Construction/Building Ability

[KieranH10]

So just over a week ago I made this thread that proposes and explains a new ability that the wiki should have, construction. Reasons for the power existing are all explained in full there, but that thread didn't seem to get much attention from staff. So i'll be explaining here and hopefully this will get more attention...

Basically, about a month ago now in this thread, I proposed a new ability that seemed to gain attention, construction. This ability is simply the ability to build structures in a short amount of time.

The reason I believe this ability should exist is because there are many characters in fiction who are capable of performing these feats, such as the Player (Minecraft), and various Lego characters just to name some. With a lot of these characters, building is pretty much their main ability, but their profiles don't even mention it in most cases, and some profiles give different powers to characters in place of this. Such as with The Player (Fortnite), who was given Matter Manipulation due to being able to build structures. This has recently been argued to be due to the player creating the builds seemingly from nothing, but even if this is the case, the power is extremely misleading nontheless, and this ability would help viewers understand the character more.

Now, this ability is not limited to building simple structures but also building objects such as turrets and towers. Potentially even robots, though this could be dicussed if people disagree.

Overall that's the main info on the ability, as I said, more information and the current opinion on the power is here.

There is also a blog showcasing what the power would be here.

 

[Antvasima]

I personally do not mind either a page for this ability or one for trap mastery.

 

[KieranH10]

Ok thanks for commenting

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

You should preferably ask Buttersamuri and some staff members to comment here.

 

[KieranH10]

I've asked a few staff members to comment

 

[Buttersamuri]

Construction I think works. It's sort of like Preparation. But without the needing prep part of it. Which several characters have. I think it would be a sort of variant of Creation as well. However a lesser version as Creation creates something from nothing. Which this would cover who builds something better with something (Building a tower or wall from wood and such). Much like Social Influencing is a lesser version of Empathic Manipulation or Mind Manipulation

Trap Mastery would be a separate version as it doesn't just build traps. It's the skill of building or utilizing them. And it doesn't even require building for certain characters. Some characters like Naughty Bear carry traps with them as their normal arsenal, who can use their environment and other such things to build traps mid fight.

 

[KieranH10]

Agreed, as it says on the blog characters with this ability would likely also be given Preparation due to the nature of the power.

As for creation, characters who aren't limited to resource usage and such would likely be given creation or perhaps matter manipulation as well as this ability, but profiles should likely specify if this is the case.

 

[Eficiente]

I disagree with this. Why have it where we already have preparation? The latter is "it takes you time to do something", so is Construction/Building, having one makes you have both.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Construction/Building would give an opportunity for Preparation. But is not required.

Someone who has Construction/Building could utilize that skill with Preparation. Could build a lot more and be prepared with it. Having preparation isn't necessarily required. Fortnite guy can still build a tower pretty quickly on the spot in the middle of a fight.

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente

Okay. What about trap mastery then?

 

[KieranH10]

Preparation also covers more than just the building side of things, characters with preparation aren't guaranteed to build an entire fortress with the time they're given, most characters (Like Rick Sanchez for example) would likely build a weapon before an entire fortress.

The construction doesn't require Preparation but will most commonly give the character a form of Preparation, The Fortnite Player is a pretty perfect example, constantly building on the go to defend himself. He would be a character who would be given Preparation due to this ability, as he can use construction to build large bases to prepare, as is the case at the end of a lot of Fortnite matches.

Characters who can prepare can very rarely do it on the spot in the middle of a fight, but characters with construction would be capable of this, and it would also be safe to assume they could prepare.

 

[Eficiente]

@Butter You know what the word "preparation" means? (As in deconstructing, not as an offense) Why does anyone would now need to build a lot of stuff or within a lot of time to have Preparation as a power? Who judges how much time/things built need to be to done for someone to have Preparation along side Construction/Building?

That's just dumb, every Construction/Building user has Preparation, just change the wording in the latter page.

@Ant I told Butter my problems with that in other thread, I don't think it will be done.

 

[Eficiente]

Preparation can also be used to improve weapons within combat, and much more. If we modify the wording in the page that can lead to very satisfying elaborations on what characters can do within their profiles.

 

[KieranH10]

Preparation is exclusively when given time, as it is the ability to prepare before a battle.

Construction/Building would be the ability to build on the spot and given the extra time.

Also characters who are given Preparation are often mistaken for what they can do with that time as it is rarely listed, the construction ability would be a definitive "This character can build structures will little to no effort in very short amounts of time." With this, characters who's only form of Preparation is building bases would likely get this power instead of Preparation, as like you've said, preparation covers more fields than just building.

 

[Buttersamuri]

I should note as well. We shouldn't look at it like "building something or setting a trap mid fight is preparing for them." As this was an issue you brought up with Trap Mastery. Because by that logic, doing anything for strategy mid fight qualifies for preparation. Giving thought about what to do next or what your going to do to fight an opponent would be technically preparation. Cause your preparing to do something next. So by that logic. Almost anyone who thinks about em what they will do in a fight qualifies for Preparation.

As brought up above, Preparation is exclusive to Before a battle. Because that's what prep is, and it's what Preparation is meant to be. Doing something like constructing towers or traps during a battle should be a separate skill/Ability. Especially since I'm this case, Many characters can create massive things in short or near instant times due to a supernatural or extremely skilled ability, people who can utilize their environment or what they have into traps, or can build massive defenses or towers mid fight should be their own ability separate to prep due to the fact they don't actually really need prep. Fortnite guy starts a fight and can right off the bat building walls and a tower to defend himself. No preparation pre fight needed.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I agree with the new abilities.

 

[Eficiente]

As I see it, this is pretty dumb.

>"by that logic, doing anything for strategy mid fight qualifies for preparation. Giving thought about what to do next or what your going to do to fight an opponent would be technically preparation. Cause your preparing to do something next. So by that logic. Almost anyone who thinks about em what they will do in a fight qualifies for Preparation."

Are you forgetting that it would be incredibly redundant to do such a thing? Notable things go as Preparation, I can't believe I have to say that.

>"Preparation is exclusive to Before a battle"

Then the power should changed to "Preparation Before Battle". Also that's some bias stuff, we can start normal battles 4kms apart, we can make any rules we want, what even is Battle here? Something that depends on the interpretation that suits it more and varies from user to user, that's what it is.

 

[Antvasima]

So should we improve on the Preparation page instead then?

 

[GojiBoyForever]

No, as Butters and Kieran have stated this is separate from preparing.

 

[KieranH10]

Preparation is exclusively before the battle, hence why every battle must be specified if the character is given preparation or not, if the character is not explicitly stated to have preparation, we assume they get none at all. No matter how long they get to prepare, you can not prepare during a battle, that's just on the spot thinking.

Standard Battle Assumptions:

"Preparation time: None. That means there is no time between the character knowing there is going to be some battle and the point they may start killing each other."

 

[Eficiente]

Even if this becomes a new power, the Preparation page should still be improved, preferably first. That or I was wrong and Preparation is always before battle, which again, is pretty null.

 

[Buttersamuri]

"Are you forgetting that it would be incredibly redundant to do such a thing? Notable things go as Preparation, I can't believe I have to say that."

Creation certainly isn't preparation. Someone with creation powers could create a gun or weapon or trap mid fight. It doesn't mean it qualifies as Preparation. It has good capabilities to help give preparation should they have prep time. But it's an on the spot power that doesn't require prep time to do. Construction fits under the same reasons. Again. This logic makes basically any strategy or move or power you use or think to do as Preparation. If they have notable differences. Then it should be enough to qualify its own page.

Much like we don't want too many powers that could be summed up under a bit more general power (Example. Someone who can make a person angry and someone who can make people Sad. They both qualify well under Empathy manipulation). We also don't want to be too broad. Else people's who's powers and skills are more separate and different don't have that shown.

Batman and Fortnite guy both would have prep. But it doesn't show the fact Fortnite dude can build a tower basically on the spot. Batman could not. Naughty bear and Fred Jones can both make traps. Fred can't do them on the spot though. He needs prep to be able to create them. Naughty carries traps with him and turns his environment into traps. He doesn't need prep to do it.

Being to Broad is as bad as being to specific. This power differs from prep as literally not needing prep. Fortnite dude can react to bullet. He sees a bullet coming and builds a wall with his power to block it. This wouldn't be prep. Else every decision is prep. And that's the issue of being to broad

 

[KieranH10]

I do believe the preparation page should also be improved, but my opinion on this being it's own power still stands.

 

[Eficiente]

Preparation is exclusively before the battle, hence why every battle must be specified if the character is given preparation or not, if the character is not explicitly stated to have preparation, we assume they get none at all. No matter how long they get to prepare, you can not prepare during a battle, that's just on the spot thinking.
Standard Battle Assumptions:

"Preparation time: None. That means there is no time between the character knowing there is going to be some battle and the point they may start killing each other."

This ignores many things, both from what I said and from common sense. Preparation isn't exclusively before the battle, look the meaning of the word. Ever saw a character that can kill targets as soon as the battle starts? Or some that do cool stuff over the time that anyone could use to attack them? The thing you said is very much not the reasons from battles with prep time have prep time. Nor does that note in the SBA matter for the same reasons. I am not saying anything complicated. The "people thinking that how we do things is how everything works" is basically a cliché of the wiki at this point, it made us change the wording of many pages, Preparation will definitely will be one of them.

 

[KieranH10]

Whilst I agree preparation certainly need more added to it's page, I simply don't agree that a character can prepare for something he's currently doing, if a character is fighting and during the battle he tries to build a gun or something, the other character is clearly open to attack him, they're not going to wait for him to build the gun that will kill them. If there's an example of someone preparing during a battle you could give me, perhaps I'd understand what you mean.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Yea. Basically what Kieran Said.

Though I do also agree, preparation page could use some tweaks and such.

 

[Eficiente]

I simply don't agree that a character can prepare for something he's currently doing

Well, just change the notion of what someone is preparing to do. Someone preparing for a test isn't preparing to literally be doing that test as much as it is preparing to approve it. Same with someone preparing for a battle, replacing battle for victory. It really is that simple. Things don't just have one interpretation that matters.

 

[KieranH10]

That's a fair point, but if a character is preparing to end a fight they're currently engaging by killing the opponent, then they're likely using a certain method of combat or whatever that they have previously already learned beforehand. In another case if a character is preparing say, a final attack, say they're charging it up throughout the battle, would the charging up of the attack really count as preparation?

If either of the two examples above are along the lines of what you're saying, then I still believe that the construction ability would be valid as the characters who can build something mid-fight to prepare for an attack later, are still building these structures in a short amount of time. The ability does not aim to replace preparation on profiles in any way, but is simply going to be an ability that will very often come with Preparation simply due to the nature of the power.

I still feel like i'm misinterpreting what you're saying though, sorry if that's the case.

 

[KieranH10]

Bumpo

 

[Buttersamuri]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I would appreciate staff input.

 

[KieranH10]

I'll ask some more staff members to comment.

 

[Antoniofer]

I already suggest that, if the capability itself doesn't have to do with intelligence or wisdom, to create a page called Innate Capability, Field Proficiency or any other more suitable name to cover any profession, skill or capability, so we do not need to create a page for any field capability such architecture, trapping, music, craftmanship, etc.

 

[Antvasima]

@Kieran

Thanks.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm fine with the power as long as it's clear that it's not gained through prep.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Well, both can be used in prep, they just don't necessarily require it. But that could be made clear on the page

 

[KieranH10]

I edited the draft page to note that if the character requires time to build their structures, preparation should be listed instead.

 

[Buttersamuri]

I updated mine to talk about preparation not necessarily being required

 

[Antvasima]

We preferably need more staff input here.

 

[KieranH10]

i've messaged a few more so hopefully they'll be here soon.