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Categorically Verbose and Obnoxiously and Unbelievably Long Powers & Abilities Lists on VsBattles Characters Profiles and How To Perhaps Make Them a L

Matthew_Schroeder

VS Battles
Retired
32,315
20,163
Or "The Problem With Long Powers & Abilities Lists" if you are a reasonable human being.


Yes, the title is intentionally unnecessarily big


Introductio
Alright, there is something which I feel has been plaguing our wiki for far too long, and which absolutely needs to be addressed. It is something that many have long begun to realize, and many more actively complain about - myself included - but which no one has bothered to provide a solution for.

Namely, Powers & Abilities Lists that are too. goddamn. long.

We've all seen this time and again, from Umineko no Naku Koro ni Characters, to Kirby to Sailor Moo to Rimuru Tempest to Uchiha Madara to Reinhard Heydrich and so, so, so goddamn many more.

They're aesthetically ugly, they're cluttered and messy, they're a pain to navigate through, they're comically ludicrously, and you'll often hurt your eyes looking upon them. As a poet once eloquently put it:

IT'S TIME TO STOP.

But how can we do this?

Well, we certainly cannot ban long powers & abilities lists, as they are a genuine necessity for some profiles. Specially when dealing with more overpowered cosmic characters whose abilities can best be summarized as "All of them".

But we must do something to fix the current state of such lists, and I have come up with two solutions for the problem. A Short Term solution, and a Long Term solution.

The Short Term Solution: Tabbers
Contrary to the powers & abilities lists this post deals with, this solution is simple and to the point. Hell, it's right there on the title.

Tabbers quickly and elegantly solve the issue of overly long Powers & Abilities list. It's quite obviously really. Much of these profiles have such horrendously long lists because they list all powers for each individual key, often making no distinction or break between them, or repeating the same powers over and over for each key. You can quickly imagine how writing "Superhuman Physical Characteristics", "Immortality (Types 1, 3, 4)", "Reality Warping, "Flight", "Energy Manipulation"... 6 times over in one profile alone would clutter things.

For that, use tabbers and break between keys. For demonstration, look at the profile for the Divine Angels from Shin Megami Tensei. At 30 kilobytes+, it is quite a lengthy profile, and yet its Powers & Abilities list is small and elegant, despite the profile sporting nine keys.

This is because instead of listing the powers all at once, it relies on tabbers to break it down, resulting in the following, as opposed to the sheer obscenely huge wall that would be generated were there not to be tabbers.

So these can be applied to all profiles that have overly long powers & abilities lists and are broken up into multiple keys.

But there's a second solution, more difficult to apply, but necessary all the same.

The Long Term Solution: A Cultural Change
Often times, these profiles will have such long powers & abilities list not out of necessity. Not because the character legitimately has so many different and varied powers. Not because they all need to be explained in such excruciating detail. Not because there's no two ways about it and there's nothing we can do. No.

The sad reality is that most often, such profiles will have these lists because the makers of the profiles want it.

They want their favorite characters to be as overpowered and jacked as possible, and since it's very difficult to do so through tier upgrades, as wank there is easily perceptible, it's far easier to do so with powers and hax. And so, we get ostentatiously huge lists that explain every single profile in the most inexcrutable minute detail even when there is no need, and the abilities are perfectly self-explanatory, while also adding superfluous and unnecessary profiles that repeat themselves.

The end is result is a powers & abilities list that's so big that literally no one will want to read it, and the character will artificially be considered haxed and OP.

This is a sad reality, but it is something that must be admitted and faced. This wiki is to stand for accuracy, not favouritism, and as such people need to have unbiased reason when making profiles. Listing every powers and ability of a character is nice, but is it really necessary to explain everything in a single paragraph list?

Why not do so in the "Notable Abilities / Techniques" portion below, which is what many profiles do. It's much more visually elegant and pleasing to read, and doesn't clutter the profile.

On a similar level, do you really need to list every single profile the charactr has ever shown in the history of everything. If you make an RPG character, do you really to list every single spell, skill, perk, ability and equipment item in the game on the profile?

No, of course you done, it's overbearing and superflous and it's done solely to add fat onto the profile, to make him artificially bigger. We're at a state where it's practically a cold war to see who can make the bigger and longer profiles here, and it's honestly sad.

"Brevity is the soul of wit", once said William Shakespeare, and I'm inclined to agree. Less is more. Quality should be prioritized over quantity, and that applies to not only number of profiles, but the content of individual profiles.

We must take that in mind throughout the future of VsBattles in more ways than one, but it can start with powers & abilities lists.
 
100% Agree, especially for profiles that have like 3-4+ tabs all with different powers with only a little line dictating which key has which powers, it makes the profiles extremely hard to read and understand
 
Personally, I prefer when the justifications for powers are actually listed in that section and I don't have to go searching for specific members who know or looking through a bunch of obscure threads.

Perhaps introducing a references and footnotes section could alleviate some of this? I've seen it work elsewhere.
 
I legit agree with this. Power and ability lists can get too long, and I myself have difficulties reading profiles and deducing which form is which. I myself have edited several profiles that end up getting covoluted often, and arranging them in the order they happened can also turn into a pain in the ass sometimes.

But what about characters whose powers don't change with stronger transformations?
 
This seems quite the hell of a revision

I'm 100% sure this would be impossible, if not night impossible, to make dou to his sheer size
 
Wokistan said:
Personally, I prefer when the justifications for powers are actually listed in that section and I don't have to go searching for specific members who know or looking through a bunch of obscure threads.
Perhaps introducing a references and footnotes section could alleviate some of this? I've seen it work elsewhere.
It's called "Notable Abilities / Techniques".
 
Kepekley23 said:
@Dragon
I disagree and think the title should have been more practical instead of wasting people's good-will to actually click the thread and read the OP just for the sake of a quick joke.
Then it served it's purpose.

Think the title is overly long, obnoxious, and irritating for its own self-congratulatory self? Well, congratulations, you now know how I feel about overly long powers & abilities lists.
 
Not all powers are like a notable ability or technique, though. A lot of stuff on say the Oryx file doesn't really ever get a name to it, it's just a thing he can do.

And I was talking like people put links to where their feats come from in some sort of section, so things can be verified.
 
The other people have a point tho. This is a massive revision that will affect the whole wikia, and thus can result in severe consequences.
 
I guess I should do the latter option with Barney? (Aka, put all the explanations in another tabber)
 
Hmm

I have a problem with the long term, and, simplicity is, you're just saying other people want to flaunt their overpowered stuff... Again.

Seriously, how many times have you just said "oh it's the people they want these to be the so strong and yadayayda"

I feel like you paint everyone that isn't you in a malicious light just because you can't see their intentions so you end up pulling a Lovecraft and fill in everything you don't know with evil and malice.

I have not met a single person who wants to sport a massive wall of text. In fact, the common reaction to someone having a massive wall of text is using the Lord's name in vain and saying things like "what have i done" and yadayayda.

I've seen this with King's pet project, I've especially seen it with Bambu's Magnum Opus, and just in general, culture already doesn't like walls of text.

This is generally a good idea, but, I'm real tired of you just blaming the wanking masses or whatever's going on in your head when you make posts like this.
 
Agree with the threads porpuse and kep both.

A question, would someone need to leave a keys section if the short term thing was aplied?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Don't bring Barney into this.
I normally wouldn´t, but as explaining his powers is a must to prevent controversies...

Anyways, I agree with this.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
I've been using "All previous" for several of my characters to try and cut abilities over forms/tabs. If we want to do tabbers I'm fine with it and will edit my big bois to comply with it.
So this only affects the Powers and Abilities section, huh?

"All previous abilities" work just fine IMHO.
 
Antvasima said:
I prefer if we use "All previous abilities, plus..." as a system for several statistics keys.
The problem is, a lot of profiles still have overly huge lists even with that.
 
Antvasima said:
I prefer if we use "All previous abilities, plus..." as a system for several statistics keys.
I imagine separating them into different tabbers is done more for visuals than anything. A reference to which powers they still posses would be needed, since several characters would have differing abilities for every key.

As far as I understand, this is simply to make it less offputting to look at, much like the title.
 
Therefir said:
What we can do with characters like Hajime Hinata? Only one key have most of his abilities and I don't want to get rid of the detailed explanations for the sake of appearance.
Put the detailed explanations in the Notable Abilities / Techniques portion of the profile.
 
I kinda like longer profiles, as they explain why how the power works.

Just saying Reality Warping or Power Nullification is meaningless and leads to NLF and wank, but explaining exactly how the Reality Warping or Power Nullification works helps make me understand the powers of said being.

And while most of the abilities should be mentioned in the "Notable Abilities / Techniques" section, sometimes a character can just do something without having it be called an ability, and it wouldn't accurately fit in said section.

I think Methuselah's page shows a good balance between explanations in the "Power and Abilities" section and the "Notable Abilities / Techniques" section.

I agree with the tabbers being implemented to help with getting rid of clutter though.
 
The issue seems to arise more in characters that gain and lose abilities as opposed to only gaining. For example, when I made some changes to the Officio Assassinorum profile.

Each key is a different type of assassin. They do not all share abilities. "all previous" doesn't work there.

As a result, the P&A section looks pretty bloated, but I didn't really know any other way to format it as the previous way on several occasions confused people, to the point where I got complaints a couple times in chat.

Using tabbers for P&A I think is a good idea in these cases.


However, I'm not on board with not listing explanations and justifications for stuff in the P&A section, as often times, a power won't ever get a name. How does that get classified undet notable abilities/techniques then?
 
I imagine that if there is no one ability you can constrict the explaination into, it would simply need to stay on there.

But for Hajime, it should simply be moved to the differing ultimate abilities he has.


There is no perfect solution here afterall.
 
The Causality said:
For kirby, it's going to be complicated...
he has only one key lol
The second part would aply, and if that doesn' help... too bad. We can't make everything perfect.
 
However, I'm not on board with not listing explanations and justifications for stuff in the P&A section, as often times, a power won't ever get a name. How does that get classified undet notable abilities/techniques then?

You don't need for it to have a name. Goku's profile explains things like "Ki", "Martial Arts", and "Saiyan Physiology" on his notable attacks / techniques.

When I work harder on The Elder Scrolls profiles, they will explain things like "Magic", "Restoration / Mysticism / Destruction / Alteration / Illusion Magic", "Tonal Magic", as well as the inherent nature certain classes of deities have.
 
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