Curse Mark and Sage Mode Multiplier Removal CRT

[LordTracer]

We can still get Sage Naruto to island level, we just need to upgrade minato to large mountain.

Nobody wants that except for you

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with the OP lol.
Truth be told, I can still argue for the multipliers, but I have realized how much scaling issues they've caused us. They were actually being restrictive, and resulted in weird convoluted scaling. As it turns out we're better off without them in the grand scheme of things, so yeah. This has my seal of approval for whatever that's worth.

I agree with this, but it still feels weird to not give them a Multiplier of some sort.

 

[Loyd]

i agree
man i hate how multipliers and amps get misconstrued.

 

[theultimate5105]

His power varies over time. This is literally going from A to 10xA in the span of less than a second. He should've violated Naruto then.

the Alternative is saying that SM is literally no boost at all which is contradicted by everything

Well it's different but it's definitely not on your side to justify 10x

there Is a reason why we don’t use one shots in scaling chains because they are inconsistent. Naruto and Sasuke were taking hits fine from Jubbito who is able to fight the MAS these are both the same difference in power but huge differences in how they are damaged

Regen and stamina have nothing to do with durability

its important for tanking hits and being able to still move

No proof he didn't do his max.

The fact that he could still fight someone in a massively stronger form then what you think could fight him

Suigetsu thought he could beat Sasuke and Kisame when he got the sword.
It's definitely not

So you are accepting the sword>Suigetsu=<Ay>the sword

AP for the collision, lifting for the pressure.

so it is both

I just see Naruto taking a bunch of hits from someone 10x stronger than him.

and he is getting beat up again by someone not trying to kill him

 

[KingTempest]

the Alternative is saying that SM is literally no boost at all which is contradicted by everything

No, the alternative is that SM is a boost, just not a huge one.

there Is a reason why we don’t use one shots in scaling chains because they are inconsistent. Naruto and Sasuke were taking hits fine from Jubbito who is able to fight the MAS these are both the same difference in power but huge differences in how they are damaged

"Taking hits fine" the first hit they took destroyed their entire susanoo and bijuu mode. They didn't take any hits.

its important for tanking hits and being able to still move

Still move, yes. take hits, no.
Regen doesn't affect blocking, dodging, and deflecting hits

The fact that he could still fight someone in a massively stronger form then what you think could fight him

"Massively stronger form" with feats of being comparable

So you are accepting the sword>Suigetsu=<Ay>the sword

No, suigetsu + the sword ~ Ay > the sword by itself

and he is getting beat up again by someone not trying to kill him

Does not matter because there's no reason for him to change his AP that much. If he was massively stronger he woulda just incapped him

 

[StrawHatArslan]

OP makes sense

 

[Arkenis]

Yea uh I disagree and I mainly disagree due to the other s4 having statements being above Jirobo. Also the databook saying their lvl 2 amps something doesn't mean it doesn't amp other stats. Which clearly lvl 2 amps stats.

Pain swapping with Naruto then reacting to Sm naruto isn't really evidence that sm isn't a massive amp. I think that what's happening is that

1. Naruto in taijutsu is just able to keep up with Pain and Pain isn't trying at full power to blitz Naruto.

2. Pain and naruto can simply scale in taijutsu, Naruto seems confident in fighting Pain even though he knows Pain killed Kakashi, so clearly Naruto in base has become faster but isn't as strong as Pain. Basically Base Naruto~Pain in speed , Sage Mode Naruto~>Pain in speed. It's pretty apparent that upon entering Sm Narutos kick is only noticed when it's up close to Pain and gives the indication spark that Pain notices it then not before.

 

[Kin201]

Yea uh I disagree and I mainly disagree due to the other s4 having statements being above Jirobo. Also the databook saying their lvl 2 amps something doesn't mean it doesn't amp other stats. Which clearly lvl 2 amps stats.

Above him otherwise, but not necessarily raw strength. You're telling me that Tayuya can punch harder than Jirobo or something like that?

 

[LordTracer]

Above him otherwise, but not necessarily raw strength. You're telling me that Tayuya can punch harder than Jirobo or something like that?

She’s directly stated to be stronger than him, so…

Big and bulky brawler character does not always equal the physically strongest.

 

[joshpiece]

I agree with the OP lol.
Truth be told, I can still argue for the multipliers, but I have realized how much scaling issues they've caused us. They were actually being restrictive, and resulted in weird convoluted scaling. As it turns out we're better off without them in the grand scheme of things, so yeah. This has my seal of approval for whatever that's worth.

Basically my thoughts

 

[KingTempest]

Yea uh I disagree and I mainly disagree due to the other s4 having statements being above Jirobo.

This was not the point of the thread

Also the databook saying their lvl 2 amps something doesn't mean it doesn't amp other stats.

It says destructive power is the focus for Jirobo.
1 person says it amps strength, another says chakra

Which clearly lvl 2 amps stats.

Barely showcased, ever.

Pain swapping with Naruto then reacting to Sm naruto isn't really evidence that sm isn't a massive amp. I think that what's happening is that

1. Naruto in taijutsu is just able to keep up with Pain and Pain isn't trying at full power to blitz Naruto.

2. Pain and naruto can simply scale in taijutsu, Naruto seems confident in fighting Pain even though he knows Pain killed Kakashi, so clearly Naruto in base has become faster but isn't as strong as Pain. Basically Base Naruto~Pain in speed , Sage Mode Naruto~>Pain in speed. It's pretty apparent that upon entering Sm Narutos kick is only noticed when it's up close to Pain and gives the indication spark that Pain notices it then not before.

It's not speed wise, it's AP.
SM Naruto is supposed to be >10x Pain but didn't one shot him or do any noticeable damage. Only knocked him back

 

[Arkenis]

Above him otherwise, but not necessarily raw strength. You're telling me that Tayuya can punch harder than Jirobo or something like that?

Yea. She's stated stronger.

 

[Arkenis]

This was not the point of the thread

It says destructive power is the focus for Jirobo.
1 person says it amps strength, another says chakra

Barely showcased, ever.

It's not speed wise, it's AP.
SM Naruto is supposed to be >10x Pain but didn't one shot him or do any noticeable damage. Only knocked him back

Lvl 2 cm almost always shows an amp. If we take the prime example who every other cm is based off of, which is Jugo, we'd obviously have to assume other's cm2 also amps. It wouldn't make sense to say the cms that are based off of Jugos suddenly don't amp stats.

Jugos cm amps stats

Jirobo tells us cm2 amps his power 10x

the other Sound 4 scale above Jirobo

Other S4>Jirobo 10x amp

 

[KingTempest]

Lvl 2 cm almost always shows an amp. If we take the prime example who every other cm is based off of, which is Jugo, we'd obviously have to assume other's cm2 also amps. It wouldn't make sense to say the cms that are based off of Jugos suddenly don't amp stats.

Jugos cm amps stats

Jirobo tells us cm2 amps his power 10x

the other Sound 4 scale above Jirobo

Other S4>Jirobo 10x amp

Ok, I'll target the sound four in another thread then since the girl who plays a flute is physically stronger than the guy who pushes mountain sized characters.

 

[Purgy]

Do the S4 other than Jirobo actually demonstrate an increase in physical stats?

 

[Arkenis]

Ok, I'll target the sound four in another thread then since the girl who plays a flute is physically stronger than the guy who pushes mountain sized characters.

Nice way to argue lifting strength to striking strength....

 

[KingTempest]

Do the S4 other than Jirobo actually demonstrate an increase in physical stats?

They don't even fight physically except Sakon and Ukon, who in their Level 2 admit that they would've died from an attack from and injured Kiba and Akamaru

Nice way to argue lifting strength to striking strength....

Slaps mountain sized characters* since he did that too

 

[LordTracer]

Ok, I'll target the sound four in another thread then since the girl who plays a flute is physically stronger than the guy who pushes mountain sized characters.

Why is Tayuya, the one stated to be the second strongest, always the one targeted and not Kidomaru?

What cognitive dissonance prevents people from understanding that the brawler character does not always have to be the strongest in the group? Hidan, Kakuzu and Kisame are brawlers and they sure as hell aren’t the strongest in the Akatsuki.

Jirobo is directly stated to be the weakest on two different occasions, and Kidomaru is stated verbatim to be stronger than Jirobo. Kidomaru, Tayuya and Sakon are more powerful than Jirobo. There is absolutely nothing that says otherwise beside “haha big man stronk”

 

[KingTempest]

Why is Tayuya, the one stated to be the second strongest, always the one targeted and not Kidomaru?

What cognitive dissonance prevents people from understanding that the brawler character does not always have to be the strongest in the group? Hidan, Kakuzu and Kisame are brawlers and they sure as hell aren’t the strongest in the Akatsuki.

Jirobo is directly stated to be the weakest on two different occasions, and Kidomaru is stated verbatim to be stronger than Jirobo. Kidomaru, Tayuya and Sakon are more powerful than Jirobo. There is absolutely nothing that says otherwise beside “haha big man stronk”

It's cool bro I got it when this thread is over

 

[Arkenis]

They don't even fight physically except Sakon and Ukon, who in their Level 2 admit that they would've died from an attack from and injured Kiba and Akamaru

Slaps mountain sized characters* since he did that too

He did not slap him. He picked him up and threw him.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Why is Tayuya, the one stated to be the second strongest, always the one targeted and not Kidomaru?

What cognitive dissonance prevents people from understanding that the brawler character does not always have to be the strongest in the group? Hidan, Kakuzu and Kisame are brawlers and they sure as hell aren’t the strongest in the Akatsuki.

Jirobo is directly stated to be the weakest on two different occasions, and Kidomaru is stated verbatim to be stronger than Jirobo. Kidomaru, Tayuya and Sakon are more powerful than Jirobo. There is absolutely nothing that says otherwise beside “haha big man stronk”

I think it's because there's a statement that Choji is the strongest person on the Sasuke Retrieval Team.

 

[LordTracer]

I think it's because there's a statement that Choji is the strongest person on the Sasuke Retrieval Team.

And there’s also a statement that Neji is the strongest so like

Also said statement could refer to Chōji’s Butterfly Mode, which Jirobo doesn’t scale to, so

 

[KingTempest]

He did not slap him. He picked him up and threw him.

 

[Arkenis]

I think it's because there's a statement that Choji is the strongest person on the Sasuke Retrieval Team.

Yea it's based on what Shikamaru thinks of the entire group. That's clearly wrong and contradicted. Akumaru can sense strength and thinks the other sound four are stronger.

 

[Arkenis]

Oh he didn't pick him up, he launched him into the air, so what? Is Jirobo mountain lvl now?

 

[KingTempest]

Oh he didn't pick him up, he launched him into the air, so what? Is Jirobo mountain lvl now?

It's cool bro I got it when this thread is over

 

[Loyd]

jesus... when the author states somebody is stronger it doesnt always mean physically stronger.

 

[Arkenis]

 

[KingTempest]

So we're not gonna act like Choji didn't one shot him and prove him wrong w/ this?

 

[LordTracer]

jesus... when the author states somebody is stronger it doesnt always mean physically stronger.

Yeah, let’s not start this cherry-picking nonsense again. If there is no further context given to the statements, and there isn’t, stronger means actual strength and not whatever you randomly come up with

 

[Arkenis]

So we're not gonna act like Choji didn't one shot him and prove him wrong w/ this?

That isn't proving anything wrong, he's worried that it won't be enough, also choji used his butterfly mode.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, let’s not start this cherry-picking nonsense again. If there is no further context given to the statements, and there isn’t, stronger means actual strength and not whatever you randomly come up with

Honestly, that shouldn't be such an issue and yet it is.

 

[Arkenis]

We really shouldn't have this being a problem.

 

[Arkenis]

Even his own people think he's their weakest link.

 

[Arkenis]

So we're not gonna act like Choji didn't one shot him and prove him wrong w/ this?

I gave a shit response before.

A better assessment of what's happening is that Akumaru is smelling how strong Jirobo is and doesn't think the pills will be enough, yes he's wrong, but Akumaru for one can just not the know extent of the pills, two he thinks the pills won't give choji a great enough amp.

 

[Loyd]

Yeah, let’s not start this cherry-picking nonsense again. If there is no further context given to the statements, and there isn’t, stronger means actual strength and not whatever you randomly come up with

it a problem, when we look at the actual feats in the show i hope tempest does a good job addressing it,
its why were picking on tayuya (feats vs shikimaru)
and not kimimaro orochi top dog/feats against k naruto, lee, gaara sand, orochi next body, aids against kazekage.

 

[LordTracer]

it a problem, when we look at the actual feats in the show i hope tempest does a good job addressing it,
its why were picking on tayuya (feats vs shikimaru)
and not kidomaru orochi top dog/feats against k naruto, lee, gaara sand, orochi next body, aids against kazekage.

Do you not know the difference between Kidomaru and Kimimaro

 

[Loyd]

Do you not know the difference between Kidomaru and Kimimaro

oh lol mb

 

[Kin201]

She’s directly stated to be stronger than him, so…

Big and bulky brawler character does not always equal the physically strongest.

Yea. She's stated stronger.

This is Tayuya's stats according to the databook:

And this is Jirobo's stats according to the databook:

Jirobo is 5 whereas Tayuya is 1.

Tayuya > Jirobo in terms of strength???

 

[Purgy]

When one character is said to be "stronger" than another, it can easily be interpreted as just that character can beat the other in a fight, abilities matter and Jirobo is basically a brick, he can't do anything about Tayuya's Genjutsu, Kidomaru's web things or Sakon's merging thing, he'd lose to all three because of that whether he's physically stronger or not.

Of course context matters, but don't pretend that someone being called stronger automatically means they're above them in raw stats, there are other explanations.