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Cosmic Garou runs the Dragon Ball Super Gauntlet

Maitreya said:
Magic maybe not yeah but time skip should probably be doable considering Garou and time travel and all.
Click to expand...
He time traveled by manipulating his own particles (So time travel as a by product of sub-atomic body control) and doing wacky steins;gate pseudo-science using concepts and theories we have even irl. Hit just whips out supernatural not explained time steal.

It's not quite the same, time is involved in both yes, but the mechanics of which and how he did it vary drastically, it is very important to remember that.
 
In my opinion:

Round 1: Beerus wins

Round 2: Garou merks

Round 3: Time skip + phasing attacks will be a problem but I think Garou can take it

Round 4: Garou pulls a Blast and infinitely BFR's Zamasu to deal with immortality

Round 5: Garou can't do anything to Infinite Zamasu

Round 6: Garou merks

Round 7: I believe personally Garou could copy Moro's magic if verses were equalized so he wins

Round 8: Gas can win. IT and his Hakai will be a probem. But I think Garou adapts :geek:
 
Chariot190 said:
He time traveled by manipulating his own particles (So time travel as a by product of sub-atomic body control) and doing wacky steins;gate pseudo-science using concepts and theories we have even irl. Hit just whips out supernatural not explained time steal.

It's not quite the same, time is involved in both yes, but the mechanics of which and how he did it vary drastically, it is very important to remember that.
Click to expand...
This is true however at the same time it still demonstrates time based abilities aren’t out of the realm of things he can do. Especially when his copying ability is factored in.

Hell what if he could simply use his own subatomic particles, to just do what Hit does. Skip like 1 second into the future, again through pseudo science BS. Especially since I guess reversing time to a wider margin would be, I don’t know more exotic? Potent? (Harder to do?). So I don’t think it’s an unreasonable claim to say he can copy time based abilities.
 
Actually, that's literally what it means. He didn't actually manipulate time, he didn't actually effect time, he didn't copy anything to do with time. He did a very specific pseudo-science theory that even we, irl, have whole thesis' and papers on, by manipulating various quantum particles, you can, in theory, send the particles back in time. Garou and Saitama as such, manipulated said particles that compose their body, thus sending the particles that make themselves up back in time.

He can copy things that such atomic particle manip would enable of course. but unfortunately, Hit's ability isn't one such thing. Hit's time skip has zero to do with particle or quantum mechanics. And there's nothing Garou could do with that ability that would lead to him being able to skip or stop time.

Going back in time isn't more exotic, it's just a different ability, and in Garou's case it's the furthest from exotic, it's actually rooted in irl theories unlike Hit's ability.

Garou can't copy time based abilities without further evidence unless said time based abilities can be properly replicated through a scientific method or mechanic that Garou's cosmic ability entails. Which is to say, very few would actually be fair game.

To give you an idea, saying Garou can copy time manip because he went back in time is like saying some can copy death manipulation because they took a knife and stabbed someone to death. The way it actually happened is just as important.
 
How do we determine how long the radiation takes effect? Given that the heroes present could last for a few moments, shouldn't we assume that characters with tier 2 AP can last far longer?
 
Ap doesn't really effect rads, unless you higher D, or have some super wacky physiology or some shit.

Though I will say, it did take beyond just a few seconds for dudes to start dropping. And in the aftermath, a few seconds of exposure was bad, but not so bad they'd just drop dead given MK is able to take them and give them treatment.

Though beyond Zamasu because lmao immortality and probably Beerus (idk he's been next to exploding planets and shit), I don't think anyone here can actually res Garou's shit.
 
garou's copying is kinda vague actually
he has an understanding of all energy in the universe but as for the process of copying, it's unknown completely
like sure he copies nuclear fission by manipulating particles or something, but gravity knuckle and portals are things that he really had no way of getting but got them anyways
so far I've kinda just been under the assumption that it's a combination of reality warping and mimicry, in which case if it really were reality warping then there'd be no reason why he couldn't mimic stuff like magic. That being said, the justification for reality warping to begin with isn't that strong, and we've never had a demonstration of what he can actually do with it without speculation
which is why I'm not really sure if there's even a right or wrong answer when it comes to garou being able to use stuff like hakai and time skip, it's just too vague to definitively index in my eyes
 
It's not vague at all tho, they explicitly say what he can copy, it's just the umbrella of things he can do is absolutely massive.
They say what his mimcry and the mechanics of which entails, so that's what he can copy, not that hard tbh.
Of course, that whole cosmic energy flow shit covers a LOT of stuff, basically anything irl for the most part, and probably anything in his verse that exists as a natural concept.

but gravity knuckle and portals are things that he really had no way of getting but got them anyways
Click to expand...

Except Gravity Knuckle is manipulation of Gravity, something his mimicry covers (one of the obvious abilities actually, that's one of the most obvious things he'd have access tow) and the portals are explicitly noted to be subspaces, which is more pseudo-science bullshit, aka fair game. Both fit under what Garou can copy, there's nothing wrong there.

Also >reality warping

Bucko my dude, please.
 
Chariot190 said:
It's not vague at all tho, they explicitly say what he can copy
Click to expand...
"knowledge of behavior of all forces and energy in the universe" at face value would imply that he could just copy any technique in a universe, which would mean that magic and esper shit would be well within his reach
Chariot190 said:
Also >reality warping

Bucko my dude, please.
Click to expand...
sorry, but it's actually on his profile
as long as it's there it's still a complication of things.
 
the main problem is that you could technically just argue that by having an understanding of all energy and forces of the universe, he could know how to hakai since that blatantly comes from destroyer energy
time skip less so, unless you said that time skip is also just some kind of particle manipulation
I don't actually know if it was stated to use ki or not, if it was just a ki technique then it wouldn't really be out of reach of garou, as ki is a universal energy
 
ZillertheBucko said:
"knowledge of behavior of all forces and energy in the universe" at face value would imply that he could just copy any technique in a universe, which would mean that magic and esper shit would be well within his reach
Click to expand...
Not "a" universe, but "his" universe. There's a difference, no verse equalization doesn't work like that before you ask, there has to be an actual equivalent analog between both verses to get equalized, it doesn't just add shit.
 
Chariot190 said:
Not "a" universe, but "his" universe. There's a difference, no verse equalization doesn't work like that before you ask, there has to be an actual equivalent analog between both verses to get equalized, it doesn't just add shit.
Click to expand...
So you're saying he doesn't have cosmic awareness at all, and god just gave him a lot of knowledge of prexisting energy? That if he were put in another universe he would have no awareness of new energies
 
ZillertheBucko said:
So you're saying he doesn't have cosmic awareness at all, and god just gave him a lot of knowledge of prexisting energy? That if he were put in another universe he would have no awareness of new energies
Click to expand...
Yes actually. That's literally what I'm saying. His cosmic awareness is never said to be constantly updated, gives him borderline omniscience, etc and you said it yourself, "new" energies, if they're new and didn't previously exist in any such way he'd have info on them, well, then he'd have to figure it out the old fashioned way.

All that was said was "hey bro you know how all the flows of energy in the universe work, have fun lmao". But I don't think I need to explain why that really only applies to energies that existed in his world to begin with, and it sure as hell doesn't give him constant updates on powers, abilities and things that just happen that pop into existence whenever. he understands how things work, but again, rooted in his setting, because that's what the cosmic awareness of his actually covers.
We don't even treat legitimate omniscience the way you're treating his CA, actually, read the omniscience page, it flat out says it's only relegated to their own verse.
 
Chariot190 said:
Yes actually. That's literally what I'm saying. His cosmic awareness is never said to be constantly updated, gives him borderline omniscience, etc and you said it yourself, "new" energies, if they're new and didn't previously exist in any such way he'd have info on them, well, then he'd have to figure it out the old fashioned way.

All that was said was "hey bro you know how all the flows of energy in the universe work, have fun lmao". But I don't think I need to explain why that really only applies to energies that existed in his world to begin with, and it sure as hell doesn't give him constant updates on powers, abilities and things that just happen that pop into existence whenever. he understands how things work, but again, rooted in his setting, because that's what the cosmic awareness of his actually covers.
We don't even treat legitimate omniscience the way you're treating his CA, actually, read the omniscience page, it flat out says it's only relegated to their own verse.
Click to expand...
well that's interesting
although, I just think that's an L on the wiki's part more so than it being actually valid
cosmic awareness did seem to update with blast, since nobody with his portals ability was in the universe when garou gained his awareness, indicating that it was acting more like information analysis in that instant
also, garou's mimicry applies to magic non science stuff too, since before becoming cosmic garou he was still even able to develop resistance to psychics
but I guess I'll just wait for when the rules on his copying get normalized and discussed
 
Yeah no, that didn't happen with Blast, just because other people don't know, doesn't mean it didn't exist or was factored in Garou's awareness, especially because we know for a fact that God knows about Blast, Blast has used his powers in setting before, and Garou literally goes "oh lol gravity and subspace gates, neato", which are things he would indeed have awareness about as gravity and subspace is indeed a thing that exists in OPM.

What you're implying transpired simply never happened, not even implied.

Also not how it works, Espers and psychics are just shit that exists in OPM, naturally, as odd as that may sound (And even then, we don't even know if he can copy those, it's ambiguous so it's not exactly a good argument).
And you just proved my point, that wasn't even cosmic Garou, it was just normal Garou going "hey **** you" to Psykos via big dick energy, it had absolutely nothing to do with his cosmic shit, just because another facet of him can do something, doesn't mean the cosmic part covers it too.
That was just an actual display of supernatural willpower and adaption (And mind you, he didn't even copy it, he just powered through it).

I don't wanna be that dude, but Bucko, you're stretching what Garou's cosmic stuff can actually do just a tiny bit beyond what it's actually meant to.
 
Chariot190 said:
Yeah no, that didn't happen with Blast, just because other people don't know, doesn't mean it didn't exist or was factored in Garou's awareness, especially because we know for a fact that God knows about Blast, Blast has used his powers in setting before, and Garou literally goes "oh lol gravity and subspace gates, neato", which are things he would indeed have awareness about as gravity and subspace is indeed a thing that exists in OPM.

What you're implying transpired simply never happened, not even implied.

Also not how it works, Espers and psychics are just shit that exists in OPM, naturally, as odd as that may sound (And even then, we don't even know if he can copy those, it's ambiguous so it's not exactly a good argument).
And you just proved my point, that wasn't even cosmic Garou, it was just normal Garou going "hey **** you" to Psykos via big dick energy, it had absolutely nothing to do with his cosmic shit, just because another facet of him can do something, doesn't mean the cosmic part covers it too.
That was just an actual display of supernatural willpower and adaption (And mind you, he didn't even copy it, he just powered through it).

I don't wanna be that dude, but Bucko, you're stretching what Garou's cosmic stuff can actually do just a tiny bit beyond what it's actually meant to.
Click to expand...
perhaps
maybe I should try to find an instance of garou's cosmic awareness doing better stuff tho, since currently everybody else has just been accepting that it does something outside of his own verse
 
It can copy things outside his verse. Within reason.

The keyword being within reason, if it fits under his umbrella term, fair game. If it doesn't, then it ain't fair game. Not much more to it beyond that.
 
Chariot190 said:
It can copy things outside his verse. Within reason.

The keyword being within reason, if it fits under his umbrella term, fair game. If it doesn't, then it ain't fair game. Not much more to it beyond that.
Click to expand...
you're saying it's absolutely useless against universal energy systems, since one punch man doesn't even have one for it to be equalized
and what exactly is his umbrella term if it's not that he can use the energy of the universe?
 
No, I'm saying it's completely useless against some systems. depends on the mechanics. If OPM lacks anything even close to it, then unfortunately, that very well might be the case.
To elaborate, when they said universal energy (they didn't even say systems, they said flow of energies), they meant things like, gravity, temperature like heat, fission and fusion, kinetic, thermodynamics, quantum stuff, etc. You know, types of energy that exist within the universe? When they said that they didn't mean what you think they meant.

So yes. It actually is completely useless in some, but not all, cases, don't expect Garou to be copying exotic supernatural powers, energy, powers and abilities that can't be replicated via his stuff, etc. Of course, he could replicate some abilities through means he CAN manipulate, even if he can't manipulate the mechanics. Like yeah, he ain't copying fire magic, but he sure as hell can replicate the fire the spell casts. But that obviously has limits to again, being things that his powers would cover, he ain't replicating or mimicking wacky concept hax for example no matter how hard he tries to pseudo science his way to victory.

So yeah magic is a def nope, at least mechanically, he could copy the lava effects and what not, but the funny soul and life hax or the magic on a mechanical scale? Nah.
 
Garou wins all rounds imo with the maximum difficulty being mid diff. Everyone he wins against low diff, ither than against Hit. It would take Garou a while to beat him.
 
Chariot190 said:
No, I'm saying it's completely useless against some systems. depends on the mechanics. If OPM lacks anything even close to it, then unfortunately, that very well might be the case.
To elaborate, when they said universal energy (they didn't even say systems, they said flow of energies), they meant things like, gravity, temperature like heat, fission and fusion, kinetic, thermodynamics, quantum stuff, etc. You know, types of energy that exist within the universe? When they said that they didn't mean what you think they meant.

So yes. It actually is completely useless in some, but not all, cases, don't expect Garou to be copying exotic supernatural powers, energy, powers and abilities that can't be replicated via his stuff, etc. Of course, he could replicate some abilities through means he CAN manipulate, even if he can't manipulate the mechanics. Like yeah, he ain't copying fire magic, but he sure as hell can replicate the fire the spell casts. But that obviously has limits to again, being things that his powers would cover, he ain't replicating or mimicking wacky concept hax for example no matter how hard he tries to pseudo science his way to victory.

So yeah magic is a def nope, at least mechanically, he could copy the lava effects and what not, but the funny soul and life hax or the magic on a mechanical scale? Nah.
Click to expand...
ok, I concede
but I would like to know what you'd think about his absortion being used vs foreign energy systems, would he be able to use something like eating a stand user alive and gravity knuckling them absorbing something and then copying their technique?
 
ZillertheBucko said:
but I would like to know what you'd think about his absortion being used vs foreign energy systems, would he be able to use something like eating a stand user alive and gravity knuckling them absorbing something and then copying their technique?
Click to expand...
Stands aren't a technique, they're a reflection and manifestation of the soul. Garou could probably manifest a Stand given the right circumstances, but it'd just be like anyone else's, he'd get a Stand, one, and it'd likely be suited to further his goal or innermost desire.

Unless Garou can replicate one's souls, it's a no go, he can't just copy them. And then he'd also have to be able to mimic and contain multiple souls if he wants multiple Stands (Don't look up what happens if a single body is forcefully given multiple Stands, it ends badly).

Even then, some Stand powers are outside his mimicry, like he ain't copying the more obtuse supernatural stuff like Whitesnake's weird soul acid transmutation hax or Green, Green Grass of Home's infinitely halving size EE hax for example. Of course, he could replicate things like Bast's magnetism, Weather's weather, or what not, but that's because he can actually copy the ability in and of itself, not the Stand itself.
 
Imo, Garou stats equal beats everyone minus Zamasu and maybe Beerus.

I don't see him beating Zamasu, mostly because I don't think he could, at all, he can't kill him and he can't BFR him. He'd absolutely beat the ******* shit out of Zamasu, but he can't actually get rid of him. BFR doesn't work because multi-dimensional teleportation. Sooner or later Zamasu is gonna land a hit with his spatial dura neg even if it takes years.

Beerus has EE that he can whip out with a gesture, if he starts getting throttled he just needs to look at Garou funny to win. So Beerus can end the fight at anytime he wants, but he has to do it before he gets stomped. Hard to say if he'd pull it off or not. Idk if Beerus could tank the rads, Beerus has tanked planets and shit exploding right in his face and bathed in the after effects so maybe?

Hit tbh I don't think is actually that big a deal, time skip is a nuisance at best that Garou will just adapt to (adapt as in circumvent via skill and predicting), kinda like literally everyone Hit fought somehow managed to do (Goku, Dyspo, Jiren, etc, though Jiren also just said lmao **** you to it). And Hit's wincondition is just basic phasing attacks on internals. Tho that rad manip might **** with Hit unless Hit turtles inside his time dimension and attacks from there exclusively. Hit might get taken out by rads right away, if he can get to his dimension, it's probably still only a matter of time till Garou wins.

Frieza has taken whole planets exploding to the face (Which again, I'd assume outputs some insane rads), but he's also just gonna get the shit kicked out of him after a few seconds so it won't matter.

Moro could and likely would just lead with soul life death hax against Garou, if he does that he wins. Is what I would say but I think the rad manip ***** Moro.

Everyone else I'd say Garou beats, because he passives them or he just ends up bullying them after about 30 seconds.
 
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