Charlotte Katakuri vs. Itachi Uchiha

[KingTempest]

How would he know he is under a genjutsu Even if he sees the future why would he assume his senses are being manipulated? Plus the future he sees would just be itachi standing still not the dreamscape itachi creates in kats his mind

Literally regular sensers can tell that they're in a genjutsu.

zabuza closed his eyes because he knows about genjutsu... Kat dosent the future he sees wont show him the illusions itachi creates

Ok, Kata also has 100 meters range with Mochi everywhere to access.

Since when is COO passive? Thats something they actively have to use atleast its that way for future sight.

Since Asia was sensing people dying out of her control.
Since Sanji was dodging Katakuri's attacks automatically w/out even knowing that he was attacking while trying to check on his wife.
Since Doflamingo and Law could sense people there without trying to.
Since Whitebeard could sense Ace trying to kill him while sleeping.
Since Kin'emon without a head or legs could sense people trying to fight him.
Since always...

When kat wanted to know why pudding fell to the floor the scan showed a closeup of his face and and exclamation points showing he is now using the ability

It means the ability was being used not that he was willingly activating it.

My naruto point was naruto has his 5 senses as well as emotion sensing clairvoyance etc yet itachis GJ can still work on hi,. So Gj can work on people with more then 5

Because sensing in Naruto isn't passive, you need to knead chakra for it and you be ready to sense stuff, and when that happens, they can tell that they're under genjutsu.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I mean I personally think Katakuri is scaled 6-C to High 6-C, but if we're using VSW stats, then Katakuri should win, since Observation Haki hard counters Genjutsu.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

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Sharingan users see the image of an attacker’s next move from the slightest muscle tension in their body. ~ Profile

Observe Opponent's body movements and actions.

See a step by step visualization of their movements.

React and intercept accordingly from their movements and actions.

 

[KingTempest]

I like how everyone just said genjutsu gg without remembering that he has to mold chakra to use genjutsu right...

Itachi starts with Genjutsu from the very beginning, so unless Katakuri knows he’s gonna use it, I’m unsure of how he can see it coming.

He has to mold chakra first... Katakuri doesn't need to prepare.

I’m kinda neutral on Haki canceling out Sharingan precognition, but that in no way makes Itachi’s taijutsu useless, especially since he could fight KCM Naruto & SSM Kabuto, despite both having a pretty potent danger sense.

From what I'm reading, you don't know how Katakuri fights.
He uses his future sense to turn his body into mochi to not be allowed to get harmed. That's what I meant.
Katakuri's punch can hurt Itachi, Itachi's cannot hurt Katakuri's.

Itachi also has far more versatility in his techniques, and I don’t see why he cannot simply burn the mochi away if it comes for him.

Resists fire in his profile.

Coupled with his explosive clones, Susanoo, TB, and YM, what exactly does Katakuri do to him?

Make mochi around his head and punch his face in.
Turn landscapes around him to mochi and buries him.
Turns the land under his feet to mochi and buries him.

Explosive clones get precogged and buries under mochi.
Susanoo gets stuck and/or buried.
Totsuka Blade needs to hit his target, Katakuri would just stay 100 meters away and attack him far distance.
Yata Mirror is flat out useless since it's not omnidirectional and Kata would just hit him in his blind spots with dozens of Mochi hands.

 

[Arcker123]

Itachi still has massive aoe with fire jutsu.

 

[KingTempest]

Itachi still has massive aoe with fire jutsu.

Itachi needs to prepare.
Kata resists fire manip.
Kata has even larger aoe w/ Awakened Mochi. one directional blast <<<<<<<<< omnidirectional punches.

And the ignorance of those saying Haki = Chakra in this fight is sad.

For SBA, they need to be similar in Nature. Haki and Chakra are not similar in nature at all.

Standard Battle Assumptions

The following are the assumptions to be made for battles in versus threads, if no alternative assumptions are specified by the thread creator. Assumptions alternative to these ones can be freely used, are equally legitimate, and threads using different assumptions can be added to profiles just...

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Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses.

Haki is not something that is similar to chakra. Everyone in Naruto has chakra, not everyone in OP has Haki. Chakra is molded via in your body from organs and such, Haki is manifested via willpower. Unless yall wanna give Katakuri organs and new pathways in his body, no.

 

[Rez]

Itachi still has massive aoe with fire jutsu.

Katakuri resists fire and precog and higher speed will also help

 

[Rez]

Itachi needs to prepare.
Kata resists fire manip.
Kata has even larger aoe w/ Awakened Mochi. one directional blast <<<<<<<<< omnidirectional punches.

And the ignorance of those saying Haki = Chakra in this fight is sad.

For SBA, they need to be similar in Nature. Haki and Chakra are not similar in nature at all.

Standard Battle Assumptions

The following are the assumptions to be made for battles in versus threads, if no alternative assumptions are specified by the thread creator. Assumptions alternative to these ones can be freely used, are equally legitimate, and threads using different assumptions can be added to profiles just...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Haki is not something that is similar to chakra. Everyone in Naruto has chakra, not everyone in OP has Haki. Chakra is molded via in your body from organs and such, Haki is manifested via willpower. Unless yall wanna give Katakuri organs and new pathways in his body, no.

And also the fact that human naturally didn't use to possess chakra in Naruto

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

And the ignorance of those saying Haki = Chakra in this fight is sad.

You're exaggerating things, literally only one person claimed that Haki = Chakra under SBA and that person was banned earlier this day

 

[KingTempest]

And also the fact that human naturally didn't use to possess chakra in Naruto

Nah, they all did, they just didn't know how to use it.

God tree can't absorb chakra from people if there's no chakra there to be absorbed.

 

[Rez]

Nah, they all did, they just didn't know how to use it.

God tree can't absorb chakra from people if there's no chakra there to be absorbed.

Probably was absorbing life energy because hagoromo said he shared his chakra with humans

 

[KingTempest]

Probably was absorbing life energy because hagoromo said he shared his chakra with humans

They probably meant "he shared the way to mold chakra" with humans.
Chakra is intertwined with the soul, you can't give people a soul.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I mean, if you think about it, Ninja's can sense the other people, and none of the normal known 5 senses could do that, so it's very possible that genjutsu can bypass observation haki.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

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IMO that depends on the type of Genjutsu

Genjutsu that just affect perception and senses doesn't stop someone from fighting by relying on their sixth sense, as they can still move.

Whereas, Genjutsu that does the above plus immobilize the target makes a sixth sense helpless if they can't move anymore.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

IMO that depends on the type of Genjutsu

Genjutsu that just affect perception and senses doesn't stop someone from fighting by relying on their sixth sense, as they can still move.

Whereas, Genjutsu that does the above plus immobilize the target makes a sixth sense helpless if they can't move anymore.

Agreed

 

[LordGinSama]

Kenbunsoshoko Haki can allow the user to react and fight while knocked out so i don't think Genjutsu is gonna do much to Kata here.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Katakuri kicks Itachi's face in due to speedblitz.

Itachi would clap otherwise, but don't really see how Kata doesn't just blitz him. I'd rate Itachi on par with people like Tobirama, and Minato in terms of reaction speed, and Tobirama got clapped by Wild Pokemon Obito who is only relativistic.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Literally regular sensers can tell that they're in a genjutsu.

Ok, Kata also has 100 meters range with Mochi everywhere to access.

Since Asia was sensing people dying out of her control.
Since Sanji was dodging Katakuri's attacks automatically w/out even knowing that he was attacking while trying to check on his wife.
Since Doflamingo and Law could sense people there without trying to.
Since Whitebeard could sense Ace trying to kill him while sleeping.
Since Kin'emon without a head or legs could sense people trying to fight him.
Since always...

It means the ability was being used not that he was willingly activating it.

Because sensing in Naruto isn't passive, you need to knead chakra for it and you be ready to sense stuff, and when that happens, they can tell that they're under genjutsu.

Karin knows about genjutsu and had reason to think he was using it since he was coming back to life. Kat has no knowledge of GJ he has no reason to assume mind hax is being used

We see katakuri having to look into the future to see why pudding fell if it was passive he wouldnt have to "activate it". Him glaring was the activation he wouldn't have asked the question if it was already being used
The batman guy in wano almost caught luffy offguard before zoro saved him
Katakuri was suprised when luffy caught him eating donuts, if it was a passive ability that would not have happened
Doffy was caught offguard by the red hawk shambles combo if he passivley saw glimpes into the future wouldn't he have seen that coming?


If itachi puts Kat to sleep/immobilizes on him How does COO get him out of that? When Montd put luffy inside the book world of illusions luffy had no idea what was going on. Despite him having a 6th sense the book worlds illusions were still tricking him

Even if you know the illusions are fake the effects will still work on you. Cee Knew he was under a GJ but was still immobilized

 

[Kidkinsey]

Sharingan users see the image of an attacker’s next move from the slightest muscle tension in their body. ~ Profile

Observe Opponent's body movements and actions.

See a step by step visualization of their movements.

React and intercept accordingly from their movements and actions.

yeah they see a image its not just a good guess lol

 

[Ryuga21]

Karin knows about genjutsu and had reason to think he was using it since he was coming back to life. Kat has no knowledge of GJ he has no reason to assume mind hax is being used

We see katakuri having to look into the future to see why pudding fell if it was passive he wouldnt have to "activate it". Him glaring was the activation he wouldn't have asked the question if it was already being used
The batman guy in wano almost caught luffy offguard before zoro saved him
Katakuri was suprised when luffy caught him eating donuts, if it was a passive ability that would not have happened
Doffy was caught offguard by the red hawk shambles combo if he passivley saw glimpes into the future wouldn't he have seen that coming?


If itachi puts Kat to sleep/immobilizes on him How does COO get him out of that? When Montd put luffy inside the book world of illusions luffy had no idea what was going on. Despite him having a 6th sense the book worlds illusions were still tricking him

Even if you know the illusions are fake the effects will still work on you. Cee Knew he was under a GJ but was still immobilized

Haki remains passive if Katakuri is focused and concentrated. Against Luffy it didn't work because he was angry as Luffy saw his mouth (Context, Kata was ashamed by his mouth). This is not going to happen here, Katakuri would have no reason to lose focus or patience in this scenario.

In the Purin scene I didn't get your point. Katakuri was far from the altar, he saw Purin falling but he did not know why, just because he was away from the altar (After all, Purin fell by Sanji's words and Katakuri would have no way of knowing that being so far away).

 

[Kidkinsey]

you do realize luffy caught him eating right? Katakuri wouldnt have wanted that therefore it isnt passive its something he has to activate. We literally see this in the pudding scene we get a close up of his face and him glaring into the future lol.
He could lose focus or patience if itachis mind haxes him into seeing his worse fears or other illusions, If itachis genjutsu causes kat to see big mom dying or somebody catching him eating he will definitely be thrown off

Yes im aware he did not know what was said but like I said above he wasn't passively looking into the future he had to use haki to see that outcome.

 

[KingTempest]

you do realize luffy caught him eating right? Katakuri wouldnt have wanted that therefore it isnt passive its something he has to activate. We literally see this in the pudding scene we get a close up of his face and him glaring into the future lol.

You know there are things called PIS right -_-
I know you didn't use this scene

As justification.

He could lose focus or patience if itachis mind haxes him into seeing his worse fears or other illusions, If itachis genjutsu causes kat to see big mom dying or somebody catching him eating he will definitely be thrown off

Let's remember that Katakuri has 100 meters worth of distance before Itachi looks at him.

Yes im aware he did not know what was said but like I said above he wasn't passively looking into the future he had to use haki to see that outcome.

That's like saying "he wasn't passively breathing he had to use his lungs".
He passively used Haki.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Yes that was the scene I was referring to because its one of the examples of A COO user getting caught off guard

100 Meters isnt 100 KM shisui was able to genjutsu a platoon of mist ninja from across the forest

If he passively uses it why would they show a close up of him using it? He used it right there to ensure nothing would go wrong. Bege also says "you saw the future" implying he used an ability to do so. If he was seeing it 24/7 there would have been no need to make that comment

 

[Karlsefni]

Even with equal energy it would be impossible to use genjutsu in Katakuri, as haki is not an INTERNAL energy that can be manipulated to affect the brain.

 

[Kidkinsey]

occular genjutsu injects chakra into the victim brodie

 

[KingTempest]

occular genjutsu injects chakra into the victim brodie

No, that is Koto, which Itachi does not have. Not all ocular genjutsu does that.

 

[Kidkinsey]

Koto can do it without eye contact but all ocular injects it thats how they catch you
And i KNOW we gonna disagree here but I think the victims kaguya caught in IT didnt have chakra, Im in the camp of hags is the one who gave it out

 

[KingTempest]

Koto can do it without eye contact

Never said that, it says that it needs a short period of time instead of the long gaze that regular ocular genjutsu uses.

but all ocular injects it thats how they catch you

I need a scan that says all ocular genjutsu does that.

And i KNOW we gonna disagree here but I think the victims kaguya caught in IT didnt have chakra, Im in the camp of hags is the one who gave it out

Lies, because the god tree only takes chakra from people with chakra, so the god tree wouldn't do anything to those without chakra, I.E. the victims of IT

 

[Kidkinsey]

Danzo used it on mifune and he has bandages over his eye. Your using the itachi novel right? In that same section it says "I can pour my chakra in even if our gazes arent intersecting, the amount is several times more then a normal sharingan" Meaning base sharingan GJ injects just not as much as MS

It also goes after people who have a life force/vitality which is one reason it didnt target the edo kage

 

[Karlsefni]

Even if it were true, chakra injection would only be possible in those with a circulatory chakra system, which is not the case with Katakuri.

 

[Kidkinsey]

The picture wont load for me but anyway GJ worked on biju who dont have a chakra flow as they are just masses of chakra, u can ARGUE normal genjutsu wont work but occular should due to it injecting and attacking the mind directly

 

[Karlsefni]

Kurama is a chakra mass, but this "mass" has been converted into a PHYSICAL and tangible BODY with chakra properties. This still fits the GJ's limitations, as the kurama's forebrain is made up of chakra that can be manipulated.

I would like to see scan showing that the genjustu injects chakra

 

[Kidkinsey]

yes i know he has an actual body but where does it say he has a chakra circulatory system. Correct me if im wrong but you are trying to imply genjutsu only works inverse due to the circulatory system humans have in naruto

idk how to post scans from this PC but in the itachi novel it says" I can pour my chakra in even if our gazes arent intersecting, the amount is several times more then a normal sharingan"

 

[Jashin]

Katakuri pretty easily

He can precog that looking at Itachi gets him trapped and then fight the rest of the battle with his eyes closed relying on his future sight. . Genjutsu GG is just so far from the truth of what happens that its silly. There is also the chance that his Conqueror's Haki just no sells a mind altering effect, its hard to say when you are mashing two magic systems together. Like if you are being a pedant, Genjutsu fails because it requires the enemy to have chakra to work and Conqueror's Haki ends this at once since it requires that you have Haki to resist it. But I'm going to assume we have an actual contest here so we bend things to work and Itachi has certainly shown enough will power that i don't think he should just fall over.

Ama doesn't work at all. He can shed any part of his body that gets caught on fire and regrow it at no cost forever. Meanwhile using Ama messes Itachi up.

The sealing blade doesn't work at all. Katakuri just lets it phase throw his body.

Itachi's lesser attacks just don't pack the punch needed to even scratch the durability Katakuri has shown.

Itachi lacks a way to end the fight, meanwhile Katakuri has a bunch of options.

First off if Itachi doesn't throw his chakra mecha up at once he is gonna be in trouble. Susanoo is the only thing giving him even a chance to hang on here, and because his higher level techniques are so damaging to Itachi himself he doesn't often open with them. So thats an issue

But lets say he does, and he gets it up before he gets tagged. He is still in trouble since Katakuri can bury him under waves of Mochi. He can control the landscape, he can make mochi arms to punch from multiple directions.

And even if (and its a big if) he can dodge and tank all of that, he'll tire long before Katakuri does. Eventually, in the best case scenario, he gets worn down.

 

[PrinceofPein]

why is speed not equalized? this is a blitz match
it should be remade with speed equalized

 

[PrinceofPein]

And to answer the questions in the thread, genjutsu doesnt really need chakra to work especially MS. and no obv haki is not cancelling illusion, yes they may see that they are put under illusion and react accordingly before hand, but no obv haki doesnt cancel or stop illusion

 

[KingTempest]

Bro this thread is a necro