly the same, in the end we both agree with 1-C and I guess that's the important part", and that's because some of Sevil's blog are wrong for me aswell, but the fact that the Primordial Chaos spawned the demons with Demon World forming them (which, on their true form, that being souls, are 9-D) and that DW has the features mentioned on the blog still leave the blog fit for a upgrade basically on their own. Like I said, I want to see more from both sides
Now, one more thing:
This known lore was only explained in "details" on the manga, and now another secondary canon material goes into that part of the story, why should we assume the manga just "works better" than POC if both have the same canon weight ? Having some details changed over the years does not mean it can't be used, DMC is filled with this on other areas aswell, many verses have actual retcons, they exist, and most of the times they use the most recent version. So even if POC is a retcon to the DMC Genesis, which remains to be debated, it still can work
Yeap, I guess so
The quote very clearly states that it goes beyond the island with "The mirror that reflects this world"
With that and the fact that entering it is a path to another time and space, I see no reason to assume it isn't a L2C structure
This is a very important part on Sevil's side because by being a mere subset of the DW, it helps to showcase some features that higher dimensional realms would normally do against L2C dimensions. Sevil linked the Tiering System page instead of the FAQ, this is what you should read in order to better understand his intentions and how to counter them
Now, you guys might recall my first post here where I said "I'm fine with most of the content, while we don't think exactly the same, in the end we both agree with 1-C and I guess that's the important part", and that's because some of Sevil's blog are wrong for me aswell, but the fact that the Primordial Chaos spawned the demons with Demon World forming them (which, on their true form, that being souls, are 9-D) and that DW has the features mentioned on the blog still leave the blog fit for a upgrade basically on their own. Like I said, I want to see more from both sides
Now, one more thing:
This known lore was only explained in "details" on the manga, and now another secondary canon material goes into that part of the story, why should we assume the manga just "works better" than POC if both have the same canon weight ? Having some details changed over the years does not mean it can't be used, DMC is filled with this on other areas aswell, many verses have actual retcons, they exist, and most of the times they use the most recent version. So even if POC is a retcon to the DMC Genesis, which remains to be debated, it still can work
Yeap, I guess so
Last edited:
- 948
- 1,007
More, since DmC's verse is referenced with Business Suit Mundus, but how many exactly is left vague.
As for my opinion, while I myself made a CRT for 10D, I'm not quite on the 1-C (or even low 1-C), train just yet. I agree with regen, (since Regen in DMC has always been busted, with Vergil reviving from physical nothingness, V stating regeneration is possible from just souls, demons regenerating from death for their prey, and Mundus coming back from being sealed, which given how Sparda was heralded, LIKELY through the Names, which is based on concept manip.) I also agree with 9-10D souls. It's a very clear cut statement, even if you ignore the eight-fold path. Said souls are consistent with the 4D+ layers of hax the DMC crew abuse, so really it's just quantifying feats relevant to this we just put above "way higher than" baseline 4D since we didn't have an actual number to play with or point at. The hax I can understand, but am neutral on, agree with 2-C Mirror Human World, and again, against 1-C until more proof is placed on us.
As for my opinion, while I myself made a CRT for 10D, I'm not quite on the 1-C (or even low 1-C), train just yet. I agree with regen, (since Regen in DMC has always been busted, with Vergil reviving from physical nothingness, V stating regeneration is possible from just souls, demons regenerating from death for their prey, and Mundus coming back from being sealed, which given how Sparda was heralded, LIKELY through the Names, which is based on concept manip.) I also agree with 9-10D souls. It's a very clear cut statement, even if you ignore the eight-fold path. Said souls are consistent with the 4D+ layers of hax the DMC crew abuse, so really it's just quantifying feats relevant to this we just put above "way higher than" baseline 4D since we didn't have an actual number to play with or point at. The hax I can understand, but am neutral on, agree with 2-C Mirror Human World, and again, against 1-C until more proof is placed on us.
- 10
- 3
I don’t think it will be canon. Based on what I’ve heard about it so far, it seems like it will be a loose adaptation of the games events.
- 1,315
- 791
Anyone that still has a problem with universal DMC just has a hate boner for the verse. Tier 1 tho? If DMC becomes tier 1, this will be Tony's greatest defeat. It will make Shinza getting cucked look like a joke. Tony better not fail.
- 32,743
- 37,888
BASED
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,892
- 5,797
A 7A in shinza would still solo the said 1C DMC
Aside that is there a concrete proof for the said higher dimensions transcending lower ones?
A higher dimension big enough to contain a lower one is not proof of transcendence
- 3,759
- 1,621
Size is also a major factor to prove higher dimensions .
- 923
- 439
- Thread starter
- #211
i suggest you read the standards before making such comments
Tiering System FAQ
A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...
vsbattles.fandom.com
also cut the damn spite, this thread has nothing to do with shinza.
- 290
- 152
We already have proof for the sizes since in the manga the demon world was stated to be an endless darkness and the human realm to be only a ray of light and before go around saying "it's vague" we already have the mirror dimension scans to support it
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,892
- 5,797
I suggest you alsoread it welli suggest you read the standards before making such comments
Tiering System FAQ
A: Whether higher-dimensional entities qualify for such high tiers or not depends on several different factors, which may take root both in and out-of-verse. To explain this situation, we must first clarify what exactly being higher-dimensional entails. In a way, yes, though not how most would...
; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.
So where is your proof that the lower one is infinitely smaller?
Tag the guy that brought shinza into it i was just replying
Last edited:
- 923
- 439
- Thread starter
- #215
a literal ray of light to endless darkness. and not to mention infinite DW has been accepted in the wiki for a while now.
- 455
- 215
Vergil will steamroll through most of them. But that's for another day.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,892
- 5,797
This is oddly misleading and does not mean transcendence let me quote what you sent word for word
"Unending darkness, a crucible of chaos. But even to that primordial existence there came a ray of light. The universe was eventually split into two. The darkness became the realm of demons and the light became the domain of mortals"
While there may be more context but if you are basing your transcendence on this statement alone then it does not qualify atall
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé
He/Him- 3,706
- 2,074
I think he was talking about how HW is infinitely smaller? not sure tho
- 923
- 439
- Thread starter
- #219
crimson & ultima disagree with you there. I'm not making standards up. I've made sure the stuff I argue fit the standards by asking the most knowledgeable ppl on tier 1 on the site
- 290
- 152
What's misleading about it? You asked if there something that proves if the demon realm is infinitely larger and so there is this statement from the manga
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,370
- 943
Exactly, this is my problem with the the 1-C stuff.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,892
- 5,797
And nothing in that statement says its infinitely larger
Like this is the statement
And aside from the fact that unending darkness in this context can mean there was notjing but darkness until.someone said let there be light and boom came a ray of light.
So yes it does not mean infinitely larger point in case also wiki does not treat endless as infinite
And even exchanging endless with infinite in the statement wont still change anything and wont mean that Higher dimensions are infinitely larger than lower ones.
And stop strawmanning my argument i never said you made the standards up, i said the statement that you are trying to use to pass up higher dimensions is infinitely larger than lower ones does not mean transcendence.
And if ultima and crimson disagrees they can try and tell me how this statement means that the darkness is infinitely larger than the light or that the lower dimensions are infinitely smaller
- 44
- 5
Even if the ray were infinitely smaller, which I doubt because everything sounds poetic, that light managed to produce a separation, something that an infinitely smaller object could not do, also the human world is not as such a ray but something that was born as a side effect of the separation. and no product puts the human world as infinitesimally smaller to say that the latter agrees is not an argument when the latter is as human as you and me
- 6,127
- 4,205
- 290
- 152
This is so wrong it's not even funny that ray didn't even created them nor it separated the realms it was always part of the demon realm until pluto separated them
- 44
- 5
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/566426072380604426/823944498342002699/devil_may_cry_3_1_6.jpg
Really false it never mentions that the ray of light is infinitely small it only mentions a ray of light
why not
Really false it never mentions that the ray of light is infinitely small it only mentions a ray of light
why not
- 44
- 5
the world is born of darkness Unending darkness. A crucible of chaos. But even to that primordial existence there came a ray of light. The universe was eventually split in two. The darkness became the realm of demons... and the light became the domain of mortals. the scan goes against that notion clearly mentions that lightning was the culprit for the separation and subsequent creation
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,370
- 943
Based on how souls were called 9 Dimensional and how they return to a higher Dimension within the demon realm, there are lower Dimensions like 8D, 7D etc, there might even be higher dimension higher than 9 which is why I believe the OP fixed at least 1-C, all this within the demon realm. Now the OP didn't really give the difference between dimensions. What the OP is using to justify those dimensions is that the living world is a ray of light in the Demon realm, a feat that can be performed by another low 2-C structure, this doesn't really justify those higher dimensions in the demon realm
- 6,127
- 4,205
Dude...basic english comprehension.
An ant is small compared to Elephant.
An Elephant is big compared to an ant.
Both mean same ******* thing.
Darkness being infinitely big compared to Light....is same as saying light is infinitesimal comapred to Darkness.
Not that I agree with Tier 1, but those are my personal reasons....but your arguements sir are completely wrong.
No where is that stated.....you are completely misrepresenting the statement.
- 290
- 152
It's one of the criteria needed to justify for it since you have prove that a for 4D structure to be a a fraction of a totality since the human world is referred to as light as it literally say as follows in the same scan "the light has become the domain of humans" and there is even the mirror dimension scan for that
- 290
- 152
It only says "The universe was eventually split in two" it didn't say that the ray of light is the cause of it especially when you know when the light which is the human world didn't immediately split as later on it explains what happened in the time gap between the creation of the human realm and it's separation from the demon realm plus it was already accepted in the wiki to be pluto feat so make another thread cause we're not gonna debate about it here
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,892
- 5,797
Whether the light is the cause or not, the statement itself does not qualify for transcendence and does not mean the darkness is infinitely larger than the light
- 923
- 439
- Thread starter
- #233
no? the darkness isn't "nothing" that refers to the primordial chaos which became the demon world. it even states in the scan when the separation between realms happened. the 2 realms became distinct, the darkness became the DW & the light became the HW. "the darkness" here is referring to the demon world not some literal darkness with nothing in it so yeah clearly you don't know the verse.
and where on earth did you get that last part? both terms endless and Infinite are synonymous
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,892
- 5,797
I am just explaining how it still wont qualify for transcendence and nothing in the statement still proves whether taken literally or figuratively.
As long as we are still talking about the same statement then no it does not mean transcendence
I will like if you will call the knowledgeable staffs that said it does btw
Endless into 1B =/= infinitely into 1B
Countless into 1B =/= infinitely into 1B
E.t.c.
Ask the instant death fans, they will explain more
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,370
- 943
For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object etc.
I disagree with this and I already gave my opinion on this
A mirror that reflects my image doesn't hold my mass, or volume yes it will reflect the world but that doesn't mean that the world is a subset of it.
Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,370
- 943
- 6,127
- 4,205
Dude...its called mirror world because it resembles HW and accessed through mirrors which are portals.
Its not even identical beyond that....its all completely warped and demonised version of HW. Dante literally spends good part of DMC1 running around and fighting demons in said world. Why the **** would it be just a reflection??
- 923
- 439
- Thread starter
- #238
okay i'll call them. ultima & crimson saw no problem with the blog regarding the evidence for qualifying to tier 1. why we need to get their opinions again is beyond me.
the demon world is already accepted to be infinite anyway, so ask the DMC supporters that did that CRT.
- 6,127
- 4,205
That's a complete misinterpretation.
Its called reflection of world.
And the stuff about difficult breathing in cave is just the area he recently arrived in from its contemporary part in HW.
Just because it talks about some particular area doesn't mean doesn't mean it is unreal or imaginary cave.
- Status
