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Charlotte Katakuri vs Hatake Kakashi

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@William Then how about this... Kakashi is only High 6C with Perfect Susanoo via powerscaling, and even that might not last long with revisions. Charlotte Katakuri is At Least High 6C based on current showing alone. I never said that a single attack won't hit. I'm saying that due to his extreme precognition, which Kakashi has never dealt with before, it will be extremely hard to surprise Katakuri. His Regenerationn is seemingly greater than that of a logias in that Haki isn't even working.

Katakuri will literally see EVERYTHING Kakashi does coming. And he hasn't even shown his full strength yet. Again, he is casually treating Luffy like fodder.

Keep in mind that Kakashi is only at that level with Perfect Susanoo so he'd have to keep it activated the ENTIRE fight.

We need to see him go all out to completely gauge his power. From current showings though, I'd still give this fight to Katakuri.
 
@Sword - You're making shit up now. Hush. Kakashi may be High 6-C, but he has attacks that negate durability, and Mochi is weak against water. Katakuri's Regen is LESSER to a Logia, and Logia users can mitigate the use of haki with their own. Aokiji avoided damage from Jozu, for example. Katakuri simply has superior haki to Luffy.
 
@William Because he can stretch... or am I missing that small detail? Also he has jellybeans. And what makes you think he'll let Kakashi reach the air lol. The fight starts on the ground.

@CinCameron20 Ok first of all, watch your language. We are simply having a friendly debate so there is no need to be rude.

Secondly, I just addressed why Kamui wouldn't help Kakashi due to Katakuri's precognition. Mochi is weak against water, but I'm pretty sure that Katakuri knows his weakness better than anyone and with precog wouldn't allow that to happen.

Third, Katakuri's regen has already gone beyond that of a logias. Regular attacks and Haki attacks aren't phasing him. Even being wet with water doesn't hinder him, it just made him less sticky.

Also, I was in no way insulting your matchup if that was how you took it. Kakashi is very strong, but I just see this fight playing out in Katakuri's favor, that's all.
 
Katakuri only showed something like ten meters range so that ain't helping.

The moment battle start Kakashi can go in flight and Katakuri won't be able to stop it that easily since this guy can just go intangible.
 
@William He is shown to be comparable to Luffy in stretching ability and he himself claims to be a better version of Luffy. Other than that, as the fight goes on I think we'll see the feats that will decide how this fight plays out.
 
Yeah, that's a good point. Kakashi can fly so he has a significant range advantage over Katakuri. While Katakuri is good at flinging jellybeans, he doesn't have any significant ranged attacks.
 
In preparation for an attack. Not as an attack itself. And Katakuri hasn't been shown to be able to stretch as far as Luffy yet. Just because Katakuri claims to be better than Luffy in every way doesn't mean we can take him just at his word.
 
@Damage I say we wait until the fight is over so that we can gauge his power more accurately. As for Kakashi's flight, he can't keep it up forever as it drains him of chakra and Katakuri beats him in stamina via powerscaling from Cracker.
 
Kakashi is very intelligent and wouldn't be throwing his stamina through the pipe illogically, so he wouldn't need to use his Perfect Susanoo unless it is to attack with much power to Katakuri, since it does not matter what Katakuri does or the powerscaling that he receives in DC, he can't harm Kakashi in any way, and have mentioned the limit of 5 minutes of the Kamui, that counts for a single eye so it is possible that having both multiply the time that can be maintained and has not nothing else that Katakuri can do to keep Kakashi even a couple of seconds in a row using Kamui.

The precog is a separate issue, they have mentioned that Katakuri can't be beaten for his ability to see the future but we don't know well how this ability works, if he can see any fact of the near future at all times or only if they are isolated facts random. If such a precog ability is so good as to keep it at all times and see each immediate fact that the user will do then we could talk about an almost invincible character inside One Piece, but that is not the case and there are a lot of characters which are much stronger than him.

Maybe this topic was made too early, has not shown too much of the character so analyzing a battle where he participates is difficult.
 
Kakashi starts off in perfect Susanoo here. As for the Kamui thing it'll only last 5 minutes not 10. Also does Kakashi always start with his BFR? ( Not sure if that'll count since the loser needs to die here.)

This is still important and i need to mention it again. The Naruto Verse is currently going through a revision from what I've heard, so Kakashi might not even be High 6-C anymore.


And Kakashi is 5x baseline high 6-C but as we see Katakuri is flat out stomping people who are 6 x baseline and higher. ( much stronger than Luffy, Cracker, Smoothie, Doffy etc.) And his AP should be even higher via CoA. Katakuri has a pretty decent stamina advantage along with that precog that'll essentially tell him to steer clear of Kakashi. Which he could do with his stamina and mobility advantage ( That Susanoo seems pretty bulky but feel free to correct me on this. )


Also Katakuri will have the home field advantage here since the battle is taking place on Whole Cake.


The better question is who's more edgy? :^) in that factor Kakashi shit stomps. White hair is the ultimate edge.
 
In which part says that Kakashi necessarily starts in Perfect Susanoo? Kamui only lasted 5 minutes for Obito because he had only one eye, and his speed was slower because he only had one eye, having both his statistics multiply.

Thanks for mentioning it, but I don't know because for some reason it seems you say it only in the sense that Kakashi can lower his tier, when you should raise that Kakashi couldn't only fall lower than 6-C but also raise from 6-C to another superior, since if it is a revision there are three possibilities not a single possibility: one that stays in the same, that has a lower or a higher one. So yes, Kakashi could end up being less than 6-C or higher.
 
The profile literally states that he's only high 6-C via Susanoo. Other than that he's town level. If that's not the case then someone should fix that. Once again the profile says he's only able to use it for 5 minutes.


That's what i was implying. Revisions either end up in an upgrade or a downgrade i thought you'd assume that's what i was implying. Which is why I'm saying we should wait. We don't know what Tier Kakashi will be. Might stay the same might not.
 
@Everyone

Kakashi can last 5 minutes of CONSTANT phasing. If he is given a moment of not needing to phase, these 5 minutes will restart. Konan explained that obito could only maintain the intangibility for 5 consecutive minutes, not that his intanhibility as a whole lasted 5 minutes.

So, unless Katakuri has a way of AOE spamming so Kakashi cannot avoid it, just like Konan... he is not breaking through intangibility. Also, the intangibility and susanoo barely drains stamina as shown by Obito and the Uchiha. A Kamui shuriken is larger than Katakuri, btw.
 
@PaChi2 - Considering that most high tier characters duke it out for hours in One Piece, Katakuri spamming attacks for a mere 5 minutes wouldn't be far-fethced.

Doesn't Kamui simply take what's caught in it, and move it to another dimension? If so, Katakuri being completely caught in it will leave him alive. And since I disabled BFR (because Katakuri being left in that dimension until he starves to death is no fu--wait... he can produce Mochi at will... K, he wont starve), Kakashi is going to have to go finish him off.
 
Katakuri spams attacks but can't touch Kakashi cause of flight.

Also, you disable BFR so Katakuri can win bro not because it's not fun. Taking away someone's main advantage in battle is pretty unfair.
 
@Cin could you please count the votes?

Also, I meant that, given that kamui shurikens are larger than katakuri, creating ones large enough to simply kill him is okay.

And no, Kakashi can fly, Katakuri cant. Kakashi can get away from Katakuri's range or teleport or anything.
 
@William - He can still use Kamui to harm Katakuri, he can't just end up warping him away and go like "welp, that's it. I wonder how long it will take for him to starve to death :eek:"
 
Okay. The single only way I see Dogtooth winnig is if Kakashi is unable to touch him. Completely. And I just do not see that happening. Kakashi can just teleport him into the deep sea with Kamui and is otherwise completely intangible. Even if he would need a break, he could just teleport somewhere else with Kamui.

And im pretty sure Kakashi could actually hit him. I mean, the Sharingan is nothing less than physical precognition and if you take NSUNS4 as a hint, this precog can go for seconds at a time. At least, Madara could. The Sharingan enables you to fight enemies multiple times faster than you. Luffy was able to dodge attacks from Katakuri because he, too, had a sense of precog, so I would say the same for Kakashi.

So my vote on Kakashi through Kamui.
 
@Heilergott You forget that Katakuri would see all of that happening an would use his superior speed and reactions to stop all of Kakashi's movements. You also forget he has Awakening. Also, the victory is via death of the opponent so Kamui BFR won't work. Overall, Katakuri has a LOT more ways to kill Kakashi. All Kakashi is really falling back on it Kamui. But even then, Katakuri has At Least mid level regen.
 
Death by Drowning is Death, not BFR. And Speed is Equalized. Besides, Kakashi is devilishly fast himself.

To the awakening. How exactly is Awakening going to help against the Intangible Kakashi? Even if he could turn the entire planet into Mochi, it would not work because he will just not hit. This is what im talking about. The second Dogtooth get's hit even once, he is DEAD. Luffy could dodge his attacks and even hit once or twice, although he did absolutely 0 damage. Kakashi's extremely able in his ability to predict enemy movements. Dogtooths reaction will not help him at all if he and everything in a 20 meter radius just get teleported into the next deadzone. People forget that Kakashi posseses Obito's abilitys and that guy was able to conect to Kaguyas Dimensions. So what will it be? Lava? Acid? Or just simply use his achilles heel and drown him.

If Kakashi really wanted he could just fly uo in the air and slowly sink the entire island Dogtooth is on. And he could not do ANYTHING against him. I would dare to claim that when Sasukes Susanoo can wreck meteors like Salami, Kakashi could sink the island or at least the part with his enemy on it in moments.


EDIT: and what I REALLY want to point out: Katakuri seems to be able to put himself BACK TOGETHER. He has not yet replaced parts of himself. it is yet unproven that he could replace, say, a head stuck in another dimension.
 
@Heilergott First of all, Kakashi is not intangible, I don't know where you got that from unless you mean Kamui, but that isn't even true intangibility, it's momentary until they attack and Katakuri will know when he attacks due to precognition.

Lol, if he could turn the entire planet into Mochi then this wouldn't have been a match up as Kakashi would die pretty quickly.

Gets hit with what? The only two moves that would seemingly do anything to Katakuri can be easily dodged due to precognition.

It's like you keep ignoring precognition and the fact that out of everyone in One Piece, his precognition has been the best.

Really? That's why he used that tactic on Madara or even Kaguya?

Except Kakashi is only town level without Susanoo. And chakra is far from infinite like you are pretending it is. The moment it runs out, he's dead, and that's assuming he didn't die before that. Meanwhile, One Piece characters weaker than Katakuri have fought for days without rest.

And you really think Katakuri is just going to sit there and watch Kakashi? Keep this in mind: Katakuri has not gone all out against Luffy. He's been wrecking him casually. Honestly, he just started using Awakening because he's getting annoyed with Luffy's dodging. And you also brought up Luffy but he has proven to be time and time again an adaptive fighter. And even then, Luffy states that he keeps attacking where he is going to dodge. Don't forget Luffy has precognition as well. This means that Katakuri is about to attack and Luffy sees it coming. Katakuri sees that he sees it coming and attacks him where he is going to dodge. Luffy with precognition sees that coming and avoids it. Don't downplay Katakuri's speed as he, prior to the chapter, blitzed G2 Luffy.

Katakuri is able to make extra arms and legs and alter the mass of his body and he also survived being blown in half and having his face destroyed. I think it's safe to say that he'll regenerate.

Overall, Katakuri shouldn't have too many problems with Kakashi. Not to mention that Kakashi is solidly placed at High 6C, only with Susanoo and that is via powerscaling to Sasuke. Without that, he's town level. Katakuri is At Least High 6C. He could be even higher. High 6C is MINIMUM for Katakuri.
 
Keep in mind that Kakashi can only use his Kamui perpetually for 5 minutes much like Obito. And I find it ridiculous to assume that he can use his Susanoo with no problem considering that normal MS users start suffering from overusing the ability. We've only got to see Kakashi use 3 or 4 attacks before Kaguya was defeated and people keep telling me that he can spam his attacks non-stop with no consequence.

Drowning would be an effective way to kill Katakuri. It's not BFR. But keep in mind that Katakuri has awakening now, and he can likely hide within his own power, given that he's Mochi. It would be pretty tough to land a hit on him.
 
@Cin Susanoo does not drain stamina in any remarkable way. None of the Susanoo users show loss in stamina due to susanoo. The abilities that drain stamina are the other ones.

And kakashi was spamming Kamui left and right, intangibility doesnt cause a significant loss in stamina.

Kakashi can teleport to restart the 5 minutes count. Katakuri is not hitting him bruh.
 
I don't see Katakuri winning either. Kakashi is more versatile and can spam broken techniques quite a lot. Between intangibility and durability ignoring attacks, Katakuri is not surviving this one.
 
Kakashi has been able to hit enemies far faster than himself. Like, say, Kaguya? And that woman has precog with Sharingan and is able to see the world pretty much in slow motion. Should tell you something about the speed of his attacks.

And if Kamui is not intangible i dont know what is. Obito was able to dodge 5 Minutes of continuos explosions with it - you cannot do that if it's not intagibility. The only time Kakashi would need to become tangible is when he would like to physicaly attack, but there is just no need for Kakashi to do that.

In the end every single argument that people make for Katakuri here seems to be "precog". He got hit by LUFFY for Christs sake. Kakashi will be able to predict Katakuri's movement perfectly with Sharingan and to hit with his Kamui Shuriken, even a single second precog will be enough and than the fight is done. Nevermind that nearly everyone in the later half of Shipuuden has some kind of precog. Naruto through Natural Energy, Sasuke through his Rinne and Sharingan. Madara the same. Kaguya the same but even tronger and with Slowmo. Kakashi can work around precog. and you pretty much proved with your argument for Luffy why Kakashi would be able to hit him. Kakashi has the same ability, just more exact.

Both Kamui and Susanoo take next to 0 stamina from Kakashi Obito was able to use if for hours at a time and Sasuke did the same with his Susanoo, as did Madara.

And if Kakashi#s chakra actually were to run out. So? He just teleports away, get's some food and chill's for a while in the Kamui Dimension. Then get's back into the fight. What could Katakuri possibly do against that? He cannot even fly, nevermind hit someone from dimensions across.

Once again, speed is EQUALIZED. How fast Katakuri is does not matter at all. And even if - Kakashi can keep up with Gai in his 6th Gate.

And you still have not explained what katakuri could possibly do against Kamui teleporting massive quantities of water on top of him, or even just in front of him. He uses a devilfruit. If his body gets covered in water is toast.


EDIT: Just read your points again. Really? Kakashi, too, has fought for Days. 4th great Ninja War? First he fought against all the 7 Ninja Swordsmen, then went on an had his fight with Obito, then helped against Madara and THEN helped against Kaguya all while continuosly spaming his Kamui, that, at this point, still took massive amounts of chakra from him. So, really, he has tons of stamina.
 
Kakashi Advantages -BFR and Intangibility

-Teleportation

-More Variety of Skills and Can Actually Use a Water Prison Jutsu and Drown Katakuri (If he wanted too)

-Mind Hax? (he has never really used it much, but he still has it.)

Katakuri Advantages -Higher AP, Doflamingo is at least 650+ Gigatons so this is about a factor of 1.3~ or so.

-Better Precognition

-Better Physical Abilities.

-Better Experience? (Being generous about it here)


.... thats about it. I like One Piece more, but we should all have to admit that Kakashi is pretty haxy and can just defeat Katakuri in a multitude of ways. For instance he could mind break him, use water release, use kamui, and for defense he has teleportation ??? And phasing.

And even Katakuri AOE wont help him here for three reasons.

1. Kakashi can become intagible...duh. 2. Even if he couldnt, he has comparable AOE with his Fire and Water Release. 3. Kakashi is generally a smart guy, he probably would start off with clones and long range attacks, decipher what works or does not work.

All in all, Kakashi should take this with mid diff.
 
@PaChi - ? Sasuke noted how using the Susanoo was painful, and even pondered at how it must have affected Itachi--who was using the complete form (and was very clearly suffering because of it in his final fight w/ Sasuke). Kakashi is using the same level of sharingan in this case, and you can't tell me he is an exception to this weakness, especially when we've only seen him use it for a moment or two.

I understand why Kakashi has major edges w/ your other points though. I'm merely disagreeing w/ the thing regarding Susanoo apparently not being a taxing ability.

@Heiler - You do you, boo. Just don't use fake stats in your vote. "Obito can use it for hours straight" had me giggling a little bit. Obito didn't have Susanoo, ever... and he can only use Kamui for 5 minutes perpetually.
 
@CinCameron20

i do not mean Continuosly. I mean, ready to use. Like he did in the fight against Bee, Naruto, Guy and Kakashi. Or, more profoundly, against the Kiri-Anbu. That fight lasted for hours and he did not suffer a single hit.

Coninuously its around 5 minute with one eye and undefined as of yet with 2 mangekyo.
 
Altaïr Ibn Al Ma'Louf said:
Katakuri for somes reasons above. (Precognition, intangibility...etc)
Click to expand...
Kakashi could BFR him or use water release and drown him. I dont see the latter as a valid reason. And Kakashi would likely open with either or considering he likes to end fights quickly once he knows how an opponents ability works.
 
@Kinkiest Sins Even if Kakashi managed to BFR him (which due to Katakuri's precognition, he probably wouldn't), the match is supposed to be to the death so Kakashi would have to follow him. If Kakashi tries to fight him physically even once or gets trapped in the Mochi, he's finished. Also, Katakuri can use Kakashi's kamui to his advantage by using his jelly beans to bait Kakashi into using Kamui. Or he can take him out with a surprise one. Most of Kakashi's attacks except for Water Release, won't do anything as Katakuri has taken no damage from fire attacks (Ichiji), lightning attacks (Pedro and Carrot's electro), and technically even water attacks (Jinbei), not to mention physical attacks (Luffy). He is tactical and clever with the use of his df (shown when he made ear plugs or stopped Big Father from moving) and has intercepted G2 Luffy easily on multiple occasions. Kakashi isn't hax enough to make this a mid dif fight. I'm sure that once the Luffy vs. Katakuri fight is over, Katakuri will be comfortably above Kakashi. I honestly could see Cracker or Doffy fighting Kakashi, both of whom are weaker than Katakuri.
 
So Kakashi Kamuis him, follows him and watches him drown. So what can Katakuri do? He cannot move in water. And Im not even sure if you CAN take a Kamuiuser by suprise. Obito was able to dodge attacks he did not even see, so I would say that Kamui is a state of beeing, not just an active skill, that has to be intentionally stoped, like when Obito wanted to drag the 4th into the Kamuidimension.
 
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