• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bleach's Greatest Fanfic

Status
Not open for further replies.
I will not say that admins are biased or do not like bleach. But the logic of the admins is extremely wrong here, in my opinion, for example, you say that aizen has ee because it is 4B, but other 4B characters do not, but other 4B characters resist because it is 4B. This is an inconsistent and extremely ridiculous logic wherever I look. aizen gained this power thanks to hougyoku, just like hado no 90's spacetime bending thanks to hougyoku, other characters also use hado no 90 but it doesn't have the same ability because it's an ability given by hougyoku. Likewise, aizen is a special talent given by ee side hougyoku, quincy girls who touch Ichigo as much as or even much stronger than aizen should be deleted from existence. should have been deleted. Don't you think there is absolutely an incredibly big logical error here?
 
He has EE no matter the decision. We're deciding on if it's limited or not. The only way to list a possibly limited ability is via saying Possibly Limited, no?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
So, Tatsuki not having her soul sucked out would just be an inherent resistance for Tatsuki. The databook states A) it is simply an AoE soul inhalation technique and that weaker souls taste worse than stronger souls, and B) it indiscriminately inhales souls in an AoE. These databook statements imply a couple things: first it mentions that the weaker the soul, the poorer the taste, this inherently means that it is possible to inhale strong souls, as the very mention of a taste gradient correlated to soul power objectively means stronger better tasting souls can be affected by Gonzui. Second, the databook states the technique is indiscriminate, meaning it doesn't simply target weak souls, it targets all souls, and in combination with the prior statement, it proves it can suck out strong souls. As far as Yammy calling Tatsuki strong, that is just in reference to her still being alive, and doesn't inherently mean Gonzui only works on weak souls, in fact the databooks go directly against that notion as shown above. Nothing in that scene objectively proves that Tatsuki survived cuz she had a strong soul in the sense of high AP, this would just be a case of Tatsuki having resistance to soul manipulation as the databooks make it clear that Gonzui indiscriminately inhales souls and can inhale strong souls.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't put much stock in a databook when Yammy clearly says "if your soul wasn't sucked out by my Gonzui, then it must be stronger than I thought". There are literally no two ways about interpreting it. Yammy states a fact and then tells us the reason. As it stands, the databooks usage of the word "indiscriminately" is in direct contradiction since there is discrimination on the basis of soul strength.

Arc7Kuroi said:
Aizen's EE aura is within ~an elbow's distance from his body, Kanonji was clear far from an elbows distance from Aizen. So, this has nothing to do with EE at all, Aizen is congratulating Don for withstanding his passive reiatsu crush, which he states later in the arc that he had intentionally lowered his power so even humans like Tatsuki could sense it. Not only is this not relevant to Aizen's EE aura, as Don isn't in the EE aura, this scene isn't even referencing his able to erase souls from existence.
Click to expand...
Did you link the right scan because I don't see a mention of "elbow's distance" there? Or maybe my eyes are having a bad day. But I think the following statement seems to imply that his EE is directly linked to his spiritual pressure, it's the same aura.
"Such gross carelessness. These restraints do not eliminate my spiritual pressure. They only keep it near me. I don't have to tell you what will happen if you try to touch me."
 
Damn, I've been Ninja'd by AKM while in the middle of writing my response to Arc's points. I'll still post in a bit tho.
 
Warning: I know effectively nothing about Bleach, but I have read this thread and the OP of the last one.

I initially had a massive post agreeing with the OP, but Damage's post about Yammy and Don convinced me otherwise. As AKM said, it's explicitly said that Tatsuki had a strong soul.

The important part about the Don scan is that he can temporarily withstand Aizen's other abilities without being strong enough to power null them. This demonstrates that other parts of his aura can be withstood by simply being a little strong without being strong enough to power null.

Since EE only had a valid path to a resistance due to the argument that people could only resist it through a special resistance rather than strength, as they're not strong enough to outright power null it, this argues against it; Aizen's other similar abilities were able to be withstood without a special resistance and without being far stronger.

Does that make sense?
 
So, Tatsuki not having her soul sucked out would just be an inherent resistance for Tatsuki. The databook states A) it is simply an AoE soul inhalation technique and that weaker souls taste worse than stronger souls, and B) it indiscriminately inhales souls in an AoE. These databook statements imply a couple things: first it mentions that the weaker the soul, the poorer the taste, this inherently means that it is possible to inhale strong souls, as the very mention of a taste gradient correlated to soul power objectively means stronger better tasting souls can be affected by Gonzui. Second, the databook states the technique is indiscriminate, meaning it doesn't simply target weak souls, it targets all souls, and in combination with the prior statement, it proves it can suck out strong souls. As far as Yammy calling Tatsuki strong, that is just in reference to her still being alive, and doesn't inherently mean Gonzui only works on weak souls, in fact the databooks go directly against that notion as shown above. Nothing in that scene objectively proves that Tatsuki survived cuz she had a strong soul in the sense of high AP, this would just be a case of Tatsuki having resistance to soul manipulation as the databooks make it clear that Gonzui indiscriminately inhales souls and can inhale strong souls.
Click to expand...

The "indiscriminate" part seemingly refers to just how Gonzui targets victims (which is to say, Yammy doesn't target it at all but just uses it on everyone nearby). That means that Tatsuki was targeted by it, just like everyone else, but the only reason why she didn't have her soul sucked out was because her soul was strong enough as Yammy himself says.

We have a direct statement on it from Yammy, so that is good enough for me.

Aizen's EE aura is within ~an elbow's distance from his body, Kanonji was clear far from an elbows distance from Aizen. So, this has nothing to do with EE at all, Aizen is congratulating Don for withstanding his passive reiatsu crush, which he states later in the arc that he had intentionally lowered his power so even humans like Tatsuki could sense it. Not only is this not relevant to Aizen's EE aura, as Don isn't in the EE aura, this scene isn't even referencing his able to erase souls from existence.
Click to expand...

AKM already provided the scan up above, but Aizen's EE is connect to his Reiatsu. It isn't a completely different ability that he developed solely out of a connection to the Hogyoku. There is nothing indicating that this is the case.

Why mention humans? Because in the context of both of those two instances Aizen was interacting with humans. Aizen's statement is esoteric in this instance. There is no logical reason for Aizen to erase a human and say "I can erase Hollows", that would be entirely random and nonsensical in context, as Aizen is only interacting with humans here. This premise gets debunked in the TYBW, when we see Aizen erase a Shinigami, and both Aizen and Shunsui silently affirm that Aizen could even erase Shunsui if he got too close. In the instance with Shunsui, Aizen directly refers to Shunsui, "I don't need to remind you what will happen if you get close", since the context is revolving around Shunsui, he only refers to Shunsui. Aizen doesn't look at Shunsui and go, "I can erase Hollows", just in the same way that he isn't going to say that after he got done erasing humans. This is an argument from ignorance and in no way proves Aizen can only erase humans. Absolute worst case scenario for me, this argument is entirely negged by equal interpretation, as I can simply claim he only mentioned humans in that scene because he had just erased humans, but as I proved earlier, his EE works on more than just humans, so this premise is objectively wrong as well.
Click to expand...

In the "I don't need to remind you what will happen if you get close" line, I think he's speaking generally not specifically just to Shunsui. Aizen saying Shunsui's name is the beginning of a new stence that carries on to the next page.

But the argument was never "Aizen's EE is restricted exclusively to humans". That wouldn't make a lot of sense and it is already acknowledged that Aizen partially erased a random Shinigami during the War arc.

As I mentioned above, Aizen's EE range is within roughly an elbow's distance from his body, and Gin never gets that close to Aizen. The only instance he does get within that range is when his poison has already deteriorated by Gin's poison as a hole immediately opens in Aizen. Considering your body stops producing spirit energy if your soul's heart is stopped, Aizen's abilities and powers would halt after having his heart rotted away by Gin's poison. However, even if you want to ignore that, Aizen objectively states that he wanted to let Gin betray him out of morbid curiosity, so it is entirely realistic that Aizen simply let Gin touch him and opted not to exude his EE aura, as Bleach characters can restrict their own abilities and power. Then when Aizen finally does lash out in rage and fear of death, he does erase part of Gin before Gin is able to escape, as you concede to. The only reason Gin isn't entirely erased is because he leaps away before Aizen can fully lash out. So, not only does Gin not withstand Aizen's EE as you concede to, but he's never in the aura (he leaps away before Aizen can fully lash out) in the first place. Gin isn't an anti-feat, he's actually consistent with Aizen's EE aura being indiscriminate.
Click to expand...

I'll concede that this part is possible, if not definitive. The fact that Gin was erased as little as he was could be because of his higher spiritual energy compared to ordinary humans, or it could be because Aizen was holding back.
 
Agnaa said:
Does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Yes, I share the same thought, though you put it differently.

Damage3245 said:
The "indiscriminate" part seemingly refers to just how Gonzui targets victims (which is to say, Yammy doesn't target it at all but just uses it on everyone nearby).
Click to expand...
True. The indiscriminate part doesn't need to be a contradiction since it technically targets all souls without any discrimination within an area, just that the stronger souls aren't affected by it.

Damage3245 said:
AKM already provided the scan up above, but Aizen's EE is connect to his Reiatsu. It isn't a completely different ability that he developed solely out of a connection to the Hogyoku. There is nothing indicating that this is the case.
Click to expand...
I'd say even if it were a completely different ability specific to Aizen for some reason, it still works under the limitations of his spiritual pressure. Aizen basically said that you cannot completely confine my spiritual pressure so if you come close you will get erased. Which means, this EE is tied to his spiritual pressure and works as a result of the same aura.

I will however agree with the OP on the removal of the chair argument.
 
Axxtentacle said:
He has EE no matter the decision. We're deciding on if it's limited or not. The only way to list a possibly limited ability is via saying Possibly Limited, no?
Click to expand...
But his EE only works with beings who don't sense spiritual pressure, tho?
 
Dread said:
Where did he use EE on beings higher than his own spiritual pressure?
Click to expand...
This is one of the points in question, ichigo and yhwach must have resistance to EE. Because both interacted with Aizen and their spiritual strength is >=
 
Dread said:
Where did he use EE on beings higher than his own spiritual pressure?
Click to expand...
This is an argument from ignorance (you can google this fallacy if you’re interested), it’s the same vein of argumentation as “when does Naruto destroy a planet” that people like to use as opponents of planetary Naruto. The point of this thread is to argue whether or not the way Aizen describes his ability means it only works on weaker people or not. Can’t go into further detail because I’m on my phone, but you can follow my argumentation when I respond to AKM, Agna, and Damage.
 
Arc7 is correct on this. The opposition isn't based exclusively on "Well, Aizen didn't use it against anyone stronger than him."
 
Malekith said:
This is one of the points in question, ichigo and yhwach must have resistance to EE. Because both interacted with Aizen and their spiritual strength is >=
Click to expand...
No, actually, this is false. You need proof of their resistance. Why do you think EE works on higher spiritual pressure? Don't you remember what Aizen said before?
If someone is weaker than him and can't sense the spiritual pressure, the body won't withdraw from this. He literally said “weaker than him”. It is never said everyone in his range won't withdraw under his enormous spirtual pressure.
Damage3245 said:
Arc7 is correct on this. The opposition isn't based exclusively on "Well, Aizen didn't use it against anyone stronger than him."
Click to expand...
No, why is everyone ignoring the fact that Aizen himself said “only weaker than him or the being that can't withdraw his spiritual pressure”?
He explicitly said “weaker than him”. He was well aware that being higher than him won't even affect him.
 
Dread said:
No, why is everyone ignoring the fact that Aizen himself said “only weaker than him or the being that can't withdraw his spiritual pressure”?
He explicitly said “weaker than him”. He was well aware that being higher than him won't even affect him.
Click to expand...
Because he didn’t lol that’s why there’s an entire debate to begin with. One side believes that Aizen can only use it on weaker beings based on x y and z, the other side doesn’t think that’s the case based on a b and c. If there was a clear cut objective statement we wouldn’t have this debate 💀 this topic contains a lot of subjectivity
 
Dread said:
No, why is everyone ignoring the fact that Aizen himself said “only weaker than him or the being that can't withdraw his spiritual pressure”?
He explicitly said “weaker than him”. He was well aware that being higher than him won't even affect him.
Click to expand...
I don't think there is a statement that specifically states that Aizen's EE does not work on stronger beings (although how it is shown to be working on several occasions does suggest that). You can link to any scans you may be remembering and we can check it out.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
We take statements claiming to erase the existence of stuff as existence erasure yes.
Click to expand...
* We take multiple instances of Aizen being shown to erase things along with a statement that things stop existing in his aura as EE yes
 
BOEGVELD said:
That's not what he said.
Click to expand...
DVk7Br9.jpg


"Any human who comes in contact with me will cease to exist"
Falls directly under the Existence Erasure definition on the wiki.
Click to expand...

Isn't Existence Erasure 4head.
Click to expand...

🗿
 
Yeah, this isn't the thread to debate about whether or not Aizen has existence erasure in the first place.
 
Dread said:
Multiple instances? The scan you have shown was once. Where is others?
Click to expand...
Chapters 411-416 ish he erases humans, a bottle, and Kanonji’s staff. Chapter 618ish he erases the hands of a Shinigami. They’ve all been sent in this very thread
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Chapters 411-416 ish he erases humans, a bottle, and Kanonji’s staff. Chapter 618ish he erases the hands of a Shinigami. They’ve all been sent in this very thread
Click to expand...
There are only 3 links, two links are the same, and one link has nothing to do with EE. Mind rechecking your links.
 
Dread said:
There are only 3 links, two links are the same, and one link has nothing to do with EE. Mind rechecking your links.
Click to expand...
I gave you the chapters bruh go read them yourself. Every EE scan has been linked in this thread, you’ve been following this thread, if you don’t remember them that’s your fault. I’m not sending the same scan repetitively every time someone skims a thread instead of thoroughly reading it.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I gave you the chapters bruh go read them yourself. Every EE scan has been linked in this thread, you’ve been following this thread, if you don’t remember them that’s your fault. I’m not sending the same scan repetitively every time someone skims a thread instead of thoroughly reading it.
Click to expand...
Alright, let me rephrase my words but before that, one thing should be noted, your aggressiveness should be reduced in posts. And now to my points,
I said you have 3 links in the OP thread. Two links are one instance, and the other has nothing to do with EE. Also, it is your thread, you should give scans to the public. In the second point, it has been clearly shown that humans are different from Quincy and other races, so him erasing them is literal proof of EE only works on them due to the fact that they can't sense his spirtual pressure. He can't affect beings being stronger than himself (this has been shown in the entire show).
 
Dread said:
Alright, let me rephrase my words but before that, one thing should be noted, your aggressiveness should be reduced in posts. And now to my points,
I said you have 3 links in the OP thread. Two links are one instance, and the other has nothing to do with EE. Also, it is your thread, you should give scans to the public. In the second point, it has been clearly shown that humans are different from Quincy and other races, so him erasing them is literal proof of EE only works on them due to the fact that they can't sense his spirtual pressure. He can't affect beings being stronger than himself (this has been shown in the entire show).
Click to expand...
I’m not being agressive. I don’t have any links in the OP, I didn’t make this thread, Arcker did. Furthermore there are more links in this thread than just what is in the OP.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
I’m not being agressive. I don’t have any links in the OP, I didn’t make this thread, Arcker did. Furthermore there are more links in this thread than just what is in the OP.
Click to expand...
Oh mb, this is hella confusion since yall have same pfp and nearly same name
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Possible Damage Transferral for Ichigo
Replies
22
Views
2K
Spilxson2
ReaperAndBlues
Was Unohana Right? Let's Find Out. (GRACE)
Replies
32
Views
3K
ReaperAndBlues
ReaperAndBlues
ReaperAndBlues
  • Locked
Simple Additions For Pre-timeskip and Post-timeskip Ichigo
Replies
18
Views
2K
ReaperAndBlues
ReaperAndBlues
Apollonir.Scale
Bleach Soul Crush
Replies
8
Views
2K
CodeCCLL
CodeCCLL
DavidTPPM
About Aizens existence erasure
2
Replies
60
Views
4K
Arcker123
Arcker123
Back
Top